Star Wars Episode III : Birth Of The Empire 970
lemmen writes "According the Brtish tabloid The Sun, Star Wars III will carry the name 'Birth Of The Empire'. This will be announced soon according the article. Also it describes one of the highlights of the movie: 'A thrilling lightsabre clash between Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker while surfing on lava.' Can't wait till May 15th 2005!" Thanks to reader ExoticMandibles, another quality news source: Teen Hollywood. Update: 05/20 05:47 GMT by T :
Gokey writes with a correction: "StarWars.com indicates that the movie is released May 19th, 2005 (exactly
one year from now) not May 15th, 2005."
hmmmm.... i wonder.... (Score:3, Interesting)
"Surfing on lava"? (Score:2, Interesting)
I think I'll pass on this one, at least in the theaters.
Man, what a shame to see such a great franchise take such a huge steaming crap...
A new hope... (Score:3, Interesting)
I think both Episode I and II were good movies (II was better than I), but still somewhat lacking compared to the first three.. Perhaps it was the overuse of CGI?
Surfing (Score:5, Interesting)
surfing on lava? (Score:2, Interesting)
Surfing on lava makes sense (Score:5, Interesting)
Wholly abandoning realism (Score:3, Interesting)
At least the first three (4,5,&6) were SOMEWHAT realistic. Sure there was some futuristic/fantasy gear, but light sabers, blasters, and the force aren't that far of a stretch.
But now you bring in SURFING ON LAVA! What the hell kind of stupid ass idea is this? Somewhere in the formula of $goodMovie = $whatsAlreadyBeen done * $somethingExtravagantlyStupid ^ $corporatefunding there is a missing $creativity, $originality, or $substance, and that's just going to make this move suck more than EP 1.
On an altogether second star wars bitch, I still fscking hate Jar-Jar Binx, and think whoever created that turdmonkey should be shot, even if it is Lucas
Re:Surfing on lava? (Score:5, Interesting)
May 15th, 2005? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:hmmmm.... i wonder.... (Score:5, Interesting)
You heard it hear first! But then I realized this after walking out of EP2.
If you're wondering... the expanded SW lore says that when a Jedi of one side (dark or light) dies, an energy field in the area is created in which a member of the opposite side can hide within and remain undetected.
I know it's a bit too much analysis, but why didn't Vader every hunt down Yoda, wouldn't a Jedi of such power been easily located? The above is the explanation they will use.
Re:Surfing on lava? (Score:0, Interesting)
Re:hmmmm.... i wonder.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Same with Tattooine, hence Obi Wan Kenobi's presence there.
Can we still consider this a "good franchise?" (Score:4, Interesting)
Maybe I'm the odd guy out (Score:4, Interesting)
About the name of the movie, why the shit-fits from all the people? It's simple, and very much similar to the rest of the titles of all of them, including the older ones.
-Jesse, likes all of them.
Re:Keep Continuity. PLEASE Don't Make It Stupid Su (Score:2, Interesting)
What amazes me is that much of the coolness in Star Wars was absolutely NOT Lucas' doing. Has anyone played the West End Games version of SW Roleplaying game? I never really did, but I owned all the books. It's AMAZING how creative those people were, why can't Lucas take a page out of their book?
Re:Spoiler alert - Leia? (Score:3, Interesting)
As to it not making sense for Luke going to Tatooine, I thought it actually did - wasn't Luke given to "Uncle Owen" (whom I presume is Anakin's half brother) to be raised?
Give Lucas some credit. He "Spoils" something that shouldn't be news, but holds back the piece that is actually more intriguing (at least I hope it is).
myke
Re:Star Wars III: (Score:3, Interesting)
EpII tile: just plain misleading. Who's side were those clones on anyway? And who did they attack? Did they really attack or defend? Maybe "Mystery of the Clones" would have been more accurate and then I could have gotten excited about the combination of Sci-Fi and thriller genres. But I kept waiting for the evil clones to attack and was ultimately disappointed when they were on our side (or were they!).
Ep III: even more misleading. Is this a documentary about racists in a galaxy far, far away? I am as excited as ever about the combination of Sci-Fi and racist documentary genre's but I ultimately feel I will be disappointed when there are no thrilling chases with KKK people on horses. Why, oh, why does Lucas taunt me like this.
