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Music Media Hardware Technology

iRiver Announces 40G Player & Previews 2004 Line 427

Posted by Cliff from the that's-a-lotta-tunes-on-your-hip dept.
slavitos writes: "Just as we've finished our discussions of OGG support in iRiver players, the company has announced it will soon release a 40G HD player. According to this source, the new model will differ slightly from the previous 20G one - for example, the 40G player will be 3 mm thicker and 12 grams heavier. The cost of the device has not yet been determined." While we're on the topic of iRiver, thopo notes: "iRiver presented their new products coming spring 2004, here are pictures from the show, including pictures (and specs) of all new models. Especially noteworthy is the IHP-300 which comes with a 2" color TFT LCD and a very classy design. This thing got 'iPod Killer' written all over it." The page is in Korean, but most of the product descriptions in the pictures are in English.
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iRiver Announces 40G Player & Previews 2004 Line More

iRiver Announces 40G Player & Previews 2004 Line

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  • Ipod killer (Score:5, Interesting)

    by stanmann ( 602645 ) on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:32PM (#7906591) Journal
    How will this kill the Ipod without Itunes... IIRC Itunes only supports the Ipod.. Or does the Iriver have RTunes?

    • Re:Ipod killer (Score:5, Interesting)

      by haystor ( 102186 ) on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:41PM (#7906703)
      My wife was looking through iTunes and on first glance everything seemed pretty cool. But then she started pulling up old albums and I started hearing complaints:

      xxx isn't on here. Ok, I can understand they haven't signed everything in the world.

      Then she found someone she liked that had a bunch of albums on there. Except for the good song from each album. She cited several examples after looking for a mere 30 minutes where the popular song from an album was the only song not available from it.

      Is this a common experience with iTunes?

      $1 a song isn't bad unless it's $1 for each of the crappy songs in which case it's worse than buying the whole cd.

      • Re:Ipod killer (Score:2, Informative)

        by aflat362 ( 601039 )
        I haven't run into that problem. Usually the partial albums have only the good songs from what I've seen.

      • iTunes != iTMS (Score:5, Insightful)

        by nosferatu-man ( 13652 ) <spamdot@homonculus.net> on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:54PM (#7906884) Homepage
        I like the way the iTMS works, but I don't buy much music there, as most of what I want is not on the Big Five. To me, the biggest iPod win is not .m4p (FairPlay burdened AAC) from the Music Store. The big win is the integration between iTunes the music jukebox/ripper/&c. and the iPod. It's seamless; they are really two parts of the same tool.

        'jfb
        • which is what makes the iPod so much better than the competitors....it transcends hardware and software.....it is sof-rdware, one cohesive tool that works like magic where as the other players out there require crappy organizer software or only use explorer.

      • Not that common... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) * on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @06:23PM (#7907225)
        I've noticed that problem with a few bands, but most of the music I've looked at is complete. One artist I like (Barenaked Ladies) you could even buy the full CD of songs a week before the real CD was released in stores!

        I would submit a request for that particular song to the iTunes request section, they really do pay attention to that as whole artists and songs I've asked for have appeared.

      • Re:Ipod killer (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Aqua OS X ( 458522 )
        True. Apple doesn't have access to everyone yet. A lot of musicians don't want to sell their music on a per track basis. They want to be able to sell whole albums. (buy the good track, and be forced to by the crappy ones) However, although those musicians don't have their music on the ITMS, they also don't have their music on any of the other music services.

        Supposedly Apple has the largest collection of purchasable popular music. Some music stores beef up there numbers by posting music from unknowns, or

    • Re:Ipod killer (Score:3, Informative)

      by Skuld-Chan ( 302449 )
      Most of my mp3's are not itunes files (actually I lied - none of them are) - a lot of them I made myself.

      Plus this device just acts like a usb hdd when connected to your mac/pc - if you could figure out how to get your itunes files into mp3 format you're set.

    • It won't (Score:5, Insightful)

      by swordboy ( 472941 ) on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:59PM (#7906941) Journal
      How will this kill the Ipod without Itunes...

      Itunes or not, even Apple have realized [apple.com] that the average Joe doesn't have anywhere near 40 gigs of music.

