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A New HOPE on the Horizon 139

Posted by michael from the what-else-are-you-doing-this-weekend dept.
double-oh three writes "It's an even numbered year, and that means that 2600 is holding the party again this summer. The 5th HOPE conference has been announced and scheduled for July 9th to 11th(a Friday-Sunday weekend), again at the Hotel Pennsylvania in New York. This year's 'theme' for the conference is Propaganda, and if this is anything like H2k2, it'll be by the phone companies. And for those of you who are clueless, here's a roundup of the last HOPE con."
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A New HOPE on the Horizon More

A New HOPE on the Horizon

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  • 2600 and BART (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Loconut1389 ( 455297 ) on Friday January 16, 2004 @10:02AM (#7997295)
    My favorite thing about 2600 was their use of bart system, put in bart ticket, meet in the station underground, go back home, and go out the same terminal you came in, pay no fare total because you "travelled no distance". I thought that was slick.
  • Count me in. I'll be bringing Circus Atari and Night Driver. Just can't find those damn paddle controllers.

  • Watch out! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 16, 2004 @10:08AM (#7997330)
    These sorts of things are illegal under the current anti-terrorism laws.
    • Warning people ("potential terrorists") that these kinds of things are illegal under the current anti-terrorism laws will get you locked up in Guantanimo ba...

    • Re:Watch out! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by dubiousmike ( 558126 ) on Friday January 16, 2004 @12:28PM (#7998694) Homepage Journal
      While it might not be illegal, you would be foolish to think that you wouldn't be put on a "list" for attending.

      Now would this list make you less likely to get a higher level govt job? Would it get you a different color for the homeland's flight database? Will it not allow you to attend the next presidential visit in your area? Will it get you a phone/internet tap?

      Who can say for sure, but it is a lot more likely than if you didn't go.

      I am not encouraging people NOT to attend. It IS your right to go. But don't think they aren't taking a laundry list of those attending/facial records, ect.

      I am not usually a conspiracy theorist, but its shocking to see the parent modded up as funny and not interesting.

  • New Slashdot Poll: The 2600 Terrorists (Score:4, Funny)

    by Wacky_Wookie ( 683151 ) on Friday January 16, 2004 @10:09AM (#7997334) Journal
    How long do you think it will take the Dept. of Home Land Insecurity to declare HOPE a gathering of terrorists?

    1) 2-4 Hours

    2) 24-48 Hours

    3) 1 Week

    4) Sometime before the USA lands on Mars

    5) As soon as Dubya has his mourning coffee

    6) Time is a man made concept you insensitive clod!
    • As soon as they find out that someone is speaking about rot13, the FBI will plan to arrive just as soon as they have finished their donuts.

    • Re:New Slashdot Poll: The 2600 Terrorists (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      As soon as Dubya has his mourning coffee

      I knew the British added unnecessary u's to words, but that is overkill.

    • Before that.... SCO (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Before this happens, SCO will set up a booth to collect the $699 payment required for entry (thanks to some sap displaying Linux code as part of his presentation)
    • Never. Unless W somehow hears about it and shows up with his Star Raiders gamepad.
    • 5) As soon as Dubya has his mourning coffee

      So, is this coffee that he only drinks when he is really sad?

  • A New Hope? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ubergrendle ( 531719 ) on Friday January 16, 2004 @10:09AM (#7997340) Journal
    I was 99% sure this was going to be a Star Wars thread...

  • Propaganda OOP programmers (Score:3, Funny)

    by Nadsat ( 652200 ) on Friday January 16, 2004 @10:09AM (#7997341) Homepage
    There is an abstract class called Terrorism(Object o). 2600 points out that with propaganda all marginals are passed into the Abstract. It is the job of the Hope conference to instill Honor in all the OOP spin doctors in the world: Beware of Reckless OOP. There goal of a good hacker is to overload Terrorism(Object o) with something a bit more easy rider, while still properly passing deadly free radicals, with something a little more easy rider like Freedom(Object o). Are you with me on this????

  • And I thought that we were all screwed.

    Look for your friends, but don't trust to hope. It has forsaken these lands.

  • HOPE (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday January 16, 2004 @10:19AM (#7997408)
    HOPE is little more than a get together for criminals. For those who don't know, HOPE stands for Hackers on Planet Earth. Thats right, folks, hackers.

    I'm getting really tired of this "wink and a nod" attitude towards hackers. They are dangerous scofflaws.

    Any how, I hope the feds will be in attendance and taking notes on who shows up at this "conference".

