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Music Media The Almighty Buck

Copy-protected CD Tops U.S. Charts 895

Joey Patterson writes "CNET is reporting that Velvet Revolver's new album, 'Contraband', which is protected with SunnComm's anti-copying technology, has topped the U.S. album charts. The SunnComm and BMG execs quoted in the article say that they're pleased with the apparent consumer acceptance of the anti-piracy technology, but they have been hearing questions about how people can get the copy-blocked songs from the CD onto an iPod."
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Copy-protected CD Tops U.S. Charts

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  • by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:37AM (#9459958) Journal
    It's quite probably just a case where not many people have discovered that they've been screwed-over just yet...

    The anger will come soon...
  • funny (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ericdano ( 113424 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:37AM (#9459959) Homepage
    Funny, I thought I saw this on BitTorrent already.....
  • Oops! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LocoSpitz ( 175100 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:37AM (#9459962)
    They seem to have confused acceptance with ignorance.
  • Re:But.. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by wacko1138 ( 730161 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:39AM (#9459976) Homepage
    Yeah, to really prove how much people prefer copy-protected CDs they should sell two versions, one with and one without and then they can show the world that people prefer the ease of just buying multiple copies.
  • by Snowspinner ( 627098 ) * <`ude.lfu' `ta' `dnaslihp'> on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:40AM (#9459981) Homepage
    Go to iTunes music store.

    Buy album.

    Put on iPod.

    On a less pithy note, would it be that hard for EMI to make an agreement with Apple such that, if you have the CD in the drive, you can buy the iTunes version for free? Or you could always package the album with a certificate code that can be used to buy the album for free on iTunes. Both of those seem like relatively easy solutions.

    And, finally, on an inquisitive note, does this software also install on OS X? Or is this a Windows only gimping?
  • by AmigaAvenger ( 210519 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:40AM (#9459982) Journal
    A quick search on sharazea shows the entire album is easily downloadable. when will the record companies realize that if only one person can convert it to an mp3, it will become available on every sharing network out there.

    so basically, if you can listen to it, it will be on p2p, get used to that RIAA!!!

  • Not surprising... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by big_groo ( 237634 ) <groovis AT gmail DOT com> on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:43AM (#9460004) Homepage
    This album by Velvet Revolver is actually a much anticapated album -- former members of GNR and the Stone Temple Pilots. Not really surprising that it's #1. People don't really care that the album is copy protected.

    Hell, I'll go buy this one. These guys make good music. Plain and simple. Go pimp your 'the people want copy protection' somewhere else. People want decent music. This band delivers.

  • Put it on an iPod? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by betasaur ( 12453 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:43AM (#9460007)
    Uh, buy it on iTunes for $9.99?
  • Great quotes... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mrpuffypants ( 444598 ) <mrpuffypants@gm a i l . c om> on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:45AM (#9460020)
    As in earlier tests by BMG and SunnComm, the copy protection on the Velvet Revolver disc can be simply disabled by pushing the "Shift" key on a computer while the CD is loading, which blocks the SunnComm software from being installed. The companies say they have long been aware of the work-around but that they were not trying to create an unhackable protection.

    If the point is to make people unable to rip the music and you allow a backdoor 'knowingly' then why even bother in the first place?

    "We are actively working with Apple to provide a long-term solution to this issue," a posting on SunnComm's Web site reads. "We encourage you to provide feedback to Apple, requesting they implement a solution that will enable the iPod to support other secure music formats."

    Dear Apple,

    Please support the latest copy-protection scheme from my favourite recording label, BMG and their current subsidiary, SunComm. Also, please compile in support for the different methods for every single other copy protection scheme espoused by every other label on every other album at Best Buy.

    Also, please be prepared to update these codecs as the record labels see fit or the iPod and iTunes may no longer be compatible in an effort to keep ahead of nefarious CD pirates.

    Also, please CC: this message to anybody else you know that makes CD player apps (Nullsoft, Microsoft, Roxio, Sony, etc, etc ,etc).

    Finally, please forget about that old 'Redbook' standard for CDs. That is old and should be cast off upon a pile of 8-Tracks, Divx discs, and CSS.

