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Media Music

Real Problems 481

Universal Nerd writes "Could Real be its own downfall? According to 'Find the Download in a Haystack', it could be. The difficulty folks have in reaching the free version of RealPlayer is forcing Minnesota Public Radio to look towards Windows Media Player as an alternative. I prefer good old MP3 or OGG streaming like the feeds offered at WCPE but I'm sure no 'serious' company would consider it because they don't have their digital rights preserved." See the CarTalk story from yesterday.
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Real Problems

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  • Real alternative (Score:5, Informative)

    by Patik ( 584959 ) * <.cpatik. .at. .gmail.com.> on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:02PM (#8783863) Homepage Journal
    They should just put up a link to Real Alternative [hccnet.nl].

    It plays Real files, and if you download the K-Lite Mega Codec Pack, everything else too (Quicktime, Divx, Ogg, etc.).

    It also includes Media Player Classic, which is a very nice player that picks up where Windows Media Player 6 left off.

  • by Nebulo ( 29412 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:03PM (#8783881)
    From a Mac perspective, the RealOne player is pretty darn good. It's small, attractive, and doesn't annoy with meaningless popups and advertising. I'm thrilled that CarTalk is switching back - their Windows Media files wouldn't even play last week.

    Eric in Seattle
  • by indros13 ( 531405 ) * on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:06PM (#8783924) Homepage Journal
    ...but it only takes two clicks from their homepage to get the free player download started. Click "download" and then the bold, text link "Download free player."

    I believe that it has been more complicated in the past, but it's not particularly difficult (unlike searching Slashdot for a particular story).

    The most pertinent point is the Real-NPR deal. If the clickthrough for public radio listeners is making a free download difficult, then NPR has a legitimate complaint. Their users want a convenient and inexpensive way to access content. If Real can't accomodate, then screw them.

  • by Liselle ( 684663 ) * <slashdot@NoSPAm.liselle.net> on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:08PM (#8783953) Journal
    They got the message on the download, anyway. I can get an .exe for the free version only two clicks from the front page.

    1. Big, orange "Download RealPlayer" button
    2. Little blue text link in the lower right

    Voila!
  • Re:FP (Score:2, Informative)

    by no reason to be here ( 218628 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:09PM (#8783974) Homepage
    Parent isn't offtopic. It was making a joke about real player.
  • by SharpFang ( 651121 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:09PM (#8783981) Homepage Journal
    about video streaming, Real is about the best one can get. The quality is less than average, but it comes at ridiculously low amounts of bandwidth. A 1.5h show compressed to 100M, in quality that is still acceptable, full 15-min cartoons that fit in some 10M files, this is what I haven't seen elsewhere. I'd hate to see Real be gone.
    In the other hand, Real could go open-source with all their client software and provide their existing infrastructure to host some web TV and radio stations, for a fee. This could encourage many people to accept RealMedia as a standard, seriously extending Real's market share, while not killing their profit.
  • by arkham6 ( 24514 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:13PM (#8784046)
    After hearing all the bad things about downloading real player, I decided just now to start the download process of the free version to see how bad the website actualy was.

    I went to the website and glanced around for about 5 seconds, then clicked the link that said download. The next page was slightly confusing for about three seconds, before i saw the segment that said 'download free version'. Clicked that, then started my download.

    No problem for me.
  • by cdrudge ( 68377 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:23PM (#8784176) Homepage
    And that makes it spyware how exactly? Spyware captures personal information about you our your computer usage and transmits it back to a third party. Most software updates just query some type of a file to see what the current software version/build number is. If the two don't match, offer the person a chance to update. Nothing nefarious, but then again I don't wear a foil hat.

    BTW: Disabling the updates is easy as going into the preference, changing to update manually and disable update notification on startup.
  • by Thanatopsis ( 29786 ) <despain.brian@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:28PM (#8784217) Homepage
    Fortune Cookies. He's talking about fortune cookies. Fortune cookies are largely a Western invention. He's just confused.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:28PM (#8784225)
    Wrong.

    Chopsticks were developed about 5,000 years ago in China. It is likely that people cooked their food in large pots which retained heat well, and hasty eaters then broke twigs off trees to retrieve the food. By 400 BCE, a large population and dwindling resources forced people to conserve fuel. Food was chopped into small pieces so it could be cooked more rapidly, thus needing less fuel.

    The pieces of food were small enough that they negated the need for knives at the dinner table, and chopsticks became staple utensils. It is also thought that Confucius, a vegetarian, advised people not to use knives at the table because knives would remind them of the slaughterhouse. Chinese chopsticks, called kuai-zi (quick little fellows), are usually 9 to 10 inches long and rectangular with a blunt end. By 500 CE, chopstick use had spread from China to present-day Vietnam, Korea, and Japan. The chopsticks to the left, while Japanese, are rectangular in the Chinese style.

