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The Almighty Buck Businesses United States

2002 SAGE Salary Survey Finally Released 343

Posted by timothy from the or-hardly-working dept.
Ted Cabeen writes "The 2002 Salary Survey run by SAGE, SANS, and Sun's BigAdmin Group profiled in a March Slashdot Article has finally been released. Everybody who participated in the survey is entitled to a copy, as well as current members of those groups. How does your salary stack up in the post-crash economy?"
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2002 SAGE Salary Survey Finally Released More

2002 SAGE Salary Survey Finally Released

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  • What salary?!?!? (Score:5, Funny)

    by bryan1945 ( 301828 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:03AM (#6920258) Journal
    You insensitive clod!

    (so bored... so bored... so bored...)

  • Post the text (Score:2, Insightful)

    by confused one ( 671304 )
    Somebody please post the text. It's asking for a user id for authentication; and, I'm not a user...

    I'd like to see just how poorly I rate (corrected for crappy South East Virginia wages, of course). Let me put it this way: I've seen the articles listing the average starting salary for a new college graduate; and, I want to know where I went wrong...

    • Re:Post the text (Score:5, Funny)

      by gfody ( 514448 ) * on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:15AM (#6920347)
      from highest to lowest

      PHB $300,000
      Executive Mgmt $150,000
      Engineer (Pro) $80,000
      Engineer (Hack) $60,000
      Engineer (Guru) $$$ here and there + unemployment
      I.T (Mgmt) $50,000
      I.T (Reboot Monkey) Minimum Wage + unemployment
      PR/Accounting "are you guys interested in equity" + unemployment
      Legal (depends on the company $$$$(SCO))
      Sales (commission only = $0) + unemployment
      VC all dead apparently (mass suicide??)
    • Let me put it this way: I've seen the articles listing the average starting salary for a new college graduate; and, I want to know where I went wrong

      Stop going to the wayback machine. You need to read articles from 2003.

      Also, I think where you went wrong was going into computers for the money.
      • Actually, I have

        I'm one of the "been layed off and took a new job at a lower salary" crowd.

        Anyone have any idea how we can re-create the 90's and make it sustainable? I need the money.

        It really pissed me off when a guy I knew with no college and some VB scripting experience got a $60k job working for some telemarketing company...

    • Re:Post the text (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:33AM (#6920490)
      Metro Area || Avg. Salary || %Incr || %Resp
      San Francisco/San Jose/Silicon Valley, CA Metro Area 87,238 6.2 11.4
      New York Metro Area 85,010 8.3 8.1
      Boston, MA, Metro Area 77,211 4.7 6.7
      Washington, DC Metro Area 75,614 10.3 12.6
      Philadelphia, PA, Metro Area 74,343 5.5 3.6
      Dallas,TX Metro Area 73,390 7.4 4.7
      Los Angeles/ Orange Co., CA Metro Area 73,285 9.4 7.7
      Atlanta, GA Metro Area 70,809 7.0 4.8
      Chicago, IL Metro Area 70,448 8.5 7.5
      Denver, CO Metro Area 69,493 5.1 4.6
      London, England Metro Area 69,486 6.5 1.3
      Seattle/Redmond,WA Metro Areas 69,082 7.6 5.6
      San Diego, CA Metro Area 68,969 11.0 3.5
      Houston,TX Metro Area 68,194 7.7 2.7
      Research Triangle, NC Metro Area 67,261 6.8 2.5
      Austin,TX Metro Area 65,606 9.3 2.6
      Ottawa, ON Metro Area 52,520 4.0 2.2
      Toronto, ON Metro Area 50,506 9.8 2.9
      Sydney, Australia Metro Area 50,503 10.6 1.2
      Vancouver, BC Metro Area 44,451 6.9 2.2
      Montreal, QC Metro Area 43,616 10.9 1.6

      • Re:Post the text (Score:4, Funny)

        by confused one ( 671304 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:59AM (#6920721)
        Hmmm... I fall between DC and Research Triangle. I'm making a little over half of the so called "average". Somehow that makes sense... (half way between, making half as much, twisted humor :p

        *Puts on Happy Helmet* I love my job, I love my job, I love my job, glad I have a job...

      • Re:Post the text (Score:3, Interesting)

        by molarmass192 ( 608071 )
        The salary levels makes sense to me but the increases are way out of whack from anything I've heard. I haven't heard of any salary decreases but I know of VERY few companies in the valley that do not have salary freezes in place. I've heard of a few targeted (ie. not across the board) raises and even those are only in the sub 5% range. So, if somebody would please post the names of those companies in the valley that are offering the 20% increases needed to pull the average up to 6% it would be much apprecia

      • Are those net salaries or salaries + medical + bonuses + etc.?

