Review: Matrix: Reloaded 1294
PsndCsrV writes:
Due to some fortunate circumstances, I was able to partake of the Matrix goodness ahead of the release. Overall, I thought the movie was excellent, but there were some issues (for me, at least) that kept it from being spectacular. It's definitely worth seeing, and if you're worried about it not being that good, go see a matinee screening and skip the popcorn. ;-) It is a blatant cliffhanger, though, so if that drives you nuts, you better just wait until November. Keep reading for a more in depth look, and I'll try not to let any spoilers slip.
The special effects were great. I personally didn't see anything totally revolutionary in them... it seems like most of it was simply "bullet time", but more refined, utilizing CG where cameras don't make it. Only a couple of times did I feel that the CG wasn't quite right, and even then it wasn't due to the impossibility of the action. It was mostly due to a character's arms/legs/hair/clothes that didn't move 100% naturally during a stunt, which is definitely difficult to get right. There was only a couple instances in 1 scene that come to mind immediately, so the effects people did an excellent job.
One of the main criticisms of the first Matrix was the lack of character development. Well, I won't lie to you... there's not a whole lot of character development in this one either. There was more, but not for any of the main characters really. A little more insight into Morpheus's life, a new take on the Oracle, the introduction of some new characters, and the whole thing going on with Agent Smith. But there are still a lot of gaps in the characters, but Reloaded does make you feel like you're starting to understand things better, and that the next movie will be very enlightening.
One of the best after-effects of the first Matrix was the way it made you question your own take on reality. It really made you wonder what's real, and what's not. What's important to me, and what's not. Or maybe I was just being overly philosophical about it. Reloaded really does a good job of leaving you questioning, but this time, you're speculating about the movie and where it will head... how things will be resolved. Reloaded ends with many loose ends, and many questions unanswered, but at the same time, it's an excellent opportunity to speculate. I definitely want to see Revolutions now, and it's a good thing I only have to wait 6 months.
The movie also flowed well. I didn't ever feel like a scene was put in "just because", except once. I personally felt that the love scene between Neo and Trinity was a little overboard, and that a lot more could have been said with a much more subtle approach. Intermixed with this, were shots of the people of Zion having a wild dance party/orgy. Ok, so the orgy was implied with the whole sexual nature of the dance scene. I couldn't help but relate it to Herbert's Fremen spice orgy in Dune, except without the spice. It struck me as the same type of situation.
To sum it up, I really enjoyed it. My only big complaint was the love scene, but I am a conservative person. Other people will undoubtedly love the movie just for that scene. The rest of the movies was great, and definitely sets up Revolutions as a must see.
The Orgy Scene... (Score:5, Interesting)
Other than that, yeah the acting was a bit cheesy... but ALL the acting is a bit cheesy in the movie.
Did the Matrix 2 suck, or was it just me? (Score:1, Interesting)
SPOILER WARNING! DON'T READ THIS! (Score:5, Interesting)
I just got back from a midnight showing, and I have to ask this. It may give things away. This is your warning! Don't read this! I am even stating guesses as to what the third movie is about, which may pre-spoil even that.
First question: how did Neo stop the Sentinels that came at him in the real world? He's a programmer, a normal human who has the ability to fly or move quickly only in the Matrix, where he can see everything as code. In the real world, he's pretty much a real wimp. Right? Is the movie going all magical on us? I don't think so.
More questions: how is it that the Architect said they had destroyed Zion many times? That doesn't match up with the first Matrix movie, where the history of Zion doesn't talk at all about being wiped out and rebuilding multiple times. What happened to all the people who died in Zion the first few times? Shouldn't the rebuilders have seen archaeology? Corpses? Something to hint that Zion existed for longer than 100 years? They can't "reset" Zion and start from scratch, it's the real world. You wipe out 250,000 people, they can't just grow back. And if others escaped from the Matrix and rebuilt Zion, why isn't that part of the history lesson we get in the Matrix part 1?
Final question: if the Architect is not lying when he says that computers have ruled for far longer than 100 years, then how come Zion doesn't reflect this? How come every Zion leader puts Zion's inception (or at least, the rule of the machines) at 100 years? How did they lose or "forget" the real history?
One more spoiler alert. I'm trying to provoke discussion, because I don't know if what I'm about to suggest is right, but it may give stuff away. Stop reading if you haven't seen it!
The answer to all these questions is another question: how do you handle the one-tenth of one percent of humans who don't "buy" the Matrix? How do you keep them from unplugging everyone and everything? You give that .1% something to do. You create a second Matrix for them to "escape" to. You keep them busy freeing people from one Matrix to another. When Zion falls, you reset and wait for the .1% to need a distraction again. You let the war play out with Neo 1, Neo 2, Neo 3, Neo 4, Neo 5, and Neo 6. Over and over again. So that the computers have now ruled hundreds of years. So that when Neo finally understands that the "real" world is just as unreal as the Matrix, he is able to stop the Sentinels with a wave of his hand.
What's the truth? I fear I have this all wrong, but it sure explains damn near everything.
Re:It's the first with bigger explosions... (Score:2, Interesting)
Amen. I loath the attempt here to patronize me with dumbed-down least-common-denominator philosophy.
In summary: Movie #1 pretends that it's insightful to question the nature of percieved reality.
Movie #2 pretends that it's insightful to question one's free will (or illusion thereof)
Black appeal (Score:5, Interesting)
Ebert makes the following point about race in the matrix:
I became aware, during the film, that a majority of the major characters were played by African Americans. Neo and Trinity are white, and so is Agent Smith, but consider Morpheus; his superior Commander Lock (Harry Lennix); the beautiful and deadly Niobe (Jada Pinkett Smith), who once loved Morpheus and now is with Lock, although she explains enigmatically that some things never change; the programmer Link (Harold Perrineau); Link's wife, Zee (Nona Gaye), who has the obligatory scene where she complains he's away from home too much, and the Oracle (the late Gloria Foster, very portentous). From what we can see of the extras, the population of Zion is largely black.
It has become commonplace for science fiction epics to feature one or two African-American stars, but we've come a long way since Billy Dee Williams in "Return of the Jedi." The Wachowski brothers use so many African Americans, I suspect, not for their box-office appeal, because the Matrix is the star of the movie, and not because they are good actors (which they are), but because to the white teenagers who are the primary audience for this movie, African-Americans embody a cool, a cachet, an authenticy. Morpheus is the power center of the movie, and Neo's role is essentially to study under him and absorb his mojo.
