Stealth Inflation 796
prostoalex writes "The New York Times on the Web explores the topic of incorrect bills and numerous surcharges with names like 'assessment', 'handling', 'restocking', etc. David Pogue quotes Business Week magazine, where it says that such small charges $100 million annually for hotels, $2 billion for banks and $11 billion for credit-card companies. Users of landline phones, cell phones, checking accounts and credit cards are starting to suspect that such huge revenue might imply the mistakes are made on purpose. Is it just another conspiracy theory, or are we becoming victims to the stealth inflation?"
Grocery Stores (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Sad state of affairs... (Score:5, Informative)
Just look at Ebay.... (Score:3, Informative)
If two-bit entrepenuers have figured out that this is a sneaky and effective profitmaker, I am sure it is not lost on the bigger, hungerier corporations....
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I've been waiting for a class action (Score:5, Informative)
- CALIFORNIA CODES
The beauty (or horror, depending on your perspective) is the "unfair" part. What was not technically illegal in the past may now be sued for if it is "unfair."BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONS CODE
SECTION 17200
17200. As used in this chapter, unfair competition shall mean and
include any unlawful, unfair or fraudulent business act or practice
and unfair, deceptive, untrue or misleading advertising and any act
prohibited by Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17500) of Part 3 of
Division 7 of the Business and Professions Code.
Next case, hidden bank and ATM fees...
Re:Sad state of affairs... (Score:5, Informative)
Don't get yourself in trouble trying to "get back at the Man." I hate the Man as much as anyone, but there are smart ways and dumb ways to fight.
-B
It's not inflation, damn it. (Score:1, Informative)
The first paragraph is non-sensical.
Inflation is a fall in the monetary standard unit of account. Inflation isn't the rising of prices, but the rising of prices is a result of inflation. As the dollar becomes worth less, prices must rise to still cost the same. Inflation is seen by a rising price of gold followed by rising commodity prices or also in a fall in the exchange rate (although you must be careful with that because if two currencies are both deflating but one is deflating faster than the second, the second currencies will appear to be inflating if you do not look towards other indicators).
The two examples in the first paragraph as exactly this. In the 70s and early 80s Stagflation we say gold shoot up stratopherically and the value of the dollar plummet. That resulted in high commodity prices (oil being improperly blamed on the Arab oil emabargo which had no serious effects) and soon filtered down to consumer prices. The deflation of the late 90s was a strengthening of the dollar driven by growth. A standard way of wording deflation is too few dollars chasing too many goods (or inflatoin as too many dollars chasing too few goods). We produced a lot in the late 90s and Greenspan didn't accomidate the growth so prices and business profits had to fall. (Consumer prices were not pushed negative too much because the CPI measurement has an upwards bias, and by the time the CPI shows falling prices you have to be heavily deflating.)
These were both changes in the monetary standard. All the article is talking about hidden fees. I guess "stealth inflation" has more buzzword points, but there is no such thing.
Argh. The NY Times just looses more credibility each day. Let's go see what crap Krugman is spewing today...
Re:"Restocking" fees, especially! (Score:3, Informative)
Cash discounts (Score:3, Informative)
Now, stores up here like to play games with this. They offer a "cash discount" if you pay with anything other than a credit card. It's usually right around what their merchant fee is, in my experience. So bascially, they raise their prices by 1%, and charge everyone who uses a credit card the higher price. Sneaky, eh? What's funny is that some stores claim they do this because of the cost of processing various forms of money. I did retail for a while with the swipe terminals, and I'll tell you, it's FAR cheaper for a business to handle credit card monies - except for their merchant fees.
It simply amazes me that this is allowed to go on.
The other neat one is the "no payment, no interest for 12 months deal", but they tack on a $50 (or more) fee onto the purchase as an "administration fee". Often, it'd be cheaper to get a small bank loan and just pay the damned interest.
Re:This sucks (Score:3, Informative)
I rented a PODS [podsusa.com] storage unit. Upon ordering it I was suckered into a $5 charge for "POD insurance". It was only $5, and I assumed a one time fee, so I said sure.
