Clones Are Overwhelming TiVo

jfruhlinger writes "The first line from this CRN/Associated Press story says it all: 'Debra Baker tells people she has TiVo. But she really doesn't.' As cable companies offer their own DVR boxes to customers for no upfront cost and a lower monthly fee than the original, people are using TiVo as a verb but are frequently not using using the product or service itself in real life. The article notes that the cable company's DVRs don't have some of the archtypical TiVo features, such as the ability to guess what you'd like recorded based on your viewing habits."

Similar

[z0ink]

Similar to saying "I had a burger and coke for lunch," when you really had a burger and Pepsi. TiVo is becomming part of American culture.

Problem Seems to be Marketing

[pegasustonans]

TiVo's got the name-brand recognition, which is good, but it seems like they need to make some marketing efforts pinpointing what differentiates them from their primary competitors.

Re:Problem Seems to be Marketing

[Hrrrg]

I love my TiVo, but is they haven't really dropped the price (or expanded the storage/dollar) as hard drive prices have fallen. I have to say that some competition is welcome.

Re:Privacy concerns

[telstar]

All it does is increase the likelihood that the shows you watch will get renewed so you don't have to go stand outside a building and cheer for some crappy show on UPN or the WB to get un-dumped.

What I'd Like

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

Is a DVR that I can just buy and hook up to my cable feed without having to pay an additional monthly subscription to the cable barons. Sort of like my VCR.

How is this different then say . .

[OverlordQ]

"I need a Kleenex"

How many of you use the brand Kleenex?

"Man this headache is killer, gimmie a Aspirin"

or

"Aww do you got a boo-boo, let me get you a band-aid"

Are you really using Band-Aid brand bandages?

Re:Closed captioned for the standards impared

[Piquan]

Why do I care?

I have a TiVo fed by a settop. My settop is included in my cable package. I'm fine with that; it doesn't matter to me that the TiVo can't decode directly. Why do I care about OpenCable?

Re:Like hoover

[rethin]

Why? you ask? Because it dilutes the brand name. And building a respected well known brand name is very expensive and difficult. Companies are expected to take reasonable steps to protect their trademarked name. For example the Xerox corp has been fighting tooth and nail to keep the verk xerox from becoming synanomous with photocopy. This is exactly the reason why Federal Express changed their name to Fed Ex, because Fed Ex was becoming a generic verb that means send by express mail. If TiVo doesn't protect their name, then they may loose their right to their trademark. That would be a disaster to their buisness. Rethin

The price of success

[NonSequor]

When it was the only PVR on the market, there was no reason to call a PVR anything other than a TiVo. TiVo now will have to fight an uphill battle to try to get people to associate the word TiVo only with TiVo-brand PVRs.

Re:Similar

[Tablizer]

Similar to saying "I had a burger and coke for lunch," when you really had a burger and Pepsi. TiVo is becomming part of American culture.

As in, "I mistook my Tivo for a Kleenex box, and Bushed it all up!"

Maybe if they advertised effectively.

[phillymjs]

Sure, the "burly guys tossing the network programmer out the window" ad from a few years ago was funny, but how about some ads that lay out what the TiVo can do, and more importantly, what the cablecos' TiVo-wannabes don't do?

They need a whole series of ads that directly address the cable companies in certain markets. Something like, "Think you've got a TiVo(TM)? Well if it came from your cable company, you don't..."

Satisfied customers' word of mouth is a great way to advertise, but it can't compare to the reach that the cable companies have, unless TiVo does something like hiring a network of their customers to work in Best Buy and Circuit City part time as evangelists-- who else would be better suited to explain exactly what it does?

~Philly

Re:Closed captioned for the standards impared

[Fermier de Pomme de]

You are on the money - TiVo is being locked out but I have a feeling that it has something to do with the cable companies eagerness to maintain their closed and quasi-monopolistic networks.

It reminds me of when I was young and my parents had to lease a phone from The Phone Company. What is amazing is that the same thing that was going on ~30 years ago is going on today.

If the F.C.C cared about competition in the broadcast/broadband arena they would force open-spec cable/sat networks where any player could pay to have their unit approved by a testing body. Then the consumer would get to choose their AV gear based on best-fit, not because their sole cable provider has locked everyone out and made a deal with a single provider.

If this were to happen you would see some amazing convergence applications - true home entertainment systems - that worked together seamlessly, in short order. The economies of scale would be there and the competition would drive product development.

Why "TiVo" is (nearly) the accepted generic term:

[Atario]

Because "DVR" sucks.