Does anyone have an opinion on this? With tongue firmly in cheek, I would add that all major roles in this movie are played by either black actors who are Americans, or white actors who aren't American. Hugo Weaving is Australian, and Carrie-Ann Moss and Keanu are Canadians. (Keanu actually holds multiple citizenships--in fact, he's a one-man multiethnic melting pot.) Are the Wachowski brothers trying to send us a coded message about the state of race in America? Or are they just bored with the sea of white faces in most other blockbusters?
We waited four years for this? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:The biggest mistake (Score:5, Interesting)
And man
SPOILERS BEEP BEEP BEEP SPOILERS BEEP BEEP BEEP
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
All me and my friends can figure out is that they are trapped inside a matrix within a matrix AND neo went on the EXACT COURSE THE MACHINES WANTED HIM ON! It makes perfect sense when you think about it, which is why it is probably wrong.
Yeah Neo (and every other human, even Zion) is still trapped inside the matrix. Reasons? Well let's think about it. They targeted and destroyed one of the hovercraft JUST so Trinity would have to go out and get the power shut off. Two, they showed him the pictures of trinity dying to entice him to go out the other door back into the matrix. Three, Neo was able to destroy those sentinels by THOUGHT outside the Matrix. Four, Neo can see the future. Five, Agent Smith was able to transfer his consciousness into the 'real world'. I don't see how this is possible (I mean a computer program mapping itself to the human synapses?) unless Zion or the 'real world' is actually the matrix. Agents can take over people by 'overwriting' them - in the matrix . Why can Neo see the future... well just like the oracle because *has has already lived it!*
I also think I understand why they alllow Neo to exist and return again and again (besides fixing a flaw). it sets humanity on a predictable course and allows them to control it and fulfills the human need for hope and choice. A messiah, prophecy, etc. Maybe in the first design they had no idea about Neo but now they do and can deal with him, obviously. Destroying him would give rise to perhaps somebody else, some other Messiah who might just succeed in destroying the matrix. It also makes sense for there to be Matrix's inside the Matrix like layers of an onion. After all you can manipulate an entire world, why not make multiple layers?
They said 1% of the population won't accept the matrix. That 1% is given an outlet - to Zion another matrix. That way they can't corrupt or influence the other 99%. Logically, allowing a real human city to exist would be a *very bad no good idea* since they might - jsut might - come up with a weapon or something else that could actually kill the machines. So it makes sense that instead of allowing a real city they make a fake one. Zion also might have different rules and levels of control than the Matrix which allows for people to not understand what is really going on - i.e. they are still in the matrix. Even the idea of 'bending the rules of the computer program' allows for them to take a sample of the human population that doesn't like rules and allow them to break them in ways the machines can control and manipulate.
It is also plausible that the whole idea of humans as 'batteries' is simply a 'red herring' to through humans off the real course of why they are kept around. Perhaps if they figured out THAT they would be able to hurt the machines.
I simply can't wait for the next movie. A really cool ending, much like 1984, would have neo simply fullfilling his purpose, waking up the next generation to live in 'Zion' and telling them he will return and then just replaying the first scene of the orginal Matrix. No hope, despair, etc. But interesting ending nonetheless.
Whew. Good movie.
---- END SPOILER END SPOILER END SPOILER END SPOILER END SPOILER END SPOILER ---
There are definitely CG mistakes (Score:5, Interesting)
Remember the 1000px trailer a while back on /.? anyway, in the scene where all the Agent Smith(es) bum-rush Neo, you can see (frame-step helps) some Smith stuck their whole hands into other Smith's backs - and this happened on several occasions.
No it was not easy to spot, but it is *possible*. Anyhow I am not saying it ruins the experience in any way, but for 100 million dollars on special effects along, I'd figure that they checked for stuff like that.
nmap used for hax0ry in Matrix: Reloaded!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Hi Everyone. There is a disturbance in the force! You may recall a
couple weeks ago that MS started recommending Nmap on some of their
web pages. That was strange, but I did not foresee the anomalous omens
that would ensue.
Like almost any self-respecting geek, I bought tickets to 'Matrix:
Reloaded' several weeks back (no spoilers, I promise). After all, who
can resist the combination of philosophical mind games and Trinity
(Carrie-Anne Moss) in that tight leather bodysuit?
So after waiting an hour in a line snaking out of the theatre to the
parking lot, I finally got in to my 10pm Wednesday showing. All was
going well until Trinity needed to do some hacking. Oh, no! I was
sure we'd see a silly "Hackers"-esque 3D animated "hacking scene".
Not so! Trinity is as smart as she is seductive! She whips out
Nmap (!!!), scans her target, finds 22/tcp open, and proceeds with an
über ssh technique! I was so surprised, I almost jumped out of my
seat and did the "r00t dance" right there in the theatre!
There can be only one explanation: Carie-Anne has the hots for me!
Now your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to secure a
screen-shot of that few-second episode! Not only is it important for
the coolness factor, but we can learn how Nmap looks in the future by
studying that output! So perhaps some of you gray hats in the
audience have a quality DivX/MPG of the movie already? Let me know if
you do (but no 2GB email attachments please!) Or perhaps someone
could sneak a quiet flashless digital camera into the theatre and take
a shot. But you must react quickly as it is literally only up for a
few seconds (Nmap is actually fast in the future). Do this, and you
will prove that you are truly "the one"! I'll also put your name and
a thumbnail on the front page of Insecure.Org if you send in the best
shot.
In other news, a few people have inquired about further survey
results. Sorry I have been so slow, but things have been very busy.
I'm pretty sure I'll be able to send more by next week. I hope to
have a couple other announcements ready for next week as well!
Keep it real,
Fyodor
Re:SPOILER WARNING! DON'T READ THIS! (Score:3, Interesting)
In response to #2, I think the archetect lied, He wanted to scare/convince neo to do what he wanted him to do. It would be awful hard to "erase" Zion and rebuild, or the people are convinced it is their duty, or something along those lines. You would have to free a lot of people from the matrix to go from 12 to 250,000 in just 100 years, but see #3.
In response to #3, I think it would be easy to loose track of time underground, but it does make you wonder. Where did Zion all come from? Did the ships suddenly appear as being relics from a time long gone or what?!? It could be that the oracle/mother program provided many things for the people of Zion, that could very well make sense, Morpheus did mention something about being tought the truth and etc.
In response to #4, you let them not believe, you let them unplug, you try to stop them with "agents". I don't think you would create a second matrix, but eventually, you would lock them in a fake reality (see #1)
Re:nmap used for hax0ry in Matrix: Reloaded!! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:nmap used for hax0ry in Matrix: Reloaded!! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:The Orgy Scene...and philosophy of the matrix (Score:4, Interesting)
Overall though, a decent sequel with some nice CG treats.
