Technical Glitches Plague BuyMusic.com 691
An anonymous reader submits: "Despite its much larger target market, BuyMusic.com does not seem to be the runaway success that Apple's iTunes Music Store was. USA Today is reporting that customers have experienced technical glitches that prevent them from playing their purchases. Another customer reports that the BuyMusic tech support does little more than say 'Sorry, but that's YOUR problem.' Finally, a musician whose music is for sale at BuyMusic questions the legality of BuyMusic's catalog." Scriptygoddess's account of her unhappy experience is mirrored here.
mmmm, is this good or bad? (Score:3, Interesting)
Heh (Score:2, Interesting)
Definite Technical Glitches (Score:3, Interesting)
it's not anymore? (Score:3, Interesting)
so do we have to drop the 'runaway' now?
Seriously though, Apple knows how to make a good UI ( 10.3 not withstanding
Ease of use and meeting consumer demands wins this match (for once!).
MacSlash's article BuyMusic's catalog legality... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What are they trying to prevent? (Score:5, Interesting)
I just came back from a vacation, and I thought I was smart enough to bring a DVD player along (well, my XBOX, since I could watch movies and play games on that one machine), since I knew the hotel's TV would have at least a composite video jack in.
Plug it in, sit down, and...
Yet another instance where I am attempting to play a legit product, and am stopped by "copy protection." I decided to fark the movie (and possibly return it out of spite) and just play KOTOR instead.
The funny thing was, if I had ripped the DVD and burned it to a DVD-R, I could've enjoyed the movie I PAID FOR, as I obviously couldn't with the original.
Re:MP3 is for pirates (Score:5, Interesting)
This has never been proven in court, and has the substantial potential to damage their reputation. The only way that bm.com would be able to get away with allegations such as these, as far as I know (albeit IANAL) would be for a judge to decree that the ONLY use for KaZaA is 'piracy'.
Although, given the fact that probably 60-70% of the activity which takes place on KaZaA is 'piracy' by nature, they'd probably have a hard time making any libel/slander allegations stick.
That's why you don't run a company. (Score:4, Interesting)
Isn't that just what they did? Though it's been the nicest "beta" I've ever been in.
The BuyMusic fiasco proves exactly why you want a limited beta first (and DRM that doesn't kill your customer experience, but that's another issue), so that when 95% of the market really does get access they have a smooth experience from the start. The first few days of iTunes were a little shaky from an availability standpoint, but now they've figured out how to manage the load and are ramping up for the rest of the world.
Sure it is their fault.. never a prob with iTunes (Score:5, Interesting)
iTunes, on the other hand, gives the user EVERYTHING in a neat little package. The connection to the music store is seamless, and you can play, sort, and burn from a single app, without any of this DRM related business, or privacy concerns. If a company expects users to use their service, they could at LEAST make it easy to use, and from this account, that is probably the last thing that it is.
I have visited their site and would like to say that it feels very hollow, and dosn't have a whole lot of content. iTunes offers clip samples that are full quality and 30 seconds long(guarenteed to work because everything is done in a nice, streamlined client). I couldn't even get BuyMusic to even play the sample because of the problems with all the external player stuff. Two more things that piss me off include the fact that BuyMusic has neglected to even catagorize my favroite genre: Electronica, and the fact that it only works with Windows, and seems that they have no plans for the rest of us, and I had to access it from a public terminal because all I have at home is a mac and some Linux boxes. At least Apple is trying to port iTunes to Windows, so I could probably get it to work with WINE.
It clearly is their fault for not providing practical means to accomplish reasonable ends.
Re:Why (Score:3, Interesting)
If I can't listen to the thing in my car, on my stereo and in my portable CD player, what good is the damn thing?
You don't buy DVDs and license them for one DVD player in your house, that you can't lend to a friend or watch in your bedroom, do you?
