The Unhappy World of IT Professionals 981
npistentis writes "According to an article on ZDNet.com, only 1 in 7 IT professionals rate themselves as "very happy" with their chosen profession- which stands in stark contrast to one in three hairdressers, plumbers and chefs, and one in four florists. But then again, very few plumbers have to deal with users who consistently download BonziBuddy, blindly click on suspicious email attachments and use their cd trays as cupholders." Of course, it should be noted that by and large IT professionals earn more money then most other jobs - which I suppose is once again a warning of money != happiness.
Not to put down hairdressers or plumbers, (Score:2, Interesting)
what makes IT professionals unhappy (Score:5, Interesting)
2. job security
thankfully, I have job security because i work for state government (state government don't lay off employees) but I still have to deal with users that should know the basics of how to use a computer since they probably have a computer at home or use their computer at work enough
The results would have been different... (Score:5, Interesting)
Self-employed (Score:4, Interesting)
Totally makes sense! (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, I am happy I have a job, and thats where it ends. I dont enjoy what I'm doing in my current job, but I know the pickings are rather slim if I leave here, my town not being a IT hub does not help either (and I really dont want to move)
If that's not enough, in the back of my mind, I'm always worried about the next down-sizing, and whether I'm on the radar for that or not.
I am sure this profile is fairly typical for most people working in IT.
Salary (Score:4, Interesting)
Over here in the UK, plumbers make an absolute fortune (well above your average code monkey) because their skills are so in demand.
Underlying commonalities? (Score:3, Interesting)
After looking through the article (gasp, I read it!) I think the authors may have missed a significant factor. Most of the "happier" professions aren't worried about their jobs getting outsourced, and don't appear to be the type of job that have bosses breathing down your neck, forcing you to work 80 hour weeks for 40 hours of pay, which, by the way, also had your salary cut.
Nurses are an example of a profession even less "happy" than IT. While nurses aren't worried about their jobs being outsourced, interestingly enough they tend to be overworked (usually 10-12 hour rotating shifts throughout the week) and underpaid, especially compared to their colleagues. But, according to the articles, they should be happy, as they are very hands on. Guess that hypothesis just got shot down.
The only useful thing I found out of this study is the actual data, which I don't really know how to treat (with suspicion?). The rest is pretty much opinionated fluff.
Re:Geek Culture (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally, I find that sort of 'pleasure' abhorent. Sitting around bitching about things, or criticizing something just for the social effect
Re:1 in 7 :) (Score:5, Interesting)
I got into college for programming at the very beginning of the boom. I did it because I liked programming, not because it was going to pay me lots of money. Of course I was looking forward to the money, but I still liked the programming.
Now, I've found that the programming is becoming stale and boring. It very well could be just this job causing those feelings, because I hardly do any real programming anymore, but until I get another programming job I won't know for sure. And I managed to graduate a year before the bust, so I couldn't build up those wages like some. I'm only making $6000 more then my starting wage 3.5 years ago. So the money definately isn't worth it. Currently, I'm considering looking for a new IT job, or going back to school for welding or something more hands-on. So at least for me, it's not so much that it's boring work, or that I'm only interested in the money. It's more that I think I need more variety and action in my job. Because god knows insurance is NOT a fun and exciting job...
Re:What?! (Score:5, Interesting)
The key to understanding the comment as given is that it is the exact same people, over and over again, downloading the BonziBuddy this week, spreading MyDoom next week, and installing three other pieces of spy ware the week after.
Then, they yell at you because they somehow, in a manner I don't fully understand, rationalize it to be your fault.
If you're a sociopath, this doesn't bother you. If you're human, the unrelenting pounding of stupid people upset at you, and in general being obstinately stupid, can easily match most plausible physical jobs. Sure, they may not be shoveling shit, but the shit shoveler can go home, take a shower, change clothes, and be more-or-less OK. The IT-frontliner goes home, and is emotionally exhausted. This should not be trivialized just because it's not physical; in many ways its worse. (For one thing, your nose tends to adjust to bad smells, your brain and emotions tend to get sensitized to stupidity.)
If a person makes a mistake and learns from it, it's understandable; we're all newbies. The good people never call because they fix their own problems. But if you think dealing with unrelenting and unapologetic (and sometime downright arrogant) stupidity is so easy, I invite you to spend a year doing front-line tech support. There is a reason the attrition rate of tech support is much higher then shit-shoveling.
And management doesn't get it.... (Score:3, Interesting)
7-Year Plan (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been in IT for nearly 10 years, and right now, I see my career as almost at a complete stand-still. Yeah, I make a decent living (on the north side of 78k a year) -- but I'm still doing the same thing I was doing in 1997 -- the only difference is, I'm a hell of a lot better at it.
Anyway, i formulated this 7-year plan where I would start to develop some of my side projects and hopefully be at a point within the 7 years that I can leave IT behind and never look back.