    Thanks for your time.

    Love, Tom
  • Re:right... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by halowolf ( 692775 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:45AM (#9460025)
    Such as pressing the Shift Key... But I won't say that, that was said in the article...

    What amused me was this line "The companies say they have long been aware of the work-around but that they were not trying to create an unhackable protection."

    I suppose that if they only stop the lowest common denominator from doing the unauthorized copying its good enough for them.

    However the handling of the iPod issue leaves something to be desired...

  • by SnprBoB86 ( 576143 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:47AM (#9460039) Homepage
    You can't make up the fact that the album in #1 right now, but is the recording industry saying "if people did not accept the copy protection then the sales would be lower"? Did it ever occur to them that maybe it is just a really good album and that the people buying it are people who don't steal music anyways?

    From what I understand, most people who used to buy CDs from before Mp3s were popular STILL DO. Sales are up aren't they? I personally never used to buy CDs. I would just listen to the radio. Mp3s are convienient because they are commercial free and I can play DJ, but if they didn't exist I would be listening to the radio and not buying albums. Most people I speak to feel the same way.
  • by DavittJPotter ( 160113 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:47AM (#9460043) Homepage Journal
    And that's why this shit will succeed. "Oh, well, today this cause doesn't jive with my personal views, so never mind."

    I was a huge GnR fan back in the day, as well as STP. I won't be buying this album, however, as it's not a REAL CD by the established standard.

    As much as I'd like to have all the songs, if more of us 'drew the line' somewhere, we'd have our voices heard.

    Acquiescing to the RIAA just reinforces their silly little business model.
  • Re:SunnComm (Score:3, Insightful)

    by keefey ( 571438 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:49AM (#9460059)
    The shift-key thing stops auto-play on Windows machines, which is how he got past it. If he hadn't, it comes up with a message saying "an upgrade needs to be installed" (because it's illegal to install software automatically without the user knowing). Pressing cancel to this also bypasses the "protection".

    The company in question has moved onto a slightly more complicated version, which requires a physical crack for consecutive reads, but it's still very simple to break.
  • by bennomatic ( 691188 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:55AM (#9460114) Homepage
    Yep, it's right there on the iTMS. I can't say that the music excites me, though.

    I wonder if any of the labels have asked Apple *not* to provide samples of all the songs on a given album. I mean, I listened to a couple of these songs' snippets, and, gee, it's really nothing to write home about. I wonder how many of the people who have bought the physical CD got a chance to listen to it, and how many people who didn't listen to it were disappointed when they got it home...

  • by Thiago Ize ( 730287 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:55AM (#9460118)
    The cost of this, of course, is that your CDs are less resistant to scratches
    Sounds like a great idea! Now the RIAA not only has cured the world of evil piracy, but the sale of CDs has trippled as everyone now has to purchase the same CD every 3 months to replace their scratched CDs! Brilliant!
  • Re:Oops! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by The Famous Brett Wat ( 12688 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:56AM (#9460123) Homepage Journal
    They seem to have confused acceptance with ignorance.

    One will do as well as the other, so far as they are concerned.

  • by cocoa moe ( 530541 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:59AM (#9460141)
    Don't buy the CD from the store, but go straight to the iTunes-MusicStore the album is there. (As you might probably know: Now you can listen to it on your iPod or burn a CD or listen to it on all your five computers.) http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/ viewAlbum?playlistId=14131660 Oh and yes, it's also available in the european stores.
  • Re:But.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by commodoresloat ( 172735 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:01AM (#9460149)
    That doesn't answer the question; how many people actually read that sticker or have any idea what it means?
  • by AtomicBomb ( 173897 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:02AM (#9460157) Homepage
    If you don't care about the deliberate corruption of the well established CD standard. That's your choice.

    But, if you really like the music/the band but hate the protection, then you should buy two copies. Buy one and return one. The music company will realise something wrong if the customers can boast the return rate somehow to double-digit.

  • by mindstrm ( 20013 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:05AM (#9460165)
    If it actually installs software without asking, they deserve some kind of large lawsuit.. though I'm not sure what the damages would be... probably something similar to what we might charge virus writers with?

