A Ready-Made MythTV Set-Top Box in Australia 263
Anonymous Coward writes "Australian Personal Computer magazine published a review of a new all-in-one set-top-box based on linux.
A quick analysis of the device yields some cheats/hacks that not only allow you to enable the advertisment skipping feature they disabled, but could allow system compromise.
The system also runs a GPL version of MythTV - anyone else see any licensing issues?" Only if they don't follow the GPL.
looking (Score:1, Informative)
Re:looking (Score:5, Informative)
Re:looking (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Well, is it a modified MythTV (Score:2, Informative)
Re:looking (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Well, is it a modified MythTV (Score:2, Informative)
I'm no lawyer but... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Well, is it a modified MythTV (Score:4, Informative)
The GPL is pretty general about the issue of how to provide the source code. It primarily reinforces that 1) you have to provide it to those who ask for it and 2) it must be for a reasonable fee only to cover costs.
Re:Well, is it a modified MythTV (Score:2, Informative)
b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
Which offers all kinds of nasty things you can do, like put that notice on the copyrights page in the manual that most people don't even glance at.
For God's sake (Score:5, Informative)
Commercial does not mean proprietary. Selling commercial products using Open Source is great - it often helps pay OSS programmers rent.
Why on earth do the Slashbots immediately assume anyone selling OSS is a) violating the GPL and b) evil ?
Re:After seeing the prices they are asking, (Score:5, Informative)
Multiply by 0.65 to get the price in USD.
GPL Compliance (Score:5, Informative)
The openly admit it runs MythTV (once you find the comments), and that the source code is available ON the device itself...
Technically speaking, I think that actually qualifies for compliance.
Discussed ad nauseum on mythtv user's list (Score:5, Informative)
Re:A$1,1799 - Ouch (Score:4, Informative)
400+50+100+150+30+90=820$
400+200+100+150+80+1
So even buying everything off the shelf you could probably put together one of these systems for less than that price. Coupled with the fact that they should be mass producing these bastards they should be selling them for sub 700 bucks, and probably 400-500 if they want to be competitive.
Just my many thousand cents
-- vranash
Re:After seeing the prices they are asking, (Score:1, Informative)
Re:I've been waiting for this... (Score:5, Informative)
The source is in the ISO. Some people identified some minor issues of non-compliance but the company already made clear that they wanted to comply fully and also want to contribute some things to the project.
If all these GPL fanatics would do some research before crying out loud...
Re:I find SageTV to be even better (Score:5, Informative)
Plus mythtv gives you an integrated weather viewer, photo gallery, caller id display, web browser, Multiple frontend and backend setups (Hello having the backend in the basement doing all the recording and nice little epia based wireless boxes upstairs doing the frontend stuff). Hell, once the mfd stuff is done (music will probably be in the next release with video and tv to follow) you won't even have to configure anything. Just plop a new box down on the lan and it'll automagically get access to the backend and livetv, etc.
also, your cost is 0, where sagetv costs 50 or 60 bucks.
Hell, you can even get knoppmyth, which makes installation a twenty minute breeze (that's a complete linux install).
Call me when sagetv catches up.
Re:For God's sake (Score:5, Informative)
They posted to the Myth list today... (Score:5, Informative)
According to the email, the developer sent a message to Issac (lead developer for Myth) and I'm assuming that they're going to be working together to make Myth a better product.
Don't listen to the 'tards, this is good for Mythtv.
--Ajay
Re:After seeing the prices they are asking, (Score:2, Informative)
Re:For God's sake (Score:4, Informative)
The company in question have also said that they will be contributing back (some of) their code shortly.
Re:looking (Score:5, Informative)
From the owner's manual available here [d1.com.au]
GNU GPL LicenseYour Rights Under the GNU GPL
The software used in the Home Media Centre is based on GNU General Public License (GNU GPL) software, with some further enhancements and modifications. This gives you, the purchaser, certain legal rights including the right to examine, modify and re-distribute the source code without the permission of Development One. To allow you to do these things, Development One has placed a copy of the Home Media Centre source code on the unit itself. In order to access the source code you will need to connect a VGA monitor, keyboard and mouse to the appropriate ports on the back of the unit. You can then logon as user "root" with the password "HomeMediaCentre". You can find the source code in various directories under "/root/hmc/". For further information regarding the software and the modifications you may make to it, refer to the MythTV PVR Project at http://www.mythtv.org. However, be aware that you may only modify and distribute the source code in accordance with the GNU GPL. Before you do any of these things please ensure you fully understand your obligations by viewing the full text of the GNU GPL at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt.