Re:Star Wars III: (Score:5, Interesting)
I was excited for A New Hope, and went to see it at the Ziegfeld Theater in NYC when it premiered. I left the movie disappointed and aghast - horrible writing, terrible directing and a movie which bored me silly. My problem with Star Wars is not Star Wars but George Lucas himself, and the huge drop in quality he has overseen. It seems that without Leigh Bracket and Irvin Kershner to help him, Lucas is incapable of rising above rank melodrama in the new movies. The is doubly confusing to me, as Lucas did great things with the first movie, American Graffiti and THX1138.
I don't know when Lucas lost it (I think it was when he changed the Greedo/Solo scene for the re-release of the original trilogy) but I have no problem saying the emperor has no clothes. I will always enjoy the first three movie, but the last two have been complete crap.
Re:Star Wars III: (Score:3, Interesting)
If you are from the Star Wars 4-5-6 generation (as I am) you have most likely seen the portrait of Lucas done by Bob Foss in "All that Jazz". Anyone having any doubts whatsoever about Lucas should go and see that movie. Besides everything else it is also the best portrait of Lucas done by one of the greatest masters of Cinema when he knew that he was dying and no longer cared even if Lucas would have sued his arse.
winning name? (Score:2, Interesting)
If "Birth of the Empire" was the winning name. I wonder what some of the losers were....
light sabers & jedis and such (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Oh great (Score:4, Interesting)
I think the generally accepted term is "Space opera", which it always has been. ;)
Speaking as someone old enough... (Score:2, Interesting)
Birth of a Nation^H^H^H^H^HEmpire (Score:5, Interesting)
Shallow characters made up of racist stereotypes.
But somehow, I don't suppose star wars fans will go on to form a new KKK type thing. Though lynching Jar Jar after the first one would have been good for us all.
And no, Lucas will not be getting a "hollywood mansion" (below). He's quite not enamoured of Hollywood. Part of why he moved to Marin, gave up his DGA card, etc. The union rules were also part of the hassle of getting other directors on some other episodes.
(he burned his card or something after "strikes back" and he was fined for not having the director's name before the narrative crawl. Neither he or the director wanted it, but rules is rules.
God it scares me that I know this. (on the plus side, I can't NAME the director without looking to imdb. And I won't).
parallels in the titles (Score:5, Interesting)
ANH and TPM are both things.
AOTC and ESB are both things in action.
ROTJ and Birth of the Empire are both events.
I thinks its funny that the rumor sites never caught onto this parallel, especially since George has been so into creating parallels with the first three movies.
Overzealous "lava surfing comments" (Score:5, Interesting)
#1 This is the "British Tabloid, The Sun." Tabloid! Hello, McFly? Are you all really giving that much weight to everything that rag says? Oh, I'm sorry, this is slashdot, my bad.
#2 The article quotes: The Hollywood source said: "Anakin and Obi-Wan fight on platforms on the lava. They control these like surfboards." Sounds like its poorly described. I read that as "controlled with the feet." This is a Tabloid so getting any more detailed than "like surfboards" will bore their readers. This is just sneak peak bullshit designed to get people reading and worked up.
#3 If its described badly, don't can the scene until you've seen it. THEN can it. Have the friggin proof right in front of you. Oh, I'm sorry, this is slashdot, my bad.
#4 Why hasn't anyone complained about the physics of the lava sequence? Now, near the surface, lava is pretty hot and shouldn't be messed with, but you could probably put things on it or hover over it a few feet and not get burnt. But if this is an epic battle, I'm thinking "fires of Mordor" here, deep in the earth or in a volcano. That's friggin HOT. Even if they aren't touching it, the platform should probably melt, or their feet catch fire and/or melt from the sheer heat just above it. Has anyone bothered to analyze this? And, I'm sorry, but if Anakin were to fall into the lava... instant crispy Jedi. None of this horribly scarred nonsense. Who cares if its not "geeky cool" or "artistically cool." Lets can the stupid physics like we used to around here!
#5 Several other sources of Star Wars history cite that in the epic battle between the two, it was acid, not lava. Not that I think Lucas would actually bother to try to keep the timeline consistent, but hell, that actually sounds more realistic and no less cooler than the lava. Can we go back to this please?
Better title (Score:2, Interesting)
Star Wars has a plot? (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, if they were surfing on lava using JarJar as a surfboard, I might be eager to watch :)
Uh (Score:3, Interesting)
You're reading too much into it. I doubt George Lucas sat down and said, "Hmm, how can I tie these titles in so that they are events, actions, or things?" He was too busy thinking lava planets, water-core planets, and city planets were cool ideas.
"Hmm, I need a swamp...I know! A swamp planet! Dagobah it is!"
"I need Ani to fall into lava...I'll just have to create a lava planet! Get ILM on the phone!"