I think my biggest problem with IT is the people. I'm a pretty friendly guy who has a very strange sense of humor and like to read, write, watch movies, talk about art and design, music, recording and other creative things -- while everyone I work with all have CS degrees and view things like that as a sickness to be avoided. Its a shame really. Plus, the managers in IT -- I swear they just stamp them out of some machine. Some are better than the others -- and the two guys that own the small consultancy I work for are great guys, very smart and just good people... but here at the client site... these people are robots! I get constantly criticized for not being more "social" here. Well there's a reason! No one gives a damn what I'm into and what I like to talk about. I'm sorry, I just am not going to become something I'm not.
So, instead of trying to shape myself into something I'm not, I figure I need to find a way out of this IT world. I wouldn't call myself "unhappy" in fact I am a happy person -- because of my life *outside* of IT.
Of course -- 7 years is a long time, and things are subject to change... but my current frame of mind dictates that I can't just sit around and do *nothing* -- I'm not the type who just waits for things to happen. I try my hardest to make things happen (realizing of course that control is, after all, an illusion) -- but all the same. Shit aint just gonna happen just because
Evolution of IT workers (Score:4, Interesting)
Now it may take 40 years for this to happen but it happens to all (alright most for those mathematicians) IT workers; People hate change and IT is all about change everyday (every hour?). It is stressful fighting for your job everyday when new college people are released ever year with fresh training and new ideas without any legacy burden. I'm not in anyway bashing College Hires but the younger you are the more resilient you are. The more resilient you are the better you perform. So as you're moving in the IT field you need to look at moving on or up to prevent yourself from being exterminated.
Grab something to move into when you start heading into retirement age. God knows I don't want to be in IT at age 70 fending off those young whipper snappers.
Re:Not many professionals are happy. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Geek Culture (Score:4, Interesting)
Except, herding is not fun. When some idiotic thing breaks that just shouldn't or I'm answering stupid questions or fixing stupid problems caused by stupid people doing stupid things for the millionth time, I'm NOT happy. I HATE doing that.
On the other hand, when I'm writing some tricky new piece of code or working on something that I haven't done before, I AM having fun. I think a lot of IT folks just have a low tolerance for people afflicted by learned helplessness and they spend an inordinate amount of time fixing those morons' problems instead of doing something productive that they can get a feeling of satisfaction from. It only takes one person doing something really, really dumb to screw up a whole day of otherwise productive work. When you support 1500 people, odds are pretty good that one person is out there somewhere.
Re:Ouch (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Of course (Score:3, Interesting)
And now, we have to EARN the money we make, and that pisses us off. Especially programmers, who are, by definition, lazy workers (and I say this as a developer).
Re:what makes IT professionals unhappy (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Overwork makes people unhappy! (Score:3, Interesting)
You are right. The problem is that it's far cheaper for a company to work a single employee 80 hours, than to have 2 employees work 40 hours. Couple this with the supposed concept that an employee on average only does 3 hours of real work a day (I can't find the link anymore, this study was quite old), maybe companies think well, keep the employee here for 80 hours, we'll get 30 or so real hours of work out of them..
The main problem is that companies are already paying people less, but they're not hiring more people, they're paying us less to work more hours. (US workers put in most hours [cnn.com])
Re:1 in 7 :) (Score:3, Interesting)
Also keep in mind that at some point in life pretty much anything can get boring. At some point, you'll probably need to find other ways to motivate yourself other than love and excitement.
An HMO was sued on this (Score:1, Interesting)
They published the results as "99.7&% customer satisfaction" with their HMO plans.
Seems people found it a bit misleading and misrepresenting.
(yes I'm sure I have the catagories wrong, but it was the 4 out of 5 options, and the percentage might be off too but it was definately up in the suspicious range)
Tradesman vs. Proffessionals (Score:3, Interesting)
Here's the short list of why I think working in the trades would be better than my current profession (not that I'd switch).
1. Dress code: There isn't one. Paint splattered jeans and raggy sun faded T-shirts are perfectly acceptable.
2. More work = more pay. Whether it be doing more jobs in a day or just working more hours you are compensated in a linear fashion for your efforts.
3. Job market (read job security). There are never enough construction workers, plumbers, pool builders and an accute shortage of good ones.
4. Learn the trade then start your own business. While IP laws technically apply to business practices, once you learn how to be a plumber and how to deal with customers it isn't a huge leap to strike out on your own with the tricks of the trade you learned from earlier employers.
Everything is a tradeoff and its nice to know that if I were in a tragic accident leaving me a paralyzed Christopher Reeves style I could still perform my job (although typing would be a little more complicated).
You don't see many paralyzed construction workers on the job site. Although there were a lot of landscapers smoking dope, but that's neither here nor there.
Re:what makes IT professionals unhappy (Score:4, Interesting)
yeah, unless you work in arkansas. and i do. our state government just got bitch slapped by the supreme court (because of a BADLY malformed, outdated, and unconstitutional school system). Suddenly the government had to come up with several hundred million dollars - and guess where they started?
I still remember the day that they sent fully a quarter of the employees at several buildings home with no notice. they just met them at the door and said, "sorry, you don't work here anymore." Security escorted them to their desks, stood there while they cleaned them out, then walked them back out of the building.
doesn't that give you a warm, fuzzy feeling?
