Real Problems 481
Universal Nerd writes "Could Real be its own downfall? According to 'Find the Download in a Haystack', it could be. The difficulty folks have in reaching the free version of RealPlayer is forcing Minnesota Public Radio to look towards Windows Media Player as an alternative. I prefer good old MP3 or OGG streaming like the feeds offered at WCPE but I'm sure no 'serious' company would consider it because they don't have their digital rights preserved." See the CarTalk story from yesterday.
FP (Score:5, Funny)
Re:FP (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Real might be more appealing without the SPYWAR (Score:3, Funny)
Does that mean that there are 119,000 instances of people discussing Real Player eating their dogs?
Re:Your search - "Real Player ate my dog" - did no (Score:3, Informative)
Buffering.... (Score:2)
I have a dial-up and I don't like tying up my phone line for an hour or so to listen to a program that's not offered in my area (Science Friday) or to listen to a show I missed.
Aside from the occasional show I listen to, Broadband still isn't worth it for me - just in case any of you were to sugge
Re:Buffering.... (Score:3, Informative)
Get Streambox Ripper
(you'll find both on P2P networks, although Real successfully sued to have both products crippled or killed)
Download and convert to your favorite format
Don't forget to share!
Re:Buffering.... (Score:3, Informative)
Good... down with Real (Score:5, Insightful)
The message here for Real should be really simple. Make your player as easy to get as possible. Require two clicks to download. Content is King. Annoying software is not. Give me a real reason to register. Look at how sites like slashdot and fileplanet work.
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:2, Informative)
Eric in Seattle
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:2, Interesting)
What generic format is cross platform friendly other than Real? Bear in mind that complete noobs have to be able to install it.
Real, WMP, QuickTime and Macs (Score:4, Informative)
WMP for Mac's streaming ability works fine. But this player, unlike the one built-in with Windows, only plays WMA streams and files, and lacks the iTunes-ish MP3 player features.
Of course, aside from the free RealPlayer (which, if you look at this link on a Mac browser that IDs itself as a Mac browser [real.com] shows a simple link in the right corner to the free RealPlayer), there is QuickTime, which also plays streams well, but there are few sites that use it (one is Cartoon Network's Star Wars: Clone Wars [cartoonnetwork.com] site).
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:3, Interesting)
Adobe Reader development is subsidized by sales of Adobe Acrobat software. RealPlayer seems to be subsidized by advertising sales. What business model would you suggest?
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:2)
Just a thought.
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:5, Interesting)
Windows? Nien, danke.
Open Format with Open Tools and I'll be there.
Stream it with multicast? Great, I'll be all over it.
Sell my information to anyone with a quarter? Thanks Real, but no.
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:3, Insightful)
Stream it with multicast? Great, I'll be all over it.
Multicast? Are you sure? For this to be advantageous, basically everyone has to watch the stream at the same time. To stream to different users at different times (which is usually the case) then you're basically talking about unicast again, which is the current model.
Furthermore, a lot of network hardware doesn't handle multicast well. For example, the majority of network switches treat IP Multicast packets as broadcast, because they don't do IGMP sno
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:3, Informative)
For live broadcast audio, that's exactly what you want.
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:3, Insightful)
everyone has to watch the stream at the same time
Or you can kick off a new stream every MINUTE and have 60 streams leaving your place (presuming there are listeners for each stream - if not, you only have $NumberListeners streams going out).
So 60 streams of something popular where unicast would create, say, 1000 streams (one per user). Or more.
a lot of network hardware doesn't handle multicast well
Then it's broken. I don't have lots of sympathy for
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:4, Informative)
BTW: Disabling the updates is easy as going into the preference, changing to update manually and disable update notification on startup.
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:4, Insightful)
What you say is true, although we could quibble and say that by phoning home, the user's IP address and the fact he is using the software is transmitted, data that might be used against him if the software were, for instance, limited shareware or "box ware" (that is, not distributed over the 'net, but in a box).
Still, sure, phoning home to check for updates probably is innocuous. But how does a user really know what's being transmitted when the software phones home (without attaching a packet sniffer)?
It is just because any sort of phoning home can be mis-construed that I left it out of my latest freeware application. I very much wanted to use phoning home to get a idea of how much my software was being used, and I could have provided users with additional functionality via phoning home.
