Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Kazaa Offices Raided

Comments Filter:
  • by andih8u (639841) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:00AM (#8199253)
    Did they think they had a slew of mp3s sitting around on cds in their homes? I know that raiding the offices and homes of execs is fairly common in accounting scandals and the like, but this seems a bit overkill.
  • Legal? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by s0rbix (629316) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:01AM (#8199255)
    How is Kazaa to blame for the transfer of pirated media across its networks? Should we shutdown the alleys because people sell drugs there? Ridiculous. I hope the MIPI gets screwed in the courts for this one.
    • oh for fscks sake, you fool.
      alleys were not built for drug dealing. kazaa was built for media piracy, no matter what anyone else may claim. simple as that.

  • by MillionthMonkey (240664) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:01AM (#8199258)
    At last, someone has finally gotten in trouble for bundling spyware in their products!

  • by jdifool (678774) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:02AM (#8199260) Homepage Journal
    -Hi, may I help you ?
    -All your offices are belong to us*

    *with Aussie strong accent, plz.

    Regards,
    jdif

  • Uh (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mkro (644055) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:05AM (#8199267)
    MIPI obtained an Anton Pilar order - which allows a copyright holder to enter a premises to search for and seize material that breaches copyright without alerting the target through court proceedings
    This "copyright is holier than God Himself" crap is corrupting the law. I don't like bad analogies, but everyone remembers the example with the father of raped girl being the judge in the trial. That an interest group is doing the police's work is unacceptable. (Yes, I know the BSA is operating in a similar way, but that is no excuse.)
    • Re:Uh (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Crypto Gnome (651401) on Friday February 06, 2004 @06:30AM (#8199616) Homepage Journal
      I think it's imnportant to note that:

      The BSA has ZERO (extenuating/special) legal force behind them.

      And YES I am specifically talking about in the US.

      They basically are a business offering to audit you. They fact that they're making their offers with intentionally intimidating letters written in the best of legalspeak is neither here nor there.

      They have ZERO legal rights for search-and-seizure or any such like (until, of course, they can prove to a judge "probable cause" or other similar evidence just like anyone else who wants to request a search warrant).

      These anti-music/movie-piracy moguls , on the other hand, have had several particularly nasty laws passed which give them FULL LEGAL SANCTION to act more like a police force than any other business in the pursuit of evidence and/or prosecution.

      So basically no, the BSA is *not* operating in a similar way. The BSA just TALK BIG and hope to scare you. The *AAs of the US are businesses with powers significantly similar to The Police Force.
  • erm, ok. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by CAIMLAS (41445) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:05AM (#8199268) Homepage
    Ok, this sounds a lot more like a police state than anything the Patriot Act allows (at least in the letter of the law and not its interpretation). Raiding homes in addition to business sites? For what, IP infringement?

    What kind of freedoms do these goons get, anyway, when they raid? Do they take everything, bash down doors, and the like, as the article implies (and as would likely occur under the Patriot Act)?

    If this kind of thing is valid, I don't see where so many .au slashdotters get off saying that the US is a police state. What bollix and hypocricy.
    • Re:erm, ok. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Jugalator (259273) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:48AM (#8199470) Journal
      If this kind of thing is valid, I don't see where so many .au slashdotters get off saying that the US is a police state. What bollix and hypocricy.

      Where's the hypocrisy in that??

      If your own country act like this, can't you comment about other countries where police can do the same?
  • No Biggie (Score:5, Funny)

    by illuminata (668963) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:05AM (#8199269) Journal
    MIPI just got confused. They didn't realize that a file sharing network didn't include physical files.

    Besides, with a name like MIPI, could you really stay mad at them for that long?
  • third of nine (Score:5, Informative)

    by thirdofnine (702646) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:08AM (#8199283)
    Channel Nine in Sydney reported that they also raided Telstra Head Office, Monash University and the University of NSW, all for file trading.

