Pioneer To Release TiVo/DVD Burner Combo

TK-421 writes "According to an official Pioneer press release, 'Pioneer is revolutionizing home video recording with the introduction of the world's first DVD recorders featuring the TiVo service. These new recorders offer consumers the control provided by the easy-to-use TiVo service integrated with advanced DVD recording for the option of short-term storage on a hard drive or long-term archival of broadcast programming on DVD-R/RW discs.'" The options include both 80 and 120GB models, starting at a not-inexpensive $1199, and there's more information via a CNET News article.

How long till...

[Basje]

... someone sues them for copyright infringement. The voting boot is open.
But please be quick: you can only vote while no litigation has been announced.

And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post...

[Moderation abuser]

No, you can't. I've seen the systems and they are pathetic in comparison to a £200 tivo.

It's like buying a replica ferrari, it may look like a good idea but it doesn't have the performance.

Everything comes up short...

[evilviper]

Why can't anyone make what consumers want?

Tivo would be great if it didn't require on-going charges (and doesn't allow anyone to screw around with the installed software).

Throwing a DVD burner into the mix is a great step-up, but only if there is some way to edit the program before burning it... I don't want to have a copy for 50 years on DVD that starts with the end of the program before it, has commercial breaks in the middle, etc. It wouldn't take much work to give editing functionality (even if edited content must be burned to DVD and can't be watched from the hard drive, I can live with that.)

So, when are we going to see some such system? Or are we going to have to wait until someone releases a distro that does all this on PC hardware?

MPAA?

[FryGuy1013]

Didn't one of the PVR's remove a feature to share recordings between networked PVR's for fear of MPAA lawsuits? This isn't even restricted to the same kind of machines. Now you can record movies off of showtime/hbo automatically and burn them to dvd. I wonder what MPAA will do about this.

Now if they added commercial skipping and the ability to burn commercial skipped shows to dvd, that would be really pushing things. Hopefully my homebrew PVR box will have a DVD burner soon, and it will be able to do this.

Re:hm

[drix]

Pull your head out of your grammatical ass, it captures a subtle shade of meaning that "expensive" doesn't. The rules they taught you in 7th grade english are breakable, sometimes to great effect.

Hmm

[pokka]

It sounds like a good idea, but most TiVo users who wanted to have more space or convert their collection to DVD have already figured out how to do so with minimal investment (TiVoNet, DVD-R, hard drive) -- much less than the price of this new TiVo.

Another reason I wouldn't buy one is that I know the HDTV-based [tivo.com] models are due out sometime in the near future, so investing $1,200 in something that will be obsolete in 1-2 years seems like a bad idea.

Still, it's nice for brand new users who have never owned a PVR and don't know how to use telnet.

Have we really come that far?

[thelandp]

And after all that technology, is it really that much better than a VHS VCR?

The biggest difference my parents are aware of is they can't fast-forward the copyright warnings on DVDs...

Re:Why is Tivo still a set top box?

[Osty]

I'd have thought that by now people would have started building the thing into the actual sets.

That's an easy one. People are far more likely to buy a $400 set top box than a $2000 TV. As well, people are more likely to agree to pay a subscription fee for a cheaper piece of hardware. If you put this into their TV set and then tell them they have to pay extra to get full functionality, they'll look at you funny and then call you an idiot if you think they're going to buy a $2000 TV that requires them to keep on paying. Finally, a STB is portable. If I want to have the Tivo in my bedroom on the small TV, but move it to the big TV in the entertainment room when I want to watch certain recorded shows, I can. If it's built into my TV in the entertainment room, I can't watch it in the bedroom, and vice versa (yeah, you can solve that with a networking solution, but then that requires another box, or another TV set with more built-in functionality, for more money).

Could TiVO partner with a TV manufacturer to build the functionality into a model line? Sure. Should they? Probably. Will they? Probably not.

Re:Everything comes up short...

[Babbster]

Throwing a DVD burner into the mix is a great step-up, but only if there is some way to edit the program before burning it... I don't want to have a copy for 50 years on DVD that starts with the end of the program before it, has commercial breaks in the middle, etc. It wouldn't take much work to give editing functionality (even if edited content must be burned to DVD and can't be watched from the hard drive, I can live with that.)

