New Sony Minidisc Players 436
Andy_R writes "Sony's has announced it's new new range of Hi-MD players at the CES show. The range of players (which should hit the shops in April) will start below $200 for a device that can function as a USB hard drive as well as storing a claimed 45 hours of music. The twist is that the data is stored on a new type of removable 1Gb media, a development of the minidisk format, with blanks costing about $7 each. The BBC have some more details including backwards compatibility with old-style minidisks and an ominous mention of 'built-in copyright protection' but I can't find anything on Sony's official site yet." Another reader reader submitted some pictures and specifications (pdf).
DRM on Old (and probably new) minidiscs. (Score:4, Informative)
Sony's last gasp (Score:2, Informative)
minidisc is now out of date so i think this is Sony's last push before resigning the format to the bin (along with their other failed formats)
also the hours of music quoted are for 44kbps music files using their lossy ARTRAC (remember it throws away 85% of the data) perhaps if they quoted MB storage space instead of this latest consumer scam of quoting songs (iPod and Jobs did the same) but not bitrate (hiding that in the small print)
all in all MW radio probably sounds better than a 44k ARTRAC file
sorry Sony , your media formats always suck, try concentrating on better quality hardware and stop trying to peddle your proprietry memory sticks, betamax, minidisc failures
Re:What's the point? (Score:5, Informative)
Personally, I've been eyeing a sony md player for a bit, but I think I'll hold off for the new 1gb md format to pan out a little. If nothing else, it'll drive the cost of the older-style players down a bit. Hopefully, the 1gb format will take off, though.
Now an annoying DRM is a different story. And that will be the only factor (for me) which will make or break it in the long run.
Copyright Protection Technology (Score:5, Informative)
4) Copyright Protection Technology
To prevent an illegal copying of digital content, "Hi-MD" incorporates OpenMG and MagicGate technology, already adopted in Memory Stick and Net MD for content management to ensure that music content stored on a "Hi-MD" disc will be encrypted. "Hi-MD" also conforms to the Serial Copy Management System (SCMS).
convenience (Score:2, Informative)
MiniDisks stay clean a lot better than CDs, and with the RW capabilities there, you can continue to add/remove songs and the like... MDs are smaller than CDs, and come in cool colors.
i dunno, improving the MD won't help anyone who has already adopted the format and with HDD MP3 players becoming so huge (iPod and the like), i doubt there will be any new adopters for the format... but if you weigh it all out, someone who travels alot (and has the input on their car reciever) MD v.s. CD... MD would win (if i could afford it)
MD is still good for audio production (Score:3, Informative)
I use my Sony Net-MD player with a condenser mic to make field recordings. The only problem with Sony and it's "Copyright Protection" is that it doesn't allow you to transfer audio over the USB connect FROM the MD player TO the computer.
So basically, any recordings you make need to be transfered analog into your computer's sound card.
There have been petitions in the past from the MD users community demanding Sony allow bi-directional USB transfers, but because Sony has it's music label/tech world schizophrenia, it's never going to happen.
Right now, the only thing that is reasonably priced and does do this is the Nomad 3 from Creative, but I want something with better A/D conversion than what it has.
Re:Minidisc audio quality vs. your avg. "MP3 playe (Score:3, Informative)
Minidisk market sectors? - Theaters (Score:3, Informative)
Are there any other segments where minidisks are standard?
Re:Discs are a good thing (Score:2, Informative)
Curious: exactly how large is your music collection? Mine is about 35G, and I have a 10G HD player. Even though it took quite a bit of time, I was able to weed out the stuff I never listen to in order to get it down to 10G. I occasionally have to rework things, but it works well.
As far as swapping the collection for a new one, and the over-listened tunes not remaining, I don't see that as a problem easily solved by playlists.
In any case, I'm a lazy ass, and creating a playlist is easier than burning a CD.
Re:Better A/D conversion? Not terribly relevant. (Score:2, Informative)
Optical line in doesn't mean a thing when you're recording from a analog microphone.
Those analog signals must be sampled to digital somehow, and the quality of the Analog->Digital convertor matters. Especially when it comes to recording off of microphones.
Re:Compatible with PC. What about Mac? Linux? (Score:5, Informative)
Furthermore, as portable, rewritable PC media, "Hi-MD" complies with USB format's Mass Storage Class
What do you think, Mac, Linux compatible?
Absolutely.
Guess what? EVERY USB Mass Storage Device uses FAT for storage. If you can connect a digital camera to it, you can attach this to it, because all digital cameras use FAT. That's how those USB readers can work, BTW... standardized storage format...