    Third of Nine

  • Nazis (Score:5, Funny)

    by Omni Magnus (645067) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:08AM (#8199284)
    I am guessing that throughout the world, the different recording associations got into a contest to see who could become the most Nazi in their tactics. Until now, RIAA had the lead. To counter this, the RIAA will probably round up all of the file traders into camps. This will allow them to win.
  • Not likely (Score:5, Insightful)

    by radicalskeptic (644346) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [enotirt]> on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:08AM (#8199287)
    MIPI general manager Michael Speck told ZDNet Australia the order was specifically targeted at the operators of the Kazaa network. "This is not about individuals, this is about the big fish," said Speck. "This is a signal that Internet music piracy is finished in Australia."

    Yes, stopping Kazaa will end music piracy in Australia. Because nobody has ever heard of


    None of which look like they're going away.
    • Re:Not likely (Score:3, Informative)

      by CAIMLAS (41445)
      You forgot:

      - BitTorrent [bitconjurer.org]
      - Shareaza (gnutella2) [shareaza.com]
      - eDonkey2000 [edonkey2000.com]
      - FTP [wikipedia.org] - with IPs traded amongst friends/etc. (a crude P2P, in a sense)
      - as well as a slew of others I'm not aware of, I'm sure.

      All this knowledge simply from being online for a couple years. Imagine what a hardcore file trader is aware of.
    • Re:Not likely (Score:4, Informative)

      by rock_climbing_guy (630276) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:56AM (#8199493) Journal
      Correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't the Kazaa network designed so that it doesn't rely on a central server? In that case, even if the company disappears, the network should still be around as long as people are wanting to use it to trade music.
      • Re:Not likely (Score:5, Informative)

        by 0x0d0a (568518) on Friday February 06, 2004 @08:57AM (#8200118) Journal
        Correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't the Kazaa network designed so that it doesn't rely on a central server? In that case, even if the company disappears, the network should still be around as long as people are wanting to use it to trade music.

        You are correct, but your conclusion is not (and it's not your fault, either -- it's good ol' politics and business obscuring good clean engineering).

        Kazaa operates in a fairly decentralized manner. At one point, the FastTrack network (what Kazaa uses internally) was open. However, the protocol was reverse engineered (by the GiFT project members and others), and third party clients started popping up. The FastTrack folks sold licenses to use their network -- plus, the use of an open protocol was detrimental to the client vendors, like Kazaa, as it meant that users could choose a (nicer) spyware-free client. The protocol was modified to contain an authentication system that *is* centralized. If Kazaa (the company) won't authorize you, you can't use the network.

        The addition of the authentication system was a huge step back from an engineering standpoint, but a huge jump forward from a business one -- it make Kazaa very lucrative.
  • by Zog The Undeniable (632031) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:11AM (#8199297)
    The words "deckchairs", "rearranging" and "Titanic" spring to mind. Kazaa may be today's Napster, but unless I'm very much mistaken, P2P is just as popular as in the Napster days. The **AA can shut it down and it won't make the slightest bit of difference. I'm sure the big sharers were making plans to move to a different P2P network anyway, what with the lawsuits flying round.
  • Anton Pillar order (Score:4, Informative)

    by DreamerFi (78710) <(john) (at) (sinteur.com)> on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:11AM (#8199300) Homepage
    The article (I read it, sorry - I'll hand in my slashdot ID at the end of this posting) mentions an "Anton Pillar order [freedomfight.ca]. From that article:

    One of the most painful aspects of all is the requirement after the order is served, usually within 14 days, to provide documentary evidence to the court, which PROVES that you own the software that is the subject of the court order (and may extend to PROVING that ALL software is legally acquired), by showing software compliance registers (an inventory approach), license numbers, discs and manuals, AND originals of all invoices from the SUPPLIERS of the software that you own.


    -John
    • by erroneus (253617)
      Don't you just love this "guilty until proven innocent" bullshit?