Re:Apple, etc. (Score:3, Interesting)
The main difference between Apples bugs and everyone elses bugs is that Apple WILL NOT acknowledge the problem EVER. It took them 8 months to finally come out and say "Yeah the
The only reason Apples system is a success is the lack of "in your face" DRM. It will do well simply because of that. Apples services and products are good until something goes wrong. Once something goes wrong it's lie, cheat and steal time and Jobs, et. al. are laughing all the way to the bank.
I love my mac, I love OSX but I REALLY FUCKING HATE Apple. The day someone comes out with a better mouse trap I will jump ship. My iPod is wonderful but by the time someone comes out with a better mouse trap it will probably be the low end of the spectrum.
My record is on Buymusic.com :( (Score:5, Interesting)
My record is on there [buymusic.com] It is also on CD NOW [amazon.com] but that was during the contract and all cool with us. I don't have the contract (another member of the band has it) and I don't remember what it says. I haven't spoken to the other guys yet, but I'm pretty sure that contract ran out awhile ago.
Every song you buy off of buymusic.com is not paying the artists, that's for sure. And I don't know how Orchard [theorchard.com] could even have copies to sell, we sent it to them to distribute; they aren't manufacturers.
We payed for that record out of pocket, and still have a zillion. :(
If you like the samples here [amazon.com], let me know and I'll get you a CD. We still have boxes of the album, since the band went down right after releasing it. Ah, the sad stories of Minneapolis...
Don't Even Own The Music (Score:3, Interesting)
-Tom
Re:Me too.. Me too.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:mmmm, is this good or bad? (Score:5, Interesting)
-IE req.
-DRM-enabled WM9.
-Real number of songs are closer to 100000 than 300000.
-128Kpbs.
-From their Cust. Agreem.:"all downloaded Content is sublicensed to End Users and not sold, notwithstanding use of the terms "sell," "purchase," "order," or "buy" on the Site or this Agreement. "
You don't buy the music you just license them.
-And now; bad customer support.
So basically their offer is very unattractive when you can get a better offer from free. Illegal, but still much better if you look compare benefits and risk.
Even the lowest of the low whitin P2P, Kazaa offers the following:
-Any browser to download Kazaa.
-No DRM, MP3 or some OGG.
-Probably above 1 mill. songs
-160-192Kpbs.
-Copy-right enfringment with low probability of getting caught.
-You can keeep the music as long as you want as long as RIAA don't sue you.
-No support but the service is free.
I doubt BuyMusic.com will succeed.
Re:mmmm, is this good or bad? (Score:5, Interesting)
Rumor has it they are still pinning down the licensing for the Windows version. I hope that they can point to BuyMusic and say, "See how crappy it is when the licensing is messed up? Our simplicity, consistency, and method of delivery result in *many* more downloads."
Who's paying? (Score:2, Interesting)
iTunes Music Store just works. Thats all I ask. (Score:2, Interesting)
The thing about iTunes Music Store that makes me use it is it is reliable, and SIMPLE. Songs need only be authorized once and entire albums are authorized simultaneously. In fact I have yet to have to authorize anything because when I download they are automatically authorized into the computer I am currently using.
Downloads are really fast too, they must have major bandwidth. It just seems like Apple negotiated FAR better terms for their users than the other music download services, which all seem to have onerous restrictions. If Apple opens their service up to Windows users, they will own the online music business. Apple gets it.
Re:They Don't Support Mozilla (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:My record is on Buymusic.com :( (Score:3, Interesting)
Good luck on getting your royalties....hope things go well for you and the old band.
Re:Surprise, surprise. (Score:5, Interesting)
Emphasis on ease of use, customer experience, technical quality.
Focal issue: adding value to Mac systems to attract switchers and sell iPods.
Result: Pretty decent music service, all things considered.