Re:1 in 7 :) (Score:5, Interesting)
Unless you happen to have a natural talent for it, if you go into a field for purely superficial reasons you are going to perpetuate mediocrity and, I believe, contribute to harming that industry. To summarize: Working with people who don't care really sucks for those of us that do.
At my last job, there was a strong get-it-done culture. Most people there did not go home and tinker around on the computer as a personal interest, they did their duty each day and then went on to escape the computer for the rest of the evening. I was miserable. Luckily there were a small number of people there that I could talk shop with, and who actually cared about how things were done.
At my current job, everyone is actually interested in what they are doing, and it is a *much* nicer place to be.
-If
Happy as a pig in shit (Score:1, Interesting)
We do J2EE and .NET, and I think I got the job because I was the only person willing to do either one without constant bitching about the other. I avoid the religious wars, because from the perspective of UML, who gives a fuck about what language our stuff is on if it all works?
IT folks make themselves unhappy.
We like to think that everyone should see the IT world through our eyes, which is unrealistic and juvenile. Users are stupid. Developers and Tech Support are arrogant. So what? How does that help your company be successful enough not to can your ass and send your job to India?
Wanna be happy in IT? Shut the fuck up and be known as the most helpful person in the building. Love Java and hate .NET? So what. Keep your opinion to yourself unless asked. I've got a guy working for me who sees saving Java from .NET as a mission from God, more important than taking the occasional shower if it means taking time away from documenting all the ways that C# stole from Java. All he's done is put himself on the top of the layoff list should the Bank go 100% .NET someday.
Users are stupid because their jobs and their LIVES do not revolve around virus avoidance, bitching about how VB.NET means you have to really LEARN TO CODE, you VB no-array-knowing fuck. They come to work thinking about things in another fucking universe. If I ask a code warrior to whip up a P&L statement in Excel, he'll look stupid too.
I'm one of the happy ones, because I got through the standard IT bullshit by treating it as what it is. A JOB. Your job is not there to make you happy to be alive, asshole. Its there to keep you fed and clothed and getting laid until you get promoted up to something that gets you better clothes, better food and better women.
In the mean time, think about how much time you wasted bitching about your religious technology preferences, when you could have been learning something, you no-stored procedure-writing, couldnt-find-a-DAL-if-it-bit-you-on-the-ass loser.
Other stories too... (Score:5, Interesting)
There's definitely some of that -- don't even ask me how many art or business majors I knew back in the day who were "retrained" for IT -- but I think a lot of those people have been shaken out of it by now, either by leaving the industry entirely or, more frighteningly, by scurrying up to management.
But there are other stories, too. The simple fact is, most college educations will not in the least prepare you for the realities of working as a programmer. (I'll speak to that specifically, since it's what I know -- other IT jobs may vary.)
Some of this is relatively trivial. I was forced to take a lot of comp sci theory classes that have never and will never be useful on the job. Some of that was interesting, some of it was there simply because the university had professors that knew it and did research on it and they didn't know what else to do with them. Instead of, say, 10% of my course load being required to be physics, they could have had me take even a single class involving databases, something many professional programmers will touch on nearly every day of their working lives. That part of it though, is water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned. People who like the field and want to be in it can learn and adapt to overcome those kinds of gaps.
The more troubling thing is that working as a programmer is a whole lot different than doing programming in college.
I've known people who loved programming and did great with it in school and for their own projects, but who were utterly broken by the realities of dealing with clients. Some couldn't handle the (gasp) social skills tasks of having to deal with clients or non-technical people at their own companies. Others were slowly ground down towards insanity by having to continually retrofit their work to comply with the seemingly insane demands of the clients or end users. When you do programming projects in school or for yourself, the spec rarely changes fifty times partway through for (as far as you can tell) no reason. In the real world, it happens all the time.
To take another example, I work with a guy who will probably be shaken out of the IT industry sooner or later. It's obvious to everyone, including him, that he isn't happy. It's not that he doesn't like programming in general. The problem, in his case, are the realities of enterprise level programming. He can't stand that he can write some code, test it and find it working just fine, and come in to work the next day to discover that someone else on the far side of the office working on a seemingly unrelated one of the few thousand files that make up the project has effectively broken his work. He can't take looking at something that works one day and not the next and not even (without doing a fair amount of investigation) know how or why. That's another reality of working in IT that doesn't really come up in school.
Myself, I'm happy, but sometimes it's true what they say: If you love something, the last thing you want to try to do is do it for a living.
Re:Overwork makes people unhappy! (Score:2, Interesting)
One day I basically snapped.. not in post-office rampage style, but I walked in, and looking ahead to another 12 hour day, I just decided then and there that I couldn't do it anymore. I told them that I quit, then went home and took a three-day nap.
However, I had also forgotten how much it sucks to look for a job..
So, I went on welfare. Honestly, it's the most satisfying job i've ever had. I'm absolutely broke, but after working 80 hour weeks, it feels like I'm getting paid in time. It's more satisfying to spend all day looking out the window than blowing $1000 at Best Buy on the way home from work to justify what I went through on a daily basis.