The GNU GPL and Your Warranty
You have been provided with a warranty by Development One. This warranty covers the parts, labour and software components of your Home Media Centre. In order to maintain this warranty you must meet certain obligations. One of these obligations is that you do not modify the software on your Home Media Centre in a manner not authorised by Development One (see your warranty card for further details and other obligations.) This warranty does not in any way derogate from the legal rights you have under the GNU GPL. You may examine the source code without affecting your warranty. You may also modify any copy of the source code not stored on your Home Media Centre without affecting your warranty. However be aware that modifying the original copy of the source code on your Home Media Centre, recompiling the source code or any other unauthorised modification of the software on your Home Media Centre will void your warranty. A Home Media Centre which has had unauthorised modifications, whether made pursuant to your rights under the GNU GPL or otherwise, is not covered by your warranty.
Myth project (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Well, is it a modified MythTV (Score:5, Informative)
So if I want to distribute a commerical product using GPL code I must seperate the GPL code from the commerical code? Differentiate then at a function based level? Class Level? File Level? Logical Level? Can I re-write functions internal to the GPL project to get the output I need?
nonononono.
First, decide if you want your product to be GPL. If not, then you can't use any GPL code at all, on the level you're talking. If you want to include GPL software on your CD, but your actual program is separate and independent of the GPL stuff, no problem. You must provide sources for the GPL product, but not yours.
Second, commercial or non-commercial is irrelevant. Forget about it. The only issue is when you charge for the source code, you can't charge more than "reasonable cost of media" or somesuch.
Third, if you don't want your program to be GPL, but you want to use open source code, make sure you link dynamically to libraries that are LGPL, or another open source license that allows dynamic linking in that fashion.
Fourth, you have to deal with license compatibility. I think it's possible to link to a GPL library statically, or to incorporate GPL code into yours without GPLing your own code, but you have to release your code under a GPL-compatible license. That area is complicated and I don't completely understand it myself.
So, in summary, if you want your program to be GPL, you don't have to worry about separating your code from theirs. You only have to make sure you keep all copyright notices intact, and you note what changes you made to the code and place your own copyright notices around your own code. The end result will all be GPL, so you just want to make sure your contributions are noted. This is important in the future because if you don't, and the core developers all agree to change the license, they could change the license on your code without your permission, but they don't know they need your permission because you didn't mark your code properly.
The GPL doesn't deal with commercial vs non-commercial uses of the software, it only deals with distribution--all distribution.
If you dynamically link to LGPL libraries, you must provide the source code upon request to those libraries, but you do not have to provide the source code to your program nor do you have to GPL your program. If a GPL library can reasonably be expected to be installed on someone's machine, you don't have to GPL your code, I think. Because it's a system library. So you don't have to GPL your code that uses the WinAPI and winelib to compile, since you can reasonably expect the end-user to have winelib. I think. I could be wrong.
Remember, I'm not a lawyer, and the answers to all of your questions can be found at the source [gnu.org].
Re:I find SageTV to be even better (Score:1, Informative)
How did parent get to informative!! (Score:4, Informative)
You are somewhat close but if you don't know what you are taling about and are not willing to READ the GPL, stop posting "I thoughts". They can EITHER
1) Provide the source with the binaries to everyone they give the binary to ("customers") and not place restrictions on who they give it to.
