HDTV TiVo Now Shipping 144
davco9200 writes "After over a year of waiting, the HDTV TiVo from Hughes (HR10-2350) is finally shipping. People have been receiving their first unit and you can read their first impressions. Suffice to say: they love it."
For DIY'ers (Score:3, Interesting)
(The Hoojum [see above link] box also looks very very nice, at least IMHO
Simon
Re:For DIY'ers (Score:2, Interesting)
Is it like a 'co-processor' that does certain calculations used for MPEG faster? That might make it useful for other codecs too.
Or am I totally wrong?
Re:For DIY'ers (Score:2)
Re:For DIY'ers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:For DIY'ers (Score:2)
Re:For DIY'ers (Score:2)
I don't see any HD connectors, just RCA and S-Video. [mini-itx.com] Would the data come over the ethernet jack from another machine?
Huh? (Score:5, Informative)
The VIA chipset supports MPEG2 acceleration (offload of iDCT and Motion Compensation) *not* full HD decoding. So, you still need a lot of CPU horsepower to display HD - more than the 1GHz VIA C3 has to offer.
Beyond that, there is no way to hook an HDTV tuner to that board, not to mention the 2 Off The Air tuners the Tivo supports.
Then, you've got the DirecTV input.. The Tivo has 2 DirecTV tuners, while it's impossible to use DirecTV with a PC board.
Then, you've got the software. There are some decent PC PVR packages available. But, nothing up to the Tivo's level.
Well, you have to assume they're not stupid (Score:2)
Since VIA have put a lot of effort into upping the boards memory capabilities, and running SD mpeg decode takes (on an 8mbit stream on my mini-itx box) ~12% CPU, I'd be surprised if it couldn't handle HD. My projector can on
Re:Well, you have to assume they're not stupid (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Well, you have to assume they're not stupid (Score:2)
I don't know where you got that number, but it's ridiculous.
I'm using up about 30% of my 1.6GHz CPU while playing 1080p HDTV content, and I'd bet most of that is only because audio decoding isn't hardware accelerated...
BTW, that is with MPlayer on Linux, using XVMC.
And I've used the hardware playback capabilities of ATI cards before, and I can assure you they don't perform twice as well as NVidia's
Re:Well, you have to assume they're not stupid (Score:2)
Re:Well, you have to assume they're not stupid (Score:2)
Re:For DIY'ers (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, if you combined that with a cable HD set top box with Firewire output, you could capture the MPEG transport stream with very
Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:5, Interesting)
TiVo available in Canada
It's about time we had this by now, dammit...
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:1, Flamebait)
Canada is too far down the fascist slippery slope for that to work. In Ontario, for example, you don't get title to a house, or a car: your "ownership" is registered in a government database. Guess what could happen if someone became a serious thorn in the government's side?
There are two big reasons for keeping American satellite television out of Canada:
1. Economically, the local satellite and cable providers
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:5, Interesting)
So, go ahead and buy a tivo, you won't be allowed to use it, but it is technically available in canada...
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:2)
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:3, Informative)
That's the status on DirecTV units in Canada.
Standalone TiVo's are perfectly legal to use, however TiVo's data service doesn't dial-in numbers in Canada nor do they bother to cover Canadian TV sc
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:2)
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:1)
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:1)
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:5, Informative)
On the contrary, Tivo seems quite hostile to the idea of selling Tivos in Canada. Once a national canadian radio station called up Tivo to ask about Tivo in canada, and their PR rep got angry about setting up an interview with Tivo under false pretences.
Does anyone know what Tivo's beef is with Canada?
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:5, Interesting)
Simply it's a market that they haven't chosen to enter.
The PR rep had a right to get angry, he was being ambushed with a question he didn't have a good answer to. There's really no technical or legal barrier standing in the way, but it's just a matter that TiVo hasn't seen fit to contract with Canadian dial-up network, program the IR software to work with Canadian cable and DBS companies, and create the channel lineups for Canadian cable systems.
For that matter, there's no TiVo in Mexico either. TiVo's only non-USA market is the UK.
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:5, Informative)
A tivo in Canada can generally call a local number to contact Tivo. No hacking of any required for it. There are local numbers in all major cities. I believe they contracted with UUNet, but whatever.
The IR Software works just fine with my Digital cable box. Canada uses pretty much the same electronics as the United States. There may be the odd difference, but it is the exception, not the rule.