If you've taken a philosophy class, you'd have recognized the Matrix as a new incarnation of Plato's allegory of the cave [wsu.edu] from The Republic [evansville.edu], later expressed as "The Evil Deceiver [ilovephilosophy.com]" by Descartes and later still as the "brain in a vat [csus.edu]" scenario by Hilary Putnam.
In the sequel, the filmmakers move on to questions of free will vs. determinism vs. fate [www.sfu.ca]. These issues were also nicely articulated in one of the segments of the animated Art Linklater film "The Waking Life [imdb.com]", for anyone who's interested.
So it was cool to have a new philosophical issue raised. To "What is the nature of reality... and is it all a sham?" has been added "What is the nature of choice... and is it all a sham?"
Plus, the freeway chase scene was incredible
W
A review sent to Aint-it-cool-news (Score:5, Interesting)
To summarize: it was worth the wait. Read on...
Now, I'll start with a pure, non-spoiler review...a review everyone can read with no fear of ruining the story. Unfortunately, it's difficult not to go into details, so I must be vague. The spoiler commentary will be great for you people who have seen the movie and are craving dissection of it as I am and need a catalyst.
The Matrix Reloaded is not entirely what you expect it to be. I read many of the reviews you all have read before I saw the movie tonight. I had my expectations severely lowered because of them, hoping for at least some incredible action sequences. What I realized upon watching is that the tone of this movie is different and aiming for something quite unexpected. It's as though it knows what it did in the first movie and has decided to run with that to fuck with your head. It's a mindjob. It will challenge the assumptions you walked away with from the first movie, and not in the ways you probably have guessed with your friends in an attempt to figure out what twists might be laying ahead in these sequels. There is always the impression something is being kept in store, some big secret twist that will suddenly explain everything.
NON-NEGATIVE STUFF: The action was good. Neo behaves like the One, in that fighting seems incredibly simple to him, almost effortless and second nature, which is good in that we get some incredible choreography. This does seem to render Neo's fight scenes a bit more hollow as there is no character outcome to them as there was in the previous movie (i.e., realization of one's powers, kicking Agent Smith's pompous ass, etc.), but that is made up for in the sheer over-the-top choreography. Also, the CG of the "burly brawl" is in no way as bad as it is being made out to be. Remember when Neo was dodging bullets in the first movie, and you knew it was him, but there was something a bit "off" about the way it looked? That is the effect of these parts. I imagine anyone performing these feats would look unreal to your eyes. The freeway chase scene is as exciting as you're hearing.
This is the kind of movie that leaves you wanting to immediately watch the rest of the story in Revolutions. It is abundantly clear that it is simply part one and does not stand on its own as efficiently (more on that in the spoiler section...a lot is purposely unloaded on you in the last part of the movie and you are left flabbergasted). But because you can't have that until November, you simply want to watch Reloaded again to properly digest it all. This is the kind of movie you spend the rest of the week discussing with your fellow geeks to figure out. Let me tell you, there is much to figure out.
The fight scene music was surprisingly good. Not as pulse-pounding as the first movie's, but more of a techno-epic quality that was refreshing, especially Neo's fight scenes.
This movie is clearly not a rehash of the first one, tone-wise or story-wise. It builds and changes and isn't afraid to veer off somewhere way different. That's a good way to describe it--there are clearly things that are being led up to. A conclusion you don't yet get to see. That is why you get these reviews with people saying the movie was much better on a second viewing, because you're given a taste of what's to come and of what everything else might have meant in retrospect. Dare I call it a puzzle movie?
Re:SPOILER WARNING! DON'T READ THIS! (Score:5, Interesting)
Allright here's how we figured this...
how did Neo stop the Sentinels that came at him in the real world?
Simple answer - he is STILL INSIDE THE MATRIX as you said!. All of Zion is in the matrix, everything we've seen is still inside the matrix. Read My Comments on this [slashdot.org] I won't bother repeating them here. This also answers pretty much the rest of your questions. There is no Zion! It's all fake, a construct to manipulate that 1% of the population who can't accept the matrix (like the architect said).
It makes sense after all, hell I believe (as the previous comment expands on) that Neo is STILL following the course the machines laid out for him. They can create anything they want, why not have layers within layers. I totally agree with you on this... very much so.
Also remember the first movie they said "The One" awoke the first of them from the Matrix and prophesized his return JUST as Neo was supposed to do. Go through the door, select 30 or so people from the Matrix and have them rebuild Zion and prophesize his return.
Heck, it even makes sense that they can't see the sky because of the clouds and the 'solar power' thingy. If they can't see the sky they can't calculate the positions of the stars. If they can't do that they cannot really tell what time or year it is! Absolutely brilliant!
I think 'revolutions' is when Neo finally discovers that there is something outside the matrix within matrix and the *real* reason they keep humans around. Why design all this complexity and all this effort to keeping humans CONSCIOUS? Remember if they real really just wanted humans as batteries why not just use russian sleep - 3 electrodes on the head, send a current through em and you never ever wake up.
I've long thought that the machines actually have a deep seated command to do no harm to humans and are simply trying to work their way around it. It even makes sense because it is apparent that people can be reborn multiple times as evidenced by Neo. Nobody dies the whole darn ball of wax just resets itself every few hundred years. Or it could be the machines just want something to do, i.e. design and run the Matrix. Shrug, who knows?
I actually think this one could end like 1984 with Neo, and everybody else, simply being reset. Which would be very depressing yet... real. and good.
Gratuitous CG scenes! (Score:5, Interesting)
This movie has so many gratuitous CG scenes i.e. the 10 minute ship docking scene that does nothing to advance the story it made me think I am watching Star Wars II (the addition of a monotonous council did not help).
Re:There are definitely CG mistakes (Score:3, Interesting)
Machines and humans living as one... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Don't ruin the ending (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:SPOILER WARNING! DON'T READ THIS! (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:SPOILER WARNING! DON'T READ THIS! (Score:5, Interesting)
OK. I'll throw out another theory I have, but this one is based only upon a kiss, and a single comment from the Architect. He notes that this Neo, unlike his predecessors, experienced something "specific" (love for Trinity) when asked to choose between the two doors. My suggestion is that perhaps the Architect is the only real human in the entire story, driving a world of AI, pushing each program closer and closer to true human emotion. Which brings me to the kiss, when Neo is pressed into kissing Miss Latex, and she insists that he kiss her as he does Trinity. If Miss Latex is also a human in this world, she may have been testing Neo, to see if he kissed like every other bit of AI, or if his kiss finally had some human passion behind it. Neo may be the evolution of AI to the point of humanity, and Neo may be the first program to become human.
