Smart Billboards 313
djdanlib writes "The New York Times ran this story Sunday about the Mobiltrak smart billboard system. It works by detecting what radio station you're listening to as you pass by a billboard, then displaying advertisements targeted at that station's demographic. It's kind of like a real-time Nielsen Ratings system for radio. And it's entirely passive, requiring no special hardware in your car - it receives the faint tuning signal generated by your radio." We've mentioned these before.
Oh boy... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh boy... (Score:5, Insightful)
How about the flip side? I listen to NPR a lot, and if enough people are listening to non-corporate radio, it'll be really interesting to see what kinds of ads are displayed.
Of course in Phoenix, almost all of the corporate stations are running extremely frequent ads for adult stores like "The Castle Boutique" and "Fascinations", or ads for participating in medical studies, so the content could get rather lewd or strange if these advertisers take to the billboards...
Re:Oh boy... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Oh boy... (Score:2, Informative)
Now, Keillor and his ilk just rattle out a whole ditty for each corporate sponsor, written by that spon
Re:Oh boy... (Score:5, Insightful)
Wow, I must be further left-of-center than I thought. NPR isn't corporate radio?
To answer your original ponder about what kind of ads, how about ADM, Saab, Keane, etc. They're still ads, they're still for-profit corporations paying money for their ads to be placed on advertiser-supported broadcast radio.
Pledge drives support the operations budget of the local re-broadcaster, not NPR.
--
Re:Oh boy... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Oh boy... (Score:4, Funny)
I recently viewed non-taxpayer supported radio, but I got bored after it just sat there doing nothing for a while.
Re:Oh boy... (Score:4, Informative)
Anyhow, by asking if anyone listened to taxpayer supported radio, I was actually trying to make a probably way too subtle point...
My local public radio station gets some high 90s percent of it's budget from listener contributions, which I beleive is typical. Most of their content comes from NPR or PRI, which in turn get almost all their funding from dues paid by the aforementioned local stations. Both at the local and national level, the public radio organizations get very small amounts of funding for specific purposes from competive government grants. Anyone can compete for these grants; there is no specific public radio funding in the US or Colorado budget.
So I don't think it's reasonable to call NPR "taxpayer supported radio". (You'd have a much better case for referring to Boeing as "taxpayer supported aviation", which I doubt the original poster is in the habit of doing.)
Thus, for (admittedly minor) humerous effect, I chose to pretend he was talking about the only actual "taxpayer supported radio" I know of: The US propaganda network Voice of America, which cheifly brodcasts overseas.
So now I've taken my original quick smart-ass post and competely beaten it into the ground. (Does that make this a long, dumb-ass post?)
Re:Oh boy... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's indirect, but it's still support.
and content by the corporations (Score:3, Informative)
Seriously, what if the majority of riders are listening to truly non-commercial stations like student stations e.g. ones with voice id's like "WCBN 88.3 FM - at the far left of your radio dial" or "Radio Free Ann Arbor". Would the billboard show an ad for a state or city park or a free concert? Or just tell people to bike to work?
Re:Oh boy... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Vote for this politician, who is just like the other one, except for his stance on the death penalty!"
"Support our drive to change this wholly irrelevant government policy! Ignore the $=power equation, and the fact that you=$0!"
"Vote! Cloak the government in the mantle of legitimacy!"
"Vote twice! Cloak the government in the Mantle of Legitimacy +2!"
Corporate sponsorship is fundamentally no different from federal sponsorship. Both sponsors want you to be a good sheep. Both hold up the threat of mutton to encourage you to permit your fleecing.
Re:Oh boy... (Score:2)
It could get worse. I spend most of my driving time listening to (and using) a CB radio.
Would love to see this on a freeway (Score:4, Insightful)
Simon
Hacks? (Score:5, Funny)
Stuck in bumper to bumper traffic...SUV cuts you off.
Broadcast message to billboard: "Man in Silver SUV with license plate 12345 has no pants on, is currently drinking, and likes to beat small puppies".
Re:Hacks? (Score:3, Insightful)
Other examples of this mode of thinking in action:
There's more to morality than the law. There's more to life than fulfilling your own small selfish desires. But it's your right to think otherwise.