But I decided that the possibility of mis-perception -- especially in the case of this particular piece of software, which required, in order to be useful at all, the user to enter his password for a service not affiliated with me, which my software would pass on to that service --made it unfriendly to include phoning home.
Unfriendly, because it would arouse in some minority of users fears that my software was doing untoward things, and would induce some portion of those to not use my software at all -- and I didn't want to lock anyone out, even those with merely speculative fears.
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:5, Informative)
1. Big, orange "Download RealPlayer" button
2. Little blue text link in the lower right
Voila!
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:3, Interesting)
They got the message on being an annoying and intrusive player too. RealPlayer 10, even the free version, has no ad popups, doesn't sit in your system tray, and spyware detectors say it's clean. From my initial glance over the preferences, all the "phone home" options are off by default too.
I had to download it because of trouble I was having with Real Alternative and streaming settin
Meh. (Score:3, Insightful)
But enough with them - Real has always been the worst offender here. And I'm not suggesting they're bad people, just stupid.
Real could have been a contender, but the
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:4, Informative)
Click on the "Download RealPlayer" image
Click on "Download Free RealPlayer" link on the right
The download starts right up without asking for any other info
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:2)
Man they must have some people reading slashdot at this moment, because I went to count up the number of clicks it actually takes, and it was exactly 2 clicks to get the download started.
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:5, Informative)
Linky: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/audiohelp.shtml?help [bbc.co.uk]
You get an ad-free, nag-free, spyware-free version of Real Player, thanks to the good old BBC and their unique deal with Real.
Because the BBC is publicly funded, it couldn't justify using a third-party app that pesters BBC licence fee payers for more money - so they threatened to pull out of the Real deal (pardon the pun) if real didn't offer a nag-free version of the player.
Re:Good... down with Real (Score:5, Informative)
Read this. [jogin.com]
Memo's from people that use to work at Real or still work there. In one of them, she says the bbc player is exactly the same as the other one.
Real alternative (Score:5, Informative)
It plays Real files, and if you download the K-Lite Mega Codec Pack, everything else too (Quicktime, Divx, Ogg, etc.).
It also includes Media Player Classic, which is a very nice player that picks up where Windows Media Player 6 left off.
It was the best of advice, and the worst of advice (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It was the best of advice, and the worst of adv (Score:4, Informative)
It's a very convenient way to get the most used codecs and even some of the more obscure ones.
OpenSource and Open Standards are the way to go (Score:2)
Re:OpenSource and Open Standards are the way to go (Score:2)
I believe Real makes money from a superior streaming audio server software-suite.. The player is just milking the cow.
But, if people are demanding free content without paying for a player, (how many people actually pay for it), they are going to look for free alternatives.
A lot of people pay for it. They use it, and they are too stuck in the Microsoft-mantra that software costs money that
Rights preserved? (Score:5, Insightful)
OGG/MP3 do not remove your rights. Lets me clear.
That people copy (and it's easy with Real and WMP - play it out through line out and record it in whatever you wish) mp3/ogg does not affect "their rights"
Well... What can you do. (Score:2)
Is Real their own problem? (Score:5, Insightful)
I think not being able to find the download link was the best part about it.
Re:Is Real their own problem? (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah yeah yeah. Real sucked. We've all heard it, and we all know it.
What is more interesting is the recent drive to improve their image by making their software less obnoxious. Has it worked? Have they improved. If so, isn't it better to congratulate them and talk them up a bit, thereby encouraging further moves towards being reputable instead of still treating them like a leper not much better than some sneaky ad-ware merchant (however deserved in the past).
Re:Is Real their own problem? (Score:5, Informative)
A senior engineer from Real explains how to get RealPlayer 10 to act nicely on one's system. I followed the instructions, and it works quite nicely. However, if one has Real Alternative installed previously, one has to remove it completely using instructions found further down the page.
Re:Is Real their own problem? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:For everything MS does wrong.... (Score:3, Interesting)
If Real had $45 billion in cash reserves and could bundle their player on almost every PC sold in the world, do you think they'd work so hard to be annoyware? Or do they do it because Microsoft has taken away almost every other opportunity for Real to make money from their products?
