Losing Control of Your TV 633
sp00 writes "The MPAA is now trying to prevent high quality copies made from TV broadcasts. The latest anti-piracy move will prevent you from making high-quality copies of broadcast TV programs. And the new "broadcast flag" technology enables all manner of other restrictions. In the future, the Motion Picture Association of America will control your television set."
Thank our government for this! (Score:5, Insightful)
I realize this guy is sort of pushing the bullshit lines with controlling the OFF BUTTON and the MI sequence but I can actually see them banning you from timeshifting, etc. Look at some DVDs. You already can't skip some commercials on those. I can see it being that way on a rented movie but on one you purchased? That's bullshit.
HDTV was mandated by the government at YOUR expense so that these people could control YOUR choices. Make sure you thank them.
Re:Wait a second (Score:5, Insightful)
And legally, the MPAA doesn't control anything. They're a lobbying group. They control things illegally.
Hard to do (Score:3, Insightful)
But... (Score:5, Insightful)
All they are doing (Score:5, Insightful)
Can't change the dedicated crackers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wait a second (Score:5, Insightful)
"In the future... (Score:5, Insightful)
At which point I won't have one.
There is something to be said for getting older and not giving a *&@# about keeping current as-far-as TV shows are concerned. I could'nt even tell you who is sleeping with who on Friends
BC
Give it time (Score:3, Insightful)
And that is one reason to stop watching TV (Score:5, Insightful)
With all the crap on TV these days, and things like this coming into play, I can only hope people will at least reduce the amount of tv they watch.
TIvO? (Score:4, Insightful)
Guess we'll have to pay extra "taxes" or "licensing fees" or rent our TVs from now on since apparently you can't do anything with things you buy now.
When will this stop!
Easy solution... (Score:3, Insightful)
Hardly surprising. (Score:3, Insightful)
With TV, the only way to force people to accept unreasonable controls is to legislate... but fucking with something that virtually everyone does on a daily basis (rather than MP3s, still something the voting middle-aged and elderly populations aren't entirely au fait with) is going to score them some serious heat and scrutiny.
We can but hope, anyway...
No they will NOT control my television set (Score:5, Insightful)
These MPAA people are determined to follow in the footsteps of RIAA. Crappy content, obnoxious protection, struggling for more and more control over media that has less and less content. Pretty soon they will control 100% of nothing.
Re:"In the future... (Score:3, Insightful)
As long as we have pirated Movies to download...
You do have control of the price (Score:5, Insightful)
If I don't own the TV set outright, I shouldn't have to pay $3000 for a plasma TV. I think I should only have to pay $3.
We (collectively) have complete control over the price. Do not buy an HDTV with these sorts of crippling features. I own an HDTV, which I use as a 61" computer monitor and DVD playback device. I own an HDTV (Linux PCI card) tuner which does allow digital recording. I will not purchase a device with these flags enabled.
If enough other videophiles are informed enough and smart enough to do likewise, the product will go the way of the original DIVX self-destructive DVDs
(There is a lot to be done on the content side to offer entertainment alternatives to the Corporate State's Bread and Circuses program, but Red v. Blue and other content online is already showing the way, and Blender et. al. put the tools in our hands to make our own high quality content. The rest is up to us).
Its all very simple... (Score:5, Insightful)
My point being is that the TV/MPAA industry is bound and determined to make money whatever way they can in order to both profit and to 'subsidize' 'providing' broadcast television. This typically means advertising. It is up to you to determine whether you will put up with restrictions or not. The problem is that all of us viewers allow these corporations to do what they want because its not worth 'your time'. That's your choice.. your time. These days I am chosing to not use TV anymore. I live with the lack of entertainment.. but I am finding my way with.. gasp.. reading... exercise... developing social networks for work, friends, and family.
Its amazing what you can do when you plug those 4 to 8 hours a day into something other than watching television.
Admittedly there are a lot of folks quite happy to do so... hoorah for them. They've made their choice whether they actively did so or not.
Get rid of it (Score:5, Insightful)
I have not missed a darn thing.
There is too much in life to enjoy without
having a TV.
How can the MPAA control the empty space where
your TV is not?