I believe Tivo gets their guide data from Tribune, which, in my case is the source for Zap2It.com which is my source for tv listings.
The only technical issue with a Tivo in Canada that I can see is that we do not have zip-codes, instead we have Postal Codes, and this does complicate things a little on configuraing a Tivo, but the changes were made to support Tivo in the UK, so even those software changes are not a big deal.
The only real issue that could be holding Tivo out of the Canadian market is French language issues. Anything else has to be political issues.
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:2)
I doubt it. I record french programs on my tivo all the time. The title shows up in french and everything works perfectly. The menu has to be a snap to change over to french. I bet it's political.
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline...(offtopic) (Score:2)
It seems most TiVo services are pretty restricted in what they'll do and likely only to get more so as advert-skipping is widely suppressed already....
If I won't let me upload files to my PC, what's the point? might as well just use KaZaAlite for free.
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:1)
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:2)
For small values of market - the service is supported, but they aren't on sale any more [tivo.com].
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:3, Informative)
Just buy a regular Tivo and check out tivocanada.com.
I have a Series 2 working quite well (98%). HMO option is the only issue outstanding.
I did pay for the lifetime subscription, I had no intentions of ripping Tivo off, I just wanted a working PVR. They get their money, and I get my PVR. I looks like I may, down the road, have to pay Zap2It for tv listings, but right now atleast they are free.
(And they now support a direct data option, no more webpage scraping).
[note fatal issues: HMO option (which I bo
Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:1)
I'd be happy just with HDTV (Score:2)
HD Porn (Score:5, Funny)
Re:HD Porn (Score:1, Flamebait)
Actually, I read an article somewhere recently that suggested that HD porn isn't going to be the way to go. The basic gist of the article was that we like are porn stars smooth and unblemished; we're willing to accept some imperfections in Hollywood actors, but the author noted that Cameron Diaz's acne scars threw him/her off a little. So HD sex isn't such a good thing--what about HD violence? Is it mo
Re:HD Porn (Score:1)
Pssst, don't tell anyone, but there's pornography right here on the Internet. You don't even need a TV or DirecTV subscription. Don't let anyone else know or they might shut us down though so keep it on the down-low.
There already is one... (Score:2)
http://www.directv.com/see/landing/spicehd.html [directv.com]
Re:HD Porn (Score:3, Funny)
4 Tuners! (Score:4, Informative)
Of course there's barely 4 channels worth of HD I'd want to record at once, but it's certainly a nice package. Like the other DirecTiVos, though, it does not have an MPEG encoder, so no cable or analog antenna inputs -- you're stuck with DirecTV and broadcast digital.
Re:4 Tuners! (Score:4, Informative)
There's really no content loss in not having an MPEG encoder on board. Nearly every analog channel is now being repeated digitally on their sister digital channel, or in most major markets DirecTV has an MPEG-translated version you can get access to.
This is the early adopter's model. There's going to be better ones in a few years.
Re:4 Tuners! (Score:2)
The system only supports recording two streams at once. That's two OTA digital TV streams, two satellite streams, or one of each. Any combination of HD and SD.
MPEG compression (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:MPEG compression (Score:3, Informative)
I have also used standalone tivo's though, and although I have noticed the pictures slightly modified, they seemed to be slightly different (the tivo had smoothing turned on), but again, neither was bad.
But for cost and ease of u
Re:MPEG compression (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.ljay.org.uk/tivoweb/tivo_fpga.html
Re:MPEG compression (Score:2)
The HDTV units have no MPEG settings, because they don't encode to MPEG at all, they just record the bits as they're given to it from either DirecTV or the broadcast digital TV station.
Re:MPEG compression (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:MPEG compression (Score:4, Informative)
MPEG is designed as a processes that's computationally cheap to decode, which means that it's computationally expensive to encode. Basically, TV stations, networks, and signal providers have more expensive MPEG encoders than can ever be included in a consumer device, so they come up with more-bang-for-the-bandwidth. It'll always be better to just save that bitstream to an HD than to decompress and re-encode.
Re:MPEG compression (Score:2)
The quality difference you see on your TiVo is due to the MPEG encoding done by the TiVo. Because it's got to to real-time encoding and encode at a relatively low bit-rate to save disk space, the encoding isn't going to be that wonderful, and you see t
Re:MPEG compression (Score:2)
However, this doesn't apply to HDTiVo, which doesn't do any encoding at all. It just saves the already-encoded HD signal to disk.