        I don't think people getting new jobs, today, are often seeing $70K+ as just the wage, unless they are contractors and also have to incur self-employment taxes and business expenses.

        This is why I hate salary surveys. They never really sort out what the readers need to know, and many readers are just left feeling inferior.

    • I'd like to see just how poorly I rate (corrected for crappy South East Virginia wages, of course). Let me put it this way: I've seen the articles listing the average starting salary for a new college graduate; and, I want to know where I went wrong...

      I think you answered your own question. If you want the good salary you have to move to a location where people actually get paid decent money. Be careful though, that you avoid places with high cost of living in your search. I found Texas is a sweet sp

  • The most underpaid were also too psychotically busy to answer the survey...

    Or was it done on Slashdot?

  • How does your salary stack up in the post-crash economy?

    Is this a trick question? How would I know how my salary stacks up if I'm not entitled to a copy of the report?

  • Why is it always about the money? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:11AM (#6920323) Homepage Journal

    I know many people that make some decent coin but hate their jobs. I make a nice salary and love my job. I wouldn't consider leaving (maybe for a good 1/3 increase in the cash and the same freedoms I have here).

    The survey should ask more than just income: the real question is: are you happy at your job and content with your income?
    • How rude. How dare you enjoy your work and get a decent wage for it!
    • >I make a nice salary and love my job That's what well paid employees say. Me, I'd shovel manure for an extra $2 an hour.
    • Because I have a family to support and bills to pay; and, with my current job I'm barely making it.

      Yes I was layed off last year. I was lucky enough to find another job, but at a lower salary...

    • my advice... (Score:3, Informative)

      by *weasel ( 174362 )
      if you enjoy your job, and the money is competitive: DO NOT LEAVE.

      even for more cash.
      because you will find that more cash means that people who are making that much dough normally are not biting. big cash is indicative of a bad work atmosphere, high turnover, or terrible products/tools/requirements.

      that's why the people who demand the highest prices tend to work contract. because the companies that have to pay that much for the work, you don't want to be with over the long term.
      • big cash is indicative of a bad work atmosphere, high turnover, or terrible products/tools/requirements.

        Or of a successful company with a good work ethic, healthy office environment and smart management. You take on good people, do well as a result, and consequently can afford to pay a good wage and take on more good people as you grow. However, I suspect that the "smart management" thing makes these a minority of the companies advertising high salaries...

    • Really I am, I started life in the commercial world, then moved over to the military engineering side for many years. I loved the challenge of military projects. Just too cool to be working on submarines and torpedos and what not, esp surrounded by a bunch of like-minded, introverted, sometimes-off-the-wall engineer types. Amazingly better and more thought enhancing than the commercial side of things, which I would never go back to. But then I left that for public education several years ago and I would

  • Alternative link to survey (Score:5, Informative)

    by while(true) ( 626738 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:14AM (#6920344)
    Can also be downloaded from SANS here [sans.org].

  • Short summary (Score:5, Informative)

    by while(true) ( 626738 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:19AM (#6920371)
    "Despite economic coldrums, the average of all the salary changes (including the negative ones) for 2002 came across full-time workers worldwide was plus 8.15% when calculated for annulized salaries. Fully 1,810 respondents (24.03%) saw no salary change or reduced their salary. Of the 54.54% who increased their salaries 0-30% the mean increase was 8.88%"

  • salary (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    i catch my own fish and grow my own vegees... and for net access, i got wifi... and i live in a card board box rent free under a bridge

    fuck salary

  • Slashdot. (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:22AM (#6920401)
    The very finest in unavailable information.
  • Debating if I should quit right now or not but the page won't load!!! I just want to go back to bed!

    The company I work for just handed out 0-7% raises with an average of 3%... I am seriously considering quitting and collecting unemployment, at least through winter providing we get snow.
    • Definitely quit. You're being treated completely unfairly. In fact, e-mail me the name of your company and the name of your immediate supervisor and I'll send him a stern e-mail explaining that his employees are unhappy due to his mismanagement. I'll attach my resume and cover letter so that he has an idea of how well off other workers in the world are. Yeah. That's the ticket.

