Losing Control of Your TV 633
sp00 writes "The MPAA is now trying to prevent high quality copies made from TV broadcasts. The latest anti-piracy move will prevent you from making high-quality copies of broadcast TV programs. And the new "broadcast flag" technology enables all manner of other restrictions. In the future, the Motion Picture Association of America will control your television set."
Wait a second (Score:4, Interesting)
What about low-quality copies? (Score:5, Interesting)
Not quite (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Wait a second (Score:5, Interesting)
TV's future? (Score:5, Interesting)
Ah, television... (Score:0, Interesting)
Complete Series on DVD (Score:3, Interesting)
Agreed. (Score:2, Interesting)
On an off-topic note - what Linux HDTV tuner do you use, and how open are the drivers?
The no-channel-change flag (Score:3, Interesting)
If you've watched at least three minutes of a program, you will be prohibited from changing the channel during the next commercial. Mute, power off, and volume reduction will also be disabled. User control returns after three minutes of commercials or when released by the broadcaster.
This prevents people from stealing program content by not watching the commercials.
Really that big a deal? (Score:4, Interesting)
If it ever gets to the truely annoying point where you can't do anything but sit in front of the TV and watch it real time, there will be a whole slew of hacks to dissable this on your various hardware pieces.
This strikes me as something like the region code for DVDs. Annoying, but if you really care, you can get around it.
Yes, it would be nice to deal with this from the top by eliminating stupidity from policy making, but certainly not the end of the world if it happens.
My 2 cents.
Re:Thank our government for this! (Score:5, Interesting)
...until I found a hacked firmware for my DVD player that makes it multiregion, disables macrovision, and allows my to skip past FBI warnings and the like... (also known as using MY DVD player with MY DVDs in any way I want...) Is it a DMCA violation? Probably... But the more people do this, the more obvious it is that this type of encumberment is NOT what the market wants.
Hollywood's bet on Bandwidth Bloat... (Score:3, Interesting)
A digital TV station has an effective throughput of about 6 mbps, which is faster than the typical consumer download connection, and much faster than the typical consumer upload speed. The advantage is that the 6 mbps can be fully compressed before they send it out, so the uncompressed version is something like 18 to 24 mbps of data depending on the exact standard being used.
What the so called "Broadcast Flag" (a term I don't like either, it's really an Anti-digital-copy Flag) does is it orders the decyrpting device to shutdown its digital outputs, but it's still allowed to use analog outs to its heart's content...
Now, here's the catch, MPEG is designed to be a process that's easy on the decode side, and puts as much of the processor load as possible on the encoding side. So, your MPEG will never be as good as one the studios can afford to make, which means your 6 mbps file is going to look worse than the one on TV... and you might even end up with a bigger file with less quality than the one that was broadcast.
When it comes down to it, TiVo has always honored that rule as best they could, trying to make digital extraction out of its machines as hard as they could. That was always the "forbidden hack" on the TiVo-sponsored forums. Now, that hack's going to become illegal.
So really, they're doing nothing to close the analog hole, except for the fact that they realize that passing through the analog hole will always result in either quality loss or bandwidth bloat or both.
Re:Easy solution... (Score:3, Interesting)
The connection between $DEVICE and $DISPLAY will be an encrypted HDCP/HDMA connection. You cannot connect your black box in the middle of that chain, without the HDCP/HDMA devices throwing a hissy fit and refusing to send their signal.
Of course, when I said this was coming last year, and two years ago, people said I was nuts.
Well, here it is, folks. Enjoy.
Another point of view... (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, but by that time, TV will be obsolete. The internet is taking people away from TV because it's a superior format - albeit different and not directly comparable, yes.
However, 'how long can television last?' is the real question, particularly in light of the paternalistic control mechanisms the MPAA is considering.
I find it funny that people whose political views are right-of-centre often argue that social programs should be 'run like businesses', and thus privatised. However, looking at how the MPAA treats people who pay $13.50 to watch a film in a theatre - by treating them like potential criminals with their anti-piracy ads - I can't believe that running a social program 'like a business' has any merit as an argument. If the government put ads like that in theatres, they'd have their skin ripped off by an understandably furious public...but when the MPAA does it, I suppose we just have to swallow it (?).
Voting... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm a proud voter, and I'm happy to see that more people are taking the 5 minutes required to do the same.
And as another post-er already pointed out, the failure of DivX based DVD players was a consumer shug-the-shoulders, "I wonder who would buy that," response. But those consumers did not buy that.