    • Re:HOPE (Score:4, Insightful)

      by `Sean ( 15328 ) * <sean@ubuntu.com> on Friday January 16, 2004 @11:28AM (#7997993) Homepage Journal
      > Any how, I hope the feds will be in attendance and taking notes on who shows up at this "conference".

      I personally hope that many feds are there. At previous HOPE conferences I attended, it was a pleasure to be able to sit down with law enforcement agents from various three-letter-organizations and chat it up with them. They learned from me. I learned from them. And, overall, they're pretty cool guys. Besides, my file is filled with good stuff, so it doesn't really matter to me.

    • For those who don't know, HOPE stands for Hackers on Planet Earth. Thats right, folks, hackers.

      I'm getting really tired of this "wink and a nod" attitude towards hackers. They are dangerous scofflaws.

      And I am sick to death of people like you who continually misuse "hacker" to mean "computer criminal".

      A "Hacker" is an exceptionally skilled programmer, who is able to achieve exceptional results and solve difficult problems through the application of his skills, especially in the absense of adequate softwa
    • I sent a fax to the feds (there's a cross-agency public relations department I can't remember the name of right now). I mentioned I was a planner for H2K2, and we would LOVE them to show up and give a talk to hackers. I told them it might not be a very friendly audience, but it would be a great opportunity for the feds to present their points of view, and gather feedback.

      I'm still waiting for a response....

  • Social Engineering Panel (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dr_dank ( 472072 ) on Friday January 16, 2004 @10:19AM (#7997409) Homepage Journal
    By far, the biggest draw of the HOPE conventions over the years is the Social Engineering panel.

    Just watching illustrating what Mitnick wrote about in Art of Deception displayed before a live audience is well worth the price of admission.

  • make it stop (Score:3, Interesting)

    by gruntled ( 107194 ) on Friday January 16, 2004 @10:22AM (#7997436)
    Public displays of "hacker" culture have been overwhelmed by script kiddies, wannabees, media morons (disclaimer: I worked in the biz myself for 20 years) and intelligence/law enforcement types. DEFCON has become a joke; 2600 is even worse, catering to the average alienated junior high school student who still thinks anarchy rocks. Nearly all real analysis and argument take place on line these days.
    • DEFCON has become a joke; 2600 is even worse, catering to the average alienated junior high school student who still thinks anarchy rocks.

      Hasn't this bene what 'hacker gatherings' (whether through BBSes or physical conventions) always been?

      'k3wl' 12 y3aR oLd kiDZ?

    • There is something very simple you can do if you aren't impressed with the quality of the HOPE conferences...

      Come up with a worthwhile topic, put together a panel, formally submit it, and do the best job that you can to present it.

      I've spoken in the HOPE conferences, and so have a number of people in the industry with some worthwhile things to say... Wynn Schwartau... Greg Newby, many others, and some well known "hackers."

      There are other people - even if you don't agree with everything that they wil

  • ...to name the group was after Bob.

  • Have fun, kids (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Otter ( 3800 ) on Friday January 16, 2004 @10:25AM (#7997460) Journal
    And for those of you who are clueless, here's a roundup of the last HOPE con.

    And for those of you who are over 14, it's time to start applying your meager skills towards doing something useful with your life instead of writing "manifestos" denouncing the phone companies for stifling your creativity and fawning over some relic who exploited a default root password in 1986.

    • Except over the past three years, the employers of IT workers have been laying off and cutting wages left and right. IT unemployment over the past three years compared to the previous three years have been quite high. The owners of the means of production have blocked many people from "applying their skills" with their permission in order to try to generate profit for those owners. What avenue of pursuit would you suggest to those who just graduated with a computer science degree, when companies are not
  • I was on security at H2K2, was an interesting experience but I did not get to see many panels.

    Word of warning: Jello Biafra is perpetual motion. If he is there this time multiply his scheduled speaking time by 3 or 4 to get an estimate of how long he will talk/yell/rant/etc.

    If I go this time it will be as just a face in the mob and attend the panels.

    Actually, I did have a panel for H2K (Parents of Hackers I think was the title we agreed on) but could not go due to a last min. thing.

    • Jello Biafra (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Hoi Polloi ( 522990 ) on Friday January 16, 2004 @10:41AM (#7997564) Journal
      I had the pleasure of seeing Jello at a performance talk he gave at UMass sometime around the late 80's. It was about the Iraq war V1.0 and the Challenger disaster (covered a lot of ground, eh?). Jello wasn't the debacle that night though, it was the mass of students who couldn't get in to see him due high demand for tickets (first come first served). They pushed so hard on the doors they broke the glass and fell through. The state police took a bunch away and covered the door, then they put speakers outside so the mob could hear Jello also. It was loads of anarchistic fun.
      • I had the pleasure of seeing Jello at a performance talk he gave at UMass sometime around the late 80's. It was about the Iraq war V1.0 and the Challenger disaster (covered a lot of ground, eh?).