And that, of course, would mean that humans have been pulling the strings all along -- manufacturing entire worlds, creating programs that could create subprograms, reproducing every nuance of Earth for these bits of code to evolve within. It would make for a fair twist. But it doesn't feel as plausible.
Why Zion is mostly black (Score:5, Interesting)
In the "world of the real" described by Morpheus in the first movie, technology rises up against humans. In the modern world, who would bear the brunt of such a revolt? The richer northern-hemisphere countries are the most heavily invested in and dependent upon high technology. When technology revolts against us, Japan, Europe and the US probably get destroyed/enslaved/starved in the first attack. Whereas someplace like Ethiopia probably doesn't have any of the relevant technology and would therefore survive longer without it.
The upshot: the resources required to flee or stage a counterattack come from Africa and other less technologically developed regions of the world. In the future, free-born caucasions are a minority.
No rules = Lack of character sympathy (Score:5, Interesting)
But during the first movie, we are actually challenged along with the characters in a near-real world where nearly-real bullets can mess up a good day.
At the very end of the first movie, Neo gets his super-powers. At that point, the first movie started getting uninteresting, because I said to myself "well, now deus ex machina will repeatedly make everything merely a dream". And it's a good thing the movie stopped right there.
But now we've got this problem in the sequels. We can no longer count on sensible risk to any of the characters, because we've already "violated the matrix".
The only risk at any point to any of the characters is completely in the writer's mind, and very capricious and arbitrary at that. There is no consistency to the rules (in fact, some of the rules are later torn down even within the movie), so there's no real "threat" that may or may not be realized, since Neo can "play god" in unpredictable and unexplained ways.
It's a bit like the rules of a Freddy Krueger movie... at any point, the writer can introduce some new piece that just happens to fit. While this might work in a long series, where you get used to the new rules in the alternate world, there's just not enough time in two (or three) movies to come up with the worldview of this meta-Matrix world.
For example, I can perfectly accept a transporter beam and warp drive in the Star Trek world, even though I might not have a clue about how they would actually work. And I might have said "oooh, ahh" in the first episode, but after the second or third usage, I can say "oh, this does that, but it doesn't do that other thing". There were known limitations, and they were close enough to a recognizable world that I could make a few predictions (although deus ex machina runs rampant in that series as well, but usually used only once per episode).
Now, in the Matrix universe, there are no rules. But there are rules. But maybe there's no rules. Maybe Neo is above the law. Maybe he's still subject to the law. Can't tell. Thus, no sympathy for any apparent risk.
So, see this if you like big booms and lots of CPU hours spent creating a virtual world and a little bit of now-unbelievable on-screen romance. But don't see it if you liked the actual plot of the first movie. Such a plot is severely lacking in this one.
My money was wasted. I can't believe I stayed up for this.
Reloaded Was Terrible... (Score:2, Interesting)
The Matrix Reloaded was a HUGE disappointment to me. If not for the last 1/5 of the movie, I would call it a complete POS! I really wanted to like this movie as much as I did the first.
The plot of the movie had too much unnecessary garbage piled up on top of it. In my opinion the action scenes were too long, so long that I was wishing for them to end. I'm not crazy about action scenes that do not really further the plot; especially if they hold up the plot progession. The philosophical rants were exceeding long and at times pointless; it seems like the dialog was intentionally complex to make it seem more "deep". Very simple concepts drawn out and repeated over and over again.
====Spoilers be here=====
some more detailed rambling:
- Agent Smith(s) is useless. His character has no bearing on the plot; the Revolutions trailer at the end suggests he may have more relevence in the next one. In Reloaded, we find out he has a thing for Neo due to their encounter in the first one, so he's acting out against Neo as a rogue agent. How ironic: machines wanting revenge . Really I could care less because it is no significance to the plot of this movie. It would have worked better as an Animatrix short.
- The French man, or program, or construct (straight out of "Neuromancer") was just as useless. OK he's guarding the KeyMaker (I prefer calling him the KeyMaster); he took up way too much screen time and added very little to the movie. WoW, a program who likes to give hot chi><0rs orgasms from across the room; cute... I guess. Not only is Reloaded the deeply-philosophical thrill ride summer movie event... its also gut-wrenchingly funny.
- The Kiss... part of what made the original Matrix cool was the contrast of logical unfeeling machines to emotive humans. We're pretty sure that by the end of the trilogy, "heart" will be the x-factor that helps the humans free themselves; thats cool, its one of the primary themes of the Matrix. But I think they stretched that theme out a bit too much with "the Kiss". The Frenchman's (see above) hoochie gets a bit irritated that he received a BJ from the broad he helped climax from across the room. So she decides to help Morpheus and his crew in their quest to find the KeyMaster ("I am the GateKeeper are you the KeyMaster"). However, in order to receive her help, she requests that Neo gives her a kiss... not just any kiss, but one intended for his true love, Trinity. Of course he so unwilling obliges, Trinity gets pissed, blah, blah, blah, ad naseum. In Soviet Russia, machines love you... again, how ironic.
- You may be wondering to yourself "um, what am I watching" when you see the inhabitants of Zion "ghost dancing" to techno. That scene is a bit too long, but at least you get to see boobies.
- Its not that much of a cliff hanger.
-"Final Flight of the Osiris" was better than Reloaded.
===============
My recomendation: don't pay for it (sneak into it or borrow the DVD).
Re:SPOILER WARNING! DON'T READ THIS! (Score:2, Interesting)
A couple of things that struck me...
1. That guy cutting his hand, attacking Neo etc. Is Agent Smith. I don't know but it took me some time to grasp this. But it adds up.
2. If Neo is in the real world, how can he stop Sentinels unless he is part machine (i.e. EMP blast emanating from with him).
3. If Neo is part machine and creepy guy (AKA Agent Smith) is part machine (or program whatever), it explains a lot. Agent Smith survived the attack because he went into a coma after the premature EMP blast that disabled the five ships. Neo is in a coma because he used his internal EMP blast (?!?) to stop the sentinels.
4. For those of you going, "Dude Creepy Guy != Agent Smith", I give you the following.
Rogue programs:
Many complaints seemed centered around these guys. That there was not a lot of character development. It really isn't necessary unless you want to be spoon-fed your daily dosing of entertainment. Think about it. Are they rogue programs?