Schism. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Schism. (Score:5, Funny)
1. Advertising is dumb.
2. Advertising works.
3. Marketers use adverstisements that appeal to the most people.
Conclusion: most people are dumb.
The google link (Score:5, Informative)
If my radio.. (Score:5, Interesting)
High traffic areas... (Score:5, Insightful)
How well would these wok in high traffic areas? I could see something like this in Kansas or some other place where you have time to hit the reciver, change the ad and such, but in a high traffic area?...would it try to pick up if you driving a Ford POS or a Beemer and then chose the ad based on that?
What if I am listening to Art Bell? Would it show me an ad for the latest book on Shadow Gov? Jim Rome? How to have a take a not suck? Kim Kommando? Your a loser and need to return your computer right now? Top 40? All you $$$ belong to us - The RIAA? (off topic rant I know)
Seriously, seeing an ever changing sign in a high speed/high traffic zone is an pile-up just begging to happen. I would hope they keep these kind of things in areas where concentration can be peoperly applied to them without the detriment to overall driving situation.
(This post too sucky to spehl cheq...)
Spoofing the billboard (Score:5, Interesting)
this way I could get the bill board to restrict its selection to topics. If my Ad was in that rotation then I probably just improved its visibility five or ten fold. I could sell that to people who place ads.
Re:Spoofing the billboard (Score:2, Interesting)
You're right, it would be easy to screw up.
Re:Spoofing the billboard (Score:2)
Yep, right until the FCC caught you. I'm pretty sure that could be construed as operating a jamming device, which is a felony. Even if it isn't, it's operating an unlicensed transmitter, which still gets you nailed.
If you do this in your car, they might not care. Mess with advertising dollars, and they will.
Re:Spoofing the billboard (Score:3, Insightful)
Only superheterodyne tuners do this. Regenerative tuners will do this only if they're improperly adjusted. TRF tuners will never do this. I guess that means it's time to break out the old Atwater Kent [iadfw.net]...
Re:Spoofing the billboard (Score:3, Interesting)
Another consideration: Do all modern broadcast receivers use the exact same first IF frequency? I can say with confidence that very few 2-way radios do. I've seen a number of cases where even different model ser
Re:Spoofing the billboard (Score:2, Funny)
Re:High traffic areas... (Score:2, Informative)
Threshold breaking drivers (Score:3, Funny)
Hmmm.... (Score:5, Interesting)
But then I got to thinking: could you drop a radio next to the billboard and amp the faint tuning signal, so, say, all the people listening to top 40 see ads targeted toward NPR listeners?
I guess this is theoretically possible. Funny how every new advertising technology begs the question, "How can I subvert this?"
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:5, Funny)
Simple! If it detects traffic moving that slowly, it puts up an ad for the local metrorail system
Station Surfing (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Station Surfing (Score:2, Funny)
Broadcaster/Advertizer hacks for this (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Broadcaster/Advertizer hacks for this (Score:2)
If the advertising agency charges per impression, then advertisers also would not want to hack the system in this way. They are purchasing for a specific demographic and will have to pay for impressions outside of that demographic. Why not just get a standard still billboard in that case? Why advert
Re:Broadcaster/Advertizer hacks for this (Score:2)
Good point. But if Mobiltrak data is used for radio station listener rankings, then hacking is good for broadcasters. If a broadcaster (call them K-HACK) looks popular (even by artificial means), then it can charge a higher rate for all of its ads. In fact, the data will inevitably bias adverti
Easily corrupted (Score:2, Interesting)
Then it would overpower the car radios and make it appear that all the cars are tuned to that station. This would seem like a good thing for that station's marketing department.
I've seen these signs (Score:5, Interesting)
And who pays for this? Seems different. (Score:4, Interesting)
Most billboard business is based on renting the space. If you have to rely on a radio station's demographic to get your ad up there, how would you pro-rate that rental fee? Does the radio station get anything out of it, if you try it that way? And so on. Seems like a substantially different business model could build around this idea -- something "hits"-like.
(And more importantly, what does this mean for public service announcements? If I'm driving down the road and all the billboards are tailoring themselves to messages about the D.A.R.E. program, am I listening to Rush Limbaugh, or what? How about if all the pictures turn to messages about abortion?)