I can't believe how easy iTMS is to access and set up, and allowing you to actually own the music you purchase is the selling point. I can play it on three computers including my workstation at the lab, my home workstation and the iTunes music server we have set up at the house. Apple has made a number of purchases of iPods and Macs simply from people coming over to parties at our house and seeing how cool the iTunes music server is. We have our entire music collection on that thing in a searchable, organizable database, and I never have to mess with another jewelcase again. The iTMS has made it possible for me never to have to drive down to the hateful mall music store again.
BuyMusic.com:
Emphasis on Being Cheaper than iTMS, locking out non-approved systems, Looking an awful lot like iTMS.
It looks like iTMS even down to the commercials, but like most things in the computer industry that copy Apple, they copy Apple badly. Also, look at the wording of the sales bit. Songs from.79 cents. I have priced a number of albums, and if they are available, which often times they are not despite being listed, the albums end up being more expensive than iTMS. Also, as mentioned in the linked blog, DRM is a total pain in the ass with BuyMusics version.
Focal issue: Establish self as competition for iTMS before Apple gets the Windows version out.
I tried using BuyMusic.com on a Windows system here and it is a total farce. Songs listed are not actually available, things are expensive, I cannot figure out how to deauthorize the computer I used to attempt to purchase songs, etc...etc...etc... Apple is gonna waste these jokers if they can get iTMS available for Windows in a timely manner.
Result: left as an exercise for the reader.
I know what my experience has been, and I will be happily using iTMS on OS X, thankyou.
the price (Score:5, Interesting)
Example [buymusic.com]
Download free, legal music with iRATE radio (Score:5, Interesting)
But there is the problem of finding the music, and weeding out the bad stuff without actually having to download and play it all.
This problem is solved with iRATE radio's [sourceforge.net] collaborative filtering:
iRATE radio's server has 46,000 tracks registered in its database - so if you use iRATE, you don't need to go hunting for music anymore. All of these are legal downloads from websites like mine [geometricvisions.com]. (I compose for the piano.)The way iRATE works is that it downloads a few tracks at random at first. It downloads them directly from the artists' Web sites after finding them in its database. (The author of iRATE is careful to register only legal downloads.) After you listen to and rate the tracks, your ratings are sent back to the server where it uses statistical analysis to correllate your ratings with the ratings given by other users. If you like the same kind of music I do, then iRATE will send you all the same music I like. Conversely, if you hate my music, iRATE won't send you the music I like.
iRATE is a java program, known to work on Windows, Linux and Mac OS X. The client and server are both Free Software, licensed with the GPL.
Here's some screen shots [sourceforge.net].
While iRATE works on Mac OS X, it could stand some improvement. Apple provides a package which can give java programs a native Mac OS look and feel. The project is actively seeking Mac OS X java programmers
My back and forth with BuyMusic technical support (Score:5, Interesting)
My Email:
Their Response:Apple, on the other hand, has a form on their support page that specifically deals with cases where a computer goes down for the count, or where the user sells or formats the computer forgetting to deauthorize it.
http://www.info.apple.com/usen/musicstore/musicsto re.html?topic=computer_authorization
I'm really really surprised that BuyMusic put absolutely NO thought into what would happen if a user loses his computer, or decides its time to retire it. This is not some obscure issue that will never come up for most people. Upgrading one's computer is the one constant of using a PC, really! Its making very little sense to use this at all compared to going to a store and picking up the CD.
Re:It is your problem not ours... (Score:5, Interesting)
1. Design something whch works well;
2. Make a fair deal (with usually unfair people) and honor your agreement;
4. Treat those who use your service as valued customers and not like necessary evils;
5. Profit ?
Frankly if I were making decisions for Apple, I would seriously cosider *not* making a Windoze version of the Music Store. How long could it possibly take for M$ and the RIAA to agree to somethng obvious.
Different methaphor same problems. (Score:5, Interesting)
What we have going on here (which I don't see anyone discussing this in depth) are the 2 heavily conflicting spiels coming out of the 2-mouthed double talkers of the media companies.
OK when you go buy a DVD or a CD, or an electronic song, you are getting essentially 2 things, Media and a license.