  • Survey is /.'d, but I need to post anyway. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jeaster ( 600452 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:28AM (#6920446)
    I work for a rather large unicolor octo-barred-logo company. Our salary reviews come once a year, in April, with little chance of a raise in between them. This year they handed down a new policy. Part 1: All employee's below a certain band, err, salary range, and who are performing at at least the "I have no reason to fire you" performance rating, get a raise. A 3% raise, but a raise none the less. Part 2: The "variable" bonus which is counted as part of our salary, is now cut in half. This "variable" bonus by the way, has gone down each and every year I have been with this company. Now instead of top performers getting somewhere between 12.5% and 16%, I believe 6.5% is going to be the best you can do. Part 3: To save money this year, all pay increases, which normally take effect May 1, will not take effect until July. I was one of the 'lucky' ones. I got a Band, err, salary range increase, which usually guarantees a better raise. Not this time. All told, if I am a top performer (not handed out too often) with my variable bonus, I will be making slightly less than the bottom figure on my new pay scale. Great. Makes the frequent 80 hour weeks (no overtime pay) Sooooooo worth it. I do however, understand that I am in fact lucky to have a job to bitch about. I am lucky I am not one of my contracter coworkers whose pay has been cut multiple times over the last year, and get two weeks off, without pay. I also understand that what makes some of this possible is also the same reason I can't spell the name of any internal help desk agent I have to call, or understand half of what they are saying. I truly dread seeing this Salary Survey.....I am afraid once I see the numbers, my Red Swingline(tm) and I will have to take action. Good Luck to us all, thanks for the forum to get this out. J.

    • Re:Survey is /.'d, but I need to post anyway. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:50AM (#6920635)
      A 3% raise, but a raise none the less. Part 2: The "variable" bonus which is counted as part of our salary, is now cut in half. This "variable" bonus by the way, has gone down each and every year I have been with this company. Now instead of top performers getting somewhere between 12.5% and 16%, I believe 6.5% is going to be the best you can do. Part 3: To save money this year, all pay increases, which normally take effect May 1, will not take effect until July.

      Be glad you are getting a raise. As a state employee (who is quite thankful to have a job and not have been laid of in June) I am looking at a possible 1.5% *decrease* in wages 12/31/2003 *and* 12/31/2004 (that's a 3% decrease) with no COL increase (was supposed to get that 7/1/2003). I am looking at decreased benefits, no raises, no chance for promotion, and possibly no pay while they go on strike (which will accomplish little if anything).

      The Bush Administration is trying to make changes to the law to stop OT pay all together for most workers and instead let the employer "repay" you by giving you time off at THEIR conveinience. Interesting.

      Again, while I am thankful that I have a job, I am NOT happy that I have to take pay cuts, lose benefits (my low hourly wage was supposed to be offset by great benefits), and worry that I will lose a month's pay as I am forced to go on a strike I am uninterested in going on.

      Please don't complain when you actually are making more money each year. Please.

      • BS (Score:4, Insightful)

        by gfxguy ( 98788 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @10:09AM (#6920808)
        Please don't complain when you actually are making more money each year. Please.


        I'm sorry, I really am, but just because there are people getting screwed worse doesn't mean that those of us who aren't getting screwed as bad can't complain. If that were the case, then no one posting here has any right to complain about anything at all.

        Put it in perspective - please don't complain when you actually have a job, a roof over your head, a computer... you have a lot more than most of the population in the world.

        So please don't complain that people are complaining - while you may have more to complain about, it doesn't mean they don't have a right to complain, too.
      • The Bush Administration is trying to make changes to the law to stop OT pay all together for most workers and instead let the employer "repay" you by giving you time off at THEIR conveinience. Interesting

        I just went through a re-org where my functionality fell under a department at a different, larger location within the company. At this location, no one gets overtime. If they put in more than 40 hours, they get the time off you speak of. My new boss sat down with me to talk about it.

        I simply pointed

        • I simply pointed out that if we started this policy Jan 1 2004 and I worked about the same amount of hours that I did this year, he would have to give me October through December off. He quickly decided that paying for OT would be fine.

          I would have not done the math for him, and taken the time off.

          I still remember when my dad got 'comp time' which meant that if he worked an extra 10 hours one week (50 hrs) then he'd have to get 15 hours off (time and a half). Oh, no more (at least that's not how it work
    • As a twice-former employee of said horizontally shredded firm (I quit once and later got laid off) I feel your pain. I quit when I was passed over for a band change for 2 years in a row. After 2.5 years with "Steven & the Interns"'s company I returned to Company-of-the-Acronym-that-must-not-be-named maxing out a position 2 bands higher. 4 months later, review time. My new boss managed to give me a 5% raise. Whoo! The following year I got another 5% raise and talk of my future promotion to Senior. Wh

  • Job Futures (Score:5, Informative)

    by IIRCAFAIKIANAL ( 572786 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:33AM (#6920489) Journal
    is a good site for work info in Canada, including salary and employment statistics.