In case you've forgotten... (Score:5, Insightful)
What television? (Score:3, Insightful)
News flash: YOU DON'T NEED THE TV. There's plenty of OTHER things you could be doing- personally, I hate the thing and see it as an incredible waste of extremely valuable time. Gathering 'round with friends for a John Carpenter marathon is nice social thing, but watching TV alone is like going to the movies or a restaurant alone- an asocial act of mental masturbation.
I stopped watching TV for several reasons- most of it was shit, I didn't want to pay out the ass for 50 channels I don't want to get the three I do, and I REALLY HATE the advertising- specifically the difference in audio levels and overall brightness.
I don't miss TV at all. With technology like this being pushed, I miss it even less. I'll stick with software DVD playback once or twice a month, so I can watch movies and comment about how {good|bad} they are on IRC at the same time. Good use of existing hardware, excellent monetary savings (one of my machines has RCA/S inputs, so it's not like I need a TV for my old Nintendo, either...)
Waste of time, misuse of public trust (Score:4, Insightful)
And it will be. You don't think "techno-geeks" will be able to tweak the firmware on the capture cards to ignore the flag?
The only thing this does is take away consumers rights to timeshift this digital content. I should be able to capture the 6'Oclock movie and watch it at midnight - not in some lossy second rate format, but exactly how it originally aired. Did the courts not already decide this?
If they dont want me watching this material, why the fuck are they broadcasting it? The push medium, the your-life-revolves-around-our-schedule school of thought within the cult of TV is ending. With all the PVRs out there, on demand programming from the cable company, etc, people are watching what they want and when they want.
The silver lining? This will probably bite them in the ass. Less people will see flagged movies/shows, which means less ratings, which means less advertising dollars, which makes the movies/shows worth less.
I bet you'll see the flag off by default almost all the time. Except guaranteed captive audiences, like live sports events.
Re:Thank our government for this! (Score:5, Insightful)
Pop in a DVD, press play, and you are FORCED to watch the Piracy Warning, and the Company Name banners. Some previews are even hard to get past. This takes up to a few minutes for some DVD's.
You cannot fast forward.
You cannot rewind.
You cannot stop.
This kind of technology being suggested just serves to stop people from having any control over their TV's. Pretty soon I can easily see TV's that will not allow you to change the channel during commercials, mute the volume during commercials, or turn off without watching the last few commercials. It's already gotten to the point where some channels have decided to pad a 2 hour show to 3 hours by adding an additional hour of commercials.
And so far, no one is complaining. So sad.
This will not stop piracy, in my opinion, it will only make it worse. The forbidden fruit, so to speak.
When I buy DVD, it should begin playing the movie the instant I put it in the machine. I paid for it, it's mine. Commercials are fine on TV stations, because that is how they make their money, but not on my PAID FOR retail DVD.
Hollywood, MPAA, and RIAA are all a bunch of greedy bastards, IMO!
They'll never control mine (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:All they are doing (Score:5, Insightful)
My gf is actually pretty pissed off that I don't have cable. This interrupts her Reality TV bullshit with fuzz and intermittent loud buzzing. She can't understand why I am not ready to fork out $55/mo to watch what they feed us.
Ok, so back to the topic... People out there don't care about a broadcast flag. It's not going to affect them. It's just something else that they will hear about, shrug their shoulders, and say, "so?" Remember... We live in a time where people will vote for American Idol contestants (25+ million a week watch that shit) but we can't get anyone to vote for who runs our country. We also live in a time where people look at you crazy when you tell them that their freedoms are being infringed on.
Re:Get rid of it (Score:5, Insightful)
I also bet that anytime someone mentions a TV show, you chime in with "$TV_show? Never hear of it. I don't even own a TV. Haven't since May, 1978. You really should get rid of your TV, etc."
Re:If they want control..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps you should only have to pay $3 for a car, since you don't own it outright (you're restricted from changing it in certain ways).
What's different here, is who is restricting. With a car's emissions equipment, the restriction is placed upon you by everyone; we all (theoretically ;-) agree that it is in all our interests to limit pollution. So your neighbor isn't getting any more out of supressing your rights, than you are, also.