  • English description of 40-GB model (Score:5, Informative)

    by hankwang ( 413283 ) * on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:32PM (#7906601) Homepage
    The 40 GB iHP-140 is described in English on their Northern Europe [irivernordic.com] website. You have to click on the English flag in the upper right corner.

  • I'm looking very closely... (Score:5, Funny)

    by xerxesVII ( 707232 ) on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:34PM (#7906623)
    and I don't see "i-pod killer" written anywhere on it, much less all over it.
    • I know this was meant to be funny, but you're right. When you buy an iPod, you get (for better or worse) the support from Apple, in the form of iTunes, warranty support, and technical support. Who is iRiver, and does anyone have any idea what their support is going to be like?

      I know everyone's going to hit me with the "iPod's non-replaceable battery dies after 18 months", but the fact of the matter is that both Apple and the aftermarket have addressed this. You can get the battery in your iPod replaced. Gr
      • iRiver is a huge player in the portable audio market - go to any computer store in the US and you'll probably find a selection of thier stuff. The iPod has more mind share, but that doesn't mean all the companies competing with Apple are fly-by-night nobodies.

        As for creating "new categories of software"... well, when you get around to doing that let me know. Open source is largely driven by "This doesn't work for me, so I'll make something that does" feeling, and if you don't get that then you aren't reall

  • Ogg is nice on iRiver, but what about my iPod? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:34PM (#7906626)
    If Apple is so pro-open source, when are they going to add Ogg Vorbis to the iPod?

    • Re:Ogg is nice on iRiver, but what about my iPod? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:39PM (#7906680)
      Apple is also pro-profit, so they'll do it when more than five people will buy iPods as a result.
    • You know when they will add Ogg Vorbis....when it supports DRM. I hate DRM as much as the next guy but until it does, then Apple won't touch it.

      I would like to believe that Apple thinks the whole DRM is a joke but they play along because they wouldn't get any music company to support iTunes selling songs without it.

      I like Ogg format but I am not going to hold my breath on this one.
      • In fact, AAC doesn't really support DRM either. It's a hack using a special stream entity to mark it as encrypted so the player knows to fetch a decryption key (hidden from the user by the firmware/iTunes)

        OGG is a container format that has tons of ways to add in custom markings (including arbitrary attribute strings...) one of those could be used in a similar fashion to mark the bitstream as encrypted.

        Plus it already plays unencrypted files (the only kind it DOES support is AAC).
        So... not a good reason.
    • "If Apple is so pro-open source, when are they going to add Ogg Vorbis to the iPod? "

      Does the iPod have the processing power to do it? It is my understanding that OGG requires more operations to decode. Corrections invited.

      In any case, what's the point of cramming it in there if the general populace isn't even aware of its existence? It's one more thing to support, and doesn't guarantee a whole lot more people are going to buy iPods. From a business point of view, it's pretty cleary why they're not j
      • Quite some time ago, when Linux was first put onto the iPod, an early version of Tremor (An integer-only Vorbis decoder) was running at around 80% realtime. Seeing as there have been various performance and memory optimisations during that time, it's possible they may be able to get it to work.

        Oh, the general populace isn't aware of AAC's existance either and there's still plenty of room on the iPod's firmware, so why not?
    • I had heard a rumour that Apple was planning on opening up the iPod a bit to 3rd parties who want to write add-on software. Presumably Vorbis support would be there for motivated developers.

      But that's just a rumour. I do realise that historically Apple has been pretty closed. However, if it's true that the iPod is sort of migrating towards PDA-land, maybe there is something to it after all, who knows.

      Personally, I think the Rio Karma looks good.

  • Different (Score:3, Funny)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:34PM (#7906631)
    the new model will differ slightly from the previous 20G one - for example, the 40G player will be 3 mm thicker and 12 grams heavier.

    and have a 40G drive instead of a 20G?
  • At 40GB, why the heck doesn't this thing not only have ogg and mp3 support, but also a few RCA jacks and support a few video codecs? They're licensing WMA anyways, so they could at least use WMV, in addition to all the open MPEG and OGM formats.