    Job Futures [jobfutures.ca]
    • Thanks for the great link. Now I know that I'm being paid $8,000 less than the average person in my trade [jobfutures.ca]. And I am definitely an above average developer. I think its time to ask for a raise.
    • Since the parent is related to Canada, I'll post this question that came to mind reading this thread ... I live in Canada, and there are laws here regarding overtime. Both about being able to choose working it, and minimum overtime wages. Is there no such laws in the States? Like, can a company tether you to their desk with little or no compensation other than your normal rate?

      Hell, I get overtime working at my job [canadiantire.ca], and it's just a hair above minimum wage.

  • Vacation days (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Malc ( 1751 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:37AM (#6920524)
    So Americans have to work 20+ years with a company to get the standard holiday allowance for a European in their first year on the job. Americans who change jobs won't on average ever reach that level. I wonder how worker happiness compares between the two continents - and no, I don't give a fig about where the businesses are more profitable, that doesn't equate to happiness.

    • Re:Vacation days (Score:2, Informative)

      by zasos ( 688522 )
      My guess - worker/consumer/citezen/human happiness is lower in the US...
      on the other hand, if 250 mill. people work 2 weeks more than anywere in the world, the country should firmly stay ahead of its competitors... and noone gives a f*ck about worker happiness if the head of non-for-profit organization makes $150mill because of the extra 2 weeks that the shmucks put in...

    • Re:Vacation days (Score:2, Insightful)

      by stratjakt ( 596332 )
      Worker happiness is about liking your job. I have about a month of vacation time racked up, but I don't plan on taking it any time soon, and wouldnt think of taking it all at once.

      I like my job, and I'd much rather be here writing code than sitting at home eating cheerios.

      • Re:Vacation days (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Malc ( 1751 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @10:09AM (#6920812)
        When I said worker happiness, I wasn't just refer to being happy on the job. I was referring to life in general. When I said worker, I meant a person who workd for somebody else and doesn't own their own business. Do you work to live, or live to work? I'm happiest when work enables me to have a good life. Insufficient vacation time makes it harder to relax or have a good life. Even if I enjoy my job, time spent with my wife, my friends, doing what I want to do, travelling, etc makes me far happier. How many people do you know that don't have sex very often because they're too tired from working their jobs? This is one of commonest reasons for poor sex lives in marriages in N. America. Of course, things can be taken to the other extreme (and I don't agree with extremes), like in France [bbc.co.uk].
      • I like my job, and I'd much rather be here writing code than sitting at home eating cheerios.

        When I think of vacation, eating cheerios at home isn't what I have in mind. More like skiing at 60kph for a week in a row. Hmmm, vacation

    • Re:Vacation days (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ojQj ( 657924 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:54AM (#6920666)
      I'm an American working in Germany. I've been at the company 3 years. I get 29 days of vacation a year, but my after tax, after health insurance net is about half of what I figure it would be in the States. Clothes, cars, and apartments are also all more expensive in Germany. Food is less expensive. My health care is more expensive and of a lower quality here than it would be in the states. On the other hand I get access to good public transportation, the streets are clean and in good condition. Violent crime rates are also low.

      Worker happiness doesn't vary in response to one variable alone.

      That being said, I really do enjoy my 29 days of vacation, and I can live reasonably comfortably on my pay.

      • Re:Vacation days (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Wait, wait, wait...medical care is of *lesser* quality and food is *cheaper*?

        Last time I saw a German physician, it took me about twenty minutes from check-in to a prescription for antibiotics. In the 'States with HMOs, I have to force any infections to give a two-month notice, because that's the average wait time with my medical group (not kidding), and I think even the ER is backed up for about a month (kidding, but not by much). I don't know a single German who worked in 'Mericka who was happier with

        • Re:Vacation days (Score:4, Interesting)

          by RzUpAnmsCwrds ( 262647 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @12:54PM (#6922485)
          "In the 'States with HMOs"

          Yes, HMOs are awful, but remember, "health insurance" doesn't necessarily mean "HMO". With my plan (PacifiCare), I can visit any doctor who takes my insurance (most) and get diagnosed and treated in about 20 minutes. It's a $10 fee to visit any doctor, which isn't bad a all.

          "I don't know a single German who worked in 'Mericka who was happier with the so-called 'healthcare system' when it was compared to their native Deutschland."

          Despite your slang, I must disagree. I have a German coworker who is thrilled by the US healthcare system. Case in point: he was held up two hours at the hospital just to see a doctor (this was around 1:00 and he had a stomach bug). In the US, he got the same bug (around 2:00). He simply went to the nearest doctor's office (5 minutes from his house), got diagnosed in about 20 minutes, and walked next door to the 24 hour pharmacy to get his prescription. YMMV, but healthcare in the US can range from awful to excellent (depending on your health insurance).

