US Expands Fingerprint and Mugshot Program for Visitors 1073
prakslash writes "The US State Department has expanded its anti-terrorist fingerprinting program to include visitors from close US allies such as the UK, Australia, France, Germany and Japan. Everytime a visitor enters or leaves the US, they will have to get their mugshot and fingerprints taken - something that used to be mainly limited to your local police precinct. More news can be found here and here. In addition to the huge costs involved, one has to wonder if this will affect tourism to this country." Hmmm, a huge database of digital mugshots and digital fingerprints, which will be kept forever - hope we have enough RAM to search through it quickly and constantly.
Visit Canada (Score:2, Informative)
This can only hurt tourism coming into the states, so Canada will benefit.
To you Righteous EU Citizens (Score:2, Informative)
Re: A Fingerprint's Rights (Score:3, Informative)
Fingerprinting is an infrastructure already in place world wide throughout a number of professions, making it an easily shared medium across agencies (hello?) Plus the technology has been tweaked over the last few years to provide a high degree of success in software matching.
I never said it was the end all be all of security, but it is another layer that will undoubtably help in the long run.
Re:Spain (Score:5, Informative)
All it does is get my identity into a database for a foreign country to use against me. And since I'm not a citizen, I have no right to see how the information is being used or whether it's accurate.
I personally think Canada's security is OK. We'll arrest you when we have the evidence, as we recently did in Ottawa (where I live), not before.
BTW, if you think taking pictures and finger prints is going to increase security, you are living in a dream world. Try reading any of the last 5 or 10 Cryptograms [schneier.com]and let Bruce Schneier tell you why it will likely make us less secure.
It an unescesary invasion of my privacy. Having my fingerprints will not help the US deter or track terrorists.
First hand experience (Score:3, Informative)
On my way off the exit ramp, sure enough, there were four very large policemen there inspecting everyone's passports. I heard one say to another "is this the name?" and the other reply "no, it's the last name we need to check." Obviously they suspected someone on some flight from the region of asia my flight came through (another flight connected to mine).
Anyway getting to the point, there were a lot of grumbles about the inconvenience and people worrying about whether it would delay them getting to their next connecting flight. Now, imagine not only just checking the passport, but actually getting fingerprinted and photographed - how much more time would that take? And are they going to use the digital fingerprinters, or old fashioned ink? Then everyone has to wash their hands after?
This is a great way to kill off tourism here. I just love my country sometimes.
Re:This really sucks (Score:2, Informative)
Japanese alien registration cards used to carry a single fingerprint from your index finger, but that requirement's been lifted now.
Funny how the 'land of the free' is the one intent on ignoring the human rights of foreign visitors, while a country long known for its insularity is getting rid of invasive procedurs, isn't it?
Clarification (Score:1, Informative)
Re:what do you want? (Score:3, Informative)
Re: A Fingerprint's Rights (Score:5, Informative)
If our government didn't make mistakes and only did this stuff to terrorists maybe you could rationalize it. Fact is they are making mistakes and hurting innocent people.
Hundreds, if not thousands, of people have been wrongfully held since 9/11.
An Egyptian student was staying at a hotel near ground zero on 9/11. A security guard at the hotel framed him, because he was Arab, and accused him of having a radio that could monitor airline frequencies that was found in the hotel. The FBI managed to coerce a confession out of him by threatening to turn his brother over to Egyptian authorties, just like the Syrian case. He admitted it was his radio to protect his family which led to him being a suspected part of the plot. After the confession hit the news the private pilot that actually owned the radio came forward. The FBI's threats were so good they made him confess to something he didn't do.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/12/13/wtc.pilot.rad
Your missing a basic point. As soon as they started doing it there is nothing stopping them from continuing to do it and doing it more and worse. You really don't want to visit a country, where you can be arrested and held without charges and denied access to your embassy. It is the most basic travelers right. Unfortunately
Jose Padilla, a U.S. citizen, has been held without access to a lawyer, his family or any judicial review for a couple years now. He may be guilty of associating with terrorists. If he's guilty of something try him and prove it. Holding him forever without proving anything is simply not what a country based on law does.
