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Television Media Hardware

Development Of The TiVo Remote Charted 333

victor_the_cleaner writes "The New York Times (anonymous readers need not apply) has an article about the development of the TiVo remote control. The article reviews the user-centered design approach the designers took. According to the lead designer, they considered 'how it feels in the hand, for long periods of time.' How about you - do you have an emotional attachment to your TiVo remote? Or other well-designed objects?"
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Development Of The TiVo Remote Charted

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  • by Repton ( 60818 ) on Thursday February 19, 2004 @03:59AM (#8324371) Homepage

    We have one of these. The only problem with it is exactly the issue this article is addressing --- when the remote consists only of a 5cm by 12cm LCD (or so), there is no tactile feedback. It is almost impossible to use by touch. (I am getting better, but I still hit the wrong button often)

  • by warrior ( 15708 ) on Thursday February 19, 2004 @04:01AM (#8324389) Homepage
    ...TiVo remote? Or other well-designed objects?

    Yes, my second generation iPod :)

    Cheers,
    Mike
  • by James_G ( 71902 ) <james AT globalmegacorp DOT org> on Thursday February 19, 2004 @04:13AM (#8324421)
    I have two Tivos (Series 1). A Sony model and a Philips model. I can't stand the Philips remote. [lstar.com] but the Sony remote [stevelionel.com] completely rules. All the commonly used stuff is grouped together. You rarely need to stray beyond the central buttons.

    Another problem with the Philips remote is that it feels the same upside down, making it hard to tell which way you're holding it in the dark. With the Sony remote, I can do everything without even glancing at the thing.

    On the whole, the Sony remote is among the best remotes I've ever used for anything. No extraneous buttons (you use basically everything), but the frequently used stuff is intelligently placed.

  • by steppin_razor_LA ( 236684 ) on Thursday February 19, 2004 @04:28AM (#8324483) Journal
    I think that Tivo is a triumph in usability. Not only is the remote very comfortable to hold (it is by far my favorite remote), but the GUI on the application itself is extremely well thought out.

    I can't count how many times when using Xbox Media Center to watch a movie that I've been frustrated by the many ways that that XBMP falls short of the Tivo experience.

    The fast forward / rewind interface is beautiful. Not only is the predictive fast forwarding extremely convenient, but it also shows you where you are in the movie in an equivalent of a scroll bar.

    It's a shame that it isn't easier to convert MPEGs into TMFs that can be inserted w/ MFSFTP. If it was, I'd be watching my archived movies on my Tivo instead of in XBMP in a heart beat.

    My only complaint (actually My GF's complaint) is that it sometimes is difficult for her in the dark to figure out which side is up and which is down.
  • by Osty ( 16825 ) on Thursday February 19, 2004 @05:30AM (#8324652)

    Personally, I'd vote in The PS/2 duel-shock controllers as another item like the tivo remote.

    I'll disagree. The Playstation dual-shock controllers are just a bit too small and angular for my hands, and end up in cramping after too long of a gaming session. The segmented digital pad leaves a lot to be desired as well, though to be fair most games prefer to use the analog sticks. The dual shoulder triggers are nice in that they give you another pair of buttons to work with, but it can be tricky trying to hold the controller, use both triggers, and still be able to play your game. They're about as useful as the black and white buttons on the XBox controllers, but at least those buttons make it clear that they're obviously secondary controls only (excluding dumb games like Enter the Matrix that use them for key gameplay components like firing your guns; silly Shiny, what were they thinking?).


    In my opinion, the best controller available for a console at the moment is the XBox S or Akebono controller. The Duke or original is just a bit too large, and the buttons a little too harsh, though with the proper grip it stays comfortable in the hand for hours. Either way, the large range of motion on the analog triggers is perfect for racing games, which I really enjoy. While the PS2 dual-shock does have analog buttons, the shoulder buttons do not have any more play in them than the face buttons and make fine control very difficult.


    The Gamecube controller also has a nice range of motion on the triggers, but is marred somewhat by the extra button click at the end. Since most games will make that final click do something other than the initial sweep of the trigger, you're stuck trying to hold the trigger at full press minus the click, which can be strenuous since the spring in the triggers is much weaker than that of the XBox controllers. Add to that the ... funky layout of the face buttons, the useless and poorly positioned Z button, the Gameboy-sized d-pad, and the wonky sticks (the main stick is straight off of the N64 controller, with a bit of added grippy rubber, and the C stick is just ... weird), and there's not much more to say about the cube controller except that it's more comfortable than a dual-shock.


