Microsoft, Sony Announce iPod Competitors 610
Pfhreak writes "According to the Denver Post -- Las Vegas section, a little over halfway down the page -- Microsoft will begin selling a $50 music player that will 'look and feel as good as the iPod' later this year. Yusuf Mehdi, a Microsoft VP, is quoted as saying that the player will give customers more choices than Apple."
In related news, Tetsugaku-San writes "The Register has the scoop on Sony's new portable audio/visual playback device. Impressively it plays MPEG2, MPEG4, BMP, GIF, PNG, TIFF and MP3 (finally they got the message Apple was gonna whoop em!) straight out of the box. Not as good battery life as I'd like to see, but real world tests remain to be seen."
Prediction ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Realistically (Score:5, Interesting)
However, even Dell's digital jukeboxes [dell.com] start at $200, and beating Dell pricewise is something out of ordinary (possible, but few have done it).
Nice, but where's one with OGG Vorbis support? (Score:2, Interesting)
So, does anyone know of another similar player, that does both MPEG4 (or compatible, like XVid) and OGG Vorbis?
ip-p-p-p-pPod! (Score:4, Interesting)
I can just see MS coming out with something the size of an ipod, but with a tiny flash memory instead of a hard drive. And if MS markets it hard enough and makes it ubiquitous enough, the uninformed consumers will just slurp it up and think they're getting a huge bargin (despite there having been flash players that cheap for a long time).
on Microsoft product announcements... (Score:2, Interesting)
Their inability to get the gist of things they copy except for the superfical (i.e., I'm sure the MP3 Player will be a small white box) reminds me of the kid in school looking over my shoulder during a math test... copying all my answers onto his paper including my answer for the question "Name:"
There's More to Beating the iPod than the iPod (Score:2, Interesting)
While yes, existing portables have their own merits, very few of them are supported by an application like Winamp that can flawlessly sync my audio files (and ratings and playcounts) from my media folders to my iPod, or reverse-syncs my iPod so that my media folders match up with what's on my iPod. It'll have to beat Winamp's intuitive artist/album views, ipod-media library integration, mp3 transcoding, and other features...
Winamp and the iPod "just work."
The benefits of these devices (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, for $300 you can get 15Gb of storage on the low-end iPod. For $500 you can get $40Gb of storage on the high-end iPod.
The iPod/iTunes combo has become the core of my audio system. I don't have a boom box or home stereo system. I hook my iPod into my stereo TV when I want to listen to tunes downstairs. When I want to listen to tunes upstairs, I listen to the tunes through my computer's speakers. When I'm driving in the car, I plug in my tape deck adapter and go.
When I go for a run or go to work out, I take my iPod and have all of my tunes with me. So in that sense it's not just "a Walkman that doesn't need CDs or tapes." A CD Walkman is fine if I just want to listen to whatever CDs I happen to have with me at the time. But when I'm mobile, the last thing I want to do is decide which tunes I think I'll want to listen to at some point in the future. I want the whole range of my music library available.
I'm not rich. Not even close. I like my music a lot, but I'm not the music freak I was when I was in my teens. All the same, the iPod has really changed my listening habits quite a bit. It allows me to listen to a broader range of my own music than I otherwise would, lets me listen to music pretty much anywhere, and eliminates the need to haul around discs or tapes wherever I go.
Prices will doubtless drop on these devices as they become commoditized. Someday they'll drop to a price that will be acceptable to you. In the mean time, the investment in my iPod has more than justified the cost several times over for me (and for my non-technophile wife, who is an iPod addict as well).
apple may spin off iPod (Score:3, Interesting)
iPod and UFS (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm a 3rd year student at Harvard Law, and as part of my business law course work, we have to put together a case against a corporation. I am a keen FSF and GNU/Linux advocate, so I started an investigation into the iPod, hoping to break their case against playfair.
We're all aware that Apple uses BSD licensed code extensively in their Mac OSX operating system. What we don't know is that the file system that the iPod uses is UFS, a file system that Linux can read. How did I discover this? I removed the hard drive out of my iPod, hooked it up to my IDE controller, and typed
It is clear that the iPod is using a Linux file system. My question is this:
I guess the only way to tell is to get the code out of the firmware, but that is a bit beyond my realm of expertise.
Does anybody care to pull apart their iPod and investigate this for me? If so, please respond with your findings to this comment and I'll build it into my report.
Thanks in advance
Loss Leader (Score:4, Interesting)
I would suspect that with a $50 pricetag, Micro$oft is losing some amount of money per unit. They want to make the money on the music sales. Like razors or cameras - make money on the blades/film.
MS's sales tactics scare the hell out of me. (Score:3, Interesting)
MS is going to shoot for long term profits from WM licenses. They are going to try to squish competition, and after that is done, they're going to raise licensing rates... which will make music more expensive.
I'm all for competition. However MS's concept of "competition" is the exact same as Walmart's. Slash prices, kill competitors, raise rates, and lower product/service quality.
I'm sure Apple knew this was going to happen. These are typical Microsoft actions. It'll be interesting to see how they're going to innovate their way out of this predicament... they certainly don't have the money to counteract stuff like this.
What about the things that matter? (Score:3, Interesting)
Well thats great, but id personally prefer a player that sounds as good, and performs as well as the iPod rather than one that "looks and feels" like one. With a 50quid price tag it will either be horrendously locked in (so that they can make money back from the songs) or the capacity will be so small that it becomes inconvient for people with large collections.
And i'd be very surprised if the "Gives more choice to consumers" part means anything more than WMA support, I would be prepared to place money on the fact that flac and ogg support are not included in that "more choice" line up...
However
nick
Re:Prediction ... (Score:3, Interesting)
If the zealots are trying to argue that the iPod was the first anything, they are plain wrong. Apple's goal is to make it the best, not the first.