As for feeling like a "productive member of society", I don't really care. Just think about it as another available job for your greedy ass.
Re:Of course (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm 29, I started programming when I was about 10. I love to program. But I don't work as a programmer; if I worked as a programmer, I'd hate it. Instead I program for fun, and love it.
Most computer related jobs are boring. Just as most building or dental or whatever jobs are boring. Too many people I know entered computing because they read of these fantastic salaries. Some of my friends in '99 were (aged 24) were earning $150k as Y2K contractors (with v. limited skillsets).
Forget India, there are simply too many people chasing too few computing jobs. That's what has given you job insecurity.
Go and do something boring (finance, accounting, law), so that when you program, you're doing it for fun.
Programmers in IT get treated poorly (Score:5, Interesting)
Moving from programmer to tile layer. (Score:2, Interesting)
This move have definitly improved my happy status, I can easily say I'm one of those 6 out of 7 that did not concider myself more than "good".
Working outdoors, with customers which are mostly happy with the work you do, and you don't have to deal with updating the work you do all the time, rules. I have one project per week in general, so every week, new places, new people, new objects.
I would recommend to do the change if it's possible, I had the luck to be able to join a school to learn my current profession. But if you really want to become something, nothing should stop you from trying.
Albert
I _have_ Been a Plumber (Score:4, Interesting)
Now, that occupation _is_ much more cyclic than IT has been until the effects of the H-1b/L-1 expansion set in 4 years ago.
Now for non-union guys, rates vary considerably with business skills and technical skills in the occupation. For union guys, what varies isn't just rate, but how much folks get to work when work is scarce(folks with high demand skills work more regularly).
Job security (Score:3, Interesting)
I've got contract opportunities left and right, but I really miss being able to form long-term relationships with the people I work with, to get to know the organization and the details of the business I'm working in, and to not have that termination date always looming ahead.
I can't believe that it doesn't affect a person on at least a subconscious level to know that there's a definite date after which they are unemployed and their future is uncertain. It makes it difficult to buy a house and plan long term, when you don't know where you'll have to move for your next job, or how long you'll be unemployed if you choose to stay in the same location.
Add to this the fact that most contract positions are for very short periods -- less than two years -- to avoid lawsuits (contractors suing for benefits as employees since they've been in a position for years -- the MS case set a precedent) and you have a high-stress situation.
It isn't as if, in IT, you can plan ahead and line up future work a year in advance; most contract positions are immediate or near-future opportunities.
Yes, in today's economy, there's no guarantee of long-term employment, but with a permanent position, there's at least the illusion of long term employment, and there are darned few of those positions available for software developers.
It's the "Big Fraud" (Score:2, Interesting)
However I am miserable that rates have crashed, that work is scant and abusive, that my IRA has been obliterated, that stupid people still run this zoo, that my healthcare costs keep rising, that I'm being taxed to pay for stupid foreign wars, that billions of dollars were plundered from the economy by corporate fraud and so far we've busted Martha Stewart, that a neo-con fascist coup has occurred and is winning in my home country, and I'm really unhappy with the thought that the ONLY thing I have to look forward to is that in 25+ years or so, after my last paycheck has been spent, I can put a gun to my head and begin a very brief 9mm retirement...
Nope I'm not unhappy with software, I'm sick and tired of the whole entire complete FRAUD that is life on planet earth...
--Richard
Obvious (Score:2, Interesting)
The interesting question is _why_.
anthony
Re:1 in 7 :) (Score:3, Interesting)
My girlfriend's cousin grosses like $65-75k as a hairdresser... but she works at a "high end" shop frequented by local TV dorks and other minor celebrities and rich folk.
Plenty of IT folks are slaving away for $32-40k with $50k+ worth of student loans on their backs.
Re:Its not always users (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the things that boggled me when I first got into Systems Administration was how a lot of admins were roped into just a couple of different tasks and knew absolutely nothing outside of that realm. Sure, they have college degrees and no doubt are intelligent people, but I couldn't fathom how they didn't have the desire and tenacity to learn it all.
See, I was new and hungry. Everything around me I wanted to learn and did to the best of my ability. I got great enjoyment from my job. I got to travel, I was paid well, and things were good.
As time passed on and the years seemed to blend together, something changed. I started noticing little things about my career... One thing was job growth..career growth.. Where was I going ? Did I want to be a manager? Was there really anything beyond Systems Administration? I looked at some of the veterans in the company, guys that have been here for 20+ years. They are still SA's.. some of them lead projects..some are stuck in their old ways, refusing to learn new technology..refusing to implement anything new. Scared to touch certain things because they are scared it will come crumbling down. Some letting their pride get in the way of good worksmanship. Some of the less technical ones have gone the way of management.
Do I want to be an SA in 20 years from now? I dunno... I used to read man pages for fun..I don't really find that fun anymore. Can't really pinpoint why. RFC's before bed... Tech manuals like novels. Perhaps I'm burned out... but from what? I'm doing what I've always wanted to do.. Perhaps it is my current company. Maybe I'm not suited for stagnant environments. Maybe it's 8 years of sitting in a 8x8 cubicle , which is in fact smaller than a jail cell.. I've even considered a career change, hell, I'm still young enough.