Re:MPEG compression (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, but your non-HD TV signal is analog. For Tivo to store it, it has to convert it to digital, then encode it in real-time (which is never good for quality).
Besides that, Tivos encode to low-bitrate MPEG in order to save space. If you select the highest quality, it should be high enough that you won't notice any difference in quality.
HDTV is broadcast in MPEG2, so the Tivo just has to store it, losslessly, perfectly. So with HDTV, the signal from the TV will be just as good as one that is direct.
Interestingly enough, if you wanted a slightly lower-quality HDTV stream in order to save space, the Tivo should be able to do some MPEG2 tricks, like Requant, which will require practically no CPU power. If the company is smart, a Tivo is going to be a lot more like a TV studio, and less like a VCR.
Re:Broadcast flag? (Score:2)
I'm not sure how the TV studios will "disable" it. And for them to do so would probably not improve their chances of having their programming carried by DirectTV, the satellite TV provider that is offering the device.
DirecTivo, HD-TiVo, and problems (Score:5, Informative)
In reading the initial comments about the HD-TiVo, there is one complaint that could be a problem for those who are currently using a DirecTV HD receiver like the DTC-100 and a non-HD DirecTiVo.
Apparently, when the HD-TiVo gets a non-HD signal, it doesn't automatically switch its output to 480i/480p. It also doesn't stretch/zoom the image to fill a 16x9 screen. This means you need to manually switch the output if you want your TV's de-interlacer/scaler to adjust the image. Depending on who you ask, this is a no-op, annoying, or fatal. (I'm probably in the annoying camp)
Re:DirecTivo, HD-TiVo, and problems (Score:2)
The HD-Tivo *will* stretch, fill, or letterbox 4:3 SDTV content - depending on how you've configured it (you choose how to display it.. I prefer leaving it 4:3 with sidebar letterboxing, but others prefer to stretch it). Check on tivocommunity.com, there is a link to a PDF of the HD-Tivo manual, it describes the options for displaying 4:3 material.
The only issue is the other one you mentioned - when people want to use their TV's scaler, and
100 channels of HD (Score:3, Insightful)
The other day I was laying in a hospital bed waiting to go into surgery to get my deviated septum fixed. Decided to flip on the TV and see what I've been missing... flip... flip.. flip...
I turned it off and went to sleep until the nurse came in and gave me a shot of demerol.
It would be great if there were something on to watch. As it is, though, all I ever watch anymore is Survivor and Star Trek and West Wing. If I want to see west wing in HD or Star Trek I just download it from usenet - and it ain't locked down, as I would imagine these gadgets are.
If Hollywood wants me to subscribe to one of these services, they better start showing something worth paying for.
No, scratch that... they better start showing a lot of stuff worth paying for. And without the DRM nonsense.
Re:100 channels of HD (Score:1)
How can you download entire movies from usenet?
Are there actually ISPs that would keep newsgroups that post gigabytes worth of media every day?
Re:100 channels of HD (Score:1)
Re:100 channels of HD (Score:1)
Newsgroups are not carried by the ISP because of "illegal content".
Oh well.
What ISP (Score:2)
Re:What ISP (Score:1)
Ah. A mistake by a non-native English speaker. I didn't mean to use a definite article to such an effect.
I simply meant that all the ISPs I've been a customer to have carried all text newsgroups, some vanilla alt.binaries.* groups but no groups containing massive video/audio files.
Re:What ISP (Score:1)
Re:100 channels of HD (Score:1)
An ode to my TiVo, (Score:5, Funny)
My TiVo box, a loyal pal,
a friend I truly care for.
Because it guarantees I'll see,
the shows I wasn't there for.
Two-thousand shows I've 'taped' so far,
each night I 'tape' a new one.
Who knows, perhaps there'll come a day,
I'll find the time to view one...
They love it? (Score:5, Interesting)
So I'm reading the first 3 (out of 4) pages from that link of early-impressions... seems like there are various problems -- including: cleaning out the menu signals (which are currently bleeding into the actual video feed), slow(er) menu response time, difficulties properly identifying and/or configuring which resolution to output to, and low quality when using the tivo unit to scale the video (instead of letting the TV do it).
