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ICQ Universe 107

Posted by CmdrTaco from the crossing-beyond-over-hyped dept.
scubacuda writes "PC World: ICQ Universe (now owned by AOL) will soon be the first to offer social networking services on an IM platform. One has to wonder what types of legal issues might surface as social networks (particularly those unsecured) become more popular. For example, could being an IM buddy with someone later come back and haunt you?"
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ICQ Universe More

ICQ Universe

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  • This round is a fad.

    It will last about 2-3 years and then disappear as people realize that the software does not support the true exchanges that keep human social networks running.

    And in 5-10 years someone will build social networking software that really works. Some clues: men and women build different kinds of social networks. Younger and older people build different kinds of network. Information has value. People trade information. Social networks are information economies.

    • Re:Prediction about "social network software" (Score:4, Insightful)

      by DavidDeLux ( 650471 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @10:43AM (#8490520)

      I think it will take less time that the 5-10 years you talk about... software development moves quite quickly - although I would have to say that software innovation moves less slowly ;-)

      How difficult would it be to create a network that caters for the different social groups that you talk about. But, are there any differences between the networks that these groups create? Sure, the criteria for determining who is added/excluded from a group will be different, but the underlying requirements are the same. Psychologists feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!!

    • Re:Prediction about "social network software" (Score:4, Informative)

      by Apreche ( 239272 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @10:47AM (#8490533) Homepage Journal
      May I refer you to this great article by Doug Rushkoff.

      Social Currency [rushkoff.com]

    • Re:Prediction about "social network software" (Score:5, Insightful)

      by hype7 ( 239530 ) <u3295110.anu@edu@au> on Sunday March 07, 2004 @10:48AM (#8490537) Journal
      This round is a fad.


      It will last about 2-3 years and then disappear as people realize that the software does not support the true exchanges that keep human social networks running.


      I think you're right, but I'm not sure it'll even last that long.

      The thing that has made IM so popular is not that it tries to facilitate the true exchange of human social networks, but instead it tries to support it. If organisations like ICQ refocused their efforts on how best to support existing types of human networks instead of trying to replace them, then I think they might be on to something.

      I can't remember the details, but MS (of all companies) was really on to something like this a little while back. They also limited group sizes, which is a clever way of ensuring meaningful interaction between acquaintances when they're online.

      -- james

      • The thing that has made IM so popular is not that it tries to facilitate the true exchange of human social networks, but instead it tries to support it.

        Exactly. IM should be seen as a way to support communication between people who know each other, rather than being a way to start the communication between unknown people. For many years, I avoided things like IM because it just seemed to be full of kiddies with nothing more to say that A/S/L ;-) But recently, because people I work with are all around the

        • I've made quite a few friends via IRC that I haven't even met IRL, and have gone on to continue communication with them on AIM. Is there something "wrong" with these social relationships?
          • You're supporting the parent's argument. You say you've made friends over IRC, which the parent says is what IRC is all about, and then maintained those friendships over IM.

            IM didn't help you create new friends, it helped you stay in touch with the ones you made through other channels. This is the parent's main point.
      • I don't really get the cachet of signing on to Yet Another Social Networking Site. The proliferation of SNS's in the last twelve months reminds me of the proliferation of instant messaging services after ICQ came out -- and until clients like Trillian and services like Jabber emerged, it was a huge pain in the ass to manage IM accounts on every service out there. (Perhaps someone will develop an SNS portal so that people can manage their Orkut/Friendster/Tribe.net/LinkedIn/etc. accounts all in one place?)

        If

        • That said, it would be interesting to see social-networking sites with really useful added value, perhaps in a niche-specific fashion.
          You mean like listservs, newsgroups and web forums?
          • You mean like listservs, newsgroups and web forums?

            Not at all. I don't see anything Orkut's communities do that a decent webforum doesn't already do better, presuming that the webforum allows people to link their usernames to their own webpages, as lots do.

            Actually, /. is a fine example of what I mean by "really useful added value". Its primary purpose is to disseminate news that geeks will find interesting, but it also has some networking features: you can define other users as friends, foes, &c.,

    • My hunch is that the more people know about each other, the less they will care about that information.

      A person can only intake so much information. Desensitization will play a factor in people caring less about other's raw data. Maybe it will help us look at each other in a different light: what has this person accomplished with their life and who has this person helped or hurt? Rather than do they drink a 12 pack twice a week or speed sometimes being used to paint a picture of the person. On the othe
      • A person can only intake so much information. Desensitization will play a factor in people caring less about other's raw data. Maybe it will help us look at each other in a different light: what has this person accomplished with their life and who has this person helped or hurt?