      Not only is the notion morally bankrupt, but it can bankrupt the innocent people while trying to prove innocense.

      But here's a question: I have read somewhere that in europe they have consequences for being wrong in filing a lawsuit. In other words, if you sue someone and it turns out you're wrong, you may have to pay the defendant damages in addition to paying their legal costs. I forget what this is called but it's one hell of a nice det
      • by cthugha (185672) on Friday February 06, 2004 @07:49AM (#8199838)

        If someone brings a frivolous action then they're likely to have costs awarded against them on an indemnity basis (as opposed to costs on a standard basis if they just lost without having been shown to have acted frivolously). Furthermore, a lawyer who assists in bringing a case s/he knows is baseless and is done for some ulterior purpose is likely to be forced to indemnify the client for costs, and may face disciplinary proceedings.

        Both the crime and tort of barratry have, however, been abolished in most Australian jurisdictions.

  • by darnok (650458) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:13AM (#8199308)
    The ZDNet article points out that if all the "pirated" tracks in Australia were purchased for $A0.99, then the record companies would be $2b better off.

    As of now, my understanding is that Apple sells tracks for $US0.99, and is in pretty close to a breakeven state for iTunes (this may have changed recently, as surely the sheer volume going through iTunes would cause them to move into profit at some point). Regardless, it seems that $US0.99 is pretty close to the breakeven point, and you'd assume the breakeven cost in Australia would be no lower than that given the population is so small - let's cut the record companies some slack and assume $US0.90 is the breakeven point for online music sales in Australia.

    $A0.99 translates to $US0.76. Now, since it costs $US0.90 to provide a downloadable music track, Kazaa is actually *saving* the record companies $US0.14 per downloaded track. By my calculation, the 850,000 tracks downloaded via Kazaa haved saved Australian record companies $US119,000 in providing that service.

    What's that? Bogus use of statistics, you say?...
  • Raided?! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by truesaer (135079) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:14AM (#8199315) Homepage
    I thought only the cops could performs raids! Thank god this is in australia....if Fritz Hollings has his way we will probably have special music industy SWAT teams roaming the country soon.
    • 5, Funny? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by trezor (555230) on Friday February 06, 2004 @09:30AM (#8200299) Homepage

      Is this moded +5 Funny, because we all have given in and realised that this is the future?

      I mean, it's not funny! It's not even unlikely with the development we see worldwide these days (weak goverments, mighty corporations).

      I'd give this post +5, Apocalyptical yet realistic, but for some odd reason that moderation doesn't exist... Oh. And now I can't moderate.

  • by Kalroth (696782) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:14AM (#8199318)
    Sherman Networks would be bloody stupid to have anything illegal (music/software/etc) on any of their computers and I really doubt they had anything.

    This just seems like the MIPI along with the rest of the record industry is trying to harass Sherman Networks into going away. Personally I don't like/use KaZaa or any other P2P utility, but I think it's a necessary evil.

    Oh well, if they should manage to close down KaZaa, there's plenty of underground alternatives for the (ab)users. Seems like wasted resources from a desperate industry.
  • by Gldm (600518) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:14AM (#8199319)
    (shot of men in riot gear overturning desks, rifling through offices and smashing computers)

    Voice in aussie accent: Search engine!

    (shot of Fosters can)

    Voice in aussie accent: Beer!
  • Dammit! (Score:3, Funny)

    by chrispl (189217) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:15AM (#8199325) Homepage
    And I just got WAY into Australian pop music! Now I'll never get my fix.
  • What this is about (Score:5, Interesting)

    by eclectro (227083) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:19AM (#8199346)
    1) Message Sending. They want to scare file traders into thinking that nobody is beyond the long reach of music executi^H^H^H^H the law. Thus stopping supposed music swapping.

    2) They want to see if KAZAA/Sharman are keeping track of who the heavy users are. Thus KAZAA would know about illegal file trading, and be partly liable for copyright infringement.

