Memory Holes and the Internet (updated) 801
blamanj writes "As reporters and researchers depend more and more heavily on the Internet as a research tool, manipulation of the net becomes a serious problem. A recent Slashdot article discussed this in regard to the White House. Now, The Memory Hole has noticed that Time magazine has pulled an article by Bush, Sr. on why it was a bad idea to try and overthrow Saddam. How can we keep corporate America honest?" Update: 11/11 22:16 GMT by T : Declan McCullagh (former Time, Inc. employee, among other things) writes in with the non-conspiracy explanation for the change, below.
Declan writes "It is silly to claim that Bush Sr. and Scowcroft would strong-arm Time Inc. into removing an article from time.com -- when that article was an excerpt from their book that you can buy today from Amazon.com for $21.
Another explanation is more likely. And, yes, a quick search turns up a May 2003 article from Slate that debunks this rumor. It turns out that Time Inc. only had permission from the publisher to post the content for a limited time."
Archive.org (Score:4, Informative)
The Excerpt (Score:5, Informative)
Excerpt from "Why We Didn't Remove Saddam" by George Bush Sr. and Brent Scowcroft, Time (2 March 1998):
While we hoped that popular revolt or coup would topple Saddam, neither the U.S. nor the countries of the region wished to see the breakup of the Iraqi state. We were concerned about the long-term balance of power at the head of the Gulf. Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in 'mission creep,' and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under those circumstances, furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-cold war world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the U.N.'s mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasio route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome.
A matter of public record (Score:5, Informative)
The only real way to get rid of something is to pull it quickly.. leave it around and you've no chance......
Simon
Google Cache of Memory Hole (Score:4, Informative)
Easy Answer - MOD UP! (Score:1, Informative)
1) Be helpful. Inform Time Magazine to their 404 missing page.
2) Donate to The Memory Hole. [thememoryhole.org]
From the archive on web.archive.org (Score:5, Informative)
Two words: (Score:3, Informative)
READ MORE CAREFULLY (Score:2, Informative)
Also remember Robin Cook, the now former UK FM (Score:4, Informative)
What follows is a copy of his resignation speech in the House of Commons, which won applause from some backbenchers in unprecedented Commons scenes.
lexis nexis (Score:4, Informative)
As reporters and researchers depend more and more heavily on the Internet as a research tool, manipulation of the net becomes a serious problem
I don't think what Time does on their site has any real bearing on what most reporters and researchers will find. This is because most of them use lexis nexis [lexisnexis.com]. It is my understanding that lexis nexis will keep a copy of the article (I'm not sure, it costs money to use). Even if it doesn't, it will keep references to it. It will be shown to exist.
What would cause for concern is lexis nexis removing stuff.
Troll? (Score:5, Informative)
There is an excellent article in the Economist about this, unfortunately for subscribers only. Here is a pertinent quote:
A case in point is the near-total secrecy in which the Department of Homeland Security was hatched. No cabinet secretary was consulted. Nor were most senior advisers. The largest government reorganisation in half a century, involving huge numbers of civil servants and tricky questions of government relations, was decided upon by a handful of people (originally four, with aides) and without serious consultation with Congress. Did that improve the quality of decisions?
Also Senator Patrick Leahy - Concerning Iraq (Score:4, Informative)
Speech: U.S. Senator
U.S. SENATOR PATRICK LEAHY
Re:Wow... another attempt to attack the president (Score:2, Informative)
The allies pretty much admitted that Al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq before the war, but they didn't make much of a noise about that because it served their purpose to have the public believe that Al Qaeda was in Iraq to bolster support for the war.
Untrue. It is still upheld that Al Qaeda training camps existed in northern Iraq before the war. They have proof the camp was being used even 1 month before the beginning of the invasion. Secondly, Iraqi disposed commanders are now in charge of these Al Qaeda cells which are in Iraq. If Saddam had no ties with Al Qaeda, why would Iraqi officials be "leading" Al Qaeda members to attack civilians and U.S. soldiers?