I then found out that I was being billed $5 a month for said insurance.
Get this. The insurance was for their property on their property. I inquired as to how I could be in any way shape or form responsible for anything if I didn't pay this insurance, and noone could answer. So I had them credit my account for any such insurance charges.
Re:Human nature (Score:5, Informative)
In 2000 ATT was my local cable service, I wanted pay channels and a remote control.
They quoted me a price, which was no where close to what I actually paid.
Normal Sales Tax, I calculate this into everything already, I expect it, roads, schools and such.
Additional charge for the remote controls, the installer said they're extra, huh?
County franchise tax, which has something to do with the fact their cable is strung through the county.
City Franchise tax, same as above, but for the wire strewn through the city.
Sales tax was calculated after these taxes, the bill was over $50.00 greater than the quoted rate. I argued with ATT to at least calculate the sales tax corretly, they essentially told me to F$%@ off.
So I did, I canceled cable, went to circuit city, bought a directv system, installed it myself and later that day had crystal clear satellite with just sales tax added in.
Then I canceled my long distance with ATT after a phone conversation cost me $1.00 a minute, they said I'm not on a plan, so I asked about one, they said I had to pay additional fees every month to be on one, I told them to F#$% off this time, canceled long distance service entirely on the landline, the cellphone has nationwide anyhow.
After sometime I saw a deal with ATT cellular online, it looked better than everything else out at the time, and my current cingular contract was up. I signed up online, the phone was shipped quickly, no hassels, until several months later.....
They apparently decided I didn't need the free bonus minutes, or the nights and weekends like I signed up with, I got a $490 cellphone bill, I lost the paperwork I signed up with, they did back credit for that month, but how many other months did they screw me on and how many people actually sit down with the calculator to tally all their minutes?
ATT has forever lost my business, this includes comcast, no matter the marketing spin, no matter the offer, they will never again be someone I pay cash to.
Oh and nearly everyone I know has kicked them to the curb as well.
Re:Sad state of affairs... (Score:3, Informative)
My pre-EKG teaching is "hey, I need to look at the electrical activity in your heart. Is that okay?"
I would love to explain to my patients the wonders of every test I order... down to the physics and chemistry of it.
Re:Cash discounts (Score:2, Informative)
I believe that in the US, VISA/MX/Discover/Etc. all prohibit stores from such practices in their Merchant Agreements. If the merchant wants to accept the card, they can't offer discounts for cash.
Re:Another hidden cost: Rebates. (Score:2, Informative)
Did she travel at all? (Score:3, Informative)
It sucks, but it's normal.
Re:Fraud? I don't think so. (Score:2, Informative)
I don't see why you can't bill the company for the amount of your time their facilities used. You couldn't stop them closing their relationship with you, however, which could be difficult for credit checks, and a bit of a pain anyway.
Re:This sucks (Score:4, Informative)
I don't carry all the bells and whistles, just touch tone. Think about that last one. I get billed
With "full" services (well, call-waiting), my typical phone bill was $25. Well, I cancelled call-waiting ($3/month) and found my next bill to be $26. WTF? So I go digging. Ah, there we go, I had a couple of long distance phone calls. For a total amount of around
Hey! A girl with an Indian accent answers my call! (But she spoke very good english and provided good service, I just thought it was a bit ironic). I complain. She explains that she will take the $3 "fee" off and will also discharge the $1 consolidation fee, but AT&T will send me a bill for charges every month. She also says that the $3 "fee" will not appear on my bill ever again, leading me to think that it's a "sucker's" bill, hoping people won't notice it. Anyway, the experience infuriated me so much that I just cancelled my LD service right there and had LD completely removed from my phone line at home, but thought better of it and just went with BellSouth, who guaranteed there'd be no odd charges for "service" and no "consolidation" charge.
Because of this experience, however, I've now started combing over my power bill and other stuff, too, because who knows what else I'm paying for. In fact, I found out my bank charges me $1.25/month for "ATM service." Huh? Last I checked, using debit cards SAVE the bank something like
Re:Oh yes (Score:3, Informative)
I ship all CDs with a case, and then I ship it in either a padded envelope (if it's a slim case) or an actual CD box (like the ones BMG sends you CDs in) + postage and insurance or delivery confirmation and yes it can get close to $5. Usualy for me it comes out to arround $4.28 or something like that, but it's easier to charge $5.