    40GB is roughly three weeks worth of MP3s, and most people outside of hardcore music enthusiasts will never accumulate nearly that many, and no one but semi-truckers would need to take that much with them. Video would be a very necessary complement to justify that

    • Re:If this thing is a portable 40GB... (Score:5, Informative)

      by grub ( 11606 ) <slashdot@grub.net> on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:39PM (#7906682) Homepage Journal

      Decoding video requires a lot more horsepower than audio. My Egoman MP3/VCD player will only play VCD when plugged into the wall. RCA jacks take up a lot of room on the board, it's easier to use a minijack -> RCA adapter cable (they're cheap)
    • no one but semi-truckers would need to take that much with them

      And for $50 you can have a portable that plays Mp3-CD's (about 150+ songs/disc at 128kbps), another $20 for a decent CD-wallet. Of course, still a lot of CD's to reach 40GB, but you don't really need *that* much and you could categorize them, etc.
    • no one but semi-truckers would need to take that much with them

      My Dad and a lot of other truckers use satellite radio now.

      He toasted his FM radio/Cassette that he uses as an amp for it and had me soldering new plugs for him at 8:30 xmas morning...

    • So I'll be sitting in front of a laptop or desktop, probably. And since the drive is like a USB 2.0 removable hard-drive, well, you know, not really an issue. You could even store the Nimo Codec pack, mplayer, or a bootable Movix distro on the drive.

      I mean, if it's 40GB, that better be HDTV quality video on there. Otherwise it's a waste.

  • Classy design? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Patik ( 584959 ) * <.cpatik. .at. .gmail.com.> on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:37PM (#7906664) Homepage Journal
    I don't know, I thought the PMP-100 [atozia.com] and the PMC-100 [atozia.com] looked much cooler. The first appears to have a bigger screen and less wasted space than the IHP-300.

  • 0GB version? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by magarity ( 164372 ) on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:39PM (#7906678)
    Be nice if there was a no-HDD included version; standard size 2.5 inch disks can be had mailorder for cheaper than the difference in the various models' prices. All mp3 makers are guilty of this. Of course, that would cut into their nice margins on the high capacity models so we won't see it. sigh

    • Re:0GB version? (Score:3, Funny)

      by Frac ( 27516 )
      Be nice if there was a no-HDD included version; standard size 2.5 inch disks can be had mailorder for cheaper than the difference in the various models' prices. All mp3 makers are guilty of this. Of course, that would cut into their nice margins on the high capacity models so we won't see it. sigh

      All product manufacturers are guilty of this. We need companies that will ship out nothing but a huge thick manual, so they can teach us where to mine the metal, cast the metal cover, etch out the circuit boards

  • Different Class of device than iPod (Score:5, Interesting)

    by piznut ( 553799 ) on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:39PM (#7906686)
    Its cheaper, but not quite as good looking or easy to use as the iPod...as an mp3 player

    The killer feature for the new iRiver devices is the recording ability. iPod and a handful of other devices can record voice at a low bitrate.

    The iRiver (IHP-120 and i am assuming the new models) can record from a digital input or microphone into a high quality mp3 or wav file.

    So in addition to being a decent mp3 platform, it could also stand to replace portable MD and DAT recorders. This is a great thing for musicians and bootleggers. While the onboard mic-preamp isn't the best in the world, it appears to be from what Ive read, suitable for most applications.
    • It's not a "new" feature, iRiver have had record-to-MP3 for quite some time now. IIRC it started with their iFP-300 series, which is getting on a bit now.
    • Wandering through the link of iRiver nordic, and looking at the Swedish site, the 20 GB player (no colour screen, 20 GB, older generation) is 5.495 Kr, which translates into $985.90 Canadian Loonies at today's exchange rate, or $765 US bucks for our southern neighbours.

      I may not have a math degree, but if the low end iRiver is more than the 40 Gig iPod, I really don't understand "cheaper".

      Of course, the Swedish price may not hold and may be artificially high at this point, but that's the only info I hav

    • Umm, sorry. The Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 [nomadworld.com] has been able to record with high quality line-in for quite some time. In fact, the Nomad Jukebox has the added feature of being able to record straight to WAV files without being degraded by an MP3 encoder. The iRiver, and most other devices, seem to lack this feature. THIS feature is what audio snobs demand, and anything that would replace a DAT recorder is going to have to do at least 44kHz lossless recording.

      However, the iRiver has a sweet form factor, and i
    • Its cheaper, but not quite as good looking or easy to use as the iPod...as an mp3 player

      I disagree. I think this thing is better looking than the ipod and much easier to use. One thing that really bothers me about the ipod is the lack of tactile feedback. To me, this is just another example of Apple's "form over function" mentality...like the "hockey puck" mouse. Maybe some people thought those looked good, but I think my logitech mouse is both nicer looking, AND it actually fits my hand.

