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MPAA Calls for Ban on Screeners 442

neoThoth writes "The MPAA is calling for a ban on all screeners for awards ceremonies. They state piracy as the rationale for killing of this tradition of the industry. It's interesting how this is never mentioned in their cries for tougher piracy laws. It's own members are the main source of piracy. 'The Directors, Writers and Screen Actors Guild all get screeners, as does the Golden Globe-selecting Hollywood Foreign Press Association and various critics' groups.'" Remember, movie piracy doesn't just hurt actors, but also camera operators, key grips, makeup artists, and costumers.
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MPAA Calls for Ban on Screeners

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  • Easier solution (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Night Goat ( 18437 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:01PM (#7072202) Homepage Journal
    I don't see why the MPAA just doesn't make slight, but easily noticeable differences between each screener. Maybe have a numeric code flash quickly onto the screen occasionally. Like what they do if there's a spy but they don't know who, they give out fake information and see which fake info the enemy acts on. If a certain coded screener gets pirated, then the MPAA knows who to send the lawsuit to.
    I can't see David Letterman actually going and PAYING to see all the crap movies that his guests make!
  • Re:Easier solution (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Neph ( 5010 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:09PM (#7072250) Homepage

    Something like that might work, but not quite as obvious as what you're describing -- the hypothetical pirate would merely have to edit the movie by blacking out the code, and poof, it's untraceable again.

    However, I could see something subtler -- some sort of complex steganography, fractional-second differences in the length of certain scenes (credit roll time?) etc. etc. Could be done...

  • Or maybe (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:09PM (#7072253)

    crappy leaked watermarked screeners add hype to a film making the desire and street buzz even greater with hundreds of kids promoting it and spreading good words making the film a "must see"

    or

    of course they might oppose it if the movie sucks as they need to rip off /decieve the public to try and reclaim the money they pissed away paying the likes of J-lo and other shite actors 15million $ for 20min of crappy dialog that even a TV serial company would laugh at, are some actors worth 1000's of dollars a second while the Grip/soundman/operators get 200$ a DAY if they are lucky

  • by k98sven ( 324383 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:10PM (#7072264) Journal
    I mean, does anyone really give a damn about the Oscars?

    It's the industry celebrating itself in a annual act of masturbation on national TV.

    If you disagree, please explain why Kevin Costner has a "Best Director" award but not Stanley Kubrick, Alfred Hitchcock or Akira Kurosawa?

  • Re:Easier solution (Score:3, Interesting)

    by EvanED ( 569694 ) <{evaned} {at} {gmail.com}> on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:15PM (#7072287)
    The credit roll time could be a very possible option; with other things you take the chance of losing the stenography with the compression.
  • Re:Easier solution (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:19PM (#7072324)
    ..or, people just digitally rip the tape and blur out the unique number when it pops onto the screen?

    Or, just cut the credits?

    Really now, any solution has to be so complex that it either renders the movie unwatchable, is defeated easily digitally, or doesn't work.
  • by Whomever ( 35291 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:19PM (#7072325) Homepage
    Doesn't selling DVDs and videos contribute to piracy as well? I mean, if the pirates couldn't buy the DVDs or videos in the first place, it would be harder to copy them. I think they should ban the sale of DVDs ;) And while their at it, the practice of renting them contributes to a ton of piracy. Therefore, Blockbuster and it's smaller competitors should be banned from renting DVDs or videos to consumers.
  • Not true (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 1+(smarterThanYou) ( 539258 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:22PM (#7072338) Homepage
    Remember, movie piracy doesn't just hurt actors, but also camera operators, key grips, makeup artists, and costumers. Actually based on how the movie industry operates...these people were all compensated before the release of the movie. They work in a union and most of them don't do anything on the set anyways....they are just the backup in case the head guy takes an extra coffee break. The only people really getting screwed are the ones that distribute and produce the movies. Distributors make a good percentage of theater profits, having to take care of the end of producing additional prints of the film and then securing contracts with theaters to show them. Producers also make a percentage of ticket sales, but also make a percentage on every DVD/VHS/Any-Future-Media purchase. Theaters make a very small percentage, if at all, and obviously make their money off the concessions. Distributors and Theaters will re-negotiate their deals based on how the movie does during the opening weekend. What is also BS is that typically more than half of the proceeds from movie tickets is made on opening weekend. So in the time it would take a person to video tape it and distribute it, if this person isn't an insider at the movie theater or at the studio/distribution house, it would only affect subsequent weekends which are much less important. Long story short, it doesn't affect any of those people, just the people who are taking a percentage of the profits from DVD sales, i.e. Production Company, Distribution Company, Investors, (sometimes actors).
  • Re:Not only actors? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by p00ya ( 579445 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:28PM (#7072376) Homepage
    Aren't only high-profile actors/diretors/etc rewarded a percentage of the movie income, while all the others receive the same no matter what?
    but piracing will make movies spend less money
    Some (overly?)simple economics:

    people pirating movies makes it harder for the producers to earn money (less revenue because people aren't paying to watch the movies). So in order to retain their profits, they must cut costs. One of the ways they can do this is to pay their employees (actors and non-actors) less. If piracy is affecting the industry as a whole, then since there are no higher paying jobs to go to (within the industry), these employees are going to have to accept lower wages.


    Perhaps the current trends (to spend more money on better effects etc) are actually reflective of a need to get audiences to come to theatres (to get a better experience than they'd get with their home 5.1 surround and 17" monitor).

  • by Joe Tie. ( 567096 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:29PM (#7072381)
    You know what bugs me? When people refer to a giant slashdot collective, as if everyone here thought the same things about every issue. Did you ever thing that perhaps it could have been different people posting whose opinion you're remembering, or even that you could simply be remembering the slant you want to remember from discussions with multiple viewpoints?
  • Re:Easier solution (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:40PM (#7072452)
    I am a pirate. I've seen steganography in action, admittedly in a different field, but I've seen it, and have the desire to obviously protect the privacy of my sources at all costs, as have virtually all groups. I have little experience of movie piracy directly, but I know a few people and I know exactly how they'd handle this.

    Always get more than one source. Compare. More than two would be good too. This goes double if it's an analog source, because you could work between them and get a better quality.

    Any per-source steganography will be noticed, and any steganography that wouldn't be noticed by multiple sources wouldn't narrow down the source hunt.

    Additionally, you need to be aware that some sources are BEFORE any such steganography would be added. Ever considered the possibility that the guys who'd put the steganography in are, in fact, the guys who work as group and pro sources, getting paid more for that than their day job?

    Besides, this will merely lead to a shift from DVD screeners to the even more incredible phenomenon of the telecine. Done correctly, this can be better than retail DVD quality in some cases. Once a film is out there are thousand of copies of it. Two or three digitally sampled masters from actual analog film reels, and you could remove film grain as well as steganography, leading to better compression. All you need is unrestricted access to a couple of movie theaters. I wouldn't be surprised to learn of groups whose members not only work in movie theaters as projectionists, but actually fucking own them.

    The movie industry doesn't have much to fear from piracy compared to the music industry. They aren't quite as jaded, they aren't quite as crap, they don't have quite as much control as they think they have, and much more importantly they really aren't anywhere near as overpriced. And there is significant value added in seeing a good projection at a cinema vs. even a really good quality telecine/DVD-rip, and they make the serious money from concessions anyway. They'll still be around, and they'll still be busy.

    Meanwhile the music industry is caught trying to do the same thing, but frankly, the problem is it just sucks. Concerts ain't so good, and are WAY overpriced, and hard to run, and irregular, and get massive rushes of people, whereas cinema screenings are small and can happen in several places at once. Music industry really doesn't have an easy way out of this. The movie industry, by comparison, has it made.