    In Japan, chopsticks were originally considered precious and were used exclusively for religious ceremonies. The earliest chopsticks used for eating looked like tweezers; they were made from one piece of bamboo that was joined at the top. By the 10th Century, chopsticks were being produced in two separate pieces.

    Japanese chopsticks differed in design from Chinese chopsticks in that they were rounded and came to a point; they were also shorter (7 inches long for females and 8 inches long for males).

    The Japanese usually made their chopsticks out of wood. To the lower right are chopsticks with a characteristic Japanese style. Starting in the 17th Century, they were the first to lacquer these wooden chopsticks, making them slippery but usable. The Japanese were also the first to create disposable wooden chopsticks (called wari-bashi) in 1878.

    Traditionally, chopsticks have been made from a variety of materials. Bamboo has been the most popular because it is inexpensive, readily available, easy to split, resistant to heat, and has no perceptible odor or taste. Cedar, sandalwood, teak, pine, and bone have also been used. The wealthy, however, often had chopsticks made from jade, gold, bronze, brass, agate, coral, ivory, and silver. In fact, during dynastic times it was thought that silver chopsticks would turn black if they came into contact with poisoned food. It is now known that silver has no reaction to arsenic or cyanide, but if rotten eggs, onion, or garlic are used, the hydrogen sulfide they release might cause these chopsticks to change color.
  • by lewp ( 95638 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:29PM (#8784237) Journal
    Hrm. I've got Windows Media Player 9 on my Mac. Free download from microsoft.com/mac. Of course, it's a piece of shit, but AFAIK it should be able to handle any Windows Media file you throw at it.
  • Re:Buffering.... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Bilestoad ( 60385 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:31PM (#8784269)
    Get Streambox VCR
    Get Streambox Ripper
    (you'll find both on P2P networks, although Real successfully sued to have both products crippled or killed)
    Download and convert to your favorite format
    Don't forget to share!
  • by MPolo ( 129811 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:33PM (#8784295)
    The Helix player (which is somehow subsidiary to Real) handles RealPlayer 10 files and is open source. Here [helixcommunity.org] is a link to their web page.
  • by hendridm ( 302246 ) * on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:33PM (#8784299) Homepage

    Linky: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/audiohelp.shtml?help [bbc.co.uk]

    You get an ad-free, nag-free, spyware-free version of Real Player, thanks to the good old BBC and their unique deal with Real.

    Because the BBC is publicly funded, it couldn't justify using a third-party app that pesters BBC licence fee payers for more money - so they threatened to pull out of the Real deal (pardon the pun) if real didn't offer a nag-free version of the player.

  • Re:Buffering.... (Score:2, Informative)

    by MisanthropicProgram ( 763655 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:34PM (#8784304)
    We got an interesting thread here ...Yes. What's wrong with that? I kick off the download at say 10:00pm -when I don't want any calls anyway and it finshes by 7:00am or 8:00am, again when I don't want any phone calls.
    Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that it would be easier for me to have a file locally playing instead of having to deal with the "BUFFERING" issue.
  • by Spencerian ( 465343 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:34PM (#8784307) Homepage Journal
    There is a Windows Media Player for Mac OS X and 9 [microsoft.com] that, like its RealPlayer for OS X counterpart, has few annoying "features' that appear in their Windows counterparts. Generally speaking, Mac users can use the streams from the major sites like NPR unless the streaming site has intentionally identified the Macintosh browser or player and refuses access, whether the stream is compatible or not.

    WMP for Mac's streaming ability works fine. But this player, unlike the one built-in with Windows, only plays WMA streams and files, and lacks the iTunes-ish MP3 player features.

    Of course, aside from the free RealPlayer (which, if you look at this link on a Mac browser that IDs itself as a Mac browser [real.com] shows a simple link in the right corner to the free RealPlayer), there is QuickTime, which also plays streams well, but there are few sites that use it (one is Cartoon Network's Star Wars: Clone Wars [cartoonnetwork.com] site).
  • by athakur999 ( 44340 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:36PM (#8784325) Journal
    I went to real.com.
    Click on the "Download RealPlayer" image
    Click on "Download Free RealPlayer" link on the right
    The download starts right up without asking for any other info

  • by chickenmonger ( 614989 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:38PM (#8784377) Journal
    http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=683 99& [doom9.org]

    A senior engineer from Real explains how to get RealPlayer 10 to act nicely on one's system. I followed the instructions, and it works quite nicely. However, if one has Real Alternative installed previously, one has to remove it completely using instructions found further down the page.