We already have too many TLAs -- DVD, VCR, ATM, SUV. All because no one can come up with a decent name for a new class of objects, only too-verbose phrases. "Automatic Teller Machine" is clearly too much to say, so the lazy thing to do is acronymify it, and you get "aee tee em". T'would be better to come up with an easy, catchy, single-word, pronouncable term for it (as in some European countries -- "autobank" or "bankomat" do nicely).

But here we sit, saddled with "dee vee are". "Yuck. 'Teevoh'? Hey, neat!"

So TiVo it is.

Re:Privacy concerns

[The Lynxpro]

"Such as selling your personal viewing habits to advertisers? I'm no tinfoil-hatter, but this is one of the main reasons I chose ReplayTV. I understand TiVo's data collection is aggregate, but the thought that someone keeps a record of everything I watch (or re-watch), and uses it for profit is a bit off-putting.
Kudos to the newcomers!"

Why do you care? TiVo hopes to use the information they can sell to increase their profitability and hopefully lower the subscription costs for their customers. How is that bad? Its not like they are going to tell advertisers and the government that "Joe Average" at 123 Average Way watches Cinemax (aka "Skinamax") every single evening. It is aggregate. And speaking as a TiVo enthusiast, I am happy they will be reporting viewing habits to advertisers. I want advertisers to know that they shouldn't advertise feminine hygene products during action programs and the like. I want to encourage advertisers to actually make decent commercials. And most importantly, I'm tired of 6,000 Nielsen homes dictating what is shown on television. There are over 1 million TiVo subscribers vs. 6,000 Nielsen homes. I want our numbers to count for something because I'm tired of seeing shows that I like (such as "Angel") getting cancelled. The other DVR/PVRs on the market, such as your ReplayTV (which has bankrupted two corporate owners and is now on its third and still has yet to get over 100,000 subscribers), do not have the power to save favorite television programs from cancellation. So in my book, TiVo's aggregate viewer data collection is a reason to sign up.

Re:If other people make a better / cheaper product

[LostCluster]

What's wrong with that?

If my cable company (or some satellite company) wants to bundle a DVR with the service, so what? If you don't want to use it you don't have to - go buy a Tivo or build yourself an HTPC or whatever floats your boat.

If my operating system company (or some really big software company) wants to bundle a Web Browser with the software, so what? If you don't want to use it you don't have to - go buy Netscape or code one for yourself or whatever flots your boat.

Uhm... wait a second.

Who is the Customer?

[Detritus]

The problem with a box provided by the cable operator is that its features are going to be tailored to meet the desires of the cable operator, not the end user. That's how we've ended up with crappy digital cable decoders that have program guides that devote more space to ads than programming, no s-video or component outputs, no reliable and standardized means of remote control, and slow/buggy software. The cable operator wants a zillion cheap boxes that integrate into their overall business strategy, which places little or no value on what any particular subscriber might want.

kleenex

[enrico_suave]

I'm sure tivo is happy to get verb status and market recognition, but they could end up being like kleenex::tissues and thermos::portable drink container keeps food hot/cold

e.

How about UNIX/LINUX

[LinuxMacWin]

Debra Baker tells people she has Unix. But she really doesn't. She has Linux.

My Cable DVR Sucks.

[ayeco]

I don't care what you say, my cable DVR sucks, badly. I have the motorola 6208, and it's the worst piece of crap ever. Sure, I can timeshift HD and SD programming, but the interface and useability blows. I'm serious. This thing give motorola a bad name, and that's too bad b/c they didn't write the software for it (the cable co's outsource it).

I've had a Tivo for years. I'm not just a fanboy, I tried to get into my Cable co's pvr, but it's hard to like something that is that hard to use! The ff function barely works smoothly, there is not status bar that tells you where you are in a program, setting up a recording couldn't be any harder, and the guide is cluttered by stinking advertisements! etc etc etc.

I'm so happy that I bought a Tivo and the lifetime sub when I did. I just wish I could use the tivo to record my cable co's HD programming. I'd buy a cable card tivo in no time flat (ok, it would have to cost less that $450 bucks).

Re:Better than TiVo

[TexVex]

The two are fundamentally incomparable.

The DirecTiVo has no value other than as a DirecTV receiver with TiVo. The hardware is subsidized by the one or two year contract with DirecTV you were required to sign. You know, the one that makes you owe them extra money if you drop their service. The only upgrades possible are to the TiVo's hard drive, and all you can do is add a second drive ONCE. And doing that requires you to void your warranty and accomplish feats of hackery.