    3) KAZAA/Sharman networks profit by looking the other way. However, if they are actively working to enhance "reliable sources" for file trading, that would look pretty bad.

    4) Any inter-office memos/emails relating to the above.

    It will be interesting to see exactly how private user's data really is. You would think that Sharman would (or should have) anticipated such a move by the recording industry.

    just my .02

  • by ElDooderino (542228) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:26AM (#8199376) Homepage
    Of all the subtle and not-so-subtle evils of the Patriot act, it is, at least to my knowledge, employed soley by the government/gov agencies.

    This situation in Australia seems not too dissimilar to SCO busting into Linus' house with presumeably armed gov. officials and confiscating everything.

    It's corporate terrorism.
    • by villoks (27306) on Friday February 06, 2004 @07:45AM (#8199823) Homepage Journal
      Well,

      This has happened before in the USA and other countries, too. For example Cult of Scientology used to be famous for its raids to the critics' homes (Zenon's case [google.com],other cases [google.com]

      The situation is also getting worse in Europe, because the upcoming IPR enforcement directive will greatly strenghen Anton Pillar orders in all member states (unless we will manage to mount enough public pressure to stop the process, which is unlikely but not totally impossible - contact your MEPS today!)

      V.
  • by letdownjournals (737635) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:35AM (#8199414)
    ... I'm using a Mac.

    Wait...
  • by simrook (548769) on Friday February 06, 2004 @05:48AM (#8199472)
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose the following;

    RIAA/MIPI/"Recording Industry" has been conducting police raids in the United States out on the streets, handing out false tickets on false pretenses, etc... This began occuring over a month ago. Since then, they have lost key decisions in the courts, both in US and Europe, and things are looking bad for them. Now, they are beginning to conduct actual raids on property under obscure laws outside of the United States - obviously an intimidation tatic for those of us in the United States.

    Now... why is this good you ask?

    Because the day will come when an RIAA representative will knock at my university door and demand to see recipets for all my jazz mp3's (legally and educationaly obtained) I have laying around my harddrives. When this happens, hello Supreme Court.

    This series of events is giving us a very clear picture: The RIAA is a dying animal who is now lashing out in any means necessary. Non governmental agencies playing cops - be it here or austrilla - is a fundemental violation of human liberty - which is a value upheld by the UN and the World Court (which Austrilla is a member of). Not that this really matters since no one is going to do anything about it, at least right now.

    Later on, we are going to see events like these help us in a completely different court though - the court of public opinion. Isn't it easy to see a Dateline episode being made of this event? Isn't it easy to connect the dots and see that the RIAA and their chums are just doing this so the average American thinks that their home could be raided by Will Smith and his men in black protecting his copyright? Isn't it easy to see that the Average American would go apeshit if the RIAA actually tried to enter their house, and they later found out it was completely against the law?

    Let's return to the orignal question. Why is this good?

    Because the RIAA and every incarnation of it is pushing the very lines of human rights and freedoms that have been affirmed around the globe since the end of World War II.

    I have never seen America stand down in the face of a constitutional violation, never. Hell, even some of my republican friends acknowledge Roe v. Wade. Let the RIAA come and try to impose this scare tatic here in the USA. I fore one can't wait for this good thing to happen. Two days after they try to enter a house in the US (legally or illegaly) Scallia and Rehinquist will join forces and strike the RIAA back to the seventh circle of hell from which it spawned.

    Be happy with the RIAA's actions - it's a sign the end is near.

    - The Ever Defiant Simrook

    (p/s - All spelling errors are mine and mine alone.)
  • by Neo-Rio-101 (700494) on Friday February 06, 2004 @06:03AM (#8199519)
    I think they're hoping to find pirated or illegal ANYTHING in the executive houses or anything of Sharman's networks.

    I think their plan is to do a raid and even if it turns up ONE slightly dodgy file, they're going to use that to link it with Kazaa and music piracy... which may give them a leg to stand on in court.