Now from all the claptrap that is going a reasonable person would think that the license if the big deal. Pay for the license and all is well. If this were the case then the media would be inconsequential. The format or type of the media would be irrelevant. Fair use could be exercised and all would be well. If this were true then you should able to reasonably get replacement media with reasonable verification of license and a modest replacement fee. (This is what Nintendo basically told me when i asked about if my gamecube games are damaged, I still have the email). Alas this is *FALSE*. There may be a few anecdotes on people who have managed to strong arm someone into doing it, usually right after the sale, but to the best my knowledge there is no such thing.
What problem is this a different metaphor for? DVD regioning. Again if the license was the real issue, and you paid said license, then if you were to move to a new region you should reasonably be able to turn in your old media a reasonable service charge (80-100% is not reasonable, if it were then the license would be only 0-20% of the cost) and get media that will play in your new region.
Now lets walk over to the other side of the fence. Let us say that instead of licensing you *bought* and actually *owned* that copy of the music. Well then you could do all the things you normally do with any other object you own. Use it until if falls apart, sell it, rent it, loan it, try it out in the store maybe? Once you own something its your responsibility to take care of it. If its a manufacturing defect its covered under warranty.
The current state of affairs is neither. You pay for a license with all sorts of restrictions of use, you have media that won't be replaced. With DVDs its illegal to make legit backup copies to prevent damage. The media guys want to have it all their way. This kind of behavior of treating your 'customers' like the scum of the earth is unsustainable.
Thank you for your indulgence.
Re:mmmm, is this good or bad? (Score:2, Interesting)
For starters, I had to poke around before I came across anything that even represented their strongest selling point- 79 cent songs. What I found for that price was smooth jazz christmas music.
I put in the Mc5 it came up with Mc Hammer. $1.00 for U Can't Touch This? u can't even keep that album in print because u don't have an audience that gives anything remotely like a shit, but they seriously want actual MONEY to buy- excuse me, license, the track? is this the onion?
Perhaps it's a side effect to being in bed with the record labels (the RIAA subpeonas seemed rather well-timed to the launch of this site, didn't they?) but because of the pricing scheme alone, it's not even much of a bargain. Downloading the entire 'Experience Hendrix' disc will set you back $20.00- that's at least 25% more than you would expect to pay for an actual cd. Even a monkey walking into a Sam Goody at an airport or whatever could probably swing it for $18.98 or so.
And lastly, does the term 'Digital Rights Management' freak anyone else out?
Re:What are they trying to prevent? (Score:4, Interesting)
Even better: xbox+modchip = no macrovision, no region protection, and you can even rip games and dvds to the hard drive for faster load times and instant access (no hunting down that disc that's under the pile of clothes in your game room)
And when you upgrade the xbox hd to 120 gigs, you have the perfect media jukebox on the go. (for your situation, at least)
Re:What are they trying to prevent? (Score:3, Interesting)
copy protection -> p2p
Re:What are they trying to prevent? (Score:3, Interesting)
Imagine if the RIAA had spent half the money they've spent on lawyers by now pushing tipjar-advocacy instead. e-gold has been around since 1996 and musicians like Courtney Love sure TALK a good game about going around the RIAA quintopoly, but so far I've seen little action from her (she's in her binge-phase again?). Still, it's possible to get paid directly, with e-gold and a bunch of others by now, whether or not the RIAA or artists like Courtney actually choose to think about the issue or try a better form of money...
JMR
Go back a few years... (Score:3, Interesting)
* The pundits started trashing the concepte because it really, really sucked when you couldn't re-install Lotus 1-2-3 which cost $295 (that's about 595 in today's $). Now were talkin a $20 CD.
* Central Point Software made a killing on a product called Coppy II PC which would basically autohack copy protected stuff ranging from dBase to Lotus 1-2-3 to Apache and Broderbund's games.