  • by bm_luethke ( 253362 ) <`luethkeb' `at' `comcast.net'> on Thursday February 19, 2004 @05:36AM (#8324660)
    " And please, lets start using RF instead of IR. I'm sick of pointing my remote. Yes I'm that lazy."

    I don't think that is lazy, but good design. Many times it takes quite a wrist contortion to point the remote correctly, and lord help anyone whose batteries are low or has something blocking the line of sight. I don't have near the trouble with a keyboard that I do with the remote, yet when one says something about the remote the response is generally "walk to the TV stupid" - yea big help there. Like occasionaly getting out of the chair and stressing cold muscels doesn't cause MUCH of the back problems we see today. And keyboards get a lot of attention.

    I've had wrist injuries and had issues with pointing any remotes and had to switch hands (even had my right shoulder hurt trying to point the remote whith an injured wrist back when I lived in a dorm). This generally causes left wrist issues as it is continual motion it is not accustomed to. I imagine the repeated pointing of the device contributes a good deal to different repetitive stress syndromes.

    While the remote isn't really that big a part of RPS problems it is something that should be VERY easy to fix but none of the better designs get picked up. Cheap easy fix for a minor problem - good cost benefit analysis.
  • Re:Mouse... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by brakk ( 93385 ) on Thursday February 19, 2004 @05:41AM (#8324675) Homepage
    I also have a Logitech cordless mouseman optical, and love it, but only because it's cordless and optical. I don't understand why the shape is that big of a deal. I can use any mouse just as easily and can't tell much of a difference. Maybe I just have big hands, but I don't actually put my hand on the mouse. The only parts that touch the mouse are my fingertips. Thumb and pinky grab the mouse and move it, the other three push the buttons and scroll the wheel and my wrist sets on a wrist pad. In fact, if I actually lay my palm ON the mouse, my fingers almost overhang the front making it hard to press the buttons and then I have to use my whole arm to move the mouse.
  • Re:Google Link (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 1u3hr ( 530656 ) on Thursday February 19, 2004 @06:24AM (#8324819)
    The funny thing is that the Slashdot parter link seems to work as well. The question now is: why don't the editors use it? :-)

    The "editors" can't even be bothered to check spelling. Quite often links are completely broken. So expecting them to actually adjust a link is not realistic.

  • by ratsnapple tea ( 686697 ) on Thursday February 19, 2004 @06:27AM (#8324832)

    "They were designed by - and I hate to say it because I am one of them - engineers," Mr. Newby said.

    Mr. Nielsen said: "... They're overloaded with features you don't really need except once a year or once a lifetime."

    Honestly, folks. He might as well be talking about Linux distros, or open source software generally. In my experience, open source UIs are just plain terrible from a user perspective (though perhaps not from an engineer's).

    How is free/open source software ever going to replace anything on the desktop if the people who are attracted to these projects are almost exclusively engineers and programmers? The art of UI design is very different from the art of programming, and I think the open source "community," such as it is, needs to be more aware of the need for skilled UI designers.

    How to get UI people to join open source projects, however, is a mystery to me. Any ideas?

    yours

  • by opti6600 ( 582782 ) on Thursday February 19, 2004 @06:36AM (#8324859)
    Alrighty, time for me to chime in with discussions on well designed objects!

    I have a real passion for good design as well as functionality and durability in anything I own or purchase, and usually what's in this cubicle (and the cubicle itself), as well as my office, reflect that rule.

    As much as people might rant and/or rave that the Segway HT is a completely useless or fattening device even though I commute with one, heh, the fact is that it has to be one of the simplest and yet most attractive products from an industrial design perspective. It's entirely gray, with a preponderance of odd things, and yet the ID team managed to pull it off, and quite well I might add.

    Then we have my own little monolith. My NetShelter VX 25U rack. APC did wonders with the server rack, imho. It was sitting in my living room for a good month while I set up my office, and during that time it wasn't really that much of an eyesore (yeah, maybe I'm just bizarre) - the folks over at APC had turned a lump of steel and aluminum into a piece of black-powder-coat art, albeit very professionally.