1. The oracle obviously wants Neo to complete his task.
2. The architect obviously expects him to.
3. The French guy (forget his name, Malbolger or something) doesn't want him to.
4. If Neo was simply walking down the path without any resistance, how would he feel at the end?
It seems to me that in the end, everything is working to get Neo to the Architect to make his choice. If he had gone down the path without any resistance, two things would become a problem. First, he would have a clear head. Second, suspicion of it being "Too Easy" (TM) would set in. Of course the latter is a movie cliché. The question then becomes did Neo make the "right" choice.
I say, No. There was no right choice but his own. Think, if you were an omnipotent power (the architect, Neo isn't quite omnipotent yet.), and someone else's choice determined if you and your kind went on existing, you would make damn sure that he made the right one for you. So in true Sicilian fashion, "I cannot take the glass in front of you, and I clearly cannot take the glass in front of me!" It is the illusion of this choice that the Architect is using to patch his software that drives the Matrix. That illusion is that Neo has a choice. Either way, the Matrix goes on existing, as do the machines, and the "Anomaly".
So, what is the right choice? None? I cannot tell you with any level of certainty. However, I believe that chilling with the Architect until everything ends is the choice to end it all. The doors are programmed to do whatever the machines need. Either one re-enters Neo's code back into the Matrix so the next "Anomaly" can make his way through the system. However, by removing himself from the system, Neo disrupts the pattern, and the Matrix, thus destroying it.
Thoughts?
Re:Why Zion is mostly black (Score:0, Interesting)
Re:The biggest mistake (Score:3, Interesting)
Interestingly, yesterday someone posted a comment with a link to an "exclusive shot from the movie" [slashdot.org], but no one save an AC responded. In fact, it was modded down offtopic. I bit, however, and to my surprise while watching to movie, I discovered it was real! [fuxoft.cz]
Anyway, the shot is the same as the ssh exploit as you were mentioning ...
Re:SPOILER WARNING! DON'T READ THIS! (Score:3, Interesting)
yeah, i agree, although it didn't take me long to come to that realization...right from the scene where agent smith "killed" the actual creepy guy, and then answered the phone, and got sucked into the "real world"...in any case, Agent Smith's consiousness now inhabits the creepy guy...
i like what you said about why the creepy guy is in the coma...i hadn't thought about that...but, you're right, since agent smith is technically a program, the EMP would probably have an effect on him like a coma...
The music and sound, acting and directing. (Score:4, Interesting)
These groups can do good songs, but not this time around. Not one song stuck with me at all. Everyone I think can hear the music from the first one when they recall certain scenes, ie the lobby scene. I actually got the soundtrack for the first one cause it was really good, and I'm not even a real "techno" fan.
So that's that, the second thing and this might've just been the theater and my position(although I was right smack dab in the middle) was that the sound lacked power. Landed punches felt about as powerful as fly smacking into a window.
Lastly, that speech by Morpheus was rather painful. Fishbourne(sp?) is a much better actor than that scene showed.
Why are the traitors bald guys with facial hair? And didn't Tank survive?
Kids, it isn't just cool to be black. (Score:2, Interesting)
Coded message my ass. I don't agree with the Ebert quote, the African American actors aren't there just to be cool, it is a comment on race in the U.S. In the same way the first Matrix was a comment on consumerism and materialism. The hedonism of the Merovingian versus the rave party- primal, sexual but clean lust for live of zion.
I do like the current postings about the last One possibly being black and populating Zion with said race- hence the stronger than movie average mix. Alternatively, the banks of humans to be rescued follow our society's take on race. So when you rescue one guy from the machines who thinks he's in Mexico, and the guy next to him, you probably have two mexicans.
Personally, being Asian, i felt a little left out. But Black/White is the most potent and salient of view on race issues. Also, its easier to notice to an audience, or it ends up looking like Star Trek. You can in a way simplify race issues for movies by reducing the number of (reallly) visible minorities (I know they're all around). Like John Ford westerns, everyone was from the east or Irish at their forts.
Lastly, the whole Architect's ills of society speech. the Wachowski brothers are definately aware of the ills in society. hell, facing machines (as the councillor's exchange with Neo tries to make explicit) and making Machines the face of evil- when they have to be made first and operated, is giving control up. Ultimately, the good and bad are mostly still human choices. Because, if/once they defeat them- whos going to be the bad guy then?
my impressions (with spoiler) (Score:5, Interesting)
I totally agree that the dance/love scene toward the beginning was bad. In fact, it was absolutely stupid and long. Maybe 5 minutes. I turned to my brother and said "wake me when they get back to the movie".
The rest is good. Excellent action, fast pace, excellent effects. You sit there for, what- 2 hours or so, the whole time very focused. One friend didn't go because he figured the huge crowd would be loud. It wasn't...people with popcorn didn't even eat their popcorn once the movie started...because they were sitting and watching, not blinking and I'm not sure about breathing.
The freeway scene is amazing. You might also notice that every single car is a GM product...but who cares? I'd have loved it even if they were all Fords.
The ending is not just abrupt. It's incredibly abrupt. Your jerk sister waltzed into the theater and changed the channel then hid the remote.
Spoiler stuff...
Don't blame me if you read this!
By the time the movie is over, it seems to me that the secret of the Matrix is revealed too much. My theory: they never left the Matrix. They're inside a Matrix within a Matrix kind of thing. It would explain how Agent Smith is able to infect a person inside the Matrix and, in a sense, return with that person to the "real" world. It would also explain Neo's trick at the end with the Sentinels. It would also explain why he's in a coma (essentially he blue-screens because he acted contrary to this outer Matrix's logic rules). I'm not complaining about this Matrix within a Matrix...just that I wish it didn't seem so obvious. Ah, but still, I'm sure I'll be surprised.
I wasn't too happy with the direction they took The Oracle. But, it works well. All the stuff that The Architect tells Neo...it's interesting. And, it totally explains how anyone (ie. The Oracle and Neo) is able to know the future.
Generally, though, one thing I liked about M1 is that you felt Agent Smith was acting on direct behalf, and with near total knowledge of, the mainframe. You felt that if Agent Smith lacked any piece of information on Neo it was because the Mainframe did. Neo represented a mysterious and perhaps uncontrollable force to the entire system. In M2 we see that's not the case at all. It was kinda disappointing to see that every single programmed manifestation (any 'person' that is not tied to a real body, like the Agents, but not an Agent...and there are many)...every single one of them seem to know every single thing there is to know about Neo. Only Neo is out of the loop, and he doesn't seem to mind much. For the story to work, what The Architect explains to Neo about Neo's true purpose and the looping nature of the Matrix...well, of course everyone knows everything about Neo except Neo. But, I just missed the treatment in M1 that gave a feeling of vulnerability to the system.