Re:You do have control of the price (Score:5, Interesting)
Paying money for an HDTV isn't. The government can mandate that HDTV is offered, they can't mandate that we buy it.
Buy a computer monitor instead, and download your free, legal content online. Machinima, Blenderwars, assorted Povray sites, etc. are a good starting point.
Bored? Make your own TV show and disseminate it online. If you're good, maybe you'll be able to sell ad placements (Coke signs in the background a la Blade Runner, etc.) and make a living at it. If not, you have a cool hobby and are helping yourself and others choose a path different than that the thugs with the flack jackets and jack boots are ushering us toward.
Re:Thank our government for this! (Score:1, Interesting)
That's why when I rent a new movie, the first thing I do is to rip it, remove the copy protection and create a new DVD with DVD-Shrink without all the crap on it. Then I watch that instead and set aside the rental. Then when the rental is up, I destroy the copy and take the original DVD back. (OK, maybe I don't destroy the backup all the time, just if the movie sucks).
Re:You do have control of the price (Score:2, Interesting)
Even if all of the videophiles in the nation united, it would not compare to the number of people who would buy them anyway because they just don't care.
Videophile: "Ma'am, don't you know that buying this HDTV with the broadcast flag on it can prohibit you from use digital recording devices to record your content and could allow unauthorized manipulation of the content you've recorded?"
Buyer: "Unauthorized digital what flag now?"
Who needs television? (Score:2, Interesting)
I take the opposite tack: I just don't buy televisions at all. I have a mediocre television hooked to a cheap DVD player so I can watch movies, and I can use money left over from not paying for cable to buy more wine. Think of it: satellite TV for a year is two cases of drinkable wine, or one case of good wine. I also have a lot of extra time on my hands, to think about which bottle I will open tonight.
I may also be a little bit bored.
Re:In case you've forgotten... (Score:1, Interesting)
And then remind yourself what it's like to have Big Brother watching when the feds do a secret raid of the library, and you wind up getting disappeared because they didn't like what you checked out?
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What about low-quality copies? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Thank our government for this! (Score:2, Interesting)
I thought this sort of thing was up to the player.
For example, in PowerDVD in windows XP I can't avoid watching whatever the DVD maker wanted me to watch, but in Linux DVD players I can.
Would the same thing not apply to hardware DVD players?
Re:Wrong (Score:5, Interesting)
Ah, good ole days. That once was true. Television, and later color television, spread this way. Early adopters on both sides--folks taking a chance on some new gadget and folks taking a chance on providing content for that new gadget--set the path to a brave new world.
And for many years it worked. Color tv spread; AM stereo radio didn't. Market forces worked, and it was good.
Those days are gone. In the USA HDTV is law. Broadcasters have to broadcast it; manufacturers have to make it.
The market chose CD over DAT and DVD over DivX, but in this case there is no competing technology. If you don't want an HDTV, eventually your only option will be no TV at all.
BTW, if you're planning on buying in the USA a TV 36-inches or larger, and don't want to be forced to pay a few hundred dollars for HDTV hardware you don't need, butter buy before July 1 [pbs.org].
New Modding Craze: HDTV Mods (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What about low-quality copies? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Wait a second (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Thank our government for this! (Score:3, Interesting)
Yup, my Apex DVD player will let me skip anything I want to. It also lets me play the copy of Futurama Season 1 that I bought through an importer from the UK (was before they announced the US release).
Though part of the reason I got the DVD player I did, was because I could upgrade the firmware to fix all of the bugs left in it by the manufacturer.
Re:Wait a second (Score:3, Interesting)
Solution?
Solution 1: They'll raise the price of every single DVD season set to $100+ to make up the loss. To make up for the boatloads of cash they'll lose trying to pawn off old episodes of Beverly Hills 90210, they'll push the Stargate:SG1 episode prices to the limits of reasonable sanity. That probably won't happen.
Solution 2: In fact they will probably stop putting as many shows on DVD forcing you to only be able to watch them on cable - cable you will have to spend more and more on for the sake of new channels but no new shows. Not the death of TV but the necessity of it is what the future holds. You will only be able to see some shows on cable and so you will be at the mercy of the companies. You will have no option but to subscibe. Byebye VCR, ByeBye fair use rights.