The smart response to this is "Real should make a sleek clean player and make money on the server software." Right. Look where t
I'm no Real Player fan... (Score:4, Informative)
I believe that it has been more complicated in the past, but it's not particularly difficult (unlike searching Slashdot for a particular story).
The most pertinent point is the Real-NPR deal. If the clickthrough for public radio listeners is making a free download difficult, then NPR has a legitimate complaint. Their users want a convenient and inexpensive way to access content. If Real can't accomodate, then screw them.
Correct (Score:4, Interesting)
The hiding of the free player
The non-standard installer
The annoying "messages" that cannot be turned off
are all reasons why people don't use their product any more. If they woke up and smelled the coffee, they could easily win back market shares.
Re:Correct (Score:2)
It prompts to ask if you want these messages at install time now. The only messages it will then do are notices about software updates. You can go into the preferences and turn off the software update notifications and then (for Windows at least), it doesn't even run its scheduler task anymore, so it's absolutely not running until you launch it.
It also doesn't have t
Incidentally... (Score:2)
We do also have Quicktime and WindowsMedia. Available here [wbur.org]. And we're the ones that originate Car Talk [cartalk.org], among others.
-T
Re:Incidentally... (Score:2)
-T
Audio streams are one thing... (Score:4, Informative)
In the other hand, Real could go open-source with all their client software and provide their existing infrastructure to host some web TV and radio stations, for a fee. This could encourage many people to accept RealMedia as a standard, seriously extending Real's market share, while not killing their profit.
Neither of them are real good (Score:2)
MP4 (via quicktime) (Score:3, Interesting)
Yuck. (Score:2)
Despite this, I don't think Real is going anywhere for a while... channels like 'em too much.
I use Real Alternative [betanews.com] with media player classic now. So much better.
idiotic that mp3 is not used... (Score:3, Insightful)
and somepne please explain to me the justification of "preserving digital rights" on a freely downloaded mp3??? that's like a sales flyer maker getting pissed that someone is taking the flyer he made for a special sale and bitching that someone made 100 copies of his sales flyer and gave them to other people... What? you dont want free redistribution and promotion??? that is plain silly..
shoutcast works great, and is damned cheap to host/ licensing fees....
How about shoutcast? (Score:2)
DRM shouldn't matter for Public Radio! (Score:3, Insightful)
This argument is rubbish. Anything you can stream you can record (using Audacity or similar) and save; for that matter, anything broadcast over the airwaves you can record.
Ultimately any form of broadcast/webcast can be converted to mp3/ogg with very little work. NPR should do everyone a service (that's why they're around, to do a public service) and just give us the mp3's/oggs.
I don't see a problem. (Score:5, Informative)
I went to the website and glanced around for about 5 seconds, then clicked the link that said download. The next page was slightly confusing for about three seconds, before i saw the segment that said 'download free version'. Clicked that, then started my download.
No problem for me.
You Will (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh yeah, then go "uninstall" it. That will appear to remove it. Then later you'll get Message Center popups.
Then go remove any reference to Real from HLMS\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run. You'll still periodically see crap.
Re:I don't see a problem. (Score:3, Interesting)
1. You are a slashdot reader, not a typical user.
2. You know that there is a free version of the player, and were specfically looking for it.
All I know is that my 73 year old dad almost whipped out his credit card to watch a video someone sent him. Thankfully he called me first about it. Fuck Real.
LS
Their business model doesn't allow it (Score:2)
It's a kind of blackmail - "we are going to spam you until you buy from us" or "we are going to make it hard for you to download/use the free version - so you had better buy from us."
I'm not saying it's ok. Like everything else nowadays "it's just business".
Real's Collapse is Inevitable... (Score:2)
version 10 for OS X? (Score:2, Interesting)
However, to the best of my ability to figure it out, the new, less-obnoxious Real player must not have been ported to OS X yet. The free player I downloaded was still as obnoxi
Re:version 10 for OS X? (Score:3, Insightful)
The Mac version is positively polite IMHO and lacks all the message centre horror.
Re:version 10 for OS X? (Score:4, Insightful)
QTSS is the only one that's free TO stream. And it's also available as open source (Darwin Streaming Server). And it broadcasts standard MPEG-4, so you can watch it in any MPEG-4 compliant player (e.g. Linux), genius. By far the most open and standard format.