        The sad part is I saw him perform on a college campus tour in the late 90's and he was discussing those exact same things. I was very disappointed because I had heard him on a "spoken word" tape recorded several years earlier, and yet ... he covered little, if any new ground.

        Not only that, but I also met h
        • You find it hard to listen to the DKs because Jello cut in line at a hotel? Seriously now, wouldn't you try and do the same thing if you thought you were a VIP? There are A LOT bigger assholes than Jello in the music industry.
          I do agree with you about his speeches being very similar. I had the chance to go see him speak last year, but declined because I'd heard his recent CDs before, so I knew the material. Also, to be honest, it doesn't sound particularly entertaining to hear a guy talk about politics for
    • Hey Montag sup man...

      Anyway I worked the last one with Montag and the rest of the goons. The problem with working the con or any con for that matter is you just don't get to catch any of the speakers, that you really want to or go to any events that you really want to. Its nice and all but do you really want to work the con, pay to get in, pay for transport, pay for the hotel and not really see what your intrested in?

      It seems kinda stupid to me. Not sure if I'm gonna work this one this time.
  • Imagemap that can't be rendered in Moz 1.3?

    Move along, nothing to see here, not worth the effort.

    • apparantly, updating your software isn't worth the effort either...

      *cough* 1.6 *cough*
      • Working okay on my 1.4 here...
      • Ooooo, my browser is 9 months old! OMFG how can I live down the embarassment. I should be using Mozilla Firebird 0.7 or better yet a nightly build just so I can be cool at Slashdot!

        BTW, imagemaps are just about as old as the internet and could be rendered in Netscape 2.0, so either there is a bug in Moz 1.3 OR they aren't using standard html. Funny how it works under IE 5, a program that is 3 years old.

        *cough* fuck you *cough*
    • " Imagemap that can't be rendered in Moz 1.3?
      Move along, nothing to see here, not worth the effort."

      Apparently it doesn't work very well under Linux 0.1 either. Nor does it look quite right with Internet Explorer 2.0 or Netscape 1.0.

      Guess what - when you use old/ancient versions of software, some things are not going to work.

      Moderators: Please don't mod this up, especially not as 'insightful' - it's just common sense.

      • WTF,

        Moz 1.3 is like less than a year old and you calling it ancient ?

        Since when is this ancient:

        Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312

        We'll excuse me for sticking with something that works. Not everyone feels the need to upgrade ever time a new point version comes out...

        • "We'll excuse me for sticking with something that works."

          As I recall, this thread began with you complaining about it not working, yes?

          All I said was that if it's not working, you should try upgrading it.

          • Well, it has been my experience that in 99% of the time when a page does not render under Moz, it is usually because the page uses non-standard, poorly written, and/or MS-specific tags, not be cause of a bug in Moz. I guess I was all too subtley pointing out the irony that a so-called "hacker" website can only write a page that can be rendered in IE!

            "All I said was that if it's not working, you should try upgrading it."

            No, you said

            "Apparently it doesn't work very well under Linux 0.1 either. Nor does
            • "I guess I was all too subtley pointing out the irony that a so-called "hacker" website can only write a page that can be rendered in IE!"

              Yeah... except that this [slashdot.org] guy just said that it works fine under 1.4. Workes fine for me with Mozilla 1.5 and Firebird 0.7.

              "You beratted me for having "old" "ancient" software and went on to compare my Moz 1.3 (9 months old) with software, the newest of which is 6 years old."

              No, I berated you for complaining about something not working on a browser that's 3 point ver
              • "No, I berated you for complaining about something not working on a browser that's 3 point versions back from the newest available (about versions back if you count all the x.x.x, alpha, beta, and RCs). Also, the newest version is not six months old, it's three days old (as of the time of this writing). The version before that, 1.5.1, had been released on November 26th. Did you ever bother to look at the Mozilla web site before making that claim?"