    The issue is this: these days its pretty damn hard to find a single PC out there without one slightly dodgy file on it.
  • by Quizo69 (659678) on Friday February 06, 2004 @06:07AM (#8199530) Homepage
    I've started a political party which is currently looking for 500 members to get ourselves on the Federal ballot this upcoming election:

    www.neteffect.org.au

    If you want to have a representative in parliament who actually understands how this type of behaviour is a bad thing, and do something about it, then I recommend you visit our site and read through what we have to offer.

    It's time that we Aussies had a REAL "younger generation" to represent our views instead of a 42 year old "young-un"; someone who knows what a frag is, someone who cares about our online rights and someone who understands the pickle we're in regarding current copyright/patent laws.

    Oh, and someone (me of course) who's a regular Slashdot poster....

    At the very least have a look at our policies and forum - I think you'll find that we're very much aiming to be a real force for change in Australia.
  • by dominion (3153) on Friday February 06, 2004 @06:11AM (#8199541) Homepage
    First, go to this link: www.dfat.gov.au/missions/ [dfat.gov.au].

    Once there, look up the nearest Australian consulate. Then, give them a call and tell them that you're furious that they would allow this kind of manipulation at the hands of the recording industry.

    Be tactful, polite, but firm. Practice what you're going to say. Don't swear, and don't say anything rash or dangerous to your own freedom. (We need you out of jail, so you can join the GNU/United Front militias in the Great Copyright Civil War of 2016)

    The RIAA/MPAA may have billions of dollars, and governments all over the world at their beck and call, but what we have is a whole lot stronger: We've got the Slashdot Effect.

    They've got the guns, we've got the numbers.
  • by John Seminal (698722) on Friday February 06, 2004 @06:13AM (#8199545) Journal
    MIPI obtained an Anton Pilar order - which allows a copyright holder to enter a premises to search for and seize material that breaches copyright without alerting the target through court proceedings - yesterday from Justice Murray Wilcox, and began raiding premises in Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria this morning searching for documents and electronic evidence to support its case against the peer-to-peer companies.

    Since when can someone search another person's property? Who is to say they did not take data or information not related directly to finding violations of law? At least if it was the police searching, you could have a court determine what is related to the specific law, and what is not. Who is to say they will not use items found unrelated to the copywrite issue, but which can still cause embarrasment, and use that information against them? It would be the equivelant of person B searching the house of person A for "copywrite violation" but finding tax records, photos of your lover, your address book of friends, etc...

    • I guess the good ol' US of A is still the highest bastion of personal and business privacy in the world eh? Yeah this happened in Australia... not that I have a prob with Australians mind you... but well it appears that they have different laws 'down under'.
    • Since when can someone search another person's property? Who is to say they did not take data or information not related directly to finding violations of law? At least if it was the police searching, you could have a court determine what is related to the specific law, and what is not.

      Next week: Sharman networks search the offices and homes of the MIPI, any nearby U.S. diplomat, and their lawyers. They find copies of Kazaa light, a program that exploits Sharman's IP and network infrastructure illegaly.

      W
  • by Jeffv323 (317436) on Friday February 06, 2004 @06:18AM (#8199568)
    "MIPI obtained an Anton Pilar order ? which allows a copyright holder to enter a premises to search for and seize material that breaches copyright without alerting the target through court proceedings ? yesterday from Justice Murray Wilcox, and began raiding premises in Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria this morning searching for documents and electronic evidence to support its case against the peer-to-peer companies."

    Holy run-on sentence, Batman! Jeez...
  • by ratzmilk (137380) on Friday February 06, 2004 @06:23AM (#8199587)
    We have Anton Pillar orders here in Oz because we are part of the British Commonwealth and the Queen of England is our Head of Start, and one of their (our) Lords made the follow ruling.