          Is it a perfect system? Absolutely not. It leaves far too many people without adequete healthcare.

          "Food was more expensive, but that's because most of it is organically grown, and because German consumers are by-and-large willing to pay fair trade prices for their groceries, unlike most of their brethren in the 'States."

          We have stores in the US that sell nothing but fair trade organic products. "Wild Oats Market" built their business on this. But we also have Super Wal-Mart. Super Wal-Mart makes the other food stores look expensive.

          "effective police[2]"
          The police are surprisingly effective in the US. The problem is not enforcement of the law, it's that 18,000 people a year are willing to kill others. When you have such a violent society, it's nearly impossible to prevent crime. It's not the cops that are the problem, it's the people.

          "eighteen months[1] unemployment"

          Many corporations in the US give 12 to 18 months severence pay. Plus there is governmental unemployment aid, so long as you are "looking" for a job.

          "good transportation"

          Transportation in major US cities is surprisingly good. In DC, the Metro is efficent and fast. The NY MTA system is older, but it works fine. The major thing we lack is inter-city transportaion by rail. You can travel by rail, especially in the east, but the trains only go about 80 miles/hour. Far from the high-speed trains in Europe. However, people forget the sheer size of the US. Even at 160 miles per hour, with no stops, it would take 18+ hours to travel from New York to Los Angeles. Airplanes can do it faster and cheaper.

    • Re:Vacation days (Score:4, Informative)

      by paitre ( 32242 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:55AM (#6920684) Journal
      I get 12 sick days, 22 vacation days, 2 floating holidays plus 11 regular holidays.
      I had 15 personal days plus 9 holidays at my last job (and yes, that -is- part of why i left it).

      I'd say that most Americans need to put between 5 and 10 years into a position to get to 4 weeks vacation. That's a far cry from 20+ and never reaching it.

      Most Americans don't change jobs nearly as often as us tech geeks, either :)

    • Amen (Score:5, Interesting)

      by InterruptDescriptorT ( 531083 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:59AM (#6920726) Homepage
      I would, right now without hesitation, take a 15% pay cut for five weeks' vacation a year.

      What is so funny to me is the huge emphasis that the government and pressure groups put on the notion of 'family' here in the US, and yet at the same time don't want to give workers the rights to rear their children (in opposing the Family Leave Act), nor want to give them enough time off to actually spend time with them.

      The average American worker works an obscene amount of hours. I am 100% positive this does not stem from any sort of American 'work ethic', but rather from the fact that you have to be seen as working more than your co-worker in order not only to get ahead, but to simply keep your job. The high levels of stress that follows are what lead to domestic problems like drug abuse, alcoholism and violence.

      The idea of four weeks' vacation would never fly here, because greedy CEOs and stockholders don't want to see their all-precious profits possibly drop. But imagine the long-term benefits: Lower health care costs (rested workers are less stressed; less stressed workers are healthier), more motivated employees, and a happier populace with spare time to spend money vacationing.

      It's a win-win situation, but I'll never see it in my lifetime. I'm a Canadian living in the US, and I've been thinking about using my right of return privileges (my grandfather was a UK citizen) to go to the UK and work for a few years. Sounds like, as usual, the Europeans don't have their heads up their asses like in this country.

      • Re:Amen (Score:3, Informative)

        by Malc ( 1751 )
        "I've been thinking about using my right of return privileges (my grandfather was a UK citizen) to go to the UK and work for a few years."

        Do you have British citizenship yourself? Your eligibility depends upon your father or mother's status. If they were born in the UK, then you probably qualify. If they weren't then they can't pass the right on to you. Check out the Home Office's web site [homeoffice.gov.uk] - I think there are two classes of citizenship: otherwise than by descent (their citizenship can inherited by the
        • Do you have British citizenship yourself? Your eligibility depends upon your father or mother's status.

          I don't have British citizenship myself, since my parents were both born in Canada. However, I remember reading that Commonwealth citizens who can show that they had at least one grandparent with UK citizenship can apply for something called the 'right of return', which allowed for a UK work visa for up to four years. I believe this right grants nothing more than that. At the very least, it would be

          • Re:Amen (Score:2)

            by Malc ( 1751 )
            "Then again, here I am talking about immigration when I juse waded through 3 1/2 years of INS bureaucracy to obtain permanent residency here--what kind of fool must I be to want to go through something like that again? :-)"

            I can understand that. My wife wanted to move the UK a couple of years back, but I said no way, not until I get my Canadian citizenship. After the costs, time and person energy put in to getting Canadian permanent residency I didn't want to leave and thus probably have the status revo

        • Re:Amen (Score:2)

          by Malc ( 1751 )
          "Somebody who posted a reply to something I wrote on /. recently has done this move from the US to London, and you might find his blog interesting."