Absolutely. (Score:3, Insightful)
Their product was good up to and including RealPlayer G2. But now it sucks. And their product sucking has nothing to do with Microsoft. It has to do with being managed by people who do not understand what the users want.
Not just that... (Score:5, Insightful)
The only reason I still suffer with RealPlayer in any form is MIT's OpenCourseware. The RealPlayer client has always been a PITA and Real has always been it's own worst enemy. They had more than half a decade of opportunity. Microsoft's Media Player has done nothing exceptional; just suck a lot less.
The whole streaming audio/video field's gone crazy (Score:4, Insightful)
And then, in the virtually ignored fourth corner, we have the stuff that isn't totally assraped by big (or not so big, in Real's case) corporations. MP3. Ogg. Freaking gzipped
No, we have two choices: (1) Run Windows and/or Mac OS X and download some spyware-riddled bloatware from Apple, Real (ugh) or Microsoft (DOUBLE ugh), or (2) run any other OS and use a probably-illegal tool like MPlayer. (Oh, MPlayer isn't illegal, you say? Who the hell are you kidding? At the first nastygram from any big patent-wielding corporation, MPlayer's going bye-bye. As far as I'm concerned, thanks to our pal the DMCA, it's just another DeCSS waiting to happen.)
This is FREAKING RIDICULOUS. Who benefits from any of this? It doesn't even seem as if MS and Apple benefit. Certainly, the "consumer" slash "end-user" slash "listener" doesn't.
This is fucking asinine. I am getting truly disgusted by all of this ridiculous pushing of proprietary standards. SCREW THIS. What will happen in 20 years when someone needs to open a
Audiovisual works are our cultural legacy. And we're blindly allowing corporations to seal up the standards used to encode these works to digital form. What the fuck is our problem? "Consumer groups" and publications like Consumer Reports should be screaming for open standards... but they don't even know or care what the problem is... Nor will they until around 2010 or so, when they try to play their old files and find that they can't...
Imagine if Gutenberg's printing press was available only on license from Gutenberg Ltd., and that everything it printed used a special ink completely invisible unless you wear the patented Gutenberg Glasses(R), available for a MERE sum of 10 shillings. Think that sounds ridiculous? We're doing the very same thing today. Eventually, "dead tree" media will die, and the media used to replace it will be completely corporate-controlled, proprietary, and
MOD PARENT UP! (Score:2)
Re:The whole streaming audio/video field's gone cr (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because the US legal system is owned by big corporations doesn't mean the rest of the planet is in the same mess as the US. I see no credible threat to my use of mplayer. I don't live in the US and I didn't download it from the US and for that matter, it wasn't developed in the US.
The rest of your comments seemed sensible.
Re:The whole streaming audio/video field's gone cr (Score:5, Informative)
Um, you do know that Mplayer is made by a merry band of coders from Hungary, don't you? They have a great deal less regard for US copyright concerns than Norway.
I share some of your concerns but I don't think this is one we really need to worry about. In fact if by some perversion of nature, law and justice F/OSS were to be banned in this country it would move to places like Hungary and Taiwan, and flourish there. And yes, it would make criminals out of a lot of us.
Real Vs. Microsoft (Score:2)
I for one hate Real with a passion. I refuse to visit sites that have Real content. I'd rather deprive myself of watching it than sit through the pain of their terrible player.
If there was a larger following providing content you could view in winamp, that would be my ideal, but for the time being, I'll use WMP.
(Note: I realize I forgot to include the obligatory joke reference... I for one welcome our new video streaming overlords.)
Shoutcast (Score:2)
Perhaps... (Score:2)
But, MPR has their own direct link to the RealPlayer download page (much like they gave cartalk.com earlier) http://www.real.com/freeplayer/?rppr=npr. It's partially their fault for not putting this out there better.
Threads Always Run the Same Way (Score:2)
Although I understand the BBC had strong reasons to twist Real's arm in negotiations, I don't understand why MPR cannot wrangle something along the lines of BBC's relation to Real [bbc.co.uk]?
Oh, wait. MPR pretty much does ...
MPR Homepage [publicradio.org] > How To Listen [publicradio.org] > You can manually download the newest version here [real.com].
Am I missing something?