      I agree th

  • Alpine/iPod integration (Score:5, Informative)

    by burgburgburg ( 574866 ) <splisken06NO@SPAMemail.com> on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:40PM (#7906687)
    Alpine has announced [prnewswire.com] that they will demonstrating at CES the first solution that allows users to connect/control their iPod through their in-car system. They'll be able to view playlist, artists, songs, etc. through the Alpine's receiver buttons. And the connector will also charge the iPod. To get more info, write to ipodready@alpine-usa.com.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:40PM (#7906696)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Require ID3 Tags? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Robert Hayden ( 58313 ) on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:41PM (#7906705) Homepage
    Does it require ID3 tags to play and navigate directories of MP3s like the iPOD? Or can I just copy over an artist/album/tracks sorted directory structure and navigate it that way?

    • people who don't properly tag their mp3s (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      make baby jesus cry.
    • Some people (like myself) use tags for navigation, but there is a file tree system that works very well for people that organize their music that way.
    • It works both ways, it is detected as an external HD via USB mass storage protocol (also works in linux), you just move the files over. Then you can index them and access via ID3 database, or not, whatever floats your boat.

    • Re:Require ID3 Tags? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Keeper ( 56691 )
      If it works anything like their cd based mp3 players, it will use the id3 tags if present, and fall back to filenames if not present.

      High level organization of files is done through the directory structure.

      IE:

      root\
      --> album1
      --> album2
      --> my favorites

      You can navigate through the directories and see the files in each subdirectory. I haven't noticed a way to see all of the files on the unit regardless of what directory they are in (but I've never really cared either...). You can have the player
    • You need Tag & Rename [softpointer.com]. It's easily the best ID3 tag editor out there. You can very easily generate tags for all your mp3s based on filenames or directory structures as well as doing group edits and renaming files based on the tags. Since it sounds like your collection is already ripped and organized, I'm sure the 30-day trial would be plenty for you to update your whole collection.
      • My collection is a little over 240GB in a nice RAID5 linux server on my LAN all sorted subdirectories by:

        Genre:Artist:Album:Track# - SongName.mp3

        99% of it ripped from my CDs too.

        I currently use an Archos 20GB MP3 player in the car, but that is only USB 1 and the Nicads last about an hour at best, so it's time to evolve to the NextGen models.
  • Or is it the other way around, I always get confused over stuff like this.
  • ... /. killed their server.
  • An imitations walkman that plays excerpts from oog the open source cage man.

  • It's got to make up a lot of ground (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dixie_Flatline ( 5077 ) <vincent.jan.gohNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:46PM (#7906770) Homepage
    One of the things that Steve Jobs mentioned in his keynote yesterday before announcing the entirely overpriced iPod Mini is that about 60% of the market is flash players that cost up to $200. 31% of the market is iPods. Approximately 7% of the market is all other non-iPod hard-drive based MP3 players. Nobody knows what an iRiver is. Most people don't CARE what an iRiver is. The iPod name has mindshare right now, and it'll take a lot more than even a massively superior product to dethrone the iPod. If someone wants to make an iPod killer, they have to have iPod killing marketing. Right now, people are using the word 'iPod' like they use 'Xerox' or 'Kleenex', as in "I hear iRiver makes a pretty cool iPod."

    It doesn't matter what it costs, either. The only people following non-iPod HD-based MP3 players are the people here on /. :P
    • it'll take a lot more than even a massively superior product to dethrone the iPod.

      If there's one thing Apple should have learned over the years, it's that extensive marketing will overcome virtually any technologically superior product. It'd be nice to see them on the winning side of this arrangement for a change.
      • I'm not entirely sure that you should be rooting for Apple to succeed with a technologically inferior product and a superior marketing strategy.

        Now if the iPod is a better product than the iRiver (it certainly seems like the button configuration of the iPod is better) and has a better price/performance ratio then sure, go Apple. But quite frankly if they hope to push overpriced and undergood products then I hope the fail dramatically.
    • If anyone can compete with Apple in this market it is iRiver. I own one of their cd based mp3 players, and it is a very nice unit.
    • Nobody knows what an iRiver is. Most people don't CARE what an iRiver is.