Re:And who pays for this? Seems different. (Score:2)
[off-topic bit]
This is something us brits don't understand, what is alternative about a pretty boring family car?
I, for one, don't understand why these have taken off among the young in the states. Over here (where they where designed, manufactured in germany I think) they are driven by old folks.
oh, a little bit of trivia, I developed the software that tested the seat rails in the focus. This is one reason I have for never owning one ;
Re:And who pays for this? Seems different. (Score:2)
the ford ka would probably take off here among people who don't want to spend money on a car.
Re:And who pays for this? Seems different. (Score:2)
I assume the OP was talking about the little tiny Focus, which seems to be the most popular one around here. The other Focii don't seem to be too popular.
I was in the UK not too long ago, and I had a lot of fun looking at all the different models of cars on the roads. But I was surprised at the number of American cars there. I can kind of understand why some Americans buy American cars, but I don't understa
People seem to be misunderstanding (Score:5, Informative)
Some questions (Score:3, Interesting)
- Why does every radio emit a signal? Is it inefficiency? Is it really every radio or only old ones?
- Is this signal broadcasted back through your antenna or is this just a faint signal inside your radio and they have really good receivers in their billboards?
- Has anybody tried to create a radio that doesn't emit this signal?
- Is this only something with FM radio, or also with AM?
Thanks for some clarifications.Re:Some questions (Score:5, Informative)
Your radio has a component in it (an oscillator) that vibrates at the frequency of the station you're listening to. This is "tuning" into the station. This vibration is what emits the signal.
Is this signal broadcasted back through your antenna or is this just a faint signal inside your radio and they have really good receivers in their billboards? Definitely a result of good receivers in the billboard. Though I think the antenna helps.
Has anybody tried to create a radio that doesn't emit this signal?
Not that I know of. I don't think it's really been a major issue worth pursuing in the consumer market. The best way to do it would probably be to shield the box. But since you've got to have an antenna linking the oscillator with the emag signal, you can never completely isolate it.
Is this only something with FM radio, or also with AM?
Both AM and FM. You've got to have an oscillator to tune into either one.
Not quite right (Score:5, Informative)
The way a modern superheterodyne radio works is like this:
You want to listen to a radio frequency at F1.
The radio creates a local oscillator (or LO) frequency of F2, such that abs(F2-F1) = F3, where F3 is a fixed, intermediate frequency (or IF). A common IF for FM radios is 10.7 MHz, and a common IF for AM radios is 455 kHz. By pulling the signal to a fixed frequency the rest of the radio's design can be better optimized and simpler.
Now, F2 can be either F1+F3 or F1-F3, it make little difference. So one way to confuse the system would be to retune the radio so that it uses "the other IF" - i.e. if the radio is using F2=F3+F1, retune the guts so that it uses F2=F1-F3.
Alternatively, replace the IF strip to change F2, and then retune the radio appropriately - if the sign's systems assume an IF of 10.7 MHz, and you are using an IF of 9.7 MHz, that will confuse the sign. The difficulty there is getting components designed for a non-standard frequency. If the radio is using the old "tuned slug" design this isn't so bad, but if the radio is using a crystal filter you are looking at custom crystals.
However, there is no need for the LO to be coupled to the world - the first stages of the radio can amplify the RF and decouple the first LO mixer from the world. It just takes a bit more work on the sheilding of the radio - you use a milled block of aluminum rather than foil sheilds. I know, since that is what I do for a living - design radios (well, radio test gear, which is a special case of the class Radio)
However, building a jamming oscillator at the needed frequencies to scramble this sign, while completely illegal, is also trivial - buy a cheap FM transmitter kit and retune it slightly. Of course, by causing interference you are in violation of FCC part 15 rules, and will get nailed if you get caught, so don't, 'mkay?
If it bothers you, just don't listen to the radio.
Re:Some questions (Score:5, Informative)
The key is that the frequency of the local oscillator varies, so if you can detect the output of the local oscillator, you can tell to what frequency the radio is tuned. I'm oversimplifying greatly, and the article I've referred to is a pretty rough overview - if you really want to know how this stuff works, you need to do some serious studying. :'}
Re:Some questions (Score:2, Informative)
My iPod + iRock = devalued radio (wasted ads) (Score:2, Insightful)
I primarily listen to my iPod using an iRock FM transmitter. Its signal strength is low enough that I fear Billboards may overpower it.