The company's implementation of a technology often leads others to imitate it, in an attempt to reproduce the success.
Re:drunken moderation (Score:3, Interesting)
Like I said. I've got maybe twenty CD. Every ogg and mp3 I own fits on two CD that I play with the rio MP3 CD player I bought 2 years ago for $60.
The only complaint I have with it is battery life sucks. Its too big to fit in my shirt pocket and once every 5 days or so I have to swap out the CD. and the navigation is archaic, which isn't much of a probaly because I've basically memeorized the playlists.
If Apple make a 1GB iPod mini and sells it for $100. I'd snatch it up. Other than that I'll wait.
Re:Is there any way (Score:5, Interesting)
Way to go MS. Aim low."
Oh right. Here's what the reverse would be:
"Um, M$, this is nothing like the elegance of the iPod. Way to go MS, blow it again."
Re:Is there any way (Score:5, Interesting)
The quote about the $50 players was left out, but it does still contain the 'look and feel' quote, and he is obviously referring to third-party players that will be launched alongside a new microsoft music download service.
What kind of hard drive could a manufacturer possibly put in a player for less than $50 - none, maybe flash 128/256 - but that's already on the market, and has been for some time. Anyway, I choose to believe this to be just more Microsoft FUD until I see such a $50 iPod killer.
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:No .ogg, no sale. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:No .ogg, no sale. (Score:5, Interesting)
Operator: And our next question we'll take is from Arik Hesseldahl with Forbes.com.
Arik Hesseldahl: Hi, Steve. Always concerned about -- not concerned, I guess, but wondering -- one of the previous questions was about revenue. I'm wondering if iTunes has reached the break even point yet.
Steve Jobs: Yes. The iTunes music store had a small profit this past quarter.
Arik Hesseldahl: Had a small profit. OK. Any interest whatsoever, since in the open source OGG Vorbis format?
Steve Jobs: We're certainly not getting any requests from customers for it.
Arik Hesseldahl: OK.
Source: Conference call, April 29, 2004. [macobserver.com]
Re:Prediction ... (Score:5, Interesting)
You're assuming it will even play MP3s.
If they are pricing it at $50, they have to somehow make a profit on the songs; ie: at this price, I'd imagine they'd force everyone to use their online music store to buy music---and the player won't play anything else.
Re:Loss Leader (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, XBox games are still selling pretty well. So what if 10% of the users break their security.
Convergence (Score:2, Interesting)
In my opinion (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft has been really, really harping on this "choice" thing, by which they mean "iTMS purchases can only be played on the iPod". Meanwhile they're trying to push music player carriers to support WMA. At the moment WMA is still just an also-ran in this space but if this keeps happening that could change. Apple needs to get FairPlay support into everyone's hands in order to make AAC the new standard so that WMA doesn't grab that spot...
Re:Is there any way (Score:3, Interesting)
Crossplatform games often look better on Xbox, but very seldom play better, often I think the PS2 version plays best. It probably comes down to what you are used to, but I find the PS2 version controls better in almost every case. Even after reducing the Xbox controller to a reasonable size it is still the worst designed of the current generation console controllers.
My opinion of console game quality in general is slipping, I own all three current generation consoles, yet mostly purchase GBA and PC games.
Re:Is video really needed? (Score:2, Interesting)
Then I can walk over to a mates place, plug it in and watch a movie. Take it to grandma's, plug it in, and show her what the kids did on the weekend.
Maybe even plug it in someplace and *record* some video. That, however, would have mixed apeal I feel. It's probably much better to handle all the video side on a PC and focus on providing intuitive playback, great battery life and smaller size on the portable unit.
That would be awesome.
PS: It would probably still have a screen, just a simple monochrome number for selecting tracks and video clips.
Re:Is there any way (Score:2, Interesting)
--HC,
Re:In my opinion (Score:2, Interesting)
I couldn't agree more. Particularly in the $50-$150 (or 64MB-512MB) market where the margins are too small for them to be bothered producing their own player. Licensing FairPlay to a few producers of low end flash-based players would take the wind out of MS's Choice! argument and help prevent WMA from becoming a de facto standard.
They don't call it the "entry level" market for nothing. For many people their first digital music player will be a device in this category and it's in Apple's interest to have them buying AACs from iTMS and not building a collection of DRMd WMAs. Even if they forfeit the hardware profit the first time around, at least iPod and iPod Mini will be viable trade up options next time.
Re:Is there any way (Score:1, Interesting)
Although the small size of the iPod does add value, it's not the hard drive which makes the difference. Many 10Gb+ players use the same 1.8" hard drives as the iPod. That includes the iRiver iHP line, the Philips HDD1?0 line, the RCA Lyra line, the Samsung YH-9?0 line, the Dell DJ, and the Rio Karma. I does not include the Creative Nomad line, the Pogo Ripdrive line, and probably not the Archos or Neuros products. The fact that none of the players with 1.8" drives is smaller (except possibly the upcoming Samsung YH-920) is due to good engineering on Apple's part. And possibly the small battery (which is why "form" shouldn't be seens as a single item -- the iRiver players win on price and function while being only a tiny bit bigger than the iPod, but they have much longer battery life).
Likewise, someone already pointed out that the Muvo2 uses a 1" drive similar to that in the iPod mini. So will the upcoming Samsung YH-820, if I recall correctly.
Re:Loss Leader (Score:3, Interesting)
ie: Eventhough many smart folks won't buy it, there are plenty of people who'll find the $50 price attractive (even if it comes with a TON of restrictions).
Also when you consider a `player that can play anything for $250' or a `restricted one for $50' the decision is heavily weighted towards the $50 purchase.