About the DVD's of the originals..... (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm wondering who here plans on purchasing the SE trilogy DVD set and then re-authoring it BACK to the original?
I'm figuring if you pirate a copy of Star Wars LD rip it's not so bad if you actually own a copy of the SE's (unfortunately)
Also some people (god I hope so) with talent might be able to make a really really nice version of the movie using the SE versions and the LD and some kind of software to clean up a good non SE edition.
So, does anyone here (perhaps a Star Wars guru) know of the changes are ALL ADITIONS to the SE's and how feasable it would be to fix them back to their original form, maintiaining the high quality of the clean up (that we've been lead to beleive will occur to the SE's) ???
I'd _Really_ like 5.1 in the original trilogy.......
Re:Surfing (Score:3, Interesting)
On 2001, HAL, and self-awareness (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, I disagree. Of course there's lots of fodder for disagreement here since Kubrick intentionally left so much of the story open to personal interpretation by focusing on symbolic imagery over dialogue and plot. However, I think you really miss the point of HAL and why he "goes insane" by killing the crew. Of course, you've read the books, which (IMO) explains too much and misses Kubrick's point. Realize that this was a collaboration between Clarke and Kubrick, and they definitely had differing ideas about the main themes of the story.
2001 starts off with aliens, personified by the black monolith, changing pre-cognitive apes (intended to be australopithecus) who were on the road to extinction into our semi-cognitive tool bearing forefathers. The apes were being out competed for access to water by another local ape tribe; they were being predated upon by leopards; local wart-hogs had no fear of them as they both competed for shrubs, grass, and berries. The result was that the first tool the apes learned to control was used to kill. Thus, a pattern begins where the beginnings of consciousness and self awareness lead to tool bearing for murder toward self-preservation.
As the bone turns to a ship in the segue from "The Dawn Of Man" section the first personal tool we see is of Heywood Floyd's pen floating in the corridor of the space shuttle. This signifies a shift in cognition and self awareness from tools for killing to tools for communication and peaceful endeavors. Yet, just as the apes before were nearing extinction because they were incapable of living in that environment, so were humans completely out of their element when surrounded by technology. Notice the 10 point instructions on using a zero-G toilet. Or the lies surrounding the find by the american moonbase purporting a non-existent epidemic in order to protect their find of the second monolith (which implies continuing tribalism and the potential for warfare throughout human society).
Then in Third section during the trip on Discovery to Jupiter, we see that the interactions between humans are as inhuman as can be. Bowman and Poole ignore each other as they eat. Poole has his birthday and watches the transmission from his family with the primary concern being whether his paycheck shows a recent raise. He orders HAL to raise and lower his bed; HAL complies without comment. In all of the interactions between humans there is a real sense of emotional self control in furtherance of misrepresenting emotional states, which HAL never quite understands. Bowman and Poole arrange to 'look at a broken transmitter' in the pod in order to get out of earshot from HAL, after learning that he made a mistake regarding the failure of the AE-35 unit. Then HAL watches them through the pod window and reads their lips as they discuss disconnecting him if he turns out to have erred.
And here is the critical point: When HAL learns of his fate his first action as a self-aware creature is to kill in self-preservation. Just as the aliens lifted those pre-cognitive humans into self-awareness and offered them self-preservation through tools for killing, so does HAL show his "birth" into self awareness by killing the crew to save himself. It was an example of humans taking on the goals of the aliens by creating machine intelligence of their own. The aliens understood what the apes would do with self-awareness and a bone, but the humans had no idea that once they created a self-aware creature, it would act of its own accord. Earlier in the film Bowman is asked by a reporter if HAL really felt what he was programmed to feel, and Bowman replies that he doesn't think anyone could know the answer to that question. Well, HAL's actions show that he was a thinking feeling being, because he acted out of self-preservation rather than for the good of the m
Probably because they are not as retarded as you. (Score:5, Interesting)
You don't seem to have much of a sense of grammar, I have to say. Not that I'm a grammar Nazi, but I do know a little bit about speech. The subject in "Attack of the Clones" is the attack, not the clones, while the subject of "The Empire Strikes Back" is the empire itself, so there isn't really much of a parallel in the titles, beyond the parallelism in all of the titles.
Not to mention, your analysis is pretty week, because what you call "things in action" are both events and actions. An attack is an event. And so is a "strike", (certainly a military strike, which is what we are talking about).
And of course, all "events" are also "things". I mean, obviously a "new hope" or a "phantom menace" are not anymore corporeal things then events like a "strike", a "birth", a "return" or an "attack".