With the broadcast flag, it appears that the only party benefitted by the supression, is the MPAA. Thus, it's a blatantly corrupt law.
But they will then argue that it isn't true, because copyright law benefits us all, since it encourages the creation of works that we all enjoy.
Re:TV's future? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah one can make decent home movies and wedding videos... maybe even videos of some live performances and sporting events (well, some sporting events...). But do you really think those will have a wide audience as to compete with commercially produced content?
Re:You do have control of the price (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:If they want control..... (Score:3, Insightful)
I think this is a blessing in disguise, as it is I hardly watch any TV. Reality TV having hardly any reality. Melodramatic sitcoms ,too predictable and not remotely funny. MTV, please don't even get me started. Sportstars are more and more appearing in Legal courts than stadiums.
Heck even the national geographic and discovery channel programs seem over dramatized. Remember the Nat. Geo. special about the hole drilling in one of the Pyramids a few months back.
Amongst all those ads, trying to get me to buy stuff that I really don't need, and all those sensationalized news reports, I am truely Bored of TV.
Re:What about low-quality copies? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not quite (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It Figures - My Bad Timing (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Voting... (Score:1, Insightful)
Kerry, when he wins, is going to suck just as bad as Bush. He will just be a better actor at looking like he knows what he is doing.
Nothing will change, it never does, it will always suck.
Re:TV's future? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:But... (Score:3, Insightful)
Slippery Slope (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Complete Series on DVD (Score:2, Insightful)
Why? Because you don't just buy the DVDs for the episodes alone, you buy them for the commentaries, specials, interviews etc and even the packaging!
I have almost every episode of FarScape on VCD, yet I have the first two seasons on DVD and will buy the rest when they release them as box sets.
Will this work better than crippled CDs? (Score:2, Insightful)
Though my one question is, they can send little flags all they want, it's still just a stream of 1's and 0's that can be grabbed before they enter the TV and redirected to another recording source.
Just like no matter how much DRM they put on MP3s, there's still nothing preventing me from taking the line out from my computer and putting it into a digital recorder.
Now when they put gov't controlled ear plugs and blinders one me, then I'll be worried.
Re:What about low-quality copies? (Score:3, Insightful)
Wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
Wrong.
Early adopters are critical to a new product's success. If the videophiles, who are the early adopters of HDTV, do not buy the products, there is a good chance few others will.
Remember, not only do enthusiasts buy the expensive ("development-cost recouping") equipment, they are also the ones their friends and families turn to for advice on what to buy and what not to buy. Withholding their willingness to purchase will almost certainly be enough to kill obnoxious new products
This has already happened, with DAT tapes and divx DVD's. It can happen again with crippled HDTV
Don't kid yourself about the potential impact
Crossing Thin Lines (Score:3, Insightful)
As bad as DVD players (Score:4, Insightful)
You have to sell product. I don't have to buy it. (Score:3, Insightful)
You'd have figured the MPAA and its members would have learned from this - when you have digital media, your audience will rob you blind unless you treat them well. Copying your work is tedious but trivial - thus if you give your customers a reason to do so, they will. When people can't do what they want with their TV and its content (time-shift, copy to disc for personal use, etc.), then people will find a way around the MPAA's restrictions, and then the MPAA is stuck playing a losing game.
The movie and music companies act like foreign dictators with their own private armies and Swiss bank accounts. Don't they remember what happens to tyrants? (Here's a clue - they don't have to worry about collecting retirement benefits.) The worse the dictators treat their people, the harder it is on them when their time comes up (as it always does). What makes these people think that they are immune to this? Even worse, unlike countries with despots, I can walk away from them. So can everyone else. As the parent said, eventually the movie companies will control 100% of nothing. How are they going to pay off^H^H^H^H^H^Hmake campaign contributions to legislators to protect their (nonexistent) market without any money?
Re:If they want control..... (Score:3, Insightful)
This is why so many things are catering to lowest common denominator. Average quality in many things these days has been moved to a fringe market segment. Decent fair priced items can't seem to compete with cheap crap items due to loss of demand cause the fair price to go up to unfair rates.