        I am going to have to go ahead and agreed with you on this.

        In psychology we call this "habitutation". There are a lot of things that enter our mind, especially due to the senses alone. Think about all the stuff you could actually

  • First Microsoft, now AOL? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Motherfucking Shit ( 636021 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @10:16AM (#8490441) Journal
    I thought this was a dupe until I went back and looked; the previous story [slashdot.org] was about Microsoft getting into this game. I wonder which one of them will be first to partner with Acxiom [slashdot.org]?

  • The Internet becomes more like the real world... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 07, 2004 @10:17AM (#8490443)
    I guess all these "social networks" make the internet more and more like the real world. Have to be careful of who you talk to, etc.

    Except of course in the real work scamming someone is a lot more work - on the internet they can't see you, so you could be scamming lots of people at once. The "social networks" might even build up a higher layer of false trust.

    Damn you internet!

    • Re:The Internet becomes more like the real world.. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by selderrr ( 523988 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @10:35AM (#8490500) Journal
      I am totally baffled... More and more, I have the impression that a majority of slashdotters is really afraid of any form of bidirectional and/or replyable (you call it tracable) communication. For heavens sake : where's the principle of "innocent till proven otherwise" ?

      I notice this attitude going on at my kids school too : don't talk to anyone, don't look at anyone, don't think about anyone. Curl up inside your safe self-shell and murmur away. I once had hope that the internet, and especially AIM were a way out of this downward spiral, but the FUDders and paranoiacs are well on their way to ruin that utopia.

      • Re:The Internet becomes more like the real world.. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by lxs ( 131946 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @11:22AM (#8490695)
        Curl up inside your safe self-shell and murmur away.

        Isn't that precisely the attitude that is fostered by these invite-only networks? The great thing about the internet today is that you can talk to people whether you belong to their clique or not.

        The fact that posts like these are public record does mean that you do have to watch your words, but I don't think that is a problem as long as your posts are reasoned out and you're prepared to defend your position, or admit that you were wrong. If someone really wants to dig up dirt they will always find something, so you might as well speak freely.

        • Re:The Internet becomes more like the real world.. (Score:4, Insightful)

          by selderrr ( 523988 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @11:29AM (#8490727) Journal
          If someone really wants to dig up dirt they will always find something, so you might as well speak freely.

          totally. In these, an AIM social network is no different from your local darts club. The point I'm trying to make is that I'm stunned by the FUDders that want to make us believe that AIM is a jungle with a IDthief behind every tree. I can't and won't let them say such nonsense. AIM is a free speech network wheer you can say dumb things that can blow up in your face. Just like real life. But that's no excuse to label it as dangerous.
          • "The point I'm trying to make is that I'm stunned by the FUDders that want to make us believe that AIM is a jungle with a IDthief behind every tree."

            Well, think of it this way. Most of us Slashdotters know this. We would laugh if someone warned us seriously of this. However, many people would take it seriously if they weren't very computer savvy. Personally, I'd rather have all of the teenyboppers on AIM be terrified of identity theft and learn to use caution when giving away their information. Even i

      • I finally joined one of the 'networks' because of a recommendation from a friend, and was a bit non-plussed by the amount of personal information I was immediately asked to provide (by choice fortunately). A wonderful database for people to phish to say the least, and I saw absolutely NO warnings about possible abuses by unknown parties. I also must admit that the program and the idea of 'networking' with a bunch of people I don't know doesn't really appeal to me, and it will probably become a dusty link.
      • If you honestly think that the legal standard ' innocent until proven guilty' still stands, then you are living in a dream land.

        Today, via things such as the patriot act, and rampant civil suits.. it has pretty much negated the entire concept..

        Even the mass media can persecute people at will with no evidence. Ruin a persons life/career due to pure hearsay..

        So yes, being prudent is appropriate..
      • What has been shown and proven at work, at home and at school is that if we don't talk to anyone, don't look at anyone, don't think about anyone but ourselves then we won't get hurt, and things will progress normally. Uneventful, yes, but in this day and age of living in fear, 'no news' really is good news.
    • On a similar note - I've often wondered why Slashdot doesn't make use of its "social network" of Friends, and Freaks to determine moderation levels. For example, if one person has lots of fans, surely what they say will be fairly good. Obviously, trolls could all register, and add their other troll accounts to their Friends list, but it would be very easy to get rid of them all, no?