As for N Korea, Bush claiming it was part of his "Axis of Evil" didn't help. NK has now seen what has happened to one third of that (Iraq) and is now trying to make sure it isn't the next target. At this point, you can't really blame it for developing a nuclear deterrant.
Again, untrue. North Korea has admitted to never stopping it's nuclear amibitions following the consessions made with Carter on behalf of Clinton in 1994. Their buildup of nuclear arsenol never stopped, therefore stating they want a nuclear deterrant is FALSE.
lexis nexis can be edited... (Score:5, Informative)
I worked for a company that provided large quantities of content to Lexis-Nexis for six years. They provide a method by which content can be removed by anyone who is providing it.
And my experience dealing with Lexis-Nexis as a company did not leave me with a good feeling about their concern for an accurate record.
The "Liberal" Media (Score:5, Informative)
It should not be surprising that these men have a rather more conservative point of view than the press owners who they bought out.
By and large, today's media speaks for the establishment, and in the US the establishment is a Republican one.
Not true... (Score:5, Informative)
The table of contents still lists all the other articles - if you click on any one of them (for example this one [time.com] you get the first paragraph, and then an invitation to buy the rest of the article. Fine, that's their right - it costs money to archive so many pages...
But the article is question isn't listed - and the link given by The Memory Hole doesn't offer to sell you the article, it says it has been deleted.
And it's nothing to do with it being a 'popular subject' - Time states quite clearly that it's only issues over 2 years old that are archived, not 'historically important' ones.
Mark
Re:Archive.org (Score:4, Informative)
Once it hits the net, it is around for a looong time.
Re:The Excerpt (Score:2, Informative)
Don't forget about Islam Karimov:
Here are some pictures of Bush and Powell shaking hands with their good buddy, Islam Karimov. [thememoryhole.org]
I wonder if they might ask him politely to stop, you know, boiling people alive. I mean since Hussein's atrocities are now the only rationale for invading Iraq, you would think the administration would think twice about cozying up to brutal dictators. (But, then, no one was ever really bothered by that picture of Rumsfeld and Hussein shaking hands when Hussein was a CIA asset, either. To quote Chou En Lai, "One of the delightful things about Americans is that they have absolutely no historical memory." )
Obligatory excerpt from 1984 (Score:4, Informative)
Re: "Keep" them honest? (Score:2, Informative)
There was a study from some Think Tank, and then an article by Jim Lobe summarizing/commenting the result, which had some fame, with title "We report, you get it wrong". Search the title, you'd find it on several sites, some of which of some interest, the source is Tim Lobe via the Asia Times [atimes.com]
Republican budgets (Score:2, Informative)
Liberal: spends public money on the public, people
Conservative: spends public money on private corporations
How about the FUCKING LIBRARY? (Score:2, Informative)
I mean, you shouldn't be using one source for your research anyway. Especially the internet!
Re: Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? (Score:4, Informative)
"Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?" is Latin for "Who Watches The Watchers?".
I'd like to say I could've translated that. However, I still get some geek karma for it: I recognized it from having seen it before on the Star Trek TNG episode named, appropriately, "Who Watches The Watchers".
Copyright, not Orwell. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Archive.org (Score:5, Informative)
This administration has ordered government agencies to hinder Freedom of Information Act requests.
This administration now has effectively refused to honor Freedom of Information Act requests.
This administration has ignored subpoenas regarding its energy polices meetings.
This administration has refused to cooperate with 9/11 investigators RE what the President's briefings said about the possibility of attacks just prior to 9/11. Simply hindered and refused.
This is what I know.
Feel a Draft ? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/draft-boards.h
--------
On 23 Sept 2003, the Defense Department Website called "Defend America" posted a notice for people to join local draft boards. "If a military draft becomes necessary," the notice explained, "approximately 2,000 Local and Appeal Boards throughout America would decide which young men, who submit a claim, receive deferments, postponements or exemptions from military service, based on Federal guidelines."