-L
Re:1 in 7 :) (Score:5, Interesting)
For the last 4 years, my job title has been 'programmer'.
During this time, if you lump it all together, I have probably spent about 1 of those years programming.
The rest is:
I generally enjoy all of this. If all I did was write code all day- I think I would be bored out of my mind. Occasionally sitting in a meeting mindlessly staring out the window while they talk about our 'under-served clientele' (I work for the government, and EVERYONE is underserved...except for me) can be relaxing. If nothing else I get to learn a lot of new politically correct buzzwords.
Like a lot of people, I don't see myself writing code for the next 20 years. I would like to be in a position like my boss has. She was a good techie, who (rightfully) got promoted up. As long as she hires other good techies, she is set. And, when she wants to, she can get her hands dirty in some interesting project.
Preach On (Score:3, Interesting)
And it brings me to a point that has taken years for me to discover - computers should be treated somewhat like cars and airplanes.
You must study, practice, and demonstrate a minimum level of proficiency to be allowed to operate a car. The same is true of airplanes, but the effort is much greater (as is the cost).
It is an unfortunate effect of marketing that we have people believing computers should be so easy to use that they need no training. Look at a microwave - a true appliance. I'll bet most people only know how to use a microwave to 1/10 of its designed capability. And even then I suspect people don't use the features correctly.
Computer users should have to invest a certain amount of time in regular training - OS use, general application user, and custom application use. There should probably also be a required "Defensive Computing" class, with test, that is required once a year.
It's not all the fault of the users though. Some programs/OSs behave poorly, some hardware does actually fail, etc. But when fixing those problems, you (the IT person) aren't required to be nice to the moron who created the problem (since they are probably far away).
Lies, Damned Lies, and... (Score:1, Interesting)
Software Engineering (Score:5, Interesting)
I somewhat disagree with your analogy. Although I do see some IT shops that view programming talent with the 'factory' mindset, I think a majority of large software products want you to apply what you're studying: Software Engineering.
I know, I know, there are 10k /. readers out there who just rolled their eyes ("Software development is not like bridge design!" "Programmers are not engineers!") but there are engineering practices that are applicable to software development: proper QA/QC, documenting everything, spending 70% of the SDLC in requirements and design, carefully designing dependencies before implementation, etc. These are not by themselves fun or 'crafty' activities, but in the bigger picture of developing a large and mature software project, can be very fulfilling.
That is not to say you can ROM the time for a software project like a bridge; there are things unique to each and every large project that cannot be accounted for. But, if care is given during the software lifecycle, a project team can deliver a mature, maintainable, usable project, still allow the company to make money, and still allow the developers to practice some 'craft'. I do believe that the difference between the best packages and the average ones lie in the company's investment in that last activity.
*BUT*, craft by itself, in anything but small to medium-small IT projects, is asking for disaster in terms of budget and schedule. The SEI level 1 nickname isn't 'folklore' for nothing. In fact, I would postulate that that's why so many jobs are going away from the Western companies: Western developers' insistence that software development is some kind of magic that cannot even be remotely predicted or estimated. Nonsense!
liars, damn liars, and statisticians (Score:2, Interesting)
If you ask any group of human beings if they
would rate themselves as 'very happy' none of
them will respond with very high percentages.
This is a troll or a study by someone
who's not got a clue yet.
Re:1 in 7 :) (Score:2, Interesting)
Plumbers Have to deal with id10ts also (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:People are the key (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't know how long that can last, though... Someone has to do work. We can't function as an economy full of marketroids selling bullshit back and forth to each other forever.
It would seem that there would be a breaking point where places like India realize that upper management doesn't really serve any function other than as a money sink. Nameless programmers at Bangalore sweatcubicles will eventually come up with their own ideas, and there will be no reason for them to pay tribute to American managers anymore.
Marketing itself has become more and more irrelevant as time goes on. It's no longer a matter of marketroids trying to push a solution for a problem that never existed, it's a matter of people looking for ready solutions - large distribution networks aren't really an issue with the internet, if a Bangalore programmer comes up with a niche package and offers it for sale on the internet, someone having that problem will find them, a sale will be made. After many sales, they will have a reputation. If it's a good reputation, they can branch out into more and more general projects.
So what's the solution? It certainly doesn't look like there's any painless one.
A severe devaluation of the US housing market would help. People say it's the taxes that make us unable to compete - which isn't necessarily true (aside from property taxes, which are part and parcel of the housing market). Taxes are a proportion of income, and the income required to live is far higher than competitive.
It would be a lot easier to compete if it were possible to find living spaces for less than $100/month. We certainly can't compete if it costs an entire Indian yearly salary every month for some shitbox apartment.
I think an interesting experiment would be a US-based "coding commune"... say.. 50 programmers living in a single building where each person outright owns a share of the building. Companies could "offshore" their work to the commune - their negligible cost of living compared to US programmers flushing their income down the toilet in $1500/month rents would offset the now-marginal cost benefit of hiring Indian programmers.