      Comment 1004
      • Of course you yourself could just change your settings so all your friends receive a +1 bonus when you look at them. That way YOU are more likely to see your friends. That was not quite what you were looking for tho. It would be possible to have a new kind of karma modifier, where anyone with more than (say) 20 fans who each have excellent karma would receive an extra +1 modifier, and thus could start at +3. That would not create any kind of social network, but rather foster /. celebrities, which is not a b
  • A few years back, during the eFront Fiasco, someone got a hold of ICQ Chat Logs [com.com] off of the machine of Sam Jain, the CEO of eFront. I was an administrator of one of the sites that got hit hard by the scandal, and if my memory serves the chat logs (which included a lot of very embarassing things being said by Sam and other higher-ups at eFront) were one of the big things that resulted in eFront's eventual destruction.

    I can only imagine how much worse it will get when ICQ expands its services.

    • Chatting can indeed be dangerous!!! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 07, 2004 @11:09AM (#8490629)
      I used to work on AOL as a Guide. One time there was a Guide they suspected was into kiddie porn. So, Not only did they (Law Enforcement) read all of his email for awhile, they also read email of all the people he talked to. Basically they were on a Fishing Expedition. They thought this guy was doing kiddie porn so of course they figured everyone else he talked to must be doing kiddie porn too!

      I still remember, the day I opened my mail box (real one) and there was an envelope, from the Virgina Dept of Justice, telling me, hey guess what, we've been spying on your email for a few months while we investigated someone else. Hope you don't mind!!

      And this was 6 or 8 years ago! God knows what they can do now, with carnivore and more powerful computers.

      • All the more reason to start using jabber [jabber.org] or other similar secure IM protocols. ALso, you might consider starting to encrypt your e-mail. Not that you have anything to hide, but simply because you dislike people (your government in this case) snooping about inside your personal stuff.
      • PGP [pgp.com]

        gnuPG [gnupg.org]
      • Very interesting! I was a remote for approximately 5 years, spanning Mac Help, YouthTech, Digital City, AOL Promotions, CLC, KARES, and various other interests. I never got a "DOJ Letter," as I wasn't much for public chat or hanging with Guides, but I did get one of these [shat.net].

        I was also blocking mail from specific users long before Mail Controls were available, my experiments with screen name refresh tokens led to the eventual "Update Screen Name List" link at keyword: NAMES (a poor TechLive friend got in trou
      • The fact that all of you are confusing AIM and ICQ is exactly where your paranoid trouble lies - those are different netwroks (still, how stupid) and as long as they are, they cater different people - the close minded, the I-need-my-fix-of-the-6-oclock-news, the Id-rather-live-in-fear-than-talk-to-someone-outsi d e-of-north-america crowd of AIM, and those who actually still want to think of the world as a big place full of surprises, a world wide web indeed of ICQ users. And yes, the big bad world has porn
    • I was also an admin of one of the sites bought up by eFront during the boom, and then left to die when the cash dried up.

      I think the logs just made us all angry; the inability to adjust with changing markets when the .com bubble burst is what really killed eFront. What gets me is that they were dicks about it. They never came to me and asked to renegotiate the contract because funds were running slim, or anything like that.. they just stopped paying and (Sam) dissapeared from ICQ.

      So why didn't I just ta

  • ICQ Universe (Score:3, Funny)

    by AndroidCat ( 229562 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @10:25AM (#8490471) Homepage
    With a name like that, I'd expect to logon by typing "By the Power of Greyskull!". (Skellitor might explain the haunting part.) Or start some quest to boldly go where no one has gone before!

    Universe does not exactly suit the cozy pub atmosphere I'd be looking for.

  • what a nonsense... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by selderrr ( 523988 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @10:29AM (#8490487) Journal
    could being an IM buddy with someone later come back and haunt you?

    Could my 1 year old son being a friend with someone in day care come ack later and haunt him ?

    Puhlease ! What a FUD. Are you trying to even further associalize those who are socioophobes but found AIM a useful tool to make friends ? Stop being so afraid of life !

  • Makes life easier & harder for law enforcement (Score:5, Insightful)

    by G4from128k ( 686170 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @10:35AM (#8490502)
    Although online social network technology makes it easier for law enfrocement to track people and find out who they are connected too, it also makes life harder for the law. These types of networks encourage large numbers of connections. While the subjects of an investigation might only call a dozen different people by phone, they might have hundreds of contacts in an online environment. Tracking down all these contacts, most of whom are innocuous, becomes a labor-intensive needle-in-a-haystack problem.

    The more contacts people have, the harder it is to determine which contacts are the salient ones from the standpoint of investigation.
    • Yeah, but the data is all in a format that can be easily mined for information (which could be simple, like a grep for key words or sophisticated, like a heuristic natural language parser).