    I bought an audio CD, and I have a fair expectation of what that means. It does NOT mean somthing that installs software silently and without asking on my pc.

  • by commodoresloat ( 172735 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:07AM (#9460178)
    agreement with Apple such that, if you have the CD in the drive, you can buy the iTunes version for free?

    Great idea! This will be wonderful, especially after somebody releases a hack that makes iTunes think you have a particular CD in the drive...

  • by miracle69 ( 34841 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:07AM (#9460183)
    So by messing with the scratch protection algorithms in most CD players, it makes the CD less durable.

    Doesn't this increase the consumer's need to rip it immediately?
  • Re:funny (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mkro ( 644055 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:14AM (#9460226)
    Sure, there will always be PIRATES out there that can get it. This protection is just to train the general population to know how far their right to use the products goes.
  • by XavierItzmann ( 687234 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:15AM (#9460228)
    iTunes AAC (mpeg 4)
    - burn it unlimited times to unlimited CD's
    - back it up to HD, to CD, to DVD, to floppy, if you must
    - copy it to unlimited iPod's
    - copy it to unlimited PCs, play it on up to 5 simultaneously
    - stream it to up to 5 machines from one Mac or PC
    - hook it wirelessly with lossless audio via optical connectors to your home stereo with Airport Express

    Copy-Protected Optical Media
    - play it in only one place, once at a time
    - scratch it once, lose it forever
    - repeat after me: it is not a CD if it is not Redbook


    So which one are you going to buy?



  • by Trillan ( 597339 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:15AM (#9460231) Homepage Journal

    I find it funny reading all these outraged posts about how the disc is not valid red book, etc, etc.

    The protection on this disc is very light, and will really only catch the casual user. If you know what you're doing, it's very easy to bypass.

    I find this protection a breath of fresh air. It is almost as if the publisher is saying "Here. If you know enough to bypass this, presumably you understand copyright law and won't swap files." No scheme will stop a dedicated cracker, so they offer one that doesn't even try. In fact, the publishers even acknowledge it isn't a very secure scheme. Yes, their trust is probably naive, but that's their problem not mine.

    See this article [princeton.edu] for a description of MediaMax.

  • by rudy_wayne ( 414635 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:16AM (#9460236)
    SunnComm rips off the record companies by selling them a copy protection scheme that doesn't actually work.

    The record gets passed around on all the file sharing networks and usenet newsgroups.

    This free advertising results in increased sales, driving the record to number 1.

    The pointy-haired bosses at the record company believe that the increased sales prove that the copy protection scheme is working and issue congratulatory press release.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:17AM (#9460245)
    I bought an audio CD, and I have a fair expectation of what that means. It does NOT mean somthing that installs software silently and without asking on my pc.

    Well said. It's quite sad that they seem to be getting away with this, and that the press isn't covering it from that point of view.
  • by 0racle ( 667029 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:17AM (#9460250)
    If I buy a CD and it plays in my CD player, I don't care if its copy protected or not, It will be accepted as long as it works as advertised.

    Its been said before but its valid every time, what seems important on Slashdot to the majority of people here isn't important to the majority of people in the real world.
  • by very ( 241808 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:22AM (#9460284) Journal
    I'll keep you posted, I have yet to try it on the Linux box.

    Yes, I listen to Guns N' Roses back in the late 80's and early 90's.

    I talked to Duff (the bass player) when he was working with John Taylor (Duran Duran), Steve Jones (The Sex Pistols), and Matt Sorrum on Neurotic Outsiders album.

    Yes I also listen to Stone Temple Pilot.

    Yes, I've heard of Wasted Youth

    But I am not really anticipating anything of Velvet Revolver.

    The main reason I bought Velvet Revolver CD is because it was previously reported that the CD would be Copy Protected. I just want to find out if I still can rip them.

    As for 200,000+ other people, they love this so called "supergroup"

    Well, I ripped the whole CD on my Mac with no problems at all.