or
2) They can provide a written offer to those that they give the binary to to get access to the source for a "reasonable" copying fee. This is where the third party stuff starts coming in because now third parties can use this written offer to request and get the source from the vendor
The relevant section of the GPL says
Re:They posted to the Myth list today... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I find SageTV to be even better (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I find SageTV to be even better (Score:2, Informative)
Re:looking (Score:4, Informative)
3b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange
but they seem to be using option 3a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange
Re:Speaking of MythTV... (Score:3, Informative)
They are working on it: Zap2it Labs [zap2it.com]. I don't know if MythTV can currently import the data, but from what I've heard the quality of the information they provide over the normal screen-scraping process is much better so they're working on updating mythfilldatabase to support it. I would imagine this would get rid of the requirement for the hokey xmltv stuff which 99% of the time is the reason MythTV breaks mid-release. i.e. Zap2it changes their website one character, xmltv needs to release an entirely new version, MythTV doesn't work right with it so they need a new version, etc. It's a pain in the ass. If we could get the xml stream right from Zap2it in a non-changing format then everyone is happy. I'd gladly pay $5/month for guide data directly from Zap2it provided it was a single fee and not "per-box" or some other stupid licensing.
By the way, for what it's worth, my MythTV 0.14 setup has been the most stable I've ever had. Dual PVR-250 tuners in a dedicated backend system running Debian Sid with 600 gigs of space (4x200GB drives raid-5). The frontend is a Via Epia M10000 Nehemiah box running Minimyth (boots via PXE over the network from a TFTP server so it's entirely diskless and potentially silent, although the Nehemiah board has a CPU fan, others don't. Plug the hardware MPEG-2 decoding on the board works really well now with the latest Minimyth and the open source drivers for the chipset. It's a fun project if you're looking for another reason to get back into playing with Linux other than setting up yet-another Samba or Apache server. If you are squeamish about messing with Linux though, do everyone a favor and stick with your lame TiVo. :-)
A MythTV user writes.... (Score:2, Informative)
Over the past couple of months I've been putting together a MythTV system at home. My overall impression is that it's a fantastic piece of software, that's getting better by the week
My hardware cost (in the UK) was around 600GBP, including:
semi-posh case from Coolermaster that looks good under the telly
AMD Athlon XP2200 based system
160gig hdd
Hauppauge PVR350 MPEG2 encoder/decoder
which makes this article's product seem very competitive, really (at, what, ~500GBP?). Especially considering the fact that mine took days and days of configuration (and I'd humbly consider myself to be a GNU/Linux pro) to get it 'just right', and some things still don't work properly (e.g. DVD menus).
As for the advert skipping thing... I don't actually use it. I have my Myth's remote control configured with a button that skips forward by one minute, and another that skips backwards by 10 seconds. This means I get to an ad break, skip, skip, skip, possibly skip backwards a couple of times then back to CSI :-)
I think we should welcome the incorporation of maturing OSS projects such as this into commercial products. There will surely be positive feedback to the community in the way of features and bugfixes. Don't give them hassle over the lack of ad-skipping - it surprises me just how much people forget how much of the excellent Internet and TV programming is brought to us through this revenue stream and we take it for granted.
Oh, yeah, there's some crap programming too, but that's why I have a digital video recorder to avoid it all :-p
Re:Speaking of MythTV... (Score:3, Informative)
Yep, I've seen the discussions about that - doesn't help those of us in the UK though.
I contacted the RadioTimes (where the current UK grabber gets the listings) - they provide a subscription listings-on-your-pda service, but say they are not interested in providing the listings in XML format (I wonder what format the PDA listings come in, although I suspect they're not as detailed). The RadioTimes listings are far from exceptional quality though - lack of descriptions and subtitles on some minor channels and some of the smaller channels have completely the wrong times listed every week.
By the way, for what it's worth, my MythTV 0.14 setup has been the most stable I've ever had.
I'm running a 3-week old CVS version ATM, which has a much better (IMHO) recording scheduler algorithm than 0.14. I need to upgrade it this weekend but generally it's very good.
I'm using a BT878 card on an Athlon XP 1900+ and just have one minor issue - sometimes the colours during recording get shifted slightly towards green. Seems to be related to high CPU load and dropped interrupts, but it's not actually a MythTV problem, it's a problem with the BTTV driver.
If you are squeamish about messing with Linux though, do everyone a favor and stick with your lame TiVo.
I couldn't agree more - when I was originally looking for a PVR I thought about getting Tivo or Sky Plus and didn't because:
- Tivo aren't available as new in the UK anymore
- Sky Plus had some reasonably serious bugs in the recordings sheduler which had been an ongoing problem for years and Sky showed no sign of fixing them.