If I *ever* catch a commercial interrupting the sanctum of my iPod to my car stereo, I will clip the antenna lead and install a loop around the sticky pad where my iPod sits. If that doesn't work, I'll cut radio completely out. I'll get a preamp and amp with a direct connection.
Who needs radio? I won't go back to radio until there is some kind of cellular packet radio wi
Re:My iPod + iRock = devalued radio (wasted ads) (Score:3, Informative)
Re:My iPod + iRock = devalued radio (wasted ads) (Score:2)
I guess I didn't read this carefully enough. I had a kind of big-brother moment there. Thanks for keeping my feet on the ground :)
What happens if 200 people are in line looking at the billboard doing 65 and everyone is listening to something different? I don't read billboards while listening to good music. I still see radio content changing to accomodate the smart billboards...
Re:My iPod + iRock = devalued radio (wasted ads) (Score:4, Funny)
"We've mentioned these before." (Score:5, Funny)
Hmm, what's this then? Some kind of new editorial disclaimer to enable double posts?
-- james
Re:"We've mentioned these before." (Score:2)
And we'll mention these again, and again, until you ignorant consumers get it through your thick skull what the next big thing is!
Did I say that out loud?
National conglomorate? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:National conglomorate? (Score:3, Informative)
If they start taking over radio stations wholesale they have a whole lot of advertisising space to push their wares.
and now they can selectivly push them on roads where their pentitration is low
sparkes
Ok.. (Score:2)
I'm telling ya... (Score:5, Funny)
What Billboards? (Score:2)
Would have been a great idea 40 years ago, though...
Re:What Billboards? (Score:2)
You are lucky. There are billboards all over the US. I've driven across the country a few times and you can't escape them.
Let me get this straight (Score:5, Funny)
Being paranoid is getting to be more work all the time.
Feh! (Score:3, Interesting)
Prior Art? [imdb.com]
finally -- technology comes through (Score:3, Funny)
Hello, this is Harris. I'm in right now, so you can talk to me personally. Please start talking at the sound of the beep
It's Minority Report come true! (Score:2)
Once we have finally achieved wall-to-wall adverts on every possible medium - and we're nearly there - the backlash will begin. It's like the PFY who comes up to you in an electrical store and starts trying to sell you stuff...why do I always want to punch him?
OT: low tech spam on Mexican beach (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:OT: low tech spam on Mexican beach (Score:2)
Re:It's Minority Report come true! (Score:2)
It's impossible to know if you have. Adverts can influence you in indirect ways, such as a friend seeing one and trying a product and then recommending it to you. An advertisement can also bring a familiarity of a product to you, so that when you are in a grocery store and you are looking at many similar products, you would grab one that was advertised in your past (although you are not thinking of the adverti
Another problem with these (Score:2)
Never to get a hold of your dean's subcuteanous transpoder and clone it.
Dumb idea (Score:2, Informative)
How many billboards have you driven past lately where you were the only one around in a car?
Even if it does some kind of averaging. What, you're going to average Howard Stern and NPR? Is the result going to be better than the vanilla demographic they have for that area anyway?
And I have the right (Score:2, Interesting)
hrmmm (Score:2)
What next? On-the-fly MRI Brain scans? (Score:2)
Neuros FM transmitter (Score:5, Interesting)
Nah, they'll probably be too stupid for that. They'll probably think "Wow, this guy's listening to bumfuck cornfield radio!" or whatever the 91.9MHz station is that sometimes leaks through and interferes with my music. I'll probably get ads for Bibles or manure.
Exception: I listen to a college radio station show on Thursday afternoons: Guerrilla Radio, on WRUW 91.1 FM, 1630-1730 Thursdays. Unless I forget.
Re:Neuros FM transmitter (Score:2)
(Perhaps they'll show ads for car stereos with auxiliary input jacks...)