My system, on the other hand, is a fully functional computer. A standard TV makes for a crappy computer monitor, but it's much better with an HDTV. Being a full computer system allows it to act as a file server, a media server, a WebTV, a video editing station, a photo viewer/printer, a game console, and whatever else I can find to do with it. It is upgradeable, meaning I can drop in additional components to keep up with changing technology or add new features. I can replace SageTV with another software solution, or replace my cable provider with a satellite, without penalty. There are also no monthly fees.

I'm not bashing TiVo. Hell, I've owned two DirecTiVo boxes, one of which died to a lightning strike and led to me purchasing the other. I like TiVo enough to give my retired TiVo box to a family member who uses DirecTV and likes what TiVo does.

I'm just happy I have the means to explore the future of home communication and media delivery. Twenty years ago a setup like mine was science fiction. Yeah, I shelled out a few hundred for some new hardware and recycled some spare computer parts to build this system. Let's pretend it all cost me $1000. That's still less than a decent wide-screen HDTV, and provides a hell of a lot of value for the investment.

Solvable problem for tivo

[Zed2K]

I have a Scientific Atlanta 8000 dvr box via time warner and love it. But tivo can solve their little problem by licensing out the software to the companies that make the cable boxes. Or make their own cable boxes that are compatible. If they already tried to do this then they need to try harder.

Then again the cable box dvr has 2 tuners and lets me record 2 shows and watch a recorded one all at the same time. Only way you can do that with a tivo is with an expensive direct tv box. Maybe thats their problem. Their product is too expensive.

Re:Why "TiVo" is (nearly) the accepted generic ter

[platypibri]

SUV = Sport Utility Vehicle
But, as it happens, they are not acronyms as they do not form a pronouncable word. Now if it was a Sport Utility Car Kit, and thus a S.U.C.K., THAT would be an acronym.

It's the GUI, Stupid

[theRG]

I think the thing that TiVo has going for it above all else is its GUI--its ease of use. That's what's missing in many modern day electronics. How could we have expected the public--who can't even program a VCR--to be able to operate a DVR that can do much much more than a standard VCR? TiVo has done an excellent job at making a great UI.

That's why I think that the clones from cable companies (and the Dish Network) and ReplayTV are bad for the DVR space in general because their interfaces suck. I suppose the flip side of this is that TiVo won't rest on its laurels and will continue to improve upon its interface.

And on another note: yeah they have to fix their pricing scheme. Everytime I evangelize the wonders of TiVo to someone, they get all excited and then are scared away by the price.

"Tivo" easier to understand than "DVR"

[Zerbey]

When I tell the average person I meet that I have a DVR (one of the Scientific Atlanta 8000's from my Cable Company) I'm usually met with a blank expressions followed by a lengthy explanation. Pretty much everyone understands what a Tivo is and what it does.

It's just too expensive

[swb]

Tivo costs too much for many people. I bought my Series2 a year and a half ago (right as TW Cable started making their SA 8000 DVR available), and box+lifetime was over $500.

TW's box was $6.95 per month at my package level (HBO/Cinemax). I have to have my S2 for over 6 years to get ahead of renting from TW, and that presumes I don't blow a HDD or have some other failure that requires me to spend $100 getting mine fixed to retain the lifetime (you can do this). Adding in a repair trip pushes it over 7 years.

I wouldn't trade my Tivo for TW's box, but to a lot of ordinary people they do the same thing and the TW box is *way* cheaper to own. No upfront costs. No repair liability. Dual-tuner capability. I'm not saying the TW box is *better*, just that it has some compelling feartures and a great price point for the masses who can make or break a product.

Personally I think Tivo needs to alter their revenue model and innovate a lot more. Some random ideas:

Free Tivo basic. One sub fee for multiple boxes per household. Free HMO for second (third, ...) boxes. Sell "cool" or requested software updates as modules (Batch Save to VCR, distributed scheduling). Really innovate the hardware -- firewire for additional storage/tuners, built-in GigE, 900Mhz digital remotes -- *and* figure out how to sell it for a profit. Sell a "PC Pak" -- HW accelerated TV card + TivoOS for HTPC applications.

I love Tivo, but I can't help but think its high price vs. cable and absence of innovation in software or hardware will sink it against the cable behemoths.

Re:Solvable problem for tivo

[tomk]

$4.99 per month on the total choice programming package, for an unlimited number of TiVos (no additional charge for more than one)

No monthly charges on the premier packages.

And the packages themselves have more channels, with better audio & video quality, for a lower monthly fee than any cable company I've investigated.

Certainly not an unreasonable price.