In early November, that notice started to receive media attention, with articles from the Associated Press, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer , the Oregonian, the Toronto Star, the BBC, and London Guardian (unsurprisingly, none of the major papers or networks in the US covered it).
In a familiar turn of events, the notice suddenly disappeared from the Website. (Thanks to LG for pointing this out.) We've mirrored the page and posted the text below.
Re: "Keep" them honest? (Score:4, Informative)
Fox garnered a 80% misperception rate, while PBS/NPR audiences mispercieved about 23% of the time. I wonder what the equivalent rate among uruk.net readers was...
Re:Archive.org (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Archive.org (Score:2, Informative)
Minitrue concerned itself with the publishing of all media such as newspapers, novels and pornography. Winston's job within Minitrue was to edit newspapers (The London Times) after they were published to rewrite history. This process was controlled by the all-powerful "party" of which Winston was a mere functionary.
Winston would modify economic data such as ration values to transform decreases into increases, when in reality the product was not available to any but the inner party. He would replace names in articles for citizens who had recently been arrested for crimes against the state. The state (Oceania) was constantly at war with either Eastasia or Eurasia. When the party decided they were at war with Eastasia, Minitrue would be required to rewrite all references to a war with Eurasia. When the tide changed, Minitrue would rewrite all news to reflect the current enemy. According to the party, whomever Oceania was at war with in the present moment was who they had been at war with throughout history.
A quote from 1984: "He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future."
Re:Archive.org (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Archive.org (Score:5, Informative)
My god. Is our children learning? How in the hell can Bush's people be judged if no one wants to report on their actions on a regular basis?
No wonder the country has neocon fever. How could they not? They don't hear anything!
Links:
I do know. The Bush administration, on reaching office, immediately sealed the records of the Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations, as well as all future records of the current adminstration. Clinton's are wide open, though.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=U TF -8&q=sealed+presidential+papers+Bush+
Bush Clamping Down On Presidential Papers (washingtonpost.com)
Records By George Lardner Jr. Washington Post Staff
www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A20731-2001 Oct31
NM&L (Fall 2001): Reagan's White House papers stay sealed
presidential papers after 12
www.rcfp.org/news/mag/25-4/foi-reaganp.html - 7k - Cached - Similar pages
CBS News | Reagan Papers Released | January 4, 2002 09:58:30
last January but were kept sealed as the Bush administration worked
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/ 04/politics/main323121.shtml - 35k - Cached - Similar pages
Secret Papers
executive order stipulates that, in order for presidential papers to be
www.skepticism.org/politics/lib_SecretPapers. shtml - 19k - Cached - Similar pages
NM&L (Fall 2001): Reagan's White House papers stay sealed
presidential papers after 12
www.rcfp.org/news/mag/25-4/foi-reaganp.html - 7k - Cached - Similar pages
This administration has ordered government agencies to hinder Freedom of Information Act requests.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/09/re090302.htm l
"For whatever reason, this administration has gone way way too far in its pursuit of secrecy in some particularly worrying ways," said Mark Tapscott, head of the Center for Media and Public Policy at the conservative Heritage Foundation. "
"Even before the Sept. 11 attacks, the administration was expanding secrecy. It moved to hold up the release of presidential papers from former President Ronald Reagan and insisted on keeping secret members of an energy policy task force chaired by Vice President Dick Cheney."
"This administration is the most secretive of our lifetime, even more secretive than the Nixon administration. They don't believe the American people or Congress have any right to information," said last week Larry Klayman, chairman of Judicial Watch, a conservative group that is suing the administration to force it to reveal the members of the energy task force. "
http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.a sp ?documentID=15902
"Among the more egregious actions, Attorney General John Ashcroft told government agencies in an Oct. 12, 2001, memo