      Ask Microsoft -- I'm sure they handed over hundreds of thousands of email messages to the DoJ. Sounds daunting, but all they had to do was to search for the term "Netscape".

      Automating the searches also has another scary consequence: a computer program will do the scanning and the results will not be carefully rechecked
    • The more contacts people have, the harder it is to determine which contacts are the salient ones from the standpoint of investigation.

      Good.

  • social networking (Score:2, Informative)

    by DavidDeLux ( 650471 )

    This looks like somebody else is jumping on the social bandwagon... how many services will be popping up to offer such facilities in 2004?

    Actually, this reminds me of LinkedIn.com, but I suspect the signal-to-noise ratio will be a bit different ;-)

    In fact, I don't see anything wrong with using a computerized system to help with social netwoking... but as in real life, you gotta be careful out there, although its too early to say whether it will be better or worse than getting scammed/screwed/whatever thro

  • Invite only. So now we geeks are not invited to computer parties as well? Dang.

  • A lot of things will come back to haunt us (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sisukapalli1 ( 471175 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @10:41AM (#8490517)
    Usenet posts, for example. Slashdot posts too. However, with so many people being online, unless one plans to run for a major office, things won't be scrutinized much (or, atleast one can hope for that).

    I wonder how a race for a public office in 2020 would look like. A multimedia ad sponsored by next generation media cronies will say, "Candidate xyz posted *THIS unpatriotic message* on slashdot in 2003, so don't vote for him" A lot depends on how the people evolve by then -- may be they will wisen up and can think for themselves, or may be they no longer cease to be people and just become sheeple.

    Definitely, interesting times ahead.

    S
    • If you felt strongly enough to post your opinion to the world then I see no reason why it shouldn't be brought up later. Posting to /. or usenet is no different then stepping up to microphone in a crowded room. People will hear you.

      Of course we all have said things we regret, too many people spout off when they shouldn't. But your example of political races would prove interesting to me. If candidate X posted feelings one way on an issue 5 years ago and is now campaigning the other way, I'd certainly l

    • Re:A lot of things will come back to haunt us (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Councilor Hart ( 673770 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @12:24PM (#8490983)
      Hey guys, from 2020, who are investigating my posts.
      Please bear in mind that viewpoints can and do change.
      If everyone always stick to their opinions - right or wrong - then what is the point of debate? Changing your mind is allowed. Hopefully most - me included - do it because the arguments from the other side were better or because the first opinion was based on a flaw.
      My posts represents my viewpoint at the moment of posting. It can be different from my ideas in the past, it can be different from those in the future. My idea can change the moment I read someone's reply a few minutes later. It can change years later or not at all.
      To make progress, you have to allow that someone changes his mind.
      We are not born with ideas preprogrammed, we make them as we go through live. And we change them in those years.
      To point out what someone said 20 years ago is meaningless. Look at what is being said today.
      You can look at skills or style or ... with wich those ideas were presented at the time, but the ideas themselves could have changed.
      Is the person trustworthy and qualified? That is one of the questions you should be asking yourself.


      See you in parliament in 2020. Give or take a few years.
      english != native language

    • if you run for anything in the future:

      may be they will wisen up and can think for themselves, or may be they no longer cease to be people and just become sheeple


      sheeple as in she-people as in women? No way you're gonna get away with that, at least with half of the population. This is so discriminating!!!

      ;-)

    • You make a very good point. However if George Bush Jr can snort cocaine yet be elected President 25 years later when his party advocates mandatory prison for drug users, then I have to think there are other factors much more important to running for office. Such as: does your daddy control the CIA, are you rich, are you easily manipulated by daddy's business associates, do you have no respect for life, etc.

  • How is this different? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Garwulf ( 708651 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @10:50AM (#8490543) Homepage
    Okay, I've read the article.

    So, could somebody please explain something to me: how is this different from what ICQ and the other IMs already offer? It almost feels to me like somebody putting a nice new coat of paint on something that's already there, and then bragging about it.
    • I agree, I just don't get the fuss. Social Networking? Forums? Buddy Lists? We can say "hi" in REAL TIME :O That's just . . . AMAZING!

      The only difference I really see is that it's now by invite only. So instead of just signing up for ICQ and meeting people, you have to meet people and THEN sign up. WTF is up with that? I agree with that for adding someone to your buddy list, but just to get a stupid account?!?!

    • The only difference is currently you can't see your friend's friends list. For ICQ to implement a social networking app, they would need to permit this, but you're right, it's really just showing the same information.