Re:But... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Thank our government for this! (Score:2, Insightful)
You always have the option not to buy one. And if you do buy one, you buy it with the understanding that such a purchase does not imply an inalienable right to commercial-free television, DVDs, or anything for that matter. What you've bought is a device that displays images on it, not much more.
Hollywood, MPAA, and RIAA are all a bunch of greedy bastards, IMO!
Truly so.
Re:Thank our government for this! (Score:2, Insightful)
Everyone is complaining. They are also still watching, so what's that complaint worth?
Re:In case you've forgotten... (Score:3, Insightful)
Not only books. My neighborhood public library will lend me DVD movies and audio CD's. Imagine how the ??AA must feel about that.
One case where I can say "my tax dollars at work" and feel good about it.
Are you sure? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you sure nobody is complaining? Sometimes, people don't "complain", they just silently change their purchasing/consuming habits. Haven't you seen the stories on Slashdot where people are spending time on the web or with video games, taking the time out of their television viewing?
That is even better than complaining.
DiVX, the Circuit City self-destructing DVD technology, in the end wasn't killed by geek complaints. It was killed by people who didn't buy it. (Sometimes, the "sheeple" aren't. "Sheeple" is mostly a term for feeling yourself superior anyhow, but I digress....) DVDs, IMHO, have already crossed the line of what people will tolerate, as evidenced by being forced to back down from forced previews to allowing people to skip them. Don't expect them to get any worse, or if they do, expect rapid punishment exacted on the offending studio by the market.
I'd not bet on it yet but it is a perfectly plausible outcome that by 2006 or 2007, no broadcaster will use the flag, because they can't afford the viewership loss! PVRs aren't going away over the next year. The Internet isn't going away. Video games certainly aren't going away. The optimal time for TV to pull this shit was about four years ago; now too many people have tasted the "forbidden fruit" of interactive media, especially PVRs, and many of them are already choosing to decrease their TV usage, before the TV industry implements the squeezing! (If you've got the disposable funds, buy your representatives a TiVo; that donation will probably have a greater effect then anything else you could do with the money.)
Oh, there's valid reason for concern and I still would like to see a lawsuit that labels this as unconstutitional restriction on our speech, and personally I find attempts to control viewers who aren't sharing effectively unethical [jerf.org]. The fight should be fought... but I'm pretty sure that in this arena, we've already won. The TV industry would like to think otherwise, but they are, in the end, dispensible now. Viable alternatives exist and most of them are one-way transitions for the people who try them; the television's only choice now is between declining slowly and maintaining a real but smaller existance, or throwing a hissy fit until we starve them as a society. (No laws necessary; we can't be forced to watch TV barring a sudden UK-like tax law.)
Then don't send me the broadcasts! (Score:3, Insightful)
First I got all steamed... (Score:3, Insightful)
Now I am beginning to wonder what the real use of the flag is for. It isn't for copying because at this point the copies already exist. Maybe it is for tighter control over Tivo, timeshifting, skipping adverts.
Re:In case you've forgotten... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Thank our government for this! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wait a second (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, almost everything. When I hear about a good show, I watch it on DVD. Like the Sopranos. I can watch the whole season in a few nights. Netflix. $20/month. Only stuff I want. No commercials. There is zero reason to buy into TV anymore.
Powell to the People: Drop Dead! (Score:4, Insightful)
Just because they wink and nod.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Baaaaaa, Baaaaaa! (Score:4, Insightful)
The American public today is an amorphous mass of market share, whose job is to respond to advertising and other stimuli, not to complain or initiate any meaningful action. So don't expect the masses to jump up and say, "NO, I don't want a crippled television!" Expect them to say, "Does it have SurroundSound?" and, "How much is the Big one?"
Baaaaaa, baaaaaaa... Moooooo....
Don't touch that dial! (Score:3, Insightful)
Digital TV may do the same thing with ads. All of a sudden your volume, mute, change channel and power-off buttons will not work -- until the ad is over, of course.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Thank our government for this! (Score:3, Insightful)
The halftime show, and the cheerleaders, have been sexploitation for nigh on 20 years now. You would think that if The General Viewing Public were truly offended by this crap, they'd just stop watching the Superbowl, and hope that the ratings would go down enough that the broadcaster would change the content. But no. Sex sells. everybody knows it. And the more they push the limits, the more money they make.