Part of the reason that PVRs like Tivo and ReplayTV still exist (though Replay has been sued, encouraging them to remove some features) is that they DON'T edit the originally broadcasted content. Providing easy-to-use editing features in a box like this - particularly in reference to commercials - will ensure litigation and will make it more likely that said litigation will be successful.

This is of even greater concern to content producers since more and more television shows are being released in pre-recorded DVD sets and being able to easily make commercial-free DVDs of TV shows at home would cut into that market.

Re:Great idea.. if implemented right

[Babbster]

They don't "need" to have editing options to cut out commercials on the DVDs. VCRs have been quite successful for some time without them. Frankly, the only people THAT concerned about not having commercials on shows they save are the super geeks. Most people are perfectly content with the ability to fast (really fast in the case of PVR and DVD recordings) forward through them.

Heck, my mom has, through my good graces, had a PVR for quite some time and there are still times when she doesn't even bother skipping commercials...me, I get a crawling itch when I can't skip commercials but I'm one of the aforementioned "super geeks" - of course, I'm also lazy (too lazy to process shows through the computer and then burn them commercial-free) so I just buy DVD collections whenever possible.

Re:MPAA?

[Babbster]

The difference here is that each copy you give to someone will require buying a DVD-R/RW disc (making this more akin to VCR-style sharing which has already passed the court test) while the ReplayTV show-sharing option didn't require any physical intervention whatsoever and the only thing standing in the way of giving shows away to everyone who wanted them was Internet bandwidth. The ReplayTV show-sharing function was, for all intents and purposes, the same as Kazaa, Gnutella and all the other peer-to-peer PC file sharing programs - the peers were simply task-specific devices (PVRs) instead of general purpose devices (PCs)

Re:MPAA?

[UnknowingFool]

There are some key points. It is unlikely that the implementation of this Tivo/DVD R/W will be targeted by the MPAA.

1) Sharing video between PVRs is like P2P music sharing today. No exchange of medium (DVD disc) is required. That's why it has probably been removed.

2) Recording a broadcast is not the same as copying the digital original. In this way, it is no different than a VCR. Only the medium and format has changed but you're still not getting the higher quality orignal.

3) Pioneer (if they were a smart company) probably discussed the matter with their lawyers and the MPAA first before releasing this box. They don't want to get sued any more than the average joe.

Re:Why is Tivo still a set top box?

[91degrees]

But do most people prefer to do this? Since you're posting on /. I'll assume you are not afraid of wires. Some people are though. A TiVO in a setup is a scary prospect for a lot of people. Here's how my system was configured:

SCART from Cable box to TiVO
SCART from TiVO to VCR
SCART from TiVO to TV
Aerial connection from wall to TiVO
Aerial connection from tivo to VCR
Aerial connection from VCR to TV
Telephone connection from TiVO to wall socket
Cable connection from wall to cable box
Plugs to all 4 units.

That's a lot of wires.

And TVs don't go wrong very often. Adding the inconvenience of external devices is a bigger problem.

Most?

[sfgoth]

most TiVo users who wanted to have more space or convert their collection to DVD have already figured out how to do so with minimal investment (TiVoNet, DVD-R, hard drive)

I suppose you think "most" = you and your friends.

Of the people I know with Tivos, including myself, about half have upgraded the hard drive. And none of them have set up video offloading, because we don't have the time to maintain such a cumbersome hack.

The half that haven't upgraded are generally our parents, who think the Tivo is the coolest thing ever, and would gladly buy a new unit instead of voiding the warentee.

Still, it's nice for brand new users who have never owned a PVR and don't know how to use telnet.

Which describes 249 Million Americans who don't own a PVR yet pretty well. I think they have a killer product on their hands, although it is a bit pricy.

-pmb

Re:How long till...

[volkerdi]

This isn't copyright infringement. Home recording and archiving is considered fair use for non-commerical purposes, and is protected in the US by the Home Recording Act (for now). Plus, TiVo has always detected Macrovision (anti-analog copying technology) and if the show was originally broadcast with it (mostly Pay Per View), the TiVo will produce Macrovision on the analog outs to try to prevent recording. My guess is that this new unit will refuse to burn Macrovision-protected shows to DVD-R, and that will be good enough to satisfy those who control the content.