* Companies like Borland would steal market share from the big players by highlighting their stuff wasn't copy protected and had a "paperback" license where you could install on as many machines as you want, but only user one installation.
* Software publishers did a cost-benefit analysis and realized that they would loose 3-5% in sales and pick up 5-10% in profit margin by not licensing copy protection.
Consumers want stuff they can use.
Sorry, but they are already a failure (Score:1, Interesting)
iTunes sold a million songs to 5% of the computer population in 1 week. Rave reviews, no problems with glitches, or anything like that.
BuyMusic sells less than 1/2 that number of songs to 20 times the number of users, has bad reviews, infringing artists copyrights, removing fair use restrictions for consumers, and YOU CALL THAT A SUCCESS?
I call it an astounding failure that will be a big black eye to Buy.com, Microsoft (for their horrible DRM), and mostly to the RIAA which is too busy suing their customers to make sure they have a product worth selling.
I hope people like you curl up into a ball, go into a basement and stop bothering honest decent people.
Re:MP3 is for pirates (Score:3, Interesting)
The sad thing, is the actual compression technology in Windows Media 8 and 9 is quite impressive, both audio and video.
I just don't understand why Microsoft has gotten off the path that actually made them a respected company at one time.
They were really strong about providing clients for their technologies for other platforms in the early 90s, and then it stopped.
Whoever the donkey at Microsoft that decided it was bad business to provide a media player client for *nix and other OSes should be knocked up side the head.
If WMA is ever going to really show its abilities, Microsoft MUST provide clients and encoders for other OSes than Windows.
I can almost understand them stopping the IE client development for other OSes. But not having clients for WMA/WMV on every platform is just shooting themselves in the head.
On my laptop where space is a premium, I like the fact I can use WMA for my audio, and have the files almost half the size at the same quality as a MP3.
I just want to see Microsoft start doing the right thing again, and get client players for these technologies on all OSes if they truly believe in them.
If not, give up the goat. Go back to the standards body and release the codecs into the public domain and give up the idea of being their 'own' standard. Which is a concept that has killed so many companies and products over the years.
Re:Why (Score:2, Interesting)
Does anyone know if Fourier (or the person who invented DCT) is alive today? I wonder if these mathemetitians ever thought that their algorithms would someday lead to college students getting sued en masse by large corporations for listening to music. If any of them are still alive, I'd love to hear their opinions.
Re:emusic.com DRM free (Score:3, Interesting)
Before I sign up, does anyone have any comments about the service? Are the downloads really unlimited? Can I saturate my cable modem 24/7? I'm gonna check this out as soon as I free up some space.
Re:What are they trying to prevent? (Score:5, Interesting)
Clearly you have done something wrong. You have gotten something without paying the asked price. Do they charge too much? Are they ripping off the Actors by controlling distribution of their work? Maybe.
Does that give you the moral/legal right to not pay?
I don't think so. Downloading music instead of buying the CD seems about the same. You aren't stealing. You aren't even a pirate. You are consuming a commercial good/service without paying the asked price. (disclaimer: I have downloaded music without paying)
Occurs to me that this is more like peeking through the fence at the circus. You aren't going in and enjoying the show without paying, you aren't taking anything away from the circus owner since you probably wouldn't have paid anyway. You aren't even trespassing because you are on public property. But you are doing something wrong. You are getting something for free that the circus owner has spent money to put together to make a living from. He has a right to chase you away from the holes in the fence.
Re:How does Mac do it? (Score:3, Interesting)
Here is what I mean.
1. RIAA wants DRM on all music files
2. Apple makes it very easy to remove DRM, therefore making it very easy to share files with friends, without paying.
3. What Apple did is not a hard thing to do for any big company. Why do other companies make their DRM so much of a pain in the ass?
I mean, since apple can run a high quality low DRM music web site, why aren't there others? It certainly isn't a technical problem.
Re:emusic.com DRM free (Score:2, Interesting)