So this year, they see a boob. They were too weak to turn off their TV, and NOW they're upset. So instead of voting with their feet, they call into the FCC and whine and complain. That just cranks the bar back, and over the next 10 years, that which titillates will be more tame, and they'll have to push the boundries back up until they hit the same, or some other limit.
But in the intervening time, it seems as if The People are incapable of exercising their judgement and making a tough decision.
All I Hear (Score:1, Insightful)
It isn't necessarily because what they watch sucks. It is because of the bland reality they are living. Having nothing else to talk about. I'm not a snob; I won't wield the "I'M SOOOOOOO INTELLIGENT AND YOU BOOOORE ME" argument (which is what people immediately think of you when you tell them you don't watch tv). I just want to hear about something real. Do people have hobbies anymore? Do they think anymore?
I like life. I don't need to live vicariously through television. TV is all right once in a blue moon. But it is not the be-all end-all of human existence. Yet somehow, in this culture of ours, it has snuck into our top needs right under air, water, and food!
Re:TV Licenses in the UK (Score:3, Insightful)
Come on... This only seems bizarre because we don't have it here in the US. The income tax also seemed ludicrous when it was first created (some would argue it still is ludicrous).
Desperation. (Score:2, Insightful)
If the movie flops, piracy will again be blamed, even if it is a case of most people not wanting to pay more for a 2 hour "lease" on the content then they would for an indefinite "lease" on it.
No matter what the entertainment industry gets, it will not be enough for them until they control our culture (what's left of it) in its entirety.
The market simply will not bear these outrageous DVD/cable subscription/movie ticket prices any longer, and they are trying to find a scapegoat.
DVDs are going to eventually go the way of CDs, for the exact same reason - we are being made to shell out a purchase price that is at least 5-6 times over the manufacturing costs. It's greed that is killing these people, not piracy.
As to TV shows, basic cable (read: non-dish/digital) is a joke. It's not even worth having any longer. I don't even think of watching cable any longer, when I want to see something, I load it up over my xbox ftp. There's no reason for me to watch american idol 57 when my computer has 3 seasons of family guy on it.
The entertainment industry has to change or die, simple as that. How many times can consumers (we're not even customers anymore) be expected to pay out higher and higher prices for the same content? (you pay for the subscription to HBO so you can see The Sopranos, then you pay a ridiculous amount of money to see it again, ala boxset.)
they said it would happen... (Score:5, Insightful)
all your base are belong to us.
Re:Wait a second (Score:3, Insightful)
In my area (Minneapolis and burbs) Comcast charges about 70 bucks if you only want internet, or 55 dollars if you have internet AND cable. Does that make sense...it doesn't seem like it, but after probing the lady on the phone with about 1,000 questions she finally told me that they want to control the cable market, and not give up subscriptions to people like DirecTV and Dish Network, so by chargin a huge rate for internet unless you have cable too, they increase the number of cable subscriptions drastically.
So there are a bunch of people like me who ahve full cable and never turn on the TV.
I have rarely ever found a TV show interesting, but when I have, I think around 30 dollars for a whole season is a really good price. Unfortunately, one of the only shows I have ever liked is the X-Files, and their seasons go fo rabout $119.00 a piece, and there was 9 of them. I am not spending over $1,000.00 dollars to watch the X-Files. lol. Anything over 50.00 a season is out of control.
However, the good thing about this, as mentioned in the above post, is that networks will have people buying the seasons on DVD in mind when thinking of shows, and then want to make them better so that they can make money off of the DVD sets, so it will probably lead to more quality programming in the end.
If I can watch seasons of a good show and own them forever, and have no commercials to watch, I don't mind paying 30 dollars. If they start to overcharge for the DVD's as X-Files has, I will lose interest quickly, and the pirating of them will go up drastically.
tv sets. (Score:2, Insightful)
Between people putting their own content out and those operating "pirate" feeds either in places that the the United States legal system can't touch or in encrypted anonymous trading networks, hollywood will never be able to put that genie back into the bottle.
In the mean time I don't have cable and don't miss it. I refuse to pay $50 -$60 a month for crap!