      At one time you could have said the same thing about Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or even Dell. But if/when you start selling a superior product and a better price you often times will gain mind share and market share.

  • Image mirror (Score:5, Informative)

    by markclong ( 575822 ) on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:46PM (#7906776)
    http://slushdot.org/mirror/iriver/board.php [slushdot.org]

    Minus all the other crap.
  • You can't see it right now because of the Slashdot effect, but the PMP-100 is the unit I like. Not just because of the name, it just looks sweeeet. Good-sized display screen, and a 20GB drive, which is easily enough for a decent number of TV episodes / movies.

    It does scream out "Portable Porn Device" though.

  • iPod killer... where have I heard that before? (Score:4, Funny)

    by freerangegeek ( 451133 ) * on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @05:49PM (#7906812)
    If I had a dollar for every "iPod killer" that's been announced, I could buy a nice new iPod mini!
  • I can run Linux on Ipod [sourceforge.net] but will one have the support to house my distro [uclinux.org]?

  • The page is in Korean, but most of the product descriptions in the pictures are in English.

    Funny, looks like smoke signals from over here.

  • looks ugly (Score:2, Interesting)

    by oohp ( 657224 )
    Why are they so ugly? The flash memory based models from iRiver look way better. As does the iPod but that's another story.

  • nice, but where's the firmware for iHP120? (Score:5, Informative)

    by PeterChenoweth ( 603694 ) on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @06:02PM (#7906988)
    A nice improvement to the existing iHP line, but iRiver should be concentrating on fixing the *numerous* bugs in the current firmware of the iHP-100/120 series. Such as ....

    1. Shuffle still isn't random (just all your tracks in a different order - but always the same order)

    2. Doesn't support any type of secure files.

    3. DB application can't handle OGG or WMA file tags, so you can only search by Artist/Album/Genre if it's an mp3 file.

    4. No on-the-fly playlist ability, and very limited playlist ability at all (only when using the Beta firmware that's been out since November).

  • It appears the first link is dead, here is another one: http://club.iriver.co.kr/column/view.asp?Page=1&Sr chItem=&SrchString=&idx=370

    Notice that the IHP-300 supports USB OnTheGo, which probably means you can transfer pics from your cam directly to it via USB cable (no computer involved), that makes also sense considering it has a color TFT screen.
  • All I want is a player with no disk drive, no built-in flash, just a Compact Flash slot. It doesn't need USB, Firewire, FM transceiver, microphone, or x-ray laser. It could be light and cheap. Why doesn't it exist?

    Of course it needs to support Ogg...

  • I just bought one (Score:5, Informative)

    by VividU ( 175339 ) on Wednesday January 07, 2004 @06:21PM (#7907209)
    The 20GB player. Here is super-quick review from a professional audio engineer (me).

    Pros:
    - The output sound is tight, crisp and full-bodied. The level is clean and hot, just the way I like it.
    - Plug-N-Play. No drivers, no nothing. Plug the USB cable and it shows up as a HD. Organize files however you like. By ID or standard directory structure.
    - The remote has its own tiny LCD dispay. Very cool.
    - USB 2.0 file transfer if very fast. I did 12GB while I ate a bowl of cereal.
    - Transfer & store any type of file
    - Its supports more codecs than I'll ever use.
    - OGG support. No DRM
    - Digital In and Out!
    - Analog In and Out!
    - Records to WAV and MP3
    - FM Radio!
    - Internal Microphone
    - External Mic jack (mic included)
    - Firmware upgradable
    - Quiet and fast
    - Its packaged with a real leather case and all the cables and adapters you'll ever need.

    Cons:
    - The GUI could use some work
    - The Joystick can be a pain
    - Navigation can be rough
    - Issues with Recording time limitations

    Its looks like the software faults can and will be upgraded through the firmware.

    Overall a great little package. Its not as slick as the iPod. But for less than the 20GB iPod I get a ton of more features.
    • The output sound is tight, crisp and full-bodied. The level is clean and hot, just the way I like it.

      I'm sorry, Mr. Audio Engineer, but I don't understand all those technical audio terms. Could you tell me what is the meaning of "tight, crisp and full-bodied" and also "clean and hot" in terms of S/N ratio, frequency response, and dB?

      Thanks.

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