  • by Our Man In Redmond ( 63094 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:40PM (#8784398)
    At the first nastygram from any big patent-wielding corporation, MPlayer's going bye-bye. As far as I'm concerned, thanks to our pal the DMCA, it's just another DeCSS waiting to happen.

    Um, you do know that Mplayer is made by a merry band of coders from Hungary, don't you? They have a great deal less regard for US copyright concerns than Norway.

    I share some of your concerns but I don't think this is one we really need to worry about. In fact if by some perversion of nature, law and justice F/OSS were to be banned in this country it would move to places like Hungary and Taiwan, and flourish there. And yes, it would make criminals out of a lot of us.
  • by aflat362 ( 601039 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:40PM (#8784399) Homepage
    I refuse to install Real's player software on any of my computers for these reasons. It kind of sucks when I go to a site and Real Player is the only option for viewing their content. But I will not budge. Sometimes if I have time I send a letter to the webmaster requesting other formats (Like Quicktime) but usually I just get mad at Real and go about my business.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:42PM (#8784424)
    And what the heck did it do exactly? I've installed the k-lite mega codec pack on no less than 10 computers, and NEVER had a problem. In fact, I carry it on my USB keychain drive, just in case.

    It's a very convenient way to get the most used codecs and even some of the more obscure ones.
  • by rnd() ( 118781 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:45PM (#8784474) Homepage
    No kidding! Real is some of the most annoying software in existence, which is why I don't feel sorry for them losing to Microsoft. I occasionally install Real, but always grudgingly. I'd prefer nearly any other format (even Quicktime with its kludgy installer and tendency to hijack).
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:52PM (#8784598)
    I've got Windows Media Player 9 on my Mac. Free download from microsoft.com/mac. Of course, it's a piece of shit, but AFAIK it should be able to handle any Windows Media file you throw at it.

    Except for ones with DRM, of course.
  • by spacefight ( 577141 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:53PM (#8784607)
    You can always use the reserved (and therefore hopefully nullrouted) example.com domains as described in RFC 2606 [rfc-editor.org], eg info@example.com
  • by Disevidence ( 576586 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:53PM (#8784610) Homepage Journal
    That is complete bullshit.

    Read this. [jogin.com]

    Memo's from people that use to work at Real or still work there. In one of them, she says the bbc player is exactly the same as the other one.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @04:59PM (#8784706)
    Come on you guys...I would definitely accept that there were intolerable issues with RealPlayer right from downloading to the message center. But how many of you are talking, having been to real's site for the last month. They have cleaned up their act amazingly well..There is absolutely no bullshit in their website. Downloading is just two clicks and and is as easy to find as winamp or quicktime.

    Now message center can be completely turned off and is by default opt out during install. No more does realplayer take over your file associations. Come on..accept that itunes is extremely bitchy in this aspect. It just takes over your file associations whenever you open itunes and yes it does run two huge services as a daemon..

    Chk out the latest realplayer and I am sure you wont regret it. oh..I am no more a fanboy to realplayer than I am to winamp

    Get your facts right...
  • by AKnightCowboy ( 608632 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @05:05PM (#8784790)
    I usally use me@me.com with a zip code of 12345. since it is 5 digits and windows programers never actaully check data being entered it's all good.

    You should use someone@example.com instead. Whoever gets stuck with me.com is going to be pissed at all the spam they get. :-)

  • by retro128 ( 318602 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @05:08PM (#8784810)
    I was just mulling over the thought of installing the new Real Player to see if they got over the insane tentacleware complex they seem to have given RP9. According to the reviews on download.com [com.com], apparently not. Looks like it'll continue to be Real Alternative [hccnet.nl] for me!
  • RA Alternative (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @05:08PM (#8784811)
    I've been using the JetAudio player for all my media formats, including various real formats. No need to put up with the bs from the real website or its annoying player. Very easy to dowload and use at: http://www.jetaudio.com
  • by LS ( 57954 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @05:08PM (#8784814) Homepage
    Please call or e-mail Minnesota Public Radio, and let them know why you think an open format should be used for streaming content. Here's some reasons I can think of:

    * It's pulbic radio, it's funded by taxpayers and supporters, so it's a public resource. All the content should be freely available using open standards

    * Open standards like MP3 are supported by the most applications

    * Open standards like MP3 are best supported across platforms

    * Free software can be used to implement streaming

    * They will support the good will of the technically astute in their audience, who are also a source of funding

    * Any other good ideas? Here's the contact info, from their web site [publicradio.org]:

    EMAIL
    mail@mpr.org

    TELEPHONE
    General Inquiries: 651-290-1212 or 800-228-7123
    An MPR Member/Listener Services associate will answer your call between 8:30 am and 5 pm CT Monday-Friday. Beyond those hours, you may leave a message and your call will be returned within two business days.