    Once again, I have yet to try it on the Linux OS.
    I'll find out about it tomorrow.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:25AM (#9460298)
    Simple. They want to introduce it in a very "light" fashion so consumers will get used to it, and once consumers get used to it they will put more and more harder to break/bypass copy protection on it. Then you know what? Consumers probably wont care at that point. Think of it how the government works when it introduces controversial bills that impede your freedoms like the dmca, patriot act, etc. They first introduce a "lighter" bill and pass it, then you have many more ( *cough republicans* :) people introducing harsher bills (aka patriot act II). Its mearly a control tactic because generally you accept the things the way they are once it has been around for awhile... It is really pathetic that they are even attempting this. Sadly enough it may actually work...
  • by Doppler00 ( 534739 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:27AM (#9460310) Homepage Journal
    So are you suggesting after someone purchases an audio CD they should then have to purchase it again online for their iPod? Great! Let's buy everything twice.
  • by orthogonal ( 588627 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:33AM (#9460344) Journal
    The anger will come soon...

    I hope you're right.

    But I doubt it. Meaning no disrespect to anyone by my use of dialect, I think it's more a case of "Oh massa, dem new chains is so shiny, I's be heppy to fassin dem ons me an' git right in yo boat, suh".

    The difference, of course, is that Africans, proud of their freedoms, didn't line up willingly to be slaves in hopes of wearing shiny bonds -- but we modern Americans have become so neglectful of our liberties that we'll give them up for the next boy band's CD or the facile assurance that the next intrusive government surveillance program really will finally guarantee our safety.

    Like Esau in the Bible, we willingly give up our birthright of liberty for a mess of pottage -- for Consumerism's shiny trinkets and the bland assurances of the Fascists who whip up our fears and then promise to protect us from our freedoms.

    If this CD stays at the top of the charts, expect all new CDs to be copy-protected -- but worse than the copy-protection will be that we will take for granted that copy-protection legitimately should be there. The Corporation's triumph isn't in getting you to buy a copy-protected CD or a particular kind of DRM; it's in getting you to accept as natural and legitimate and right that by buying a CD or a shrink-wrapped software title you now must forever afterward ask the permission of the seller to use what you have honestly purchased, that you must acquiesce to the seller forever setting the rules and conditions under which you can use what you have bought.

    In short, you've been changed from a purchaser of a good to a renter of a license and have consented to be taxed and regulated in perpetuity for the privilege of renting.

    Thomas Jefferson dreamt for his country a Republic of proudly independent freeholders, each man the owner of his Real Estate; George Washington, drawing on the Bible's prophet Micah, foresaw an America where "everyone shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree, and there shall be none to make him afraid". Instead we're turning into a rabble of peasants and share-croppers slaving for, and kowtowing to, the modern day Lords of Corporatism. And we put on our chains so willingly!
  • Re:Great quotes... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mkro ( 644055 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:35AM (#9460352)
    If the point is to make people unable to rip the music and you allow a backdoor 'knowingly' then why even bother in the first place?
    To draw a line in the sand. Right now, on many systems you can just insert a cd and hit "Rip". Holding shift is an active step ("Circumvention") to avoid it. They are trying to tell us what the consumer can expect to do with the products they buy. Makes it easier for people to accept the next generation DRM.
  • by Mr. Roadkill ( 731328 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:35AM (#9460353)
    The companies say they have long been aware of the work-around but that they were not trying to create an unhackable protection.

    Okay, I'm completely boggled now . . . what exactly are they're trying to accomplish?

    What they're after is the right to say that a copy-protected album has been a marketing success, and that the return rate on it has been low. People probably would have bought this one even if they had to give their firstborn to Satan, so that's the "marketing success" part taken care of. The "protection" used shouldn't upset conventional CD players either, so that's the "We shipped it with copy protection, and nobody doing anything we would consider legitimate had any problems" part all wrapped up. Sure, we know what they're doing, but John Q. Sixpack probably won't grasp that this is the thin end of the wedge until he gets a right reaming a few years down the track.And even then, he may just accept that that's how things are because that's how the record companies say they should be - after all, they'd just hate to have to sell you a different format for your portable and for home, and they'd think it tragic if you couldn't make a disposable copy for the car.
  • Re:But.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by kfg ( 145172 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:38AM (#9460364)
    RTFA. There is a sticker on the CD that its copy protected.