Re:Wait a second (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:That's not something to be proud of (Score:2, Interesting)
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Organization will bring change (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:You do have control of the price (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:TV Licenses in the UK (Score:2, Interesting)
Well that's simply an issue of enforcement. Historically this wasn't a problem as there was only the BBC. Now there are three free to air comercial channels as well as the Beeb. The same technology is used for all 5 channels, so how do we stop people who don't want to pay for BBC from watching the BBC.
Oh I know, we could put some sort of tag in the broadcast which would limit what people could watch on their TV... Oh wait.
Re:The revolution will be televised... (Score:3, Interesting)
Funny you mention that. Convergence, a German software startup for Linux TV applications once had t-shirts with that quote printed on the back. That company was also actively involved in promoting open standards for multimedia platforms based on digital TV.
Which brings me to the point: A proprietary standard for digital TV will severely affect its innovative development. US companies will shut themselves out from the rest of the world in terms of development, because they control the local market. The really exciting developments will not be done in proprietary standards and in a couple of years Europe and Asia will have some really cool stuff. Whereas the US pays extortion money to cable monopolies. Not smart in the long run.
Canada? More than likely... (Score:3, Interesting)
It's a little known fact that by law ALL televisions sold in Canada sized 60 cm or over (20"+...not sure why the smaller ones are exempt) must be equipped with V-Chips (to allow blocking of content rated at a certain threshhold). By default it is set at maximum to let all content through and I don't think many consumers are even aware of the feature, much less know how to set it. Many TVs in the US include it too since although it is not required by law, it consumers percieve it as a convenient feature that hasn't impacted the cost of the TV, and as such they can sell the same model continent-wide.
Given the lack of concern over such mandates in Canada, and the fact that it is a small market compared with the US it wouldn't make economic sense to make non-crippled equipment just for Canada (it would actually cost a fair bit more since it wouldn't be volume production). Besides that there would be political pressure by the US on manufacturers not to do it and on the Canadian govenrment to legislate broadcast flags.
Digital sattelite is a good example--it existed for years in legal limbo and new legislation brought in under pressure from Canadian and American entertainment industries made American set-ups illegal--EVEN IF YOU WERE A FULLY-PAYING DIRECT TV CUSTOMER. Now if you don't want to break the law you are limited to ExpressVu or StarChoice--domestic choices subject to Canadian-content quotas and blocked from carrying most premium American programming (it is illegal in Canada to view HBO, Showtime and so on--even if you were willing to pay full subscriptions to them--because they have not been granted permission to broadcast in Canada).
HDTV might follow the same route...the gov't will drag its feet until it becomes popular to get "hacked tv's". They will be so common that industry groups and the US with bitch and moan loudly enough that new laws will be passed in Canada.
Similar things for Pay TV too.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Check out this article [tvweek.com] which talks about changes that DirecTV is trying to implement. Here's a nice little nugget about controlling those damn Tivos:
News Corp. and Fox are striving to cushion their energetic embrace of personal video recorder technology in DirecTV's set-top boxes with limitations and standards that do not overly threaten the advertising revenue that is key to Fox's TV stations and broadcast network. They will include elimination of the 30-second skip button and place limits on the time allowed to download and store programs.
That's what you get when our wonderful FCC (the same guys that approved the broadcast flag) allowed a content producer - News Corp. (Rupert Murdoch's company, who also owns Fox), to buy a service provider. Don't you love our corporatist Bush administration?!? That sure was nice of Michael Powell's daddy, Colin Powell, to get him that job as the chairman of the FCC.
Haven't we seen this before? (Score:4, Interesting)
(Incidentally, the previews are a complete waste of space and time as they hold very little meaning years after those movies have been released. How many times do people need to be forced to watch previews for Planet of the Apes?)
Re:Hard to do (Score:2, Interesting)
At least there will be fewer privacy-ignorant people with "nothing to hide".
Re:Are you sure? (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, when Divx came out, there was a hugeass backlash in the DVD community against it, and basically a grassroots effort was formed of people hanging out in Circuit City stores, and telling prospective buyers exactly what was wrong with Divx. I never did this myself since my area has no circuit city, but tons of people were doing it, along with stories of turning people off Divx.
At the time, Disney was intending to only release their animation titles on Divx rather than DVD (live action was excepted) and Warner Brothers was looking at doing the same thing, so the community (rightly) perceived a great threat from Divx. I fully believe that this had a lot to do with Divx failing, although a large portion of it was that the players simply cost too much, and initially only one store sold the players.
My basic point being though, that I can guarantee that large numbers of people certainly were turned off Divx by geek complaints in an indirect way.