(Real seems to provoke the same thread topics on /. regardless of story context, it seems. This post is no different.)
Is the wording legal? (Score:2)
Now, IANAAL (I am not an advertising lawyer) but I AM in advertising, and that claim seems somewhat dubious, and I'd love to see how they back it up. I know its nitpicking, but I can spare the attention for a company I hate so much, so if anybody can shed some light it would be apprec
Shout louder, SHOUT LOUDER, **SHOUT LOUDER** (Score:5, Insightful)
When my son was three years old, he used to act the same way. If you didn't pay attention to him, he thought the answer was to yell. Or pester. Or throw a tantrum.
My three-year-old was wrong.
Could be Worse... (Score:3, Funny)
I don't get it (Score:2)
So why the sudden rash of Real Player articles? Is it because of some recent change, or is it just because some
Could it possibly be that Real actually *wants* marketshare, and has learned that pissing all over their user base is not the best way to do it?
They ha
Since before the dot-boom... (Score:2)
Realplayer is annoying! (Score:2, Interesting)
We used to have a Apache proxy server running on campus that allows authenticated off-campus users access to on-campus electronic resources. When users have their proxy server settings set in their browser (IE) to point at our proxy server, installing Realplayer will take these settings and use it for itself. From looking at the Apache log, it
Digital Rights Management Management... (Score:5, Interesting)
Do a Google search for "Net Transport". Only runs on Windows, AFAIK, but it allows you to download almost all MMS (WM) and RTSP (Real) streams. Not exactly easy to use (unless you use MSIE, in which case it integrates seamlessly - But personally, I'd rather suffer through it's awkward interface than use MSIE), but it works.
Also, you might want to look into Real Alternative and QuickTime Alternative. These don't always work, but when they do, you get to play the content through WMP classic (6.something), which doesn't disable the "save" option.
Finally, for those difficult newer QuickTime streams, set your TMP and TEMP environment variables to a network share on a Linux box - Although Windows will lock the files so you can't copy them, Linux won't honor that lock (meaning, from a shell on the Linux box, you can just watch as the file appears, wait for it to finish, then copy it to "blah.mov" to keep a copy.
And, AFAIK, none of these violate the DMCA. Simply by virtue of having the ability to play such files over the net, you already have "access" to them. This just enhances the flexibility of what you do with that access.
Okay, I've shared my Tips of the Day... Now, anyone know a way to save RealOne streams? I have yet to find a way to do so...
My favorite quote... (Score:3, Funny)
"Jeff Chasen, general manager of desktop players for RealNetworks, said the company has made "great strides" in redesigning the download page to make it easy for people to find what they want right away.
"We're working on improving that page and working to get people what they want as much as possible," he said. "It's tricky. We have to offer both somehow."
Here's how you do both, Jeff. Clearly label the free player. Clearly label the one that costs money. Let the user choose which one he wants.
Do people want to register with Real? NO! (Score:5, Funny)
no@no.no already has an account.
nono@no.no already has an account.
nonono@no.no already has an account.
nononono@no.no already has an account.
no@no.no.no already has an account.
nono@no.no.no already has an account.
nonono@no.no.no already has an account.
nononono@no.no.no already has an account.
no.no@no.no already has an account.
no.no.no@no.no already has an account.
Re:Do people want to register with Real? NO! (Score:5, Informative)
Not flame (Score:5, Insightful)
Most folks don't read web pages anymore. They look at the bright and shiny widget graphics and click away, click click click until they are "Somewhere They Don't Want to Be" TM or can't figure out where they missed the boat. As it sits now, hit up real.com and you are literally two clicks away from downloading the free player. I think I installed it a few days ago before this news item hit, and believe it was three or four, but still no big deal. Now, had I not read the links I was clicking, or clicked blazing MEDIA PLAYER graphics that were on display I'm sure I would have gone down a more difficult path, and cause me many more clicks to get the free one.
Remember, it's Real's right to sell their premium player. We don't have to like it, and we don't have to buy it. Frankly, I'm surprised they even still offer a free version. They can set their site up however they want to encourage downloaders to buy the premium player as opposed to the freebie. I've visited sites that offer free applications and have done a much better job of hiding the goodies behind the curtain than real.com.