    Note that the first people to get something out will probably fail to do this. The first releasers are at very high risk, as they traditionally rush and race to be first. Most people wait for the ones with a marginally greater eye for quality and detail (Centropy et al), and those are the ones who will survive stego. Weed out the crap groups, that's what I say!
  • Re:Easier solution (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:42PM (#7072472)
    The Hulk was an unfinished movie. The SFX were unfinished and left out in some cases. It was easy to track down the source, because of which SFX hadn't been done yet. That isn't a stego technique that would work in a finished movie, but a possible example. Of course the group in question didn't give a shit about the integrity of their source, or protecting them, they just wanted to look cool and rel a workprint. That is a known risk of releasing a workprint, and EVERY group knows it, and stays well clear until the anonymity cloud is much larger and they can obtain multiple copies so they can protect their sources!
  • by Murdock037 ( 469526 ) <tristranthorn.hotmail@com> on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:44PM (#7072486)
    You're on to something, but I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding in general with a bunch of the posts.

    What the MPAA wants to stop is Oscar screeners. These are DVDs and tapes sent to Academy members of movies that are eligible for Oscars. It's a way to get somebody to see your movie, without making them go to the theater.

    (Screeners are a mixed blessing. Smaller movies benefit from them, because they are often shut out of the multiplex too quickly or may just work better on a smaller screen, such as Moulin Rouge or even The Pianist; they also serve to remind Academy members of the movies that aren't still in theaters in December and January, when the voting is done. On the other hand, home viewing dilutes the power of some movies, such as Lord of the Rings or Saving Private Ryan. Screeners are generally blamed for Shakespeare in Love winning out over Saving Private Ryan a few years ago, for the reasons I've listed.)

    The problem is this: there are politics involved. It may not be fair, for example, that Seabiscuit will be on DVD at your local Blockbuster by the end of the year, and so Academy viewers will be able to watch that at home, but not anything that was released after summer or so. That's an unfair advantage.

    And there's the question of whether or not screeners really prevent piracy anyways. A telesync is usually out before the movie's even in theaters, of course, and the selling of individual screener discs can be curtailed by putting a serial number on them and monitoring eBay.

    The MPAA is somewhat like OPEC. You've got a coalition with similar interests but conflicts within the organization, and none of the members are hesitant to bend the rules for their own gain, if they can get away with it. And Oscar is more than enough motivation.

    For some decent discussion of this, check out David Poland's Hot Button [thehotbutton.com] in the last week, particularly this column. [thehotbutton.com]
  • Re:Easier solution (Score:5, Interesting)

    by doormat ( 63648 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @12:53PM (#7072541) Homepage Journal
    Yea, they do.. its called dots... they use a series of dots in various frames throughout the movie to track where the copies come from. Of course the warez groups are on to this, and photoshop the frames that contain the dots to remove or alter them to protect their suppliers...
  • by skribe ( 26534 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @01:01PM (#7072603) Homepage
    Hitchcock never won because he was up against other 'greats': Billy Wilder (The Apartment & The Lost Weekend), John Ford (The Grapes of Wrath), Elia Kazan (On the Waterfront) and Leo McCarey (Going My Way).

    Likewise Kubrick lost out to Milos Forman (One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest); William Friedkin (French Connection); Carol Reed (Oliver); and George Cukor (My Fair Lady).

    Kurosawa lost out primarily because he was Japanese, but also because his solitary directorial nomination was up against Sydney Pollack's Out of Africa.

    Costner may have been up against supremely qualified directors (Scorsese and Coppola) but it was IMHO hardly their best work (Goodfellas and Godfather III respectively).

    To summarise, Costner had a weaker field than either Kubrick or Hitchcock. As far as Kurosawa is concerned IIRC there's only ever been one non-english language winner of Best Director/Best Film (Vita e bella, La). It sucks but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

    skribe

  • Re:Easier solution (Score:4, Interesting)

    by athorshak ( 652273 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @01:28PM (#7072764)
    Two or three digitally sampled masters from actual analog film reels, and you could remove film grain as well as steganography, leading to better compression

    while I agree with the rest of your post, you should NOT be trying to remove film grain. Grain is an intentional part of the image. Different film stocks are chosen for different films and scenes specifically for their grain structure. On film where this is obvous to even a casual viewer is Minority Report. Speilberg gave this film an intetionally overexposed and extremely grainy look. You should NEVER try to remove grain from a film image.
  • Re:Not only actors? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Minna Kirai ( 624281 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @01:46PM (#7072866)
    Or perhaps they could simply start making better movies that rely on story, acting, direction and other such old fashioned notions?