Re:Programmers in IT get treated poorly (Score:2, Interesting)
Unfortunately American business has gone a long way down that road...
True (Score:3, Interesting)
====--====
Spoken like someone whos never been the 7-11 guy. (Score:3, Interesting)
You've never put yourself through college at a 7-Eleven have you.
I had a guy enter and ask to buy plane tickets on southwest airlines and scream at me when I told him I was not a travel agent.
I had a little old lady that I had to call the cops to remove because I wouldn't sell her a car wash. The fact that the 7-Eleven I was working in didn't HAVE a car wash was a big factor in that. No amount of explaining to this senile woman would explain that. After she began to chuck can goods at me I called the cops. Alzheimer I'd guess...
People all the time would throw down the wrong credit card and bitch because I wouldn't take it.
People will ask for anything.
Re:Preach On (Score:3, Interesting)
The other 90% of those features are not worth using. My microwave has auto reheat settings that require inputting quantities of units of food. However, the names of the units are printed only in the user's manual and not on the LCD, meaning I can't remember if "0.5" means "cups" or "pounds" or "servings" or "ounces" of oatmeal.
Another much fancier microwave I used recently has a knob on the front for selecting modes of operation. There must be a dozen modes of operation. Just getting to "run this damn thing on high for 30 seconds" requires pushing a button and rotating the knob clockwise through a half dozen modes, then pushing the knob, then rotating it for the amount of time, then pushing it again. It literally takes 30 seconds of effort to get the thing to run for 30 seconds.
Personal computers take these problems, multiply them by 10, and then add a percentage chance of failure. The best computers for productivity were those green-screen dumb terminals for data entry or even perhaps DOS text-based programs, but now those all got replaced by full-blown desktops complete with Internet access and Windows Media Player and presentation time-sink software. Sometimes I really hate "progress".
My $0.02 (Score:4, Interesting)
I work as an independent consultant. My largest client has about 130 staff. I do database engineering, software design, and Linux system administration for a total customer base of around a dozen clients.
Every day is unique. Yesterday I developed, tested, and began using a new template system for PHP [sourceforge.net] that is much, much faster than the PHPLib template system I've used for the past 4 years.
Today, I'm going to be refining an application framework for a company I'm partner in, writing a backup system based on rsync, and working on transferring Internet services from a couple of servers to a couple of other newer replacements.
I deal with customers directly, and get to hear the shreiks and exclamations when they realize how much easier I've just made their life...
I spend an average about 1-3 hours on the phone every single day, dealing with clients all over North America, and I put in an average of around 4-7 hours of billable time.
My average workday is generally between 8-12 hours a day. Sometimes, I take the day off with no prior planning. Sometimes I work 18 hours straight.
I love my job, and it loves me!
Jumping in Late with the Non-Profit Perspective (Score:2, Interesting)
For what it's worth... I'm not an "IT" professional by the standards of most /.ers, but I am the computer guy for a family violence shelter in a small city.
I don't get paid well because my employer would rather use the money to keep families safe, but I am afforded a lot of freedom in running things computer-wise. Also, the fact that we're small means that we use every resource to its fullest capacity and that innovation is appreciated. I can't write C++, but making an Access database that will track donations and reduce by 75% the time spent writing thank-you letters is a big deal, and is noted and appreciated. When a desktop user gets a weird attachment, she calls across the office to ask me about it and problems are headed off early; I also have the luxury of great tech-support by our ISP, who know us by name as an organization and know me personally. When a realty company upgraded its system, we got a bunch of old P-I's and I got to spend a couple of days cannibalizing and frankensteining 13 crap systems into 4 or 5 good ones that went to clients and appreciative end-users here.
My job is varied and fun, and working for a small organization includes a great amount of personal freedom that offsets much of the lack of pay. When my girl shows up to take me to lunch unexpectedly, I can take some extra time to enjoy it without worrying about some PHB. While I'm out, I can swing by the printer's office to drop off the files for our next brochure (files which, incidentally, their graphic-arts guy personally showed me how to tweak for 4-color printing). People really appreciate the skill and ability that I bring to the job, and I'm truly not much more than a glorified end-user, myself. I'm not acclaimed by the world's I.T. community for the l337ness of my code, but when I do something nifty for a coworker there's a very high chance that I'll be acclaimed with a donut.
All of the above is only buttressed by the fact that I get to see women walk into our shelter bleeding from abuse and walk back out on the road to a better life. If you're really unhappy with your job, try looking for someplace small. You won't get rich, but by helping others you may end up helping yourself.
The Dalai Llama
You may also be afforded the luxury of posting to slashdot on your breaks and checking out The Onion on your lunch hour
Re:My interest has waned (Score:4, Interesting)
I used to be a full-time software developer, but now I've moved into the bit generically known as "IT". Some days, I can be writing C, doing low level bit-twiddling for a test suite for a custom printer we're planning on using. Friday, I installed a 48-port switch in the network rack. Today, I wired in two new servers and installed some software. Last week, I set up a system to write hard drive images 30 at a time with the help of a Knoppix CD I customized. Last Thursday, I configured a new OpenBSD firewall for a brand new test network. Today, I helped a user learn how to use WinZip. Last year, with knowledge gained from the software development experiece I had, I selected a new counter system for our franchisees.