    Does the label bother to mention that it isn't actually a CD, or are they merely relying on consumer ignorance, such as that you display in your post in calling it such?

    Are the stores stocking it in their normal manner for CDs, instead of in a seperate section as they should? Not doing so could well be considered consumer fraud by the retailers, it might not be out of line to drop a line to sundry Attorney's General if such is the case.

    KFG
  • by Aqua OS X ( 458522 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:51AM (#9460407)
    Ya, folks have been able to rip this CD in OS X. Pop it in, load up iTunes, click import, done. :)

    But hey, could always buy this album online from the ITMS (and, possibly, sprinkle a bit of PlayFair on your download ;) )
  • by tweakt ( 325224 ) * on Friday June 18, 2004 @02:03AM (#9460446) Homepage
    The music is actually good. Whoah, crazy thought, I know.

    Next, they'll be claiming that the sales is actually due to the copy protection. My first instinct when reading this story was to download it and see if I liked it.

    Since it's selling, it must be worth buying. Hence more people download it, like it a lot, and buy it! Wow... what a concept.

    Oh, and the copy 'protection' doesn't work. Broken via any number of simple means no doubt, but the simple truth is, there are no less than FIVE torrents for the full albumn right now on my favorite tracker site.

    Hehe.. funny.

    Meanwhile, I've taken this whole issue a bit less seriously, especially when the there are more pressing issues to worry about going in the world today. Nobody is being killed for copyright violations (yet?).
  • by snyps ( 656162 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @02:08AM (#9460468)
    this is a rather bad idea (just hear me out)

    the whole purpose of this is to prevent people from transfering it to a digital format, by allowing for them to download for free from itunes defeats the purpose, but also it screws itunes over since it costs them bandwidth.

    belive me, i am as anti copy protection as anyone but this is not the answer.

    if you look at it the solution is that p2p does not actually harm sales and all we need to do is to prove this to the whore mongoring assholes (riaa and associates)
  • Re:right... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by orthogonal ( 588627 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @02:27AM (#9460543) Journal
    the music swapping types are bound to find a way around this one, im (sic) sure

    Yes, holding down the Shift key to prevent the DRM from being auto-played and auto-installed does the trick.

    And if you scroll down, you'll see literally dozens of comments from Slashdotters crowing about how easily they ripped this CD to MP3 or Ogg or ACC or whatever format suits them.

    And what that means is the RIAA has won this round.

    What do I mean by that? This CD is a trap, and everybody who is crowing about how easy it is to circumvent its copy-protection has fallen into the trap.

    The trap consists of two parts: one, as Mr. Roadkill (731328) explains here [slashdot.org], because circumvention is so easy there will not be any en masse returns of this CD. BMG will declare that the public doesn't mind copy-protection because there will be few complaints or returns, and its massive sales given the publicity BMG is giving to this release. And with that they've slipped in the thin edge of the wedge, begun accustomizing us to copy-protection.

    But more than just copy-protection: as The-Bus (138060) demonstrates by copying the entire CD EULA [slashdot.org], BMG will also
    • slip in DRM keys "personalized" to your computer and, to add insult to injury,
    • get you to agree to a license, for Christ's sake, in order to listen to music,
    • and agree to listen to the music only on a personal computer (and presumably not a work computer, and surely not an MP3 player) (EULA paragraph 1.1)
    • and agree that your right to use the "digital content" lapses if you lose the physical CD (EULA paragraph 1.2)
    • and agree as well to give up your right (EULA, paragraph 1.4) to make a back-up copy of purchased software.


    They're not just sipping in the DRM keys; they're slipping in a whole different legal interpretation in which to understand CDS, an interpretation that emphasizes licensing instead of purchasing.

    And that's just the first part of the trap.

    The second part of the trap is even more insidious: BMG has purposely used a trivially simple and already well known to be easily circumvented copy-protection in order to encourage you to circumvent it.

    Why would BMG do that? So they can point out all the happy, crowing, boasting circumventors to the Congress, call all the people holding down a Shift key "hackers" (indeed SunnCom's already said they don't expect this to be "unhackable"), and thus justify legislation to made DRM mandatory. "See what those hackers did, Senator? They hack our state-of-the-art copy-protection, those evil wizarsds! That's why we must make a hardware copyright bit mandatory on all new CD and CD-ROM players!"