    Which reduces the need for elaborate staging and effects.
    Which reduces the amount of support staff needed for complex shots. Which brings us back to the idea of hurting "camera operators, key grips, makeup artists, and costumers".
  • by blincoln ( 592401 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @03:56PM (#7073572) Homepage Journal
    If the executives & stars didn't make so much, they wouldn't need to charge so much

    Yes, it must kill people to have to pay 15 whole dollars for a DVD, especially since the MPAA is sitting next to them with a handgun demanding that they buy as many as possible.

    Film fans should be *incredibly* happy with the prices of DVDs. Movies from a decade or two ago can generally be had for about $10. That's less than seeing a full-price show in a lot of theatres now, and yet some people expect to pay even less?

    Expecting to get media for free or cheap is (IMO) the geek equivalent of panhandling. If you are someone who gets irritated when a homeless person asks for spare change, how can you not expect the film and music industries to feel the same way when you suggest that they sell DVDs and CDs for $5 (or whatever) or that they shouldn't pursue people who bootleg them?

    At least the homeless person *might* be spending the spare change on something that's actually necessary to live, like food.
  • Re:Wait?? WAIT???!!! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by BeerSlurpy ( 185482 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @04:14PM (#7073710)
    Significant movies I remember being available from screeners/internal sources are:

    sum of all fears: leaked about 3 weeks before theater opening

    matrix: leaked two weeks before theater opening, but with some of the soundtrack music not mixed in yet- neo and trinity talk in a quiet club for example with no rob zombie in the background

    lotr:tt- perfect DVD rip released the same week as it premiered in the theaters. Had little warnings saying "for academy awards consideration only" that popped up once ever 20 minutes below the letterboxing

    spiderman- leaked on dvd same time as it came out

    hulk- everyone knows about this one

    attack of the clones- perfect dvd rip the same week it showed in theaters

    There are like a billion others I cant even remember right now. Basically 90 percent of the high quality piracy is being supplied by the movie industry itself right now. I dont see how they can justify stiffer controls on us when their left and right hand are ignorant of one another.
  • by digitalgimpus ( 468277 ) on Saturday September 27, 2003 @04:38PM (#7073843) Homepage
    I've worked with a media company, so I know their solution:

    They are starting to use a faint watermark, across the entire picture. The watermark is individual to the tape itself (a number, letter, symbol or combo).

    This way, if the tape is pirated... it's easy to trace back.

    Each tape is signed out to a particular person. That person previously signed NDA's. Now they have to sign NDA's... and there is something to ensure they don't forget about it.

    If the tape is leaked.... they know exactly who to go after. The tape's watermark will lead to the person responsible.

  • Re:Easier solution (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 28, 2003 @12:54AM (#7075693)
    umm.. there insn't any laws yet about watching pirated movies or listening to pireted songs. the criminal act is the making them availible - distributing them.

    unless they pass some other laws in the process there won't be any proscuting for it. (some staters might have these laws but not mine.)
  • Re:Easier solution (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 28, 2003 @01:39AM (#7075811)
    I agree with many of your points but this one. The movie industy has little to fear of piracy? While this is most certainly true for box office release (as no piracy can compete with a cinema experience) it most definitely hurts their post-box office DVD/VHS release sales. These sales have become as big, if not bigger in some instances than the original theatrical release. While piracy of a film may/may not hurt the actual box office release, if it were to become as rampant as music piracy it most certainly would destroy their sales of DVD's.
    No more blockbuster, no more Best Buy movie section ect...
    So yes, piracy will not destroy the film industry, much as it won't destroy the recording industry, but it will deprive some as*hole of billions of dollars and thus "MUST BE STOPPED!"

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