What would be interesting... (Score:2, Interesting)
Ok class, can you say HERF? (Score:2)
Because the radio isn't full of ads already? (Score:2)
Coming soon: Revolutionary new smart e-boards create customized, targeted advertising across multiple mediums to provide a fully immersive, multimedia marketing opportunity which responds in real time to complement FM radio advertisement, maximizing penetration to target demographics. Consumers can now receive 2 hours worth of advertisements every h
Shades of Minority Report? (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally, I found the advertising techniques in that movie to be a hell of a lot scarier than the whole Future Crime stuff. Probably because the advertising could happen. As I watched the movie I was picturing advertising execs having wet dreams, and board meetings saying, "We need this!"
And now, here is the beginnings of it.
Re:Welcome to 10 years ago ... (Score:5, Insightful)
uh, people who want traffic reports? People who want to listen to the news or weather?
Re:Welcome to 10 years ago ... (Score:2)
Re:Welcome to 10 years ago ... (Score:2)
Re:Welcome to 10 years ago ... (Score:5, Funny)
Oh man, you are so behind the times. I ripped all my news and weather reports to mp3's a long time ago. Now I can listen to peace treaties or car bombings, sunny weather or rain, depending on my mood on any given day! It's great!
Re:Welcome to 10 years ago ... (Score:2)
Those are people who listen to AM, not FM. I'm pretty sure this doesn't work with AM.
Re:Welcome to 10 years ago ... (Score:2)
Maybe if you live in the boondocks then FM stations may not do reports, but I suspect just about any large market onesthat have been around for a while do...
Re:Welcome to 10 years ago ... (Score:2)
I don't know about the FM radio part of it, but Cincinnati has the first (and only, so far) billboard I have seen that is a full billboard-sized color screen (it must be one of those screens like they use at the new Pro Stadiums). It is on Southbound I-71 just a few miles before you hit downtown. I have seen it the last few trips between Erie, PA and Louisville, so it has been there at least 6 months to a year (I don't remember when I first saw it).
This billboard screen could work with a radio sensing sys
Re:Welcome to 10 years ago ... (Score:2)
I forgot about the Roberts center -- was too busy watching SUVs go into the median around there last night (was coming back from my Sister-in-law's graduation and there were icy spots between Columbus and Cinci). I suppose they need the brightness so that the signs are visable during the day, but surely they could dim them a little at night - especially Roberts. You can see that sucker several miles away.
Re:Welcome to 10 years ago ... (Score:2)
And people who want 10 minutes of commercials for every 8 minutes of music. And for people who like to listen to "morning personalities" engage in forced banter, lame call-in contests and laugh like they've been sniffing nitrious oxide.
No thanks.
Re:Welcome to 10 years ago ... (Score:2)
do tell
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Welcome to 10 years ago ... (Score:2)
Re:Welcome to 10 years ago ... (Score:3, Interesting)
-Sean
NPR Billboard: (Score:2)
(I'm a rabid, die-hard NPR listener myself)
WTF?... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Welcome to 10 years ago ... (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, MP3 players are getting cheaper, but an iPod is sill $200, and every car built in the last 30 years has an AM/FM radio. Aside from just the weather, the news, and ta
Re:Imagine... (Score:2)
Re:not good in rush hour (Score:2, Informative)
"Using the information collected by the Mobiltrak device, Future Ford knows that on weekdays that stretch of I-80 carries a lot of drivers who listen to country-and-western stations, so that's when the dealership advertises the Ford F-150, a popular pickup truck. Evening drivers, Mobiltrak has found, are more apt to listen to talk radio and
Re:not good in rush hour (Score:3, Insightful)
Just as elevators in tall buildings don't get all flabbergasted and shoot out of the roof, these bill boards should be pretty well behaved too.
Re:not good in rush hour (Score:2)
The thing is a huge, bidirectional, full-color matrix display that is frequently doing its best to imitate a color TV set. We're talking full-motion ads, in full view of all four lanes of In
Re:Changing stations quickly, (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:XM? (Score:3, Interesting)
No, it will probably not react to XM or Sirius radios, unless you are using a modulator with it (to listen over an FM station preset in your car) in which case it will read garbage.
That last statement probably needs more elucidation. If you have your sirius/XM radio being rebroadcast on, say, 99.3, then the billboard will detect your LO at 99.3+10.2=109.5 and correctly conclude that you are listening to a radio tuned to 99.3, and it may also detect the modulator's carrier at 99.3, and conclude that you a