Now some of these problems can be fixed easily (more or less) with a firmware update... others might be a sign that the hardware isn't up to snuff. Either way, I don't seem to be reading in rave reviews of the new TiVo... certainly nothing wild enough to dare claim anyone "loves it."
Personally, I think I'll hold on to my money for a while yet until a few of these kinks are worked out.
Re:They love it? (Score:2)
href="http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/poll.p h p?s=&action=showresults&pollid=2255 [tivocommunity.com]
For those of us in the UK.. (Score:4, Interesting)
I, for one, would love to be able to get HDTV here in the UK. I suppose the good side to this is that by the time we finally DO get HDTV, I might be able to afford a Tivo to record it with. Although, having said that, based on our past success at getting new technologies rolled out, we'll be in the year 2030 with holographic tv, or intra-brain chips that just beam the information straight to our visual cortex.
Wait a minute. That'd be pretty cool. Although, for those of us in the UK, HoloTV will be implemented by the time we're actually partaking in television. And by the time.... [iterate].
Re:For those of us in the UK.. (Score:2)
Re:For those of us in the UK.. (Score:2)
PAL may be higher resolution (~580 lines vs. 480 lines, after overscan) but it's crap in other ways. Particularly the fact that the vertical refresh is 50Hz.
ATSC 720P delivers 720 noninterlaced (progressive) lines, 60 frames a second. 1080i delivers 1080 interlaced lines, 60 fields a second.
PAL is OK, but it still doesn't look great on a 42" Plasma. Even an EDTV can reveal the flaws of PAL.
Yes, PAL is far better than NTSC, particularly in the color department. Remember, however, that many in the
Re:For those of us in the UK.. (Score:2)
The same applies to PAL - the colour subcarrier is stuffed into a backward compatible B&W signal so the old B&W TVs can still see it.
The European Digital TV system (which, like GSM, will likely become the worldwide standard), DVB-T, is a fine system.
Fo
I got one... (Score:5, Informative)
TiVo really dropped the ball by not adding any new features or functionality, not even the HMO features. This is a stright port from the old version of TiVo software to support HDTV.
TiVo had the opportunity (and more than plenty of time) to make this product a huge leap the PVR game, but they seemed to have choose the safe route.
So for your $900 you get a TiVo that supports HDTV, but not much else.
Re:I got one... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I got one... (Score:2)
Re:I got one... (Score:1)
but part of the beauty of the tivo is that the software can be easily and automatically upgraded through self-initiated downloads. you could wake up one morning and BAM! HMO
personally i'm glad that they decided to release to market as soon as the hardware was ready. now they can devote the bulk of their resources to upgrading the software while ppl are already enjoying the features present in this product.
Re:I got one... (Score:4, Informative)
DirecTV won't allow HMO for some reason (there is a petition out there somewhere). NO DirecTiVo has HMO. It's not TiVo's fault, DirecTV is the one you've got a beef with. DirecTV is in total controll about what version of software it runs (verison 3.1.x probably) and many other things.
As for "adding any new features or functionality", like what? I've got a second generation DirecTiVo (Phillips DSR-7000) and other than HMO, I can't think of anything that I'd like it to have. The only thing that I wish it had was more memory and a faster processor, which I assume that the new box has.
They added HDTV and you can still record two programs at once (even two HDTV programs at once). What big stuff could you want other than that?
As for the $900, for that you get a TiVo that can hold 200 hours of SD ($99 dollar TiVo plus about $250 for upgrade from 9thTee), a HDTV reciever DirecTV reciever ($300 for a Samsung from BestBuy). That's $650. But you can record TWO things at once, so throw in a second HDTV reciever to make things fair (another $300) and now we're up to $1050. Of course all this stuff is in one nice little box so you don't need nearly as many cables. The box could be considered a $150 SAVINGS over the equivelent other equiptment only it's all in one and does things that the above stuff can't (like TiVo HDTV content).
Re:I got one... (Score:2)
Suprisingly, this new one is not faster at all.
Hmmmm...Somethings TiVo could have added...
- Folders grouping programs together
- Free space indicator
- A wider program guide to take advantage of widescreen TVs
- The ability to add external storage
- Network connectivity
- Internet integration (for example, a movie listing in the guide could link to IMDB).