http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney01032004.htm
Capt. James Yee, an Islamic Chaplain at Guantanami, was in a military brig in isolation for more than 2 months facing a death penalty charge for espionage. The military destroyed his life and his marriage. Last week they back handedly admitted he wasn't guilty of anything but they aren't going to apologize for destroying his life. During the course of the trial the military's lawyers inadvertently divulged classified documents to the defense team. The military in fact was guilty of what they were accusing Yee of doing. None of the docs he had in his possession were, rightly or wrongly, marked as classified.
http://www.refuseandresist.org/detentions/art.p
Several British citizens held at Guantanamo were likewise just released. Only thing they were guilty of was being in Afghanistan when the war started so they got a couple years in relatively brutal solitary confinement and a series of beatings.
Where the aid goes) (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Alright, this isn't even funny. (Score:5, Informative)
And they also decided to double the number of troops they have in Afghanistan. You remember that one? The country the terrorist actually came from?
-John
Fingerprints are not as infallible as people think (Score:4, Informative)
Fingerprint link [newscientist.com]
What's the bet that the first Al-Queda terrorist arrested through matching fingerprints turns out to be an 80 year old nun from Canada?
Re:You're obviously sarcastic... (Score:4, Informative)
Freedom of speech (Score:5, Informative)
Hey, I thought you guys had freedom of speech? If so, why is it that virtually no USA based media is reporting that an FBI insider, Sibel Edmonds [google.co.uk], has said that the Bush administration knew about the 911 attacks before they happened. Apparently your government has used a law to stop this story in the press. [independent.co.uk]
Freedom of speech indeed!
Re:Alright, this isn't even funny. (Score:2, Informative)
We foreigners are lucky because we live abroad. If you think you've got civil liberties over there, perhaps you should read up on the civil liberties you (allegedly) had a hundred years ago.
You've got nothing.
Try Saudi-Arabia (Score:1, Informative)
This book is also good (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/08736498
Data Protection Act (Score:3, Informative)
The DPA basically states that I can ask any public or private institution for any information they have on me, and they have to give it. With exceptions, if I recall, relating to police investigation and national security.
The DPA also limits what people can do with that information. No passing it on to third parties without permission. No processing the information if I don't want them to. Interesting little things like that.
The UK does have a lot of cameras, but there are also a lot of safeguards. Even if the US had those safeguards, I'm not a US citizen, so I couldn't require them to do anything about it.
Re:Freedom of speech (Score:5, Informative)
She effectively did. She said that they had information that there were planned attacks with aeroplanes against skyscrapers in the short term before September 11.
She was brought in AFTER 9/11 to clear a backlog of untranslated documents
True. Two days after.
But these were UNTRANSLATED DOCUMENTS, so nobody knew what information they contained.
But that's not what she is saying. She is saying that she saw documentation that showed that they knew, prior to 9/11, that there might be such an attack. And she said that in her testomony she was quite clear about which documents she was referring to, and it would be easy to confirm what she was saying.
I think the CIA/NSA/FBI frowns on translators revealing information
Yep, I can understand that. However, if what she is saying is true, this is a huge news story and definately "in the public interest".
She has testified before the commission investigating intelligence failures before 9/11, in private. But that wasn't good enough for her, so she went to the UK media.
Yes, I expect because she thought there would be a cover-up. Remember, this information could be embarassing to both the Rublicans and the Demoncrats. Both parties might want it covered up.
I think if what she says is true then she did the right thing going public about it. However, no doubt she is now going to get smeared, because that's what happens when someone speaks out, at least in the USA and UK.
Re:This really sucks (Score:3, Informative)
And yes, the reccomended practice is that you use whatever passport is appropriate. If you're in Canada, and have a Canadian citizenship, they have dominion over you as a citizen, what do they care that you're also Syrian or Chinese or American or whatever (for example)?
Lea