          If forgot the quote in the href: http://www.colingregorypalmer.net/ [colingregorypalmer.net]

  • Fine, thank you (Score:4, Funny)

    by Seahawk ( 70898 ) <tts@nOsPAm.image.dk> on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:38AM (#6920532)
    My economy is fine, I jsut earned $12500 by suing Registar.com... ;o)

  • For People in the U.S. (Score:5, Informative)

    by gfxguy ( 98788 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:39AM (#6920540)
    Try this [datamasters.com] one.

  • Pardon my rant... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ArmenTanzarian ( 210418 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:39AM (#6920543) Homepage Journal
    but all these surveys do is give people false impressions of worth. You could glean from this thing that you should be making 70k with a bachelors degree or that being a woman with the same experience as I have you're worth 10k more than I am.

    A young woman at my last job got fired because she went in to demand higher pay after she got her masters in accordance with one of these surveys. She worked for the company for the whole time and they paid for her education, but she decided to hop up the ladder and start emailing stats like this to the VP's. I mean really, what loaded sysadmin women fill these things out and do they need a developer and/or boyfriend!?!

  • Execs getting better (Score:3, Informative)

    by benpeter ( 699832 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:50AM (#6920631)
    Just read in Tuesday's Australian Financial Review that Executive salaries were still high (and growing) in the IT sector, comparable to other industry sectors, but the rest of the IT workforce was not enjoying the same percentage increase and ridiculous high salaries.
  • what??? you mean i've been wasting my time here!!!!

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @09:55AM (#6920678)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • My all time favourite salary survey conclusion (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @10:02AM (#6920747) Homepage
    At the first job I had, the technical department had a number of issues with the management there, not least of these was salary.

    Eventually, management's answer was presented to us in a meeting. They explained that, after surveying the market, they were paying us correctly. The said that the reason we could see the higher figures elsewhere was because everyone else in the world was paying too highly...

    Oh, and they also claimed that we couldn't actually get these figures we read. My response was "empirical studies suggest otherwise", which got a bit of a look. I resigned within two weeks, and another guy I was at the meeting with resigned the next day.

    Cheers,
    Ian

  • Work Ethics (Score:4, Interesting)

    by clickety6 ( 141178 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @10:03AM (#6920757)

    Americans Live To Work
    Europeans Work To Live

    How else do you explain American vacation allowances? I recall seeing figures that showed productivity in American companies wasn't marekedly higher than their European equivalents, despite their longer hours. have to see if I cna track it down on Google.

    • Yeah, admittedly I'm doing well, but I'm 25, been in my second job 6 months and I get 30 days holiday, 8 days public holidays + 10 days paid sick pay.

      I'm in the UK which typically does worse than the rest of europe - if I was in France I'd work 5 hours / week less too.

    • Re:Work Ethics (Score:2, Interesting)

      by gfxguy ( 98788 )
      The problem is the perspective you take on it. The employee/employer relationship should be considered a private contract between the two, the government ought not stick their nose where it doesn't belong.

      Someone mentioned they'd take a 15% pay cut to get more vacation time - that should be something negotiated with your employer, not a government mandate.

      As for me, after 5 years I was getting 23 days of paid time off per year. Next year will mark my 10th anniversary and I will get an additional 5. Tha

  • Don't understand numbers (Score:3, Insightful)

    by DoctorNathaniel ( 459436 ) <nathaniel...tagg@@@gmail...com> on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @10:23AM (#6920956) Homepage
    This may be nitpicking, I look at something like this and immediately distrust it: they quote percentages to four significant figures, yet they only had 10000 respondents. Anyone who understands sampling errors knows that 10k data points means approximately 1% error on any number you measure with them.. possibly much less.

    And it's hard to read with all them number things.