    Every time you think you've scored a point by managing to rip this CD, all you've done is to further play yourself -- and you liberties -- into the hands of BMG and the RIAA. You're given them a precedents to point to and a spurious "threat" to whine to Congress about. Who's really winning here?
  • by Prof. Pi ( 199260 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @02:35AM (#9460577)
    So basically, they're relying on the computing monoculture, and also on the "hide everything from the user and keep him clueless" philosophy behind it.

    BTW, notice the deliberate manipulation here? They choose an album guaranteed to get high sales because the band is pieced together from two well-known bands, then claim the high sales proves copy-protection is acceptable to the consumers. (When probably it's just so feeble that it wasn't even noticed most of the time.)

  • You do have a point, but if it goes unnoticed for long enough, then when people finally realise that they can't rip their choons then they'll either not have the know-how to realise they've been screwed, or not really care.
    Sure, for /.ers such as we, DRM is A Bad Thing (tm) and I for one will try not to buy anything that impedes my free (and fair) use of products that I buy. However, if some joe off the street buys something and can't put it on his iPod, will he think, "I've but some copy-protected crap from a shitty corporation" or will he think "I've bought something that won't go on my iPod... perhaps I need to get Windows XP"
    I expect that for the most part, it will be the latter.

    Getting people to boycott anything is a pretty difficult thing - although it did work in bringing down apartheid. However, with apartheid, there was an alternative to African apples. There is no alternative to your favourite band, and most will not have the conviction to neglect their band and fight against DRM.

  • Re:right... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by hyc ( 241590 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @02:56AM (#9460634) Homepage Journal
    You're probably right, but if BMG can on the one hand claim that the CD had massive consumer acceptance, then they can't very credibly turn around and claim that piracy hurt their sales of this album, and so they can't credibly claim that hackers out there are a threat.

    But aside from that, I think your post is probably a good summary of how the RIAA sees things...
  • In a word: Fear (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gad_zuki! ( 70830 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @02:59AM (#9460642)
    >what exactly are they're trying to accomplish?

    This is just another shot across the bow. Ideally Joe and Jane consumer should be thinking thusly, "They sued all those people! Our CDs now have protection! Uninstall that damn eMule right now!"

    All the record companies have to do is get x amount of sympathy going and the P2P gravy train will go further underground. As Joe and Jane opt-out (perhaps they don't want to get sued or perhaps they're sick of 'subsidizing' those who don't pay by dealing with DRM) out of P2P there goes another node and a strict lesson to their kids, "I better not find any P2P software on there." And then this meme travels to the water cooler, "You believe this? I gotta use this stupid Sunncomm player because of all the thieves out there!"

    Then the average P2P enthusiast isn't seen as a harmless overzealous yet poor music fan, but as a criminal who is making your life hard. They then hate them and blame them for the reactions of the RIAA. Heck, they may even buy DRM on purpose so they don't get "stolen goods" on their computer or as a 'moral' action.

    In other words they want you to understand that they're serious about copy protection infringement and want you to feel bad about it. Once you sympathize with them, they win.

    I'll let the reader decide whether its best to let them win or not.
  • by erroneus ( 253617 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @03:02AM (#9460666) Homepage
    Holy hell!!!

    Are you going to tell me that I have to get rid of my keyboard because it has a SHIFT key on it?! After all, according to the DMCA, it's a circumvention device and is therefore illegal!!! oh well...i guess i better get used to not having a shift key...the other day i realized that the caps-lock was no longer useful since i don't write in cobol. i guess that was premature since now i can't have a shift key... bastards11111111
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 18, 2004 @03:14AM (#9460700)
    They are trying to slowly shift in copy-protection.

    First they start with high-sale cds, then once more and more cd's are becoming copy-protected because theres a "workaround", its becoming more accepted in the industry and the general public at large is unaware, they change to a harder to hack format, labelling it as an upgrade.

    They firstly have to prove "customer acceptance" and thats where a this very basic and easily surpassed protection comes in to play.