Finally, you can take any set of pairs and come up with some kind of crazy-ass meaning. For example:
"The Birth of the Empire" and "A new hope",
both are about beginnings.
"The Phantom Menace" and "The Empire Strikes Back" both deal with bad things happening. (The Empire, which is evil, doing something. And something being a menace, and a phantom menace at that As opposed to ANH, or RotJ, which are good, and AotC which is neutral)
"Attack of the Clones" and "Return of the Jedi"
Both "verb of the noun" form.
My point isn't that there is some clear pattern, just that you can draw parallels between just about everything if you really try.
I got news for you ... (Score:4, Interesting)
All these modern titles are run through focus groups. They're chosen based on marketing.
Basically, the hamsters in the focus rooms hit the pedal more times when "Birth of an Empire" was read.
I have one BIG reservation about the title. I think they should have done a focus group against the NAACP to see what they thought. "Birth of a Nation" is cited as the most racist, provocative film in American history. The titles are eerily similiar.
I would have chosen something like "Fall of the Jedi", to mirror "Return of the Jedi".
Others I am thinking up now.
"Empire Rising"
"Rebel Dawn"
"The Lost Hope"
"Fall of Darkness"
"Sith Ascension"
"The Path Chosen"
"Lost Futures"
"Tyrrany"
"Deception"
"The Dark Appretice"
"The Black Dawn"
"Vader"
"Darth Ascension"
The Good and Bad (Score:5, Interesting)
Good - The overall plot of Palpatine's manipulations to gain control of the Republican.
Bad - It's possibly *too* subtle. Even at the end, one of my friends *still* didn't realize he was Darth Sidious.
Good - Ewan McGreggor and Liam Neeson.
Bad - Everything about Anakin and JAR JAR.
Bad - Having R2D2 and C3PO be present.
Bad - Midichlorines.
Bad - The trade alliance droids.
Bad - Pretty much all the dialogue.
Bad - Everything related to Jar Jar's people and their battle later on.
Bad - A democraticly elected MONARCH? Come on.
Bad - Anakin blowing up the droid control ship.
Good - Darth Maul.
Bad - He's hardly in it.
Episode 2:
Good - Nearly everything in the Obi-Wan side of things.
Good - Dooku's conversation with Obi-Wan where he portrays himself as a rebel against the insidious dark side which is taking over the empire and needs Obi-Wan's help.
Bad - Obi-Wan automagically deciding he's evil.
Bad - EVERYTHING on the Anakin/Padme side of things. The romance is laughably bad.
Good - Yoda. (I'm in the minority)
Good - Obi-Wan.
Bad - Anakin.
Bad - Droids vs clones = Big battles where no one 'real' gets hurt. Hundreds die and I couldn't give a shit. Compare this to ANH where a handful of nearly anonymous pilots die, but we watch them scream in their cockpits. WE CARE as a result.
Good - Jar Jar dooms the Republic.
Bad - Pretty much everything on the trade federation planet.
Bad - The dialogue... AGAIN.
Basically, the foundations for good movies are there. That's what's so frustrating. We could've had really good movies, but Lucas shovelled shit on top of them in the form of pandering to developmentally disabled two-year-olds and TOYS R US.
Re:On 2001, HAL, and self-awareness (Score:3, Interesting)
FWIW, you may want to read the other two books. I'm not going to say you'll like them; I'm not even sure I did (especially the "Vault" at the end of the last book). But one of the themes addressed in the 4th book is whether the aliens had to make people so inherently mean, or if they were truly experimenting and it was a mistake.
Re:"Surfboards?" (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm personally worried about the names. You know, in the first two prequels, a lot of names sound... strange in Brazilian Portuguese. For example, "Amidala" sounds like portuguese for "tonsil". "Panaka" sounds exactly like portuguese to "dork". "Zaifo Dias" sounds exactly like portuguese to "Zai-fuck", and "Dooku" is something in the line "I give my ass off".
These are all true - names had to be changed in the subtitled and dubbed versions. I really think that the person in charge of naming characters knows Portuguese. I can only expect what's coming next.
Re:Veteran Star Wars Fans: What's wrong with I &am (Score:3, Interesting)
More Offtopic Grammar Whining (Score:2, Interesting)
Mario Cuomo used to use "her" as the common gender (eg: when the next governor is elected, I hope fortune will smile upon her.") I think that is more inclusive than "his" and not as confusing as "their".
Of course, _real_ geeks use Spivak Pronouns [wikipedia.org]. I hope each prickly grammarian learns them as if eir life depended on it.