    MPR Newsroom line: 651-290-1424
    News releases may be faxed to the newsroom at 651-290-1295. News tips may be e-mailed to newsroom@mpr.org. E-mail addresses for individual reporters may be found on the newsroom look-up page.

    Midmorning or Midday call-in shows: 651-227-6000 or 800-242-2828
    We are not able to include emails to shows in progress. If you would like to leave comments for Midmorning, call 651-290-1171.

    MAIL
    MPR Member/Listener Services
    45 East Seventh Street
    Saint Paul, MN USA 55101

    MEDIA INQUIRIES
    Andrea Matthews, 651-290-1303 or amatthews@mpr.org
    Suzanne Perry, 651-290-1276 or sperry@mpr.org

    LS
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @05:10PM (#8784831)
    The RealMedia server is avialable in a limited stream use as a free download. As far as propriatary streaming media goes, well, atleast they're cross platform. I agree that nothing beats a streaming ogg/mp3 site for radio/music/audible-content in general, but until business realize they won't get anymore screwed that route than another (as far as preserving IP rights) we won't really see adoption of these uncrippled standards. Besides you can always rip and convert a real stream, it is possible. I'd be sad to see Real go, you have to give them credit for being the first to give us streaming audio of any real quality, and other than there pushing sales attitudes toward their commerical alternatives to there software, I can't find much to fault them for.
  • by gl4ss ( 559668 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @05:10PM (#8784833) Homepage Journal
    the problem isn't that much of that it isn't available. It's just that there's these 3 honking big pics yelling at you "FREE DOWNLOAD 14 DAY TRIAL", It's just confusing because none of those big free download signs take you to download the actual free version, it's the small light gray(against white background) "free realone player" link that takes you to the page that gives you 2 choices(get our BEST player, which costs, or our free player), after you choose the free one you get to a page that asks which mirror you want(and hey, that free version of the player is annoying as hell as well! you see, the confusion and smoke and mirros don't stop at just getting the download - it's annoying all the way to the day you uninstall it).

    the download is findable if you're patient and know how the real psyche works, but if you've never been to the pages before you're probably tricked into wasting some serious time on the pseudo-free download(that asks all information about you).
  • Re:You Will (Score:2, Informative)

    by chachob ( 746500 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @05:11PM (#8784844)
    actually, version 10 has opt-out settings in the preferences for message center, so you wont see it again. you can also disable auto-update, so you wont get those "random notices that a new version of Real is available."
  • by Ungrounded Lightning ( 62228 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @05:31PM (#8785137) Journal
    While we're at it, where is the download for a free version for Sun Solaris?

    The last one I was able to find was 6.0.4.216 (Beta), on their "community supported" subsection, which I installed in May of 1999.

    Darned thing doesn't support most of the stream casting sites these days, and even the workarounds that used to work (digging the URL out of the file droppings in /tmp and reentering it from a menu) usually don't work anymore.
  • by proj_2501 ( 78149 ) <mkb@ele.uri.edu> on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @05:46PM (#8785341) Journal
    Multicast? Are you sure? For this to be advantageous, basically everyone has to watch the stream at the same time. To stream to different users at different times (which is usually the case) then you're basically talking about unicast again, which is the current model.

    For live broadcast audio, that's exactly what you want.
  • direct link (Score:3, Informative)

    by rakerman ( 409507 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @06:15PM (#8785671) Homepage Journal
    This "only 3425 clicks away from the home page" stuff is baloney. Why not use http://www.real.com/freeplayer/?rppr=slashdot [real.com] ?
  • by Sick Boy ( 5293 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @06:18PM (#8785706) Homepage
    Visit example.com, read the RFC referenced there, and be enlightened.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @06:35PM (#8785855)
    I've been using the BBC version at work and I get message center pop ups just as often as the normal version. I don't believe anything is different in the eyes of the user, maybe something underneath has been changed.
  • Re:Buffering.... (Score:3, Informative)

    by AxelBoldt ( 1490 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @06:55PM (#8786135) Homepage
    mplayer -ao pcm followed by sox is also very nice for converting a given real audio stream to an .ogg. I like to do it in a cron script to time shift and archive my favorite radio shows.
  • Er, remove the quotes. I put the query in quotes to separate it from the rest of the text. My mistake.
  • Acrobat is a hog (Score:2, Informative)

    by mopslik ( 688435 ) on Tuesday April 06, 2004 @07:25PM (#8786510)

    the acrobat reader ... does what it is supposed to and nothing more

    I wouldn't say that Acrobat reader does only what it's supposed to do. It's one hell of a resource hog. Upgrading from Acrobat 5, I find that 6 takes approximately 3X the time to load because of all of the default (read: useless) plugins.

    Fortunately, you can disable most of the unused features [mozillazine.org] and get it almost as fast as previous versions.

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