Re:Sad state of affairs... (Score:3, Informative)
This is part of the theory behind MSA's (Medical savings accounts). The idea is that you put money into this account monthly--then when you need to go to the doctor you go to one, negotiate a price, then pay from this fund (I know it's a little more complicated than that, but the idea is essentially correct).
This means that you retain control (100%) over the money in the account, and are NOT paying some HMO for unnecessary inflation of costs, AND is cheaper than regular insurance.
The catch is if you are sick more than about every other month on average, at which point you start to lose money.
Personally, I think doing this would allow doctors to compete more directly with each other (thus reducing costs to the consumer), but would deal with the cases you talk about where the HMO steals such a vast amount of the doctor's pay.
In addition to this, I would recommend that the only thing to get insurance for would be for medicines.
To be perfectly honest, I think that auto insurance is similarly inflated due to being mandatory (the insurance companies know this, so they can charge more than they otherwise would).
Back on topic, hidden costs are the reason that certain small stores don't like me--and the reason I won't go back. I bought an alternator (used) from a junk yard salvage store. When I installed this in the car, in didn't work, so I had it tested, and it was a dead part. The company in question refused to give a full refund, and as a result, I will never step foot in that store again. If you sell me a part, and then refuse to refund payment for a defective part (even at a junk yard), then I don't want to do business with you. Ever.
Here's a company... (Score:2, Informative)
I was five minutes from buying memory from these clowns when I discovered that site. It boggles my mind that they're still in business, but I check back every couple of weeks to see what new colourful language is being used ("It's like two people running a business out of their bedroom or something.").
Re:Just look at Ebay.... (Score:4, Informative)
Progressive Insurance (Score:1, Informative)
While not really bill related, it has to do with companies screwing you and not really caring at all, and some hidden costs because of this from other organizations.
At one time many years ago, when I had a car, it was insured with Progressive. Each month a few days before the bill was due, I would call into their phone payment system with a bill in hand and my credit card to make a payment. When you call in, they ask you to punch in your account number, they repeat it back, then begin to process your card. It is a live transaction, with immediate effects on your balance once payment is authorized. After authorization they give you a short number to keep in hand as your payment authorization.
15 days later I recieved my bill on it's usual time, and proceeded to ignore it, since I pay a few days before it is due. When I opened the bill, almost a month after making the last payment, I realized they had sent me a letter of notification that my insurance had been cancelled because I had failed to pay my previous bill. I called them up, and the people behind the phone were unresponsive, saying statements like "There is nothing we can do", "we cannot access that", etc etc.
So for 28 days I was without insurance on my vehicle, and it took Progressive 18 of those days to send me notification that I had lapsed. The DMV didn't notice though, and promptly billed me $8 a day, which ended up being 30 days, because it took me a day or so to find quotes. (That's $240)
Progressive ended up billing me a minor cancellation fee, which I told them to shove up their collective arse, and I guess they did, noticing the circumstances. They also failed to do anything about the DMV bill.
One more minor hidden cost was restarting a new policy, since I had a lapse of insurance for 30 days, I couldn't get an insurance discount when you have insurance for more than 6 months, which I had to pay for until I could get a new policy 6 months later.
btw: Progressive never denied that they had recieved payment when I gave them the authorization number, they just conveniently forgot about it.
I am currently a Progressive customer because I don't have a (financial) choice, and I'm dreading every month's bill.
A thief in customers clothing. (Score:1, Informative)
"who's a thief" and "who's a customer" I've worked retail and none of
the thieves wear a sign saying "I'm a thief". I find it safer to hope
for the best (a customer) and expect the worst (a thief) and keep my
mouth shut until I can prove otherwise.
Naked among cannibals (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Stealth Payroll tax (Score:3, Informative)
Granted, this is still deceptive, but it isn't as bad as if your employer also had to match the income tax.