    I would venture it will also be written on new band contracts someday that you agree to release your songs only on copy-protection cds. If it hasn't already started.
  • by HuguesT ( 84078 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @03:17AM (#9460711)
    In true civil desobedience fashion, the proper way to make decision makers understand that they are wasting their time is to:

    1- purchase the CD
    2- Optional: rip & copy it
    3- return it and get a refund because it doesn't play on your equipment.

    (2) is optional. The proper and law-abiding way is to not rip that CD.

    If the return rate goes to around 10% or so I think the message will be pretty clear.
  • by silentbozo ( 542534 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @03:22AM (#9460731) Journal
    Should it really be necessary for each generation to fight the battle for democracy?

    Two quotes:

    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

    "The tree of liberty must from time to time be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots."

    Both are quotes from Thomas Jefferson.
  • by Dejitaru Neko ( 771563 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @03:29AM (#9460751)
    And what about those of us who don't want the undesirable degradation in quality from going digital -> analog -> digital?
  • by oacis ( 212298 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @03:31AM (#9460757)
    What really SHITS me is that the parent comment is plagiarised word for word from here:

    http://cfdr.eu.org/issues/cd/

    without attribution to the original author (who incidentally is 'Jim Peters'), then modded up to be 'Interesting'.

    Perhaps there should be a PLAGIARISED moderation section, with a link to the original article.

    Whenever the topic of Music and CDs the natural progression of the discussion eventually leads to a few posts of fair use, yet this poster has not used 'fair use' with the copying of the text (almost ironic).

  • by stor ( 146442 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @03:31AM (#9460762)
    Okay, I'm completely boggled now . . . what exactly are they're trying to accomplish?

    A foot in the door, buddy.

    Cheers
    Stor
  • Re:right... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by IronMagnus ( 777535 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @03:38AM (#9460792)
    I think you could also look at it as them shooting themselvs in the foot..

    As it is, people who are willing to pay for CDs are still buying them because they know they can rip them despite the copy protection. If the RIAA sees this acceptance as a green light to go through with more stringent copy protection, this chunk of people might start to not buy the abulms they would have otherwise bought and resort to piracy, a higher level of it than if they had non copy protected CDs. The variable factor as to wether or not this would have any effect is how big that chunk of the population is. Hopefully it would have enough influence to affect some change.
  • by pilkul ( 667659 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @03:39AM (#9460797)
    Haha, that's hilariously bad. A high-school kid could've figured out how to disable autorun and bypass that protection.

    My pet theory is that the reason all DRM schemes are so hopelessly weak is that whenever the music industry confronts a competent programmer with the request to build a DRM scheme, he immediately throws up his hands and says it's impossible to do properly. The only people who will attempt the assignment are those who are too incompetent to understand that the schemes can't work.

  • by Soporific ( 595477 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @03:42AM (#9460807)
    Or hit record once and get the whole CD, then chop it up into individual songs to save time.

    ~S
  • by Myolp ( 525784 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @03:47AM (#9460820)
    Please, I could toss a couple of Oscar Wilde quotes back at that. All that is required for freedom and liberty is acceptance, nothing else.

    Patriotism has nothing to do with democracy, a nation has nothing to do with freedom and a tyrant can work across all borders made by men.

  • Re:right... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by dustinbarbour ( 721795 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @04:03AM (#9460873) Homepage

    Personally, I feel that there will ALWAYS be a way to circumvent CD protections. So, as a relatively bright guy with extensive knowledge of computing and active in the software/CD piracy scene, I'm not gonna worry about it. Let the RIAA and MPAA feel that they are successful as people are still buying CDs and living by DRM laws. I will sit quietly here in the corner and circumvent their protections and rip their music and DVDs for my personal pleasure. I'm not even scared of hardware designed for DRM. There will always be a market for hardware that bypasses the protections and it will be available.

    Basically, anything that can be built by a man, can be unbuilt by another. So no worries here.

  • -1, Uncapitalist (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Everleet ( 785889 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @04:05AM (#9460882)
    I suppose that if they only stop the lowest common denominator from doing the unauthorized copying its good enough for them.