Re:You do have control of the price (Score:3, Interesting)
What country do you live in?
No one's forcing you to own a car. Lots of people in NYC get by just fine without one, or the insurance for it. Even if you have a car, no one comes to check you have insurance, unless you get in an accident or something. Lots of poor people drive around every day without auto insurance. Of course, it really sucks when one of them hits you, but uninsured motorist coverage wouldn't exist if all drivers had insurance.
As for medical insurance, millions of Americans and illegal aliens have no medical insurance, and have no problem getting medical care. Ever wonder why a bandage costs $10 at a hospital? It's because their gouging their patients to pay for all the uninsured people they're required by law to care for. Of course, uninsured people can't get any kind of preventive care, but when the problem festers and becomes an emergency, then emergency rooms are required by law to take them regardless of their ability to pay; they can't just let people die.
Putting the effort in the wrong place! (Score:2, Interesting)
Which brings up another question! Are the people in Hollywood now so inbred that they can no longer determine what the public likes. There were so surprised by the loss of viewership that they question the figures provided by the Nielson rating company. They still have no idea why there are fewer viewers this year.
Even the latest Star Trek series "Enterprise" is suffering under there heavy hands. They are losing viewers and keep retooling the show...making it worse every time they tweak it. Fixing it would be SO easy yet no one in Hollywood seems to know how to fix either problem!
It is SO easy to fix I would work on a contingency basis, if they ratings don't go up, you don't pay me. Anyone out there in LALA land want to make the best invest you have made in years?
And this is goin on (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What about low-quality copies? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Powell to the People: Drop Dead! (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Who cares? (Score:3, Interesting)
OK, but that arrangement seems obsolete and the deal "free content for free airwaves" just isn't one they seem interested in anymore. They'll take "copy-controlled content for free airwaves" if we give it to them. But we should probably go for a "copy-controlled content on annually leased airwaves" deal.
(The revenue from leasing the airwaves could even go towards public television and pay for free content.)
Re:Blame Europe (Score:3, Interesting)
And once again their "solution" is actually perpetuating the "problem".
They could get away with such a long delay when no-one really knew about what was going on. but that time is past. Long past.
Between news sites and discussion forums, we know what the latest Season is supposed to be. Even before P2P was prevalent, it was damned annoying to know full well that we were a year behind what was supposed to be shown.
Plus it doesn't help that people probably don't really trust the TV Companies here. They air shows at the times they think suit their scedules, not the times that necessarily suit the subject matter of the shows.
A program aired at, say, 9pm in America would then get shown at 8pm on Sky One and at about 6pm on BBC 2, Channel 4 or five. This, of course, would require cuts. And, once again, the Internet means we know what we're missing.
Even in the late 1990s there were several shows that lost me as a viewer, as I soon got up to speed on episode synopses, but quickly got sick of waiting for the UK channels to catch up. Especially as they'd been known to drop shows, mess around schedules, and skip episodes - at least in reruns. (Highlander, Reboot, and Quantum Leap)
Once again it boils down to technology taking a massive leap forwards. And that's just purely on the basis of getting hold of the information. Before you even factor in the ability to download episodes, the Internet ruined the MPAA's old methods of "Keep the Brits Waiting", as even on dialup I could at least find out about what I was missing.
So if they want me as a viewer (though they probably don't...) they need to start showing stuff here in the UK within a month or so of the US broadcast date. Otherwise I'll either go P2P, or (more likely) just go without the show entirely.
TiggsRe:Thank our government for this! (Score:1, Interesting)
I completly agree though. Do you pay any less for that DVD because you had to sit thru ads every time you watch it? No. Probably somehow payed more(These is MPAA members you know). If I had a DVD player I would mod it. But I use my computer's DVD drive and a TV card to play dvds.. and rip them.. I'm allowed a backup right?
As for the broadcast flag, I see mods being done to TVs just like whats being done to DVD players, console systems, and everything else.
Re:Wait a second (Score:2, Interesting)
Uh, what about sports? For me, watching live NBA games is really the only reason I bother to pay for cable. Of course, my local cable company offers only two tiers of service:
Basic: Just local channels (as in, you could basically get these with an antenna)
Premium: Basic plus everything else including Discovery, History, seven HBO's, etc.
There is no incentive to get the basic package, and no option for those of us who just want the sports.
Oh well. It's the same old song: Tune in, turn on, drop out. If you don't like the conditions, don't watch TV.
Re:Easy solution... (Score:3, Interesting)