  • Is it just me? or do these numbers seem odd (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Kevin Stevens ( 227724 ) <kevstev&gmail,com> on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @10:25AM (#6920969)
    Maybe I am just getting F'ed... but I am in the 1-2 years experience range, and I know hardly anyone (programmers included) in the IT field who are making 50k a year (the average reported in the survey is (50,558 for 0-1 year guys w/ a bachelor), and certainly not any sysadmins at all- and thats in the NY metro area, where the costs of living (and thus salaries) are quite high. The fact that those in the 2 year range see a 5k drop in average salaries really makes me wonder if they had enough of a random sample, and a large enough sample altogether. Similarly, when I see average raises in certain metro areas being 87.5%, I think there is something significantly flawed in this survey to actually use it for anything meaningful. I get the feeling this survey attracted types who wanted to show off their earnings, or raises. I mean how can the group of 5-9 years guys get 6.8% average raises, while guys w/ 10-14 years experiene recieved a whopping 22.6% increase, yet their elder 15-19 group also only recieved 6.9% raises. I just cant see how this could happen to the actual group overall. Another glaring hole- guys with 1-2 years experience falling into the ambiguously defined 'level 4' (4 being highest) group. That many people came out of school and rose to CTO in a year? It is interesting, but to use this as a basis for actual salary comparison doesnt seem right. It seems even less scientific than a slashdot poll to me.
  • Like my savings account, it's been slashdotted.

  • Working Too Hard? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Accord MT ( 542922 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @10:31AM (#6921041)
    WORKING TOO HARD?

    Ten hour days? No vacation?

    Training your replacement in your company's new Bangalore office???

    STOP!

    How would you like to get out of that rat race? I have stumbled on a secret way to free yourself from the wage slavery and mind burn-out you are suffering at your current job. And I'm giving the secret away for FREE!

    Let me tell you something, folks. I used to be a lot like you. I was working for a company that insisted on pushing their employees over the edge. What I found was, most workers not only took it, but gladly bent over and rubbed in the vaseline! These folks never understood the secret that I am about to reveal to you absolutely FREE!

    So here it is! Follow this simple four step process to dislodge yourself from corporate America once and for all:

    1. Quit your job!!! The most obvious step is the step that is the most inconceivable to the average American worker. Every day at your job is living hell. You dread going to your job every morning. Your job is the source of all your frustration and grief. QUIT! It's that easy. QUIT! When I realized I was working for a company that couldn't give a shit about me and was trying every day to find ways of milking more work out of me, I just up and left... It was such a breath of fresh air. Get a part-time job bartending or doing manual labor while you accomplish the rest of the steps...

    2. Kill your monthly expenses!!! Pay off those high-interest credit cards! Only spend with them what you can pay off in full every month. Most of my former co-workers were so buckled under credit card debt but they were happy to keep spending more, because all they ever payed was the monthly minimum. They're going to be in for a surprise in three or four years. Sell the shit that drains your wallet! That Lexus SUV sitting there in your garage? Sell it immediately and buy a 5 year old Honda with cash. Let me tell you you won't miss that $600/mo payment! Expensive home or apartment in the city? Get out of that lease or sell it, and buy a nice humble townhouse in the suburbs. You might not be able to get rid of this "monthly" but it sure feels nice taking $500/mo or so out of it. Health club contract? Multiple cell phones/pagers? Expensive Internet connection?? You guessed it! Get them out of your life. Live SIMPLY. Not only is it cheaper, but you don't feel like such a consumer whore every month when you pay the bills!!

    3. Stop buying so much shit! Al Greenspan says consumer spending is good for the economy, but who is he kidding? It's only good for the corporate execs you are currently freeing yourself from. Buy generics if you have to buy at all. Spend your money not on gadgets and trinkets but on things that fulfill your life--travel, a humble home that's yours and not the bank's, that little restarant you were always wanting to start up--whatever is your thing.

    4. Do hourly contract work when you need money, and relax when you don't. Look at your new budget. Hell you can probably contract at HALF of what you were making before, and have plenty of time for what is important in your life.

    Follow this four step process and rid your life of the work-consume rat race!

    I can't emphasize it enough. That first step is crucial. QUIT THAT JOB NOW. QUIT QUIT QUIT QUIT QUIT QUIT QUIT. Or, even better, get fired and collect unemployment! You've been paying for unemployment your whole life, so take a little for yourself! Make a promise to yourself: I will quit by next Thursday. I will quit after the next paycheck. And DO IT! Don't go updating your resume, looking for another sinking ship to jump to. JUST GET OUT OF THAT HELL HOLE OF A JOB RIGHT NOW!

    Today is a lot better for me than it was two years ago, and I make LESS than what I used to! I work hourly, doing contract work for whoever needs a little programming. When I want

    • I agree, you people should all quit, that way, there'll be a job for me out there. Suckers!
    • Only one problem with step 1 (in the US) - health care. If I quit my job, I have no access to healthcare, and with a "pre-existing condition" that requires treatment, thats not an option for me. I'm sure others have reasons they cannot just quit as well - kids in college, etc. Sometimes, you do what you have to do. Of course, lowering monthly expenses is always a good idea. Fortunately, I'm not being worked to death in my current job, so not being able to just quit is not an issue.
    • That's all really good, sound fiscal advice. But, because of the way it is laid out, with the numbered lists, the bold text and the tone, I kept looking for the "GET A BIGGER PENIS NOW!!!!!" paragraph. :)
    • Does any one else feel the urge to yell "Beefcake! Beefcake!"