My job can't be outsourced - it requires physical presence. I get to do different things every day. I even get to weild a screwdriver and there's even the odd opportunity to inflict injuries on innocent electronics with a solderin iron. Two years ago, I was doing exactly what you were doing (but I had quite a lot of interest in it - creating new software systems is something I find fun). But this is more fun - I still do a little bit of software development, but I get to do an awful lot of other stuff.
Re:What?! (Score:3, Interesting)
Its a documented (Swedish study I can't remember) mediacl fact that working with stupid people raises your blood pressure, and causes heart attacks.
This is what the parent is talking about:
WORKING WITH IDIOTS CAN KILL YOU [weeklyworldnews.com]
Time prediction on projects. (Score:4, Interesting)
Western developers' insistence that software development is some kind of magic that cannot even be remotely predicted or estimated. Nonsense!
I would be interested in hearing any links to resources that you have found really, honestly valuable when it comes to predicting time of a project, how many lines of code are involved. So far, software engineering books seem to be full of buzzwords and short on actual useful content, and I've seen only very vague rules of thumb from people that predict project time estimates.
I can understand predicting the time to build a building. All the operations that must be performed are known roughly in advance -- laying a brick is a simple, repetitive operation, and determining the time to lay a thousand bricks is hence fairly simple. Determining the time to finish a project just seems...an almost incredible art.
Businessmen have been trained to use specific management techniques and some simple models ("this task depends on that, we expose ourselves to 30% risk by doing this") and have systems that require tasks with bounded time. As far as I can tell, this just results in contractors and other people selling mostly bullshit estimates, and then if time needs to be extended, coming up with some sort of excuse for more time that doesn't put them at fault ("The interface documentation from this other contractor is incorrect, and will cost us a month to make up the time loss.").
It just seems to me that currently, time estimation on a software project is closer than anything else to time estimation on pure research -- you really *don't know* very well when you'll get someone who makes a breakthrough, but it's required to fit in a corporate world that expects time limits. I just don't see this as egotism of software developers so much as the fact that the process really is just about the most complex commissioned task that you can hire someone to do -- you don't know how it will work until you're at *least* through the full design phase. People in most "creative"-class disciplines, like painters, work in a field where their output quality is somewhat analog. If they have to, they can speed up and come up with a lower-quality output, and it's hard to call them on it. A software developer is the only profession I can think of off the cuff where you have almost no idea how the system will work initially *and* it's easy for the client to come up with a boolean "this meets requirements" or "this does not meet requirements".
Re:Not many professionals are happy. (Score:2, Interesting)
A plumber is often responding to a user-created problem. The kid dropped a toy, someone accidentally flushed their pager/glasses etc. So you get someone who is apologetic and embarassed as well as critically in need of the service. The critical need makes the plumber someone who is saving you.
An electrician on the other hand deals with things that are less likely to be user error. Lots of people feel they have more right to be a PITA if the problem wasn't their fault. And electricity is very important, but I can live without electricity for a few days much more comfortably than I can without going to the bathroom or showering. So it is more of a huge inconvenience than emergency. And as with any inconvenience, the person who comes to fix it gets the brunt of the user frustration.
Then of course there is the fact that if an electrician screws up and touches the wrong thing he can die. The plumber has that to a minor extent, but can solve that just by washing his hands.
It's Easy! (Score:3, Interesting)
At my previous employer (where I worked in marketing), I saw this all the time:
Manager: Could you add a new "flag" column to the database.
IT Guy: Ummm just spent three weeks planning the schema [context: just launched web site yesterday]...we have to take a look...
Manager: What's the problem? It should be easy! Just add the flag column, ok?
OR
Manager: We just signed a contract with vendor X. We're going to migrate all our web applications to X's servers.
IT Guy: Umm...that's a different architecture, there might be some problems.
Manager: [befuddled look] What's the problem, just copy-paste the files!
OR
Manager: I don't like our homepage layout. Could you move this [dyanmic section] over here and change the page color scheme so it looks "lighter."
IT Guy: Ok, I'm going to need a couple days to figure out how to do that [thinking: plus check with our graphic design dept].
Manager: What's the problem? Just make the changes - it should be easy!
Now I'm on the other side at a different company, I still see the same thing is happening:
Manager: How come you haven't gotten project Z done?
IT Guy: Because I'm working on project W and after that I've got project X and Y.
IT Guy: And don't forget about projects U and V.
Manager: What are you talking about? The only thing that should take you longer than 10 minutes is W!
Parting thought: I wonder how a plumber would react if you stood over them while they worked and then tried to tell them that their job was "easy."
Differences in day-to-day job actvities (Score:3, Interesting)
When you look closely at the list of job types vs. satisfaction, and what the normal person does on a daily basis in those jobs, it becomes very apparent as to why people are dissatisfied in their current job:
Care Assistants - most of these folks enjoy dealing with people. They define the phrase "people person". Their happiness is not purchased by money but is found in the reward of helping others.