                No you called it ancient and proceeded to compare it to a g
  • With episodes 7, 8, and 9 on the way, I need a new hope : (


    --
    In London? Need a Physics Tutor? [colingregorypalmer.net]

    American Weblog in London [colingregorypalmer.net]

  • My HOPE experience (Score:4, Interesting)

    by gpinzone ( 531794 ) on Friday January 16, 2004 @11:04AM (#7997771) Homepage Journal
    I was working for the New York Transit Authority back when a fellow by the name of Red Balaklava claimed he would reveal "secrets" about the MetroCard system. I got sent as an "undercover agent" along with a few people from the contractor that produced all the MetroCard equipment. It was a big waste of time. Nothing was revealed other than a talk about how doors were designed on token booths and how it's a safety issue. As a matter of fact, he advised people at the conference that trying to hack the system to save a $1.50 (the fare at the time), is a waste of time.

    I had to sit through other equally useless presentations, like how html code needs to be designed so it's compatible in lynx in order for libraries and poor people who can only afford 386 computers can surf the Internet. (I shit you not!) What I learned from the HOPE conference is that most "hackers" (if we can agree these were hackers) are paranoid and generally misinformed about a great many things. The successful ones are those that had access to equipment and inside information. This Red Balaklava guy was a token booth clerk in disguise (our security people recognized him under his ridiculous mask). However, he had no real knowledge of how the system worked other than what he gleaned from the patent office's description and his own speculation...which was inaccurate to say the least.
    • I had to sit through other equally useless presentations, like how html code needs to be designed so it's compatible in lynx in order for libraries and poor people who can only afford 386 computers can surf the Internet. (I shit you not!)

      Well, if you code it right (XHTML + CSS) it will work just fine in Lynx, anyway.

      Besides, hardcore CLI junkies are probably going to use links now, anyway (I do).

    • "I had to sit through other equally useless presentations, like how html code needs to be designed so it's compatible in lynx in order for libraries and poor people who can only afford 386 computers can surf the Internet. (I shit you not!) "

      Not only is that not useless, but if you can view your page with lynx then you know a blind person can navigate it, too, using text-to-speech programs. Depending on where you work, this can be required by LAW.

      I suppose if you don't want disabled and disadvantaged peop
      • The "standards" for accessibility does not mean the same thing as "lynx compatible." For example, image alt tags don't help visually impaired folk that use text-to-speech converters. Conversely, tables can contain information that can be useful to visually impaired people, but have no benefits to lynx users.
      • That's all fine, but why would you go to a hackers conference to hear an entire panel on web accessibility for the disabled?
    • If Red didn't reveal anything, then why is he now a convicted felon because of what he revealed?
  • On the Information Desk, for well.. most of it, I guess... we wound up providing some light entertainment as well, in the end.

    Anyone there, might well remember me as 'The British Guy'
  • I was under the impression 2600 were still talking about how awesome it WAS back in the day.
  • Planning has begun for HEX2005 [hex2005.org], the next conference in the HEU, HIP, HAL series. Sunlight, tent networking, friendly people, interesting talks and no marauding kids.

    International visitors currently don't have their fingerprints recorded when entering the Netherlands.

  • 1994? 1997? 2000? 2004?

    I dunno, I thought it was every 3 years, but I guess they're skipping a year...

    • You forgot H2K2 (2002).
    • At first it was every three years.
      1994
      1997
      2000

      Then it switched to every two years.

      2002
      2004
      2006 *

      Next, it will be every year

      2007*
      2008*
      2009*

      and then twice a year

      spring and fall 2010 *
      spring and fall 2011 *
      spring and fall 2012 *

      Then once a quarter, once a month, twice a month, and so on.

      I expect that by 2020 we should be having these once a day.

      * anticipated future date.

  • H2K2 was a bit dull (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bahamutirc ( 648840 ) on Friday January 16, 2004 @11:45AM (#7998209) Homepage

    I went to H2K2 and found it to be fairly dull. Some things to point out:

    • Internet connectivity was worse than dialup. We (my brother and I) had to go to Bryant Park and hop on NYC wireless to get online.
    • The panels were dull and uninformative. I actually fell asleep through most of them.
    • You're supposed to mix and meet people, but they had all the tables "reserved" for specific 2600 groups. If you weren't in a 2600 group, then you had to find space in the other room with all the POS machines.
    • There is, of course, an elitist mentality among many of the attendees, which makes conversations about technology a little difficult.

    There were two things that I did enjoy while I was there. One was the lockpicking session: I've never seen someone so good at picking locks before. The other was this hysterical documentary about script kiddies called Owned, which I'd like to have a copy of but can't seem to find anywhere.

    But just being in Manhattan alone is worth the trip. That's one hell of an amazing city.

    • There's a lot of time to get involved in planning this year's HOPE. Start thinking about possible speakers and topics.