Pre Digital Hub Strategy (Score:2, Informative)
I did buy into MDs around '98 for portable audio and comp disks. I loved it then. But now it is far easier to arrange a tracks on a computer and burn them out to CD (for the car or friends) or MP3 player. Plus with MP3 (in the generic sense) doubling as removable storage, Sony is way to late and more than a few dollars short.
Additionally being a Mac person this announcement is worth less than the paper it was printed on. Grumble, grumble, NetMD, grrr, check in/check out bullshit, ricken, fricken.
Hello to the new memory stick. Yawn.
Re:What's the point? (Score:2, Informative)
- linear.
- mechanically complex
- unbelievably expensive
- There's no pre-recorded music available for them.
DAT isn't intended for consumers, its intended for making CD (or better) quality recordings. Who wants to carry around something with all the usability disadvantages of cassette tapes?
Also, the DRM used on these devices is simplistic. We're talking about 2 bits in the data stream. You can specify "make one digital copy" "make no digital copies" and "make unlimited digital copies". Beyond that, real high-end DAT recorder/players that use AES/BEU for their digital audio interconnect rarely even implement the copy protection, as they're intended for professional studios who don't want to deal with such crap. Compare this to digitally encrypted, signed music and licenses, and its a whole different ballgame. Hell, this stuff is less complex than macrovision, and thats essentially a joke.
--
lds
These things *are* useful (Score:3, Informative)
What i'd really like to know (can't glean from the links mentioned) is if i can directly access tracks recorded in the field from the PC interface - if so, that would be a significant advantage over the current generation of recorders.
The new Hi-MD players support USB file storage! (Score:4, Informative)
The unit can be used with either the 300MB (standard MD media) or 1GB (the new Hi-MD format) disks and draws power from USB so that the music player becomes a portable USB storage device. No idea whether it supports the USB mass storage standard or whether it has its own whacky way of doing things, but it's something that should have been possible from the start.
Any music stored on the device will be visible but protected and the device won't play standard music files if they're simply transferred to the data area. You still need to use SonicStage (the Sony equiv of iTunes) to transfer your files, although there are a few thirty party tools around (such as RealOne) which use the same drivers but sport a much nicer (and stable) interface.
Needless to say, a 1GB disk should be plenty for keeping documents and such around, perhaps even a bootable linux distro such as Knoppix can be adapted for this, assuming it supports standard USB mass-stroage. Now that'd be cool
Re:They screwed up something here.... (Score:3, Informative)
According to the PDF specification sheet, the actual data transfer rate of the Hi-MD discs is (a maximum of?) 9.83Mbit/sec, so appraching that of USB 1.1 flash devices.
Re:The Hi-MD supports PCM now. (Score:2, Informative)
################
2) High Quality Sound Recording and Playback "Hi-MD" incorporates ATRAC3plus high compression and sound quality audio compression technology, realizing extended length, near CD quality sound. By also adopting a non-compressible, linear PCM recording, "Hi-MD" compatible products enable users to enjoy the recording and playback of high-quality sound, close to the quality of commercial audio CDs.
################
(emphasis mine) Commercial audio CDs are 44100KHz.
Getting Around DRM with NetMDs (Score:2, Informative)
This was intended only for VIAO users (why they don't offer it to normal MD customers is a question for Sony Music division I'd Assume).
If you can get your hands on this (c'mon you know where cough cough -usenet- cough), you'll be converting and loving the lack of said DRM pickiness that is everywhere in the software that ships with the MDs now.
-JohnnySkidmarks
Re:What's the point? (Score:2, Informative)
The DRM might just be the same as all MD players/recorders use, and have always used; they all honour a "Digital original/copy" flag which tells them each original may only be digitally copied once, after which the copy is marked as a digital copy, and may not be digitally subcopied.
The effect is that every other copy must be analogue and repacked, thus degrading quality. This has turned out to be an acceptable balance between consumers' rights/convenience and publishers' concern, enabling the minidisc's market dominance.
Re:What's the point? (Score:2, Informative)
I can walk into the local mall and buy a minidisk at Target [target.com], Best Buy [bestbuy.com], and Circuit City [circuitcity.com].
You used to be able to get DAT recorders at MARS Music (before the chain went bankrupt last summer).
These are just US places. From the minidisc web sites, like MiniDisco [minidisco.com] it seems the things are even more popular outside the USA.
Re:Minidiscs as removable media (Score:3, Informative)
The servos, maybe, but the lens? You do know that the MD is not an optical medium, right?
My MD Walkman is at least 6 years old. It's been used lots, mostly with the same set of 20 or so disks, and I've not had any problems with the media. Much better than CD-Rs which start to die after a couple of years! MDs are re-recordable too; the walkman can split, reorder and join tracks - I don't see many MP3 players offering those features. Our band records all our live gigs on MD. It just works.
-- Steve