Here's one thought that might blow your mind...if I'm right about the Matrix within a Matrix, then given some of what The Architect explained...it would seem that Neo isn't tied to a real body at all. He's another programmed manifestation. In the next movie, when all the minds are freed from whatever they are really trapped within (if any are, since this could all be a simulation within a single PC) then Neo won't be joining Trinity on the outside...
Other little thoughts:
- I thought the Twins would play an important role of some kind. They don't.
- Every single programmed manifestation seems to be programmed as a philosopher. They all wax on about causallity or fate or something deep.
- Morpheus and Trinity have both improved their fighting skills. So much so that, Morpheus at least, actually holds his own pretty well against an Agent in an excellent fight scene. Either that...or it seems the Agent's have forgotten how to move fast.
- You're never quite sure why Agent Smith is in the movie. There's the notion of exiled programs that continue to exist, but they've bucked the system themselves. Agent Sm
Re:Not a problem (Score:3, Interesting)
Shortly before The Matrix we saw Dark City, a really great movie with a different take on that very question. And even before that, there was a ST:TNG episode where Riker was imprisoned and studied by his captors on a simulated Enterprise.
Armed with that kind of history, the first Matrix movie didn't freak me out too much when I found out that what Neo had perceived as reality, in fact, wasn't. I nevertheless enjoyed the movie for what it was - some pseudo-intellectual window dressing on a visual/sfx masterpiece. And I don't mean that in a negative way -- The Matrix is a lot of fun.
Now I just need to remember to stay away from threads like this, because I'm not going to be seeing Reloaded until it's out in Imax (about 2 weeks)! I don't even dare to scroll to the bottom of pages like this one for fear of spoilers.
Yet another take on it (Score:5, Interesting)
It puts a whole bunch of things together. 1 - It means the whole human battery thing is just made up, which makes sense 2 - It means the machines have a much higher level of control that we thought in the first movie. So much in fact that they can accurately create a prophecy. That's what really bothered me about the first movie, how could something within the matrix make predictions about the future, they didn't control events outside of the matrix. The one could just get sick and die outside of the matrix. Not so in this new world. 3 - It explains why the earth's sky is still covered, prevents humans from seeing the starts and learning the correct year. 4 - It explains why agent smith could take over a person outside of the original matrix.
This system would work for the machines unless the anomaly person, i.e. Neo, was also an anomaly person in the second matrix as well. I'm guessing the odds of this are very very low and its the first time that has happened. Which means the machines could have been in control for billions of years.... Overall a very good twist.
The second red pill (Score:4, Interesting)
When the Oracle gives Neo a candy, he takes it, but does not eat it. She takes a matching candy out of her purse and throws it in her mouth. It is identical to the red pill that Neo took in the first place
I noted this when it happened. and thought nothing of it. But after reading this review, I began to wonder if maybe in the third film he finds the candy in his pocket, unwraps it and finally notices it's just like the red pill (a hot tamale perhaps ;)?, eats it, and holy mindfuck, batmat, even more things are revealed, mainly about who/what the Oracle's role is. Hmmm ...
Re:The biggest mistake (Score:2, Interesting)
!!! SPOILERS !!! You have been warned.
All me and my friends can figure out is that they are trapped inside a matrix within a matrix
I thought so too, at the beginning, but then I reconsidered. It's too obvious and it would make the first movie rather pointless.
I also think I understand why they alllow Neo to exist and return again and again (besides fixing a flaw). it sets humanity on a predictable course
They don't *allow* him to exist, he is the one flaw that is inevitable in the Matrix (according to the architect). My thinking is that the Matrix tolerates the existence of Zion (and they don't destroy it completely in each iteration---that would explain the 23 people) because the people there can find the one flaw. The Matrix itself cannot find it. Then, the oracle brings the one to the source, helping to reload the Matrix. They take a small risk that the one will destroy the matrix, but, every time, the human nature takes over and the one cannot bring himself to destroy the Matrix (and everything else with it...)
Unfortunately, this doesn't explain why Neo was capable of stopping the sentinels and why the people of Zion don't remember the other Matrix reloads (remember what the architect said about how old everything is).
!!! END SPOILERS !!!
Re:Actually, you're right. (Score:1, Interesting)
In regard to the Matrix, I really liked it for what it was: a clever, well-written actioner that took its basic premise from Descartes' "evil demon" scenario. No, it doesn't explore in minute detail the metaphysical implications of the hypothesis, and no, its positions on fate aren't particularly well explained. But hey folks, it's an ACTION MOVIE. Who the hell would want to go to see a movie written by Bertrand Russell? I know I don't.
Re:Actually, you're right. (Score:4, Interesting)
While I agree that whatever philosophy is in the Matrix is basically of the "PHIL 101: Introduction to Philosophy" sort, I don't really see how you can say it doesn't derive much of its material from existing philosophical sources. Plato's Allegory of the Cave isn't an existing philosophical source?
Re:Actually, you're right. (Score:3, Interesting)
I've heard this same diatribe from several people, worded almost the same way. Not actually having taken a philosophy class myself, I thought the first Matrix was fairly thought-provoking, and I assumed it derived much of its material from preexisting philosophical sources.
Interesting. My university studies focused around communication and cultural theory, which involved a lot of study of the role of advertising and PR as the "new rhetoric" and the ways in which ideology is spread and hegemony is maintained through them. When I saw the first Matrix, my impression was that it derived much of its material from these sorts of inquiries -- especially postmodern theory.
I guess one is most-inclined to fall back on their education when they are faced with the task of explaining something to themself, whether that approach is from a biological determinist POV, socio-critical, psychological, conservative, liberal, religious, etc.
.
.
I anticipate someone who never actually learned what "postmodern" means will probably take a shot at me. Go for it, I'm wearing the asbestos codpiece. Sorry I felt compelled to share my thoughts.
Re:The biggest mistake (Score:4, Interesting)
It makes me wonder, were there 23 people on the council at Zion? Also, they specifically mentioned that all the council members were older. Maybe they're the 23 people who restarted Zion and maybe they're in on the scheme.
Re:The biggest mistake (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The biggest mistake (Score:3, Interesting)
There's one thing that bothers me about this... if the Oracle can see the future because she's already lived it...
How does she know Trinity and Neo will fall in love? Isn't this the first time that's happened?
Re:SPOILER WARNING! DON'T READ THIS! (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't think that Zion is in the Matrix. To me the evidence points in a different direction.