Every time I am somewhere like a hotel room where I can watch cable I end up flipping through 60 channels and not finding anything I want to watch. Who wants to watch a bunch of stupid sheep's pretend lives when you can go and have a life of your own?
My kids watch video's and DVD's that we either own or have rented and they are happy. They watch about 30 minutes of video a night, none of it broadcast. They watch way less then any of their friends. As a result they have time for ballet, gymnastics, swim team, trick jumprope classes, T-ball, scouts, church groups, sleep overs, visits to the liberary, computers, train spotting, ice skating, riding bikes, bowling, and doing their homework, reading stories to dad.
Re:Wait a second (Score:3, Insightful)
I know everybody's different, and I currently pay $52/mo for digital ($44.95 my ass - the FCC charges are non-optional and THEY collect them - they should include that in their quote!). Things I'd miss without cable:
Formula 1 and World Rally
Adult Swim
Discovery and TLC
G4TV
IFC TV (some of the most interesting movies around)
Speed Channel for other assorted motorsport
Little of what I watch can be bought on DVD, and in the case of TLC/Discovery, their DVD's wouldn't be cheaper than cable.
What kills me is that Comcast rapes me for 52 bucks and says it's because of the 100+ channels I get. However, about 60 of them I don't even SEE - I set favorites on the remote and channel-surf that way.
P.S. - I'd turn off the stupid TV Guide infobar, but you can't...Stupid thing keeps getting in the way at inopportune times...
GTRacer
- When is a la carte TV coming?
Re:Wait a second (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Thank our government for this! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:TV's future? (Score:3, Insightful)
I can't believe I left out porn, the driver of the Internet and popular culture in general...
Re:Wait a second (Score:1, Insightful)
That sounds almost like a library...
I wonder if the MPAA will try to wipe out such evil criminal enterprises as that?
Re:Wait a second (Score:2, Insightful)
Solution: Hack the software, as usual (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Wait a second (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't buy it. Set the broadcast flag so I can't TiVo my shows anymore and I'm still not going to buy the DVD's, I'm less likely to because I won't "get into" the show in the first place. Major networks will have to rely on me remembering to be home and tuned to their channel when that show who's commercial or write up caught my eye two weeks ago; trust me, that aint going to happen. Instead, I'll go back to watching the discovery channels, FoodTV, Infomercials, oddball cartoons, etc., like I did in the days before Tivo. I'll bitch about their repetivness, though I imagine its a lot better now that there's 40 different Discovery channels. No, if anything this will increase teh need for cable, because I need more options when *I* watch TV, not during that 3 hour band that TV exec's consider "Prime Time". Fun stuff like Myth Buster's, or Iron Chef, or those insane knife auctioning guys (Havent watched them hawk their "collector's knife sets" since I got Tivo).
Here's my idea. If the MPAA is concerned about piracy because of HDTV, don't show the damned movie on TV. If I want to watch a movie these days, I go to block buster, or I'll buy the DVD. Or I watch it on HBO. The damned pirates will just rent the DVD and rip it from there anyway, I doubt they are concerned about getting those last bits of resolution an specially preped HDTV movie copy (1024i vs 480i, I see no reason to convert a 24fps movie to 60fps video) before they compress it down to VCD quality anyway. So unless they movie studios are planning on abandoning the installed base of DVD owners the broadcast flag does them almost 0 good anyway. I imagine given a choice between paying for technology to cripple their TV viewing habits and not watching the content of overly paranoid movie studios, 80% of Americans would opt to pass on the extra content and watch my Big Fat Obnoxious Bride
And here's the kicker. This technology has already been rolled out; check out the MiniDisc player. Now, check out its secret implications: Record your Wedding toast on you're digital MiniDisc recorder, and it will do you the favor of enabling the "do not copy" bit for you. After all, it can't tell that you own all the rights to your speech, so to be safe it assumes you don't (else you could make unlimited digital copies after having gone through just 1 D>A>D conversion, and that would be downright un-American.
Re:What about low-quality copies? (Score:3, Insightful)
I still say... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Wait a second (Score:4, Insightful)
Reduce the size of the pie, and the incentive to bribe government will disappear. Lobbying groups only attempt to bribe government because they know it works.