      Internet connectivity was worse than dialup.
      The conference had a T1, which was sometimes saturated. I didn't think it was that bad, but your mileage may have varied depending on when and where you connected (and who was trying to flood/DDoS the wireless access point you were using)

      they had all the tables "reserved" for specific 2600 groups
      I think you weren't paying attention o

  • I thought that Lucas finally said "The hell with it" and had decided to completly reshoot episode IV

  • I've been - here is what I remember (rambling) (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Captain Rotundo ( 165816 ) on Friday January 16, 2004 @12:35PM (#7998797) Homepage
    I went to H2K figureing what the heck, I think its needless to say, but at 22 I was well past the median age at the time :) of attendees at least. And most of the criticism here is valid, a lot of the talks were by people who thought they knew far more than they did, and a lot of the guys are paranoid.

    Around the same time I saw a 2600 panel at ICON (a sci-fi con on LI) and I forget the guys name but one of the little lackies that was on Off The Hook all the time was going on about how they track Metrocards, I got in an arguement with him because I said that it was possible they tracked them so they could get a better idea of traffic flow, not so they would know what a bunch of 16 year old script kiddies were up to (I put it nicer)

    But H2K was around the time of the MPAA v 2600 trial and RMS showed up, and I have to say after watching him speak I haven't used a proprietary OS since (except when working with someone elses computer of course) I am even the only one in my office running GNU/Linux for all my work. I always believed in free software but I found his talk very enjoyable and it was enough to push me over the edge.

    And of course there was the "Freedom Downtime" showing with long delays (nothings more fun than sitting in an over crouded room full of tennage 'hackers' while they can figure out how to project a movie) while the film was amatuerish and basically a large Michael Moore derivation it was none-the-less enjoyable.

    I think the Mitnick by phone (couldn't get permission to leave the state of california at the time) social engineering panel was very good. Eric called Verizon or AT&T to enquire about a memo about hope, and they bought that he was an employee hook line and sinker (till the croud yelled.

    Cult of the Dead cow was retarded, and enlighting because I learned how much I actually completely disagree with a lot of what they stand for when they arent acting like buffoons on stage.

    Jello was entertaining, of course it was a typical left-wing political "they're are fucking us" speech.

    I think the best part was the MPAA v 2600 Mock trial in which I manged to get a good portion of the crowd to boo and hiss at eric when he walked in (in hannabal lecter garb no less). - it was a delightful mix of real lawyer speak, and really fun jabs.

  • I Was At H2K2 (Score:2, Informative)

    by Matty_ ( 74368 )
    I was in attendance in 2002 at H2K2.

    I didn't attend a ton of panels. I picked out some of the interesting ones, to me, and thought most of them were worth my time.

    I wasn't terribly interested in all the politics, or Jello Biafra. I'd like to see more technical stuff, but I know that politics are part of what 2600 is all about.

    The entertainment was okay. The show put on by Cult of the Dead Cow was very boring. I hope they never do it again. On the other hand, I really liked some of the DJ's who compo
  • When you use acronyms in an article that some readers may not be familiar with, take the time to explain them.
  • Wow, a new definition for "clueless" - someone who's unfamiliar with an acrynym which refers to some hacker meeting. (I don't want to sound pissy lest I get moderated down for being a crank, but hey, you're either extending the "clueless" label to a ridiculously large proportion of the world's population, or you're diluting its effectiveness and impact when applied to genuine idiots... let's not lose this expressive word to overuse like we lost "dork" or "geek"!)

  • No HOPE (Score:2)

    by po8 ( 187055 )

    Amazing. Almost 100 words in the article on HOPE, without once managing to mention that it stands for "Hackers On Planet Earth", or give us "clueless" the slightest idea what it's about (a sort of social-minded hackers' conference with some relation to 2600 Magazine).

    Until I started clicking on slow links, I assumed it stood for "HOtel PEnnsylvania", where it was being held...

    • Amazing. Almost 100 words in the article on HOPE, without once managing to mention [what] it stands for[], or give us "clueless" the slightest idea what it's about

      Not to mention the "helpful link for the clueless" to ANOTHER article that ALSO doesn't explain it.

  • A whole bunch of us on the left coast [see: Los Angeles] have been working on getting our own convention off the ground. We're calling it LayerOne [layerone.info] and it's a bit more for the Slashdot set then it is for the h4x0rs.

    We're currently taking papers until March 14th from any interested parties who would like to speak on a broad range of topics. Anything from copyright issues to social software to VoIP is fair game.

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