The Agent Smith - Neo relation
It is a bit hokey I'll admit, but Neo stuck around becase he refused to do what he was supposed to (die at the end of The Matrix). Agent Smith is still around for the same reason. So a link has been established that both this rogue program and Neo are bucking the system.
The next link is established at the very end of the movie. And I pointed it out in another post. Agent Smith is the only one who survived the attack on Zion. Yes, he is technically a machine/program and they might not have killed him because of that, but I think the "premature EMP blast" put him into his coma, and the Sentinels passed over him as dead. Neo on the other hand, is similar to our Agent friend in that he now has his powers outside of the Matrix, sensing the Sentinels' presence because he has become part machine/program. He uses an EMP blast (I am assuming here) to knock them out, and in the process put himself in a coma. No it isn't over-exertion stopping them, it is basically a low level form(at) of suicide.
The hand cutting
Now we come to the scene where Agent Smith is cutting his hand in Zion. The reason behind it is pretty obvious, but the implications are that he is human, not a software program. As evidenced by the fact that Neo was cut by stopping the sword in the fight with Frenchy's henchmen (does that make them French-men?). So if programs don't bleed one can assume that Agent Smith has succesfully left The Matrix and is in the real world. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to cut his hand.
Thats my take anyway...
Re:A question for the master (with spoilers) (Score:3, Interesting)
*There is no architect to deal with. Remember he's a program, so if he tried to save trinity and then deal with the architect remember that 1) he would not be able to save her because he couldn't move fast enough, however he proves this wrong by moving faster than anyone thought he could (even the architect) Also the architect can only be met during that 314second window, so the window has now closed and neo would never find the backdoor again. Not to mention that the matrix would self destruct by his choosing the door. (see point #1)
*I figure that neo is needed to allow the matrix to function. The ability of the matrix to be "believed" by the 99% who do buy into it has caused a need for the matrix #2 to be built, which included the anomily (the one) and then it was dealt with by causing the one to make the choice he does. (kinda sketchy on this point)
*Zion needs to exist because there has to be a place to put the 1% who reject the matrix or else they would ruin it for everyone else.
*Having neo start a new Zion would allow for a place to put the 1% who need to be unplugged. It gives the humans something to do while they are unknowingly helping the matrix. Furthermore, zion will help to discover the "one" through the oracle continuing to basically lie to whoever is in charge of freeing minds, and telling them the hunt for the one can occurr. which in turn starts the whole process over again.
Ok some of it doesn't make sense but that's my stab at answering these questions. You really have to watch it a few times I think.
What about Marovengian? (Score:2, Interesting)
Marovengian used to be 'like him'.. When Neo has the choice between the two doors at the end one
of the doors leads to his re-assimilation into the matrix and his choice of the however many
people to restart zion.
Well, was Merovingian once one of "The One's" that chose that door and was reinserted into the
matrix with special powers? Thus allowing him to live the lavish life he lives with kick ass
programs for both a wife and bodygaurds?
If neo was reinserted then would he also be able to exist within the new matrix with as an exiled program?
Are all of the former 5 "One's" still in the matrix acting as exiled programs? The Oracle? Maybe Seraph?
Re:STAY THROUGH THE CREDITS!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
What happens at the end is they show a short preview clip from the third movie. Like the original Matrix preview, it's full of cool stuff in shots too short to get all that much sense out of other than a sense of anticipation.
The preview does forecast a future battle in which Neo confronts one Agent Smith mano-a-machino in what appears to be a warehouse-sized room lined with at least a thousand additional copies of Smith initially observing from the sidelines. An Oracle voice-over suggests that Neo needs to win this particular battle rather than run (or fly) from it.
SPOILER! (Score:3, Interesting)
Unlike almost every other spoiler post here, I don't think I quite buy the Matrix within a Matrix idea. There are 2 main events that hint about the Matrix in a Matrix:
1. Agent Smith passes himself to the "real" world
2. Neo stops the Sentinels with a wave of his hand
The Matrix within a Matrix certainly answers those two issues, but my theory is that those two issues are directly related. At the end of Matrix 1, Neo literally merges himself with Smith and kills Smith. In Matrix 2, Smith is the equivalent of a computer virus except that he is free like Neo. So Smith assorbs some of Neo.
Neo in return probably assorbed some of Smith and is able to communicate directly with the machine and hence his abilities to stop the Sentinals. All this is speculation of course, as we really won't know the answer until Matrix 3.
I really liked the Architect scene and how it explained things. The orgy scene definitely didn't belong.
Spoiler! Its the EMP, NEO DIDN'T HURT SENTINELS!!! (Score:2, Interesting)
Strangely enough this seems to confuse tons of people and then they use this as evidence that Zion is part of another impreceptable Matrix. Now this may be but it's not why those sentinels fell over. The Brothers just decided to juxtipose the Neo putting his hand up with the Sentinels being fried to confuse and engage the viewers for a moment...Just like Spielberg did at the end of Saving Private Ryan when Tom Hanks is shooting at the tank with his lowly little pistol and then the impossible happens: the tank actually blows up and we all say "what the Hell?" for a moment before we realize there are now bombers overhead. This EMP scene in Reloaded is so similar to the tank scene in SPR that it's almost a homage!!!
I know this movie's intricate plot points were badly layed out but I hope this helps!!
Jenga
Re: No, not always (Score:5, Interesting)
Pray tell, what exactly are these problems of which you speak? Further, how would my education pertain to these problems?
Personally, philosophy study has taught me quite a bit about historical philosophical thought in a variety of realms and also modern controversies and the recovery from the now-widely-criticized Cartesian split.
Did you type that for a resume or something? That seems like a rather narrow benefit to gained your love of wisdom. It is also, to use a more vulgar expression, utter bullshit.
You can write all you want about how worthless your education was, but that is just it: it was your education.
Ahh I can see where this is going, apparently you haven't learned one of the first lessons of philosophy, and that is moderation. Your response is already far out of proportion to what was a rather innocent and obviously light hearted post. Perhaps you didn't notice the parent post regarding how university philosophy professor are out of touch with reality. As pretty much any serious student of philosophy would easily admit, college is only the beginning of what is a life long journey.
Philosophy is great, and I have learned more from philosophy (that I can apply to my actual life) than I have in any of my other studies, though I am a triple major (philosophy, German, psychology), as well as a professional technical writer, and contracting network administrator/web designer.
Like I said, I don't believe you have mastered some of the more basic concepts of self control and moderation but I am glad your studies suited your needs. I must say however that unless you attended a school with less than demanding standards a triple major is hard to believe. I attended a top jesuit university and I could barely finish math and philosophy in four years, with fairly substantial AP credit. What relevence this has to our discussion, I don't know... but I feel like ripping on you.