And to say they shouldn't sell their application at all and just subsidize it's expense off the greenbacks of the server side applications is just crazy. Even the free player is more than a simple "viewer" that other companies give away (Adobe, Crystal Reports, Microsoft). It's an actual full blown application. The premium player also offers content that costs money.
Installation (Score:3, Interesting)
I just downloaded and installed the "free" player... Wouldn't be surprised if they recently changed their site to make it easier to download the free version.
The problem that I saw was that it tried to take over my machine:
1. It wanted to change my registry defaults so that real would be the player for any and all media that I use (.mp3,
2. It wanted to put icons everywhere (startup, taskbar, etc.)
3. It asks for a bunch of personal information (WTF? Why do I need to give them that so that I can play their files? Should be illegal.)
Any newbie would be too scared to not change all of their defaults, not put icons everywhere, and not give out their personal information. It doesn't matter if the "free" Real is now easier to install. The player takes advantage of the fact that most people don't understand that all of the above tasks are completely optional. The only free media player out there is MPlayer, and that's the one I'll be using from now on. Let me go and listen to my music in peace.
FM isn't "preserving their rights" either (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:FM isn't "preserving their rights" either (Score:3, Insightful)
Speak of the devil... (Score:3, Informative)
Contact Minnesota Public Radio (Score:5, Informative)
* It's pulbic radio, it's funded by taxpayers and supporters, so it's a public resource. All the content should be freely available using open standards
* Open standards like MP3 are supported by the most applications
* Open standards like MP3 are best supported across platforms
* Free software can be used to implement streaming
* They will support the good will of the technically astute in their audience, who are also a source of funding
* Any other good ideas? Here's the contact info, from their web site [publicradio.org]:
EMAIL
mail@mpr.org
TELEPHONE
General Inquiries: 651-290-1212 or 800-228-7123
An MPR Member/Listener Services associate will answer your call between 8:30 am and 5 pm CT Monday-Friday. Beyond those hours, you may leave a message and your call will be returned within two business days.
MPR Newsroom line: 651-290-1424
News releases may be faxed to the newsroom at 651-290-1295. News tips may be e-mailed to newsroom@mpr.org. E-mail addresses for individual reporters may be found on the newsroom look-up page.
Midmorning or Midday call-in shows: 651-227-6000 or 800-242-2828
We are not able to include emails to shows in progress. If you would like to leave comments for Midmorning, call 651-290-1171.
MAIL
MPR Member/Listener Services
45 East Seventh Street
Saint Paul, MN USA 55101
MEDIA INQUIRIES
Andrea Matthews, 651-290-1303 or amatthews@mpr.org
Suzanne Perry, 651-290-1276 or sperry@mpr.org
LS
Where is the download for a Sun Solaris version? (Score:3, Informative)
The last one I was able to find was 6.0.4.216 (Beta), on their "community supported" subsection, which I installed in May of 1999.
Darned thing doesn't support most of the stream casting sites these days, and even the workarounds that used to work (digging the URL out of the file droppings in
'Find the Download in a Haystack' eh? (Score:3, Insightful)
I couldn't find the Linux download in the hastack for Windows Media or Quciktime. Real: 1, MS, Apple: 0.
direct link (Score:3, Informative)
Re:well ... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Marketing Company (Score:2)
Anyone remember: Buffering.. buffering...
Bandwidth used to be extremely limiting, but recently broadband access has become increasingly prevalent.
Anyone remember 28.8Kbps?
Re:ehh? (Score:2)
You run a company. You know people need the link to d/l your software.
HOW HARD IS IT TO GRAB THE LINK [real.com] YOURSELF?
Seriously, my company had this problem a couple years back. They said, it's too hard to find the free browser. So I linked to the free broswer download page. It's was that freaking simple. Deep-linking is LEGAL, people.
Re:Time for something new? (Score:3, Interesting)
This is offtopic - but are you sure about that?
A quick google search yields many [about.com] sites [google.com] that report otherwise [asianartmall.com]...
Re:Time for something new? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Time for something new? (Score:2)
What are you smoking? Chopsticks have been used in Asia for thousands of years. Their 'invention' in American mining communities is completely false.
Re:Let's make it easy for Real (Score:3, Funny)
Premium = red text on purple icon on white background
Free = white text on white icon on white background