    In Anton Piller K.G. v. Manufacturing Processes Ltd., [1976] 1 All E.R. 779 at 782 Lord Denning stated:

    "Let me say at once that no court in this land has any power to issue a search warrant to enter a man's house so as to see if there are papers or documents there which are of an incriminating nature, whether libels or infringements of copyright or anything else of the kind. No constable or bailiff can knock at the door and demand entry so as to inspect papers or documents. The householder can shut the door in his face and say, 'Get out.' That was established in the leading case of Entick v. Carrington (1765), 19 State Tr. 1029. None of us would wish to whittle down that principle in the slightest. But the order sought in this case is not a search warrant. It does not authorize the plaintiff's solicitors or anyone else to enter the defendants' premises against their will. Id does not authorize the breading down of any doors, nor the slipping in by a back door, nor getting in by an open door or window. It only authorizes entry and inspection by the permission of the defendants. The plaintiff's must get the defendants' permission. But it does do this: it brings pressure on the defendants to give permission. It does more. It actually orders them to give permission - with, I suppose, the result that if they do not give permission they are guilty of contempt of court."

    As you can see, you can if you so chose deny access, but you had better have a pretty good reason.

  • by malia8888 (646496) on Friday February 06, 2004 @06:50AM (#8199672)
    From one of the ZD Net articles:

    and some studies have shown that file-sharing may actually contribute to greater expenditure by participants on legitimate music.

    I wonder where these studies came from? Saying file-sharing encourages the purchase of legitimate music is like saying hookers encourage fidelity in marriage.:P

    • Re:Pay the Piper (Score:3, Insightful)

      by POds (241854)
      Actualy i think on some level, copying music does lead to greater expenditure. I wouldnt say that it leads to greater expenditure on a nation or world wide scale but there are people that will copy music before even having heard it, just because its free.

      I've done this several time and it lead me to purchase the next albums by those artists.

      Although i'll admit, when i was younger, this free music thing was awsome to me and i'd copy things left right and center. I even resorted to buying a CD once, copying
  • by superangrybrit (600375) on Friday February 06, 2004 @06:56AM (#8199694)
    and we are already paying a percentage on storage media to artists even though some of us don't even download MP3s!!!

    We already payed for that music already through our taxes and hidden fees.

    Where does it end?

    It's time we cut the free money flow to these thieves.
  • by hsoom (680862) on Friday February 06, 2004 @06:56AM (#8199695)
    Michael Malone from iinet has posted [whirlpool.net.au] on the whirlpool forums saying that iinet was one of the four ISPs raided and that no subscriber information was asked for. What were they after then? A rumour I read is that some RIAA infringement notices were returned with a kind 'go to hell' and the raids are in response to this.

    I know we give the Americans here on /. a hard time about their draconian laws and the RIAA acting like thugs. I have to say that I'm sad to see this sort of thing going on in my own country.
  • by mr_z_beeblebrox (591077) on Friday February 06, 2004 @08:19AM (#8199943) Journal
    Don't squeeze the Sharman
  • Hmmm... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by CFBMoo1 (157453) on Friday February 06, 2004 @08:41AM (#8200039) Homepage
    Perhaps Kazaa should raid the record industry executives and represenatives for copies of Kazaa Lite? Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
  • Interesting Timing (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kwandar (733439) on Friday February 06, 2004 @10:37AM (#8200823)

    Its interesting that MIPI waited until just after the MGM v Grokster case [eff.org] to request and search.

    Probably my tinfoil hat, but I wonder if a failure to find anything would have been detrimental to the Appeals Court case? The RIAA attorney tried to push the point that Grokster were complicit in "trafficking in pirated goods", which the judge duly scolded them for, as abusive.

    The timing just seems a little funny?

  • by peter303 (12292) on Friday February 06, 2004 @10:53AM (#8201022)

"Consequences, Schmonsequences, as long as I'm rich." -- "Ali Baba Bunny" [1957, Chuck Jones]

Working...