- If I want a new feature on Myth then I can implement it myself
- If there's a bug in Myth I can fix it myself instead of waiting for someone to spend years doing it
- I got to try it out for free by using one of my existing computers before splashing out on dedicated hardware
And now I'm using it, I realise the project is also developing very rapidly, which is really good, and even more amazing is that 99% of the time the CVS versions are almost as good as the release versions
(I've been using Myth since I read about it on Slashdot last summer, and love it).
One day everyone will be watching TV like this - I never watch live TV anymore, Myth knows what I like and records it automagically. When I want to watch TV I just sit down and choose something to watch from the 120 hours of assorted programs that are sitting on the box at any time without caring when the show was actually scheduled,
I tried this... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:GPL Compliance (Score:2, Informative)
I'm confused. The GPL states that you can distribute binary versions of GPLed code provided that you "a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code..." That sounds like exactly what they're doing. Why the "technically speaking" or the "actually qualifies"? It is flat-out full-on compliance.
In fact, all they ACTUALLY have to do is slip a piece of paper into the box that tells people to write to them and they'll have the source code sent to them on a disc, for a nominal fee. That would also be full-on flat-out compliance.
Doug
Re:GPL Compliance (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, the posts in this article are about 50% depressing. Starting with the jackass submitter. "Any license issues?" Not if they supply the source! Are they? Yes? Then what's the problem?
The problem is people who have heard of the GPL, understand it means some stuff about giving away source code, but have never actually read the damn thing.
Re:The only thing I see (Score:2, Informative)
2) It's not like the Unwashed Slashdottian Hordes hunted down the manufacturer and mounted him on a pike outside the castle wall. Collectively, they surfed the site, discovered that the source was included, and said, "okay, we're cool."
3) Given the relative frequency of commercial misappropriation of GPL'ed software, the question of "does this use comply with the GPL?" is one that needed asking.
4) How a "slahsdot is teh BIAS" post gets modded up as insightful is beyond me. It's like pointing out that the editors are carbon-based lifeforms. We know they have their biases, and we likes it that ways.
5) I like making numbered lists.
The only thing that I would criticize is that Timothy could have investigated the licensing issues before posting the story. But with all the folks here desperate to get modded up for a bit of legwork, it's not a huge deal.
Re:Atomic (Score:2, Informative)
Last issue I bought: full 3CD set of Fedora Core 1. The one before that, Red Hat 9. In a lovely DVD case, as well.
Damn fine mag too.
Re:I'd buy this *if*... (Score:3, Informative)
So case wise - it has to look exactly like a hifi component. Check out Ahanix, they make some amazingly sexy aluminium cases - 19" wide, various heights, with hifi style power buttons, barrel feet, centre mounted optical drives, etc. Personally I'm going for the dvine5 which looks just like a full size DVD player, including a tinted panel to hide a remote receiver and vfd display behind. Cost is like $220 for the base case, plus $140 for the bonus pack which includes silent PSU, VFD, IR remote control.
Next you need some guts - forget mini itx, as you and many others have discovered, the horse power just isn't there. Plus, this case takes an ATX board so the small size is not important. You can get a decent board and processor for not much more than a epia anyway. I'm going for an nvidia nforce2 board, with the integrated graphics and sound. This gives me VGA out for my plasma and spdif out for the sound. Make sure you get a board with no northbridge fan - these do exist. So far - no noise. For the processor I'm using an old Athlon 1.2 I have lying around - should be good enough to start off with. Then for cooling use a Zalman. I have one cooling my Athlon XP 3000+ right now and it's totally inaudible unless the case is open and I put my ear next to it. Under 20dbA running in quiet mode. Throw in a quiet disc like a seagate, and IMHO you've got a box which is much more powerful than a Tivo, and should be as quiet if not quieter.
If you really demand SILENT - then check out HushPC - they make machines which look drop dead amazingly sexy, fit in a hifi rack, can be powered by either Epia or P4, and are truly silent, with totally passive cooling. These are custom designed cases & cooling solutions though, so expect to pay a lot, plus the cases are quite small so expandability is limited.