- More advanced Wishlists and Seasons Passes (let me add my own criteria and
Re:I got one... (Score:2)
1) folders: these are present in the 4.x versions of Tivo software. However, as mentioned above, DirecTV chooses what version of software to run on DirecTivos, not Tivo, and they have chosen to keep 3.x
2) The ability to add external storage: what would that be enclosed in? Are you suggesting they support external firewire drive enclosures for example?
3) Network connectivity: the only purpose in this is to enable hacks such
Re:I got one... (Score:1)
For the most part though, this is exactly what I was looking for: an HD version of the DirecTiVo box. For the first generation, I think they did a great job. Nothing too amibtious, just make a high def version of the DirecTiVo.
I received my HD TiVo on Friday and got everything connected Friday night. My only concern is the huge list of shows on my 120 gig SD DirecTiVo box. I can't fill up the HD box with new stuff until I
They love it? (Score:5, Informative)
The big problem they are having is it doesn't switch native resolutions. Every time you change the channel or watch a new show that has been recorded, you have to change the output resolution. How many wives want to hit 10 buttons just to change the channel? Others are saying it isn't recording all of their season pass shows correctly.
They are optimistic, though, because the chips used in the TiVo should easily be able to fix the native res problem by a software update.
Re:They love it? (Score:2)
So far, they do love it (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/poll.php?s=&a ction=showresults&pollid=2255 [tivocommunity.com]
Re:They love it? (Score:2)
Well, you don't have to. The TiVo will convert to any resolution. It's mainly a concern of video purists who want to get the absolute best picture that they can. They'd like
I want one! (Score:3, Funny)
Don't Bother! TiVo Dieing! (Score:1, Flamebait)
They're going out of business! Then you'll be left with a best-in-class device that does exactly what you want and there won't be any company around to support it! They are "beleaguered," just like Apple (another company that actually delivers the goods, today) and so you had better listen to the F.U.D.!
<
Re:Don't Bother! TiVo Dieing! (Score:2)
Boooooo Hisssss (Score:4, Interesting)
Get thee behind me, Satan!
Re:Boooooo Hisssss (Score:3, Insightful)
The fact that this is being supported now sickens me.
Regular DVI inputs could potentially get a downrezzed or blank picture depending on content providers.
THAT had best be FUD, otherwise I would be seriously PO'D. I don't pay for 'content protection'.
Re:Boooooo Hisssss (Score:2)
I hate to break the bad news to you, but in a few years you're going to be wishing you had a DVI input with HDCP support on your TV. If you purchased your TV any time in the last two years I'm surprised you didn't research this. Already HBO and Showtime are turning on the DVI-HDCP copy protection flag, which encrypts the DVI stream between the TV and STB. It's only a matter of time befor
Re:Boooooo Hisssss (Score:3, Interesting)
If you need HDTV time-shifting, a HDTV PCI card is under $200, and a Geforce4 (which has on-board MPEG1/2-decoding) is very cheap (~$40).
Throw them in an old slow PC (with a huge hard drive of course) and you've got all you really need. It will take a beginner a day or two to setup all the software, but it's no big hardship, and you'll get a lot more features than you'd ever have in a Tivo.
Open Cable TIVO? (Score:1)
Re:HDTV TiVo? It must have gigantic HD and CPU! (Score:2)
HD, yes, cpu, no, not really. After all, it's not encoding anything, it's just saving the pre-encoded HDTV stream to the hard drive.
Re:HDTV TiVo? It must have gigantic HD and CPU! (Score:3, Interesting)
No.
Re:Somebody want to post where to get it? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Tell us about the DRM. (Score:2)
There is no legal way of "rolling your own" satellite TV to avoid monthly fees.
Re:Tell us about the DRM. (Score:1)
Let's see: He's got a camcorder and a desk. There's a talk show! Take the camcorder outside. An action show! Point the camera at the dog. A nature documentary! Turn on the radio. A music video!
That's what he means by rolling his own.
-Aaron
Re:Tell us about the DRM. (Score:1)
Re:Tell us about the DRM. (Score:2)
It is always a good idea to pay attention to the topic of a discussion before posting. In this case, the topic is the HDTiVo, a high-definition satellite TV receiver with PVR capability.
Re:Tell us about the DRM. (Score:2)
It does not function without a satellite TV subscription and is being marketed as a satellite TV receiver/PVR. So yes, if your only interest is in recording off-the-air broadcasts, then it is excessively expensive. But isn't that a bit like complaining that an automobile is excessively expensive if all you want to do with it is listen to the radio?