      On the other hand, aside from the quit-your-job part, I agree completely -- in the past two weeks, I've paid off most of my debt, with a plan to get rid of the rest over the next 12 months. I'm looking at savings of over $1,000 a month. It feels good!

    • Re:Working Too Hard? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by crazyphilman ( 609923 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @12:05PM (#6922097) Journal
      Wow... you took a relatively interesting premise and went kinda loopy with it. That's cool, though, I'm hip... But let me voice my take on this idea:

      First of all, DON'T quit your job. You need a job. But do try and find a less stressful job with reasonable (i.e. 9-5, 40h/wk) working hours. All you need vis-a-vis benefits is health insurance, really, anything else is gravy. Preferably, take a job where there's not too much risk of physical injury and there aren't many environmental hazards. Civil service is pretty cool (go county or state).

      Second, pay off all your debts but keep one small credit card around "just in case", either a 500.00 or a 1000.00 card. Maybe have a department store card in case you have to pick up some clothes in a hurry (you never know what could happen). But don't USE the cards unless you need to, and pay them off asap.

      Third, yes, live simply but FOR THE LOVE OF GOD don't drop your internet connection!!! I pay 112/month for internet and cable, and I love it. It keeps me connected and informed, and I wouldn't want to live without it. Another tip is, keep the cell phone and drop the land-line. Cell phones are more useful and you usually get free long distance. It's a better deal.

      Grocery shop instead of eating out, etc, etc, don't get sucked into the whole consumerist thing, it'll bleed you dry, ignore Greenspan, he's there for corporations, not you... Um... That's about it, I guess.

      Basically, live frugally, spend minimally, take it easy and don't wear yourself out. That's my point of view...


    • +6, Insightful.

      It may be frightening, but the recipe above is just what many many people need to reinvigorate their routine miserable lives of crushing idealism. What are you living for, really?

      Don't forget that the median income in the USA is on the order of $40K/year. People raise families on this money! You don't need a Lexus, nor three cell phones, nor a computer in every room, nor a new PDA every year, nor premium cable, nor a $600 lawnmower. The most important thing is simply to find a modest ho

    • I'm tempted to say something flippant, like "but I don't want to stop consuming, dammit." And there's some truth to that. But your point is well-taken... there are just caveats. If you're good enough at both the actual work you want to do and at selling yourself, you can cut your ties to the working life. And if you're in the right area. Those are bigger "ifs" than you're making them out to be.

      Through an odd chain of events, I ended up moving to Silicon Valley in November of last year; I'm employed in lar

  • fed employes get 4.1% raise today (Score:3, Informative)

    by peter303 ( 12292 ) on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @10:50AM (#6921219)
    Sounds like one of the few sectors where pay is actually increasing. State and local gove worksers being cut. Must be nice to work for an organization where you can print money at will.
  • ...and thus it does not truly apply to most Slashdotters.

    Think about this: thanks to the baby boom, the majority of the people in the industry are over 40 and making bank because the companies don't want them to retire yet, or even worse move on to a competitor with all that built-up knowledge.

    This, of course, skews your "average", because your "average respondent" has 15 years of experience and valuable knowledge.

    Whereas, most Slashdot members have under 10 years experience, in fact I'd wager most have

  • Slashdotted (Score:3, Funny)

    by SlightlyMadman ( 161529 ) <slightlymadman AT slightlymad DOT net> on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @12:05PM (#6922100) Homepage
    The site's slashdotted, here's a summary:


    Everyone's making more than you.

  • More changes (Score:3, Interesting)

    by r_j_prahad ( 309298 ) <r_j_prahad@@@hotmail...com> on Wednesday September 10, 2003 @12:33PM (#6922385)
    I used to be a Unix sysadmin and took a five year hiatus, it being necessary to my mental health. So last month I decided to get looking and went to two interviews. What a disappointment they were, the duties were more for senior operator. Point and click, simple, repetetive tasks. The managers at both businesses were very rude, elitist, maybe even racist. I was reminded of mainframe positions we used to derisively call "tape apes" in the olden days.

    So even though I miss the money, I won't be going back to sysadminning. I will stay where I am and enjoy my pagerless weekends.

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