    And the list goes on, but I can certainly say that proper design makes the difference between a buyer and a window-shopper.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 19, 2004 @07:32AM (#8324999)
    All devices should include all the buttons available on the remote on the front of the device. If that's a problem, the can be hidden behind an idiot door. (A door so that idiots aren't consfused by the buttons)

    A related issue is that tv related devices need to be able to completely disable on screen displays and should include an LED display for important information like channel number. I don't want to have to cover up the picture just to know what channel I'm on. (Those station logos have got to go too!)

    That being said, the best remote I ever owned was for my 1980 Sony Trinitron. A clasic rectangle shape, just the right width and length, featuring metal vener, and metalized rounded buttons. I hate those damned rubberized membrane pad buttons. The TV, by the way, featured classy wood grain sides which included handles making it easy to pick up. Every try to pick up on of the newer trinitons? It would be a *lot* easier if they included handles.
  • by word munger ( 550251 ) <dsmunger@@@gmail...com> on Thursday February 19, 2004 @08:57AM (#8325230) Homepage Journal
    ... There's no OFF button! To turn the damn thing off, I have to navigate down six lines of a menu to "standby." Sure I've programmed my universal remote to do it for me, but if it's not quite pointed directly at the unit, or if the batteries are running low... grrrrr!
  • by ianscot ( 591483 ) on Thursday February 19, 2004 @10:24AM (#8325798)
    I recommend that people interested in this sort of thing read Alan Cooper's The Inmates Are Running the Asylum.

    One of the best examples from that Alan Cooper book is alarm clocks.

    That's also a perfect example of dysfunctional relationships between user design and the engineer. There are alarm clocks that project the time on the wall or ceiling, alarm clocks that (supposedly) lull me to sleep with white noise or "nature sounds," and alarm clocks that wake me with my favorite CD -- but every blinking last one of them has horrible user design, especially for the intended audience: sleepy, disoriented people who don't have their contacts in. It's pretty amazing to consider just how awkward the things are.

    The guts of a better alarm clock: Bigger buttons that are clearly differentiated, even without my glasses on. Decent control over my snooze-ing -- limits on number of times, variable length, etc. would be nice. Readable displays that show different information -- ta dum! -- differently. ("Alarm" is not the same as "PM" and should not be an identical dot on the display.) And so on.

    Everyone has one of these, but the business hasn't produced a really good alarm clock at the commodity level for Target to carry. Designers with swooshy plastic cases aren't going to fix the problem by themselves.

  • by djtripp ( 468558 ) <djtrippNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday February 19, 2004 @01:25PM (#8328171) Homepage Journal
    I have to say that when I switched to a series II TiVo from my original Sony Boxed TiVo, I generally did not like the new remote. Why do I not like it? With the sony remote, you could access ALL buttons from one hand placement, with the TiVo remote, you have to reposition your hand from the top to the bottom when switching from regular controls to the numnerical (and the clear button). But it's biggest fault is it's symmetry. When it's dark, you sometimes can't tell which way is forward and you start fast-forwarding when you want to rewind. I can't be the only one this has happened to. Otherwise, it's a pretty good remote, but I like my Marantz RM-2000 MkII, which just rocks.
  • by wcrowe ( 94389 ) on Thursday February 19, 2004 @03:38PM (#8330317)
    Each end is shaped exactly the same. I'm always picking it up and pressing the fast forward (I think) only to discover that I just pressed the rewind. My other remotes I hardly have to glance at because they are bigger at one end, or have some other tactile clue as to which is the correct orientation.

  • by Coward, Anonymous ( 55185 ) on Thursday February 19, 2004 @04:54PM (#8331590)
    I place the tivo remote face down on the arm of my armchair and haven't had any problems with it sliding off (or with buttons being accidentally pressed from being upside down).
  • by Whatchamacallit ( 21721 ) on Thursday February 19, 2004 @05:58PM (#8332593) Homepage
    Sounds like it would be worth simply buying a new remote from TiVo rather then go through this time consuming process! Sorry but $35 is a small price compared to an hour or two of fiddling and polishing a remote's internals.

    Yeah, I'm a geek but I am not going through this process unless it would cost a $100 otherwise!

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