Jump to IT and other jobs with similar satisfaction levels:
Mechanics - Secretaries - IT - What do these folks have in common? For the most part, they excel at what they do. How much can a good mechanic/secretary/IT person improve your life? Quite a bit, or we wouldn't have them around. They all perform tasks that we could do ourselves fairly easily if we wanted to take the time to figure it out; however, we know that these jobs can be done BETTER by those who have training in the area.
But why are they unsatisfied? Because on a normal day, all they do is fix stuff that someone else can't/won't fix. The mechanic is always fixing what someone else broke. The IT staff is doing the same thing. Secretary - you tell me how hard it is to schedule your own meetings in some calendaring software...
When I saw that teachers were at 8% I thought that was a little high. Dealing with crap from all sides (administrators, parents, students) would give me a negative job satisfaction level without fail.
The bottom line is that people, in general, are careless and somewhat stupid. They don't take the time to realize what needs to be done on a daily basis to accommodate their sometimes ludicrous demands. As the pace of society increases we become less likely to care about the concerns of others.
And it shows.
Re:1 in 7 :) (Score:3, Interesting)
That would certainly explain why florists, hairdressers, and soon have higher job satisfaction -- not a lot of Fortune 500 florists or salons out there...
I currently work for a large telecommunications company and definitely miss my days back at smaller companies, so count me as one of those seven.
Re:Overwork makes people unhappy! (Score:3, Interesting)
Years ago I used to work at a big biotech company mostly-owned by a big European pharmaceutical company.
Back in California we had a pretty relaxed work atmosphere, it was even fun sometimes, and we often worked ridiculous hours to meet deadlines and get things done and just generally feel like we were working as hard as we should.
I went over to the European company for a week to do some database stuff in the equivalent department to the one I worked for back home.
Interestingly enough, their office was quite boring by comparison. Nobody "did lunch," just everyone went and ate together in the cafeteria, which was only open at lunch and paid for with company-provided meal tickets (we had various cafeterias around the campus open most of the day, cheap but you did pay). People took a couple coffee breaks a day, usually half the office together in the coffee room, where they paid for their coffee with tokens provided by the company (we had free espresso). That's where the smokers could smoke, so there was no "going out for a smoke" and associated socializing. There was almost zero banter. Though there wasn't a dress code, nobody was below "business casual."
It wasn't very exciting at all. Pleasant, friendly, but not exciting.
HOWEVER, they basically never worked more than 8 hours a day. Everyone was in by 8 or 9, everyone was out by 5 or 6, and nobody even for a moment pretended that the job was more important than any other part of their lives.
All in all I got the impression they were more productive than we were, even if less innovative.
This is no surprise to any of us geeks (Score:1, Interesting)
And let me tell you, I was fucking MISERABLE. I didn't care how much I got paid. IT support is a nightmare. Why? Because day in and day out, you are dealing with people who just DO NOT UNDERSTAND COMPUTERS! You try to explain to the over and over what NOT to do and they still do it. They have no clue how to solve their own problems so it's up to you to do it ad nauseum.
The first company I worked for published a few trade magazines. There was one editor, who had been there for YEARS, who couldn't figure out how to do such simple things as set margins in MS Word. And, mind you, most of these people used Macs, too!
IT jobs are, for the most part, very thankless and are a sure way to slowly make you hate humanity because you figured out how to set up, fix and use computers pretty easily, yet it's impossible for anyone else. It burns away your soul.
To make matters worse, you ALWAYS have a higher up that has no goddamn clue about technology, yet they rule your life and implement stupid policies that make your life and your job that much more difficult. I've been there. The VP of Tech at my last company didn't know the difference between a USB and ethernet hub and was convinced it only took 10 minutes to build an NT server.
So, now I'm a newspaper reporter making absolutely no money, but a hell of a lot happier. To make extra cash, I do home tech support for $75/hour.
Re:Software Engineering (Score:1, Interesting)
Mercy! No, those are exact reasons why so many projects fail. Wasting 70% of time in requirements and design is like boarding Titanic; it goes long way towards ensuring nothing of much use comes out of the project. You will end up with neat book of requirements (of which half are already obsolete); ditto for documentation, and nada for implementation. Or, alternatively, you do get things done, using up 2x or more time than what more agile process would have taken.
And as to your implication that, say, indians are better off doing old-fashioned waterfall requirements-heave processes, and thus overtake "our" jobs... I firmly believe that is one reason why most projects using offshore teams fail. Not spectacularly -- after all, you "saved 75%" -- but reliably. You cut your losses, but gain little in return.
All of above is not to say there shouldn't be any discipline, or that design is futile. Quite on contrary. It's just that "traditional" SE processes are a failure; software development is and will not be engineering. As soon as one could formalize it properly with engineering terms, there is NO NEED TO DEVELOP IT. Problem has been solved; implementation exists. And then developers need to tackle next, more advanced, problems, for which process is untamed... and that gets eventually resolved.