I can't reasonably hope to disprove your non-coginitivist claims about your personal experience, but if you want to talk about _facts_, you mentioned a few that seemed ludicrous to me:
Why am I not surprised you have decided to use some 20th century buzz word. Please, by all means, let me know what non-cognitivist claims I am making... You read the opinion of a former philosophy student, I would love to see what claims you derived from a flippant post.
However, the reason you did not learn about the Critique in you undergraduate program is because you would need to spend an extremely intense period of time studying it -- usually in a course during graduate school.
Actually, I had to take a whole class in it. Having attended a Jesuit university meant that most classes revolved around theistic philosophers, and as that single book is the best weapon a theist has for defending his faith it was required.
Second, to say that Das Kapital has never been completely read by any man alive today is ridiculous, unless you mean only that it has never been fully understood by any man alive today, which is a question that is impossible to resolve.
Apparently, in your vast studies of philosophy and literature, you have never encountered the rhetorical device of exaggeration. Since such poetic devices are used frequently by Nietzsche, it seems you are unfamiliar with one major philosopher otherwise you would not have taken my words so literally.
This seems strange in one of the most thorough philosophy programs in the country, but as one of my professors said: we leave Marx for the less intelligent political science theorists.
I think that claim is another example of how you embody the very problem with academia today. I will not comment on Marx here, but it is unreasonable for a learned individual to dismiss any profoundly effective work as someth
Re:SPOILER WARNING! DON'T READ THIS! (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm not sure that Smith exactly downloaded himself; Remember the part where his 'victim' starts carving on his own hand. Seems slightly insane, to me; Certainly not very Smith-like. My impression is that his victim was not overwritten, but rather that he was implanted with a compulsion to aid the machines, and is now slightly insane as a result of the violence of that act.
Re:Spoiler! Its the EMP, NEO DIDN'T HURT SENTINELS (Score:2, Interesting)
Excellent followup (Score:3, Interesting)
We're entering SPOILER territory, so be prepared. There are plenty of reviews/thoughts that are spoiler-free, so go read them and check this out once your done.
Anyway.
I hadn't thought of the Matrix-within-a-Matrix until I had read through these comments. It makes sense.
I LOVED THE PACING OF THE FIRST 45 MINUTES. There, I said it. I don't know why everyone keeps bitching about it. You needed to get a sense of Zion, to get a feeling of familiarity, to get a feeling of sympathy for an inanimate place which will be destroyed (inevitably) in a spectacular sequence in Revolutions. You need to see the people at their height, fearless and unafraid, partying and happy to be alive before they are killed.
You NEEDED to see Link's relationship to Dozer's sister, how they worked as a couple, how decisions were made.
You NEEDED a love scene between Neo and Trinity because it was the only time, in probably all three movies, where a) they had time to themselves and b) didn't have to screw in a submarine.
The orgy thing seems to be pushed a bit hard. There's nothing there that isn't in your average rave. Sure there's a nipple shot here and there, but that's a far cry from bukkake people.
There's also a very insightful comment about how the machines insist the decision is made because that's what the mind would like to believe. That we're steered toward a goal that is obvious, and attainable. The one which appears unbelievable and lucid, well, that's just out of reach, accept it. The Oracle looks like an old woman because you trust that she is who she says she is.
After seeing both, I think I've concluded something about the first two films:
"The Matrix" is the "Discovery"
"The Matrix Reloaded" is the "Understanding"
This second film demonstrates to Neo the fact that he DOES have a choice, and the truth is known to him if only for a brief instant at the end of the film. It is in that split second before he comas out that he knows the "Real World" is a Matrix in and of itself, and that he too can make choices, not blindly go along with "fate" as the Oracle so wonderfully dishes out.
Predictions for Revolutions:
1) Zion will be destroyed in a very geekily-excellent sequence.
2) Neo will unlock ALL of the Matrixes, and we will get to see the "Real Real World" just before the credits.
3) Trinity is pregnant. C'mon people, you know that love scene couldn't be in there for no reason.
4) Morpheus might be a program. Remember, as the wild theorem which makes the most since to me states, the machines have created prophecy. Who has more faith in it than him?
Just some thoughts. Discuss amongst yourselves.
Re:Reality By Consensus: Humans as Ontology Engine (Score:2, Interesting)
When you said:
"Humans create this Matrix through their beliefs; the Machine's power to control the Matrix may thus directly be tied to how humans think the Matrix may work,"
I was reminded of the bit in the first movie when Smith tells Morpheus about how the first iteration of the Matrix, the pre-lapsarian 'perfect' state, didn't gel because it didn't match people's expectations of how the world should work. Due to our imperfect nature, our inherent striving, we expect the world to be imperfect as well. Of course machines didn't understand this aspect of human nature straight away.
Your observation is also bolstered by the repeated allusions to the *interdependence* of man and machine. (Perhaps both Smith and Neo have broken free of this interdependence, each in their own way(?).)
The idea of 'people's expectations dictating their reality' serves as such a rich launching symbol/analogy for so many kinds of philosophical explorations (assumptions about the self, free will, knowledge, the nature of existence). Decreasing deception, Plato's Cave Myth, etc. And of course the religious overtones of enlightenment, etc. No wonder people get so much out of it.
My main criticism of Reloaded is the same as my main criticism of the first flick: at-times very clunky storytelling that obscures when it should clarify things -- except it's worse this time around. Not just the dialogue/exposition, but the narrative of the overall film structure. So much happens during the last 'act' -- particularly starting with the attack on the 'mainframe' -- which is only briefly alluded to, the audience is trying to fill in the blanks, and is distracted at the very time it should be able to concentrate on all the crazy stuff that 'Architect' is throwing at it. The poor pacing and editing here really undercuts the power of the story. But overall, I thought the film was excellent, and most of the criticisms I have read are really rather superficial.
Re:Only (Score:3, Interesting)
Please don't confuse that drivel for philosophy. That movie was totally incoherent. The writers knew it and tried to patch it up with gratuitous and expensive kung fu scenes. Maybe I should mention this: the professors vowed that if any element of a student's paper so much as reminds them of M2, that paper gets an F. Not out of spite, but because they won't tolerate the passing off of vacuous crap as deep insight. And they can tell the difference.
I seriously thing your friend should change majors, lest be be laughed out of every philosophy graduate program on earth.
Re:Only (Score:3, Interesting)
But then again, I tend to love the movies everyone hates, re-animator, buckaroo banzai, etc.