    • Why, isn't that obvious? It's different in the same way that Windows 98 is different from Windows 95, or Windows XP is different from Windows 2000. And at that it it will probably have much the same effect: to dramatically increase usage and acceptance without providing additional substance.
  • Humm, I remember when ICQ was a wonder and people from around the world would drop by for a visit and a chat. Now that has changed and the only people who ever want to message me anymore are those 27 year old russian girls with websites and they want me to look at their pictures. Eh? I know where to get good p0rn and it isn't from the web or from fake 27 year old girls. I doubt very seriously that any sort of social networking system in the AOL crapware that ICQ has become can ever be good. -Unless of course there are plenty of pretty 27 year old russian girls who want to really meet me that is. So sayeth the gadlaw.

  • Not to Worry... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Quantum-Sci ( 732727 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @11:07AM (#8490615) Homepage
    could being an IM buddy with someone later come back and haunt you?

    In the US Constitution is a provision called "freedom of association". You can be friends with whom you want. (Until that too, is undermined by The Party, at least)

    If your friend is a drug dealer, just don't talk about or be involved with drugs with him.

    • If your friend is a drug dealer, just don't talk about or be involved with drugs with him.

      For most people, having a drug dealer friend is no big deal, especially if you're not involved in his / her business.

      However, do you want that person running for public office? Even if you're comfortable with it, its unlikely that all of your country would be be so enlightened.
    • ... who was send to Syria to be tortured
      because a suspected terrorist signed
      his rental lease as a witness six
      years earlier.

      "freedom of association" is nice,
      but in this terrorist-witch hunt
      society, your rights dont count
      for much.

      Therefor you should be carefull
      what to write
      (online)
      or whom do you chat with.

      Even if not
      tortured, you might find yourself
      constrained for interrogation for an
      unlimited time

      as a suspected terrorist.

      That being said, you shouldnt become paranoid either. The governement will probably
  • I meet new people via friends. You know, I get added into a group conversation (IM or IRL) and I say hi and they say hi.

    I've never used social networking websites.
  • The 'lobby' page of ICQ Universe doesn't seem to load properly; at least with the build of Mozilla I am using. Loads fine in IE. They have already limited their Universe; some sort of crazy club. Accident or on purpose? Conspiracy, anyone?

  • This bubble will burst (Score:3, Insightful)

    by heff ( 24452 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @01:02PM (#8491246)
    The social networking craze is eerily reminisent of the dotcom heyday - sure the technology is cool but does it really make all that much of a difference in the world or to people? Will people pay for it? I doubt it.

    I have no idea why all the VC's are dumping money into these things.. it's only a matter of time before this little "bubble" bursts.
  • For example, could being an IM buddy with someone later come back and haunt you?

    I think you should give these people [reynoldskitchens.com] a call.
  • Do they have to find a way to make everything crappy?

    Would be interesting thought to see how a lawyer would bring up IM stuff in court. "Ahem, well you see while the defendant was BS'in with his buddy he said some rather disturbing things, like how Jlo is mega hot, and how ACDC is the best band in the world. DAMMING I SAY!!!"

  • non-issue (Score:2, Insightful)

    by U.I.D 754625 ( 754625 )
    For example, could being an IM buddy with someone later come back and haunt you?

    In the same way talking to the person in the checkout line in front of you could come back to haunt you. Slashdot of all places tries to explain that things done on the internet are NOT NEW just because they are on the internet, and then we have a story driving the other point of view. You always have to be careful with other people, but in order to live, you can't hole up in the basement thinking mommy told me not to talk to

  • Degrees of Separation (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Atryn ( 528846 ) on Sunday March 07, 2004 @04:09PM (#8492261) Homepage
    For example, could being an IM buddy with someone later come back and haunt you?
    Well, we all know that President Bush is only 2 degrees of separation away from Osama Bin Laden (maybe 1?) and that didn't seem to hurt him any. :)

    • But we also know (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      that "degrees of seperation" is bullshit.

      It's just a matter of how generalized you allow a "seperation" to be.

      Bush declared that we will capture Osama -> one degree.

      What bull.

  • Livejournal is my social network (Score:3, Interesting)

    by samael ( 12612 ) <Andrew@Ducker.org.uk> on Sunday March 07, 2004 @06:32PM (#8493107) Homepage
    I have friends all over the place who I keep up with via LJ. Sure, I also use email and MSN/ICQ/AIM to chat. But when I want to find out what they've been up to, I check my friends list.

    LJ supports RSS, FOAF and is intrinsically interconnected. To my mind it's much more of a social network than anything else I've used.

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