    This strongly suggests that the "protection" exists solely to undermine legitimate personal use. There is no possible anti-piracy use for preventing only half (?) of your users from format-shifting. They know as well as we do that there will be the same amount of internet piracy of the album whether it has this protection or not.

    THEREFORE, it's time to entertain theories as to what their real motive is. The two that spring to mind are:

    1. Marketing/Publicity - the album was probably mentioned in the article, and some people may not have so dutifully forgotten it on sight...just about anything that gets the name into our vision will make them more money.
    2. Image of Authority - these schemes serve primarily to remind people, every time they use a product, that the originator of that product is, and always will be, its owner. You will use the product how they want it to be used, whether their demands make sense or not...you have no say, you accept their terms or you don't get your fix. Every bit of hassle they put you through only makes you more willing to accept this arrangement, so it is in the media trusts' best interest to create hassle for that purpose alone.

    Ultimately they're clawing for all the mindshare they can get, because they only really exist as long as you believe in them.

  • Re:right... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Sensitive Claude ( 709959 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @04:07AM (#9460885) Homepage Journal
    I suppose that if they only stop the lowest common denominator from doing the unauthorized copying its good enough for them.

    However the handling of the iPod issue leaves something to be desired...


    Maybe they should suggest people look for the files on KaZaA instead of ripping from their legally purchased CD?
  • by instanto ( 513362 ) <tabarth.online@no> on Friday June 18, 2004 @04:08AM (#9460891) Homepage Journal
    "this cd needs to install an upgrade to function"?

    Exactly what does it "upgrade"?

    Its like receiving a email "I love you, click this link".

    "I will upgrade your computer - just click ok!"

    Good way to fool innocent computer illiterates though.

    [any spelling mistakes came from the internet(tm)]
  • Re:low tech way (Score:3, Insightful)

    by iangoldby ( 552781 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @04:13AM (#9460904) Homepage
    Sorry, but anyone running Windows who doesn't have AutoPlay disabled for removable media is just asking for trouble.
  • by real_smiff ( 611054 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @04:17AM (#9460915)
    well, if i was going to pay for it, i'd take the Copy-Protected Optical Media and bypass the copy protection - half price with free postage from any of the nice websites i know. it's lossless music i can do what i want with and a physical product that lasts and has $ value. no i'm not trolling, but i don't think that was +4 insightful. not for me and i'm sure plenty of others anyway.
  • Re:funny (Score:2, Insightful)

    by LoztInSpace ( 593234 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @04:18AM (#9460919)
    I've heard that too, although I find it hard to swallow. Considering how cheap & easy it is to copy a CD, once you've produced the master I'd imagine it's pretty much a cash cow. When your're knocking them out at $10 or whatever that's a huge mark up even with overheads. Each concert obviously has an associated cost that won't go away with time.
  • Re:all it takes... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BlackHawk-666 ( 560896 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @04:18AM (#9460921)
    I have professional music production gear (Layla 8in/10out). Playing a CD and recording it on my gear would give as good a sound as a digital rip. The only hassle is it takes much longer to rip, compress the files, then title them. I'd still do it to have my music in unemcumbered digital form, but I'd rather avoid such measures and CD's when possible. But as stated, it only takes 1 person like me to tip the apple cart over and all their stupid protections are as vapour in the air.
  • by thetroll123 ( 744259 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @04:21AM (#9460928)
    will do anything to not get pulled into court on a class-action lawsuit over not accepting returned CDs...

    What a bizarre country! Are you seriously saying they *have* to let you cancel the sales contract unilaterally for no reason other than that you want to?
  • by RMH101 ( 636144 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @04:26AM (#9460947)
    ...if you buy it, it's copy protected. jesus.
  • by real_smiff ( 611054 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @04:27AM (#9460949)
    [sarcasm] yeah, it should say "install something to stop you copying this disc? Y/N" [/sarcasm].

    no wait.. it actually should say that, because that's all it is. i haven't seen the exact message, but if it's not clear & honest these companies should be taken to court for lying to people. this is the kind of thing that really gets on my tits. there has to be a law that covers this in most 1st world countries?!

  • by Eivind ( 15695 ) <eivindorama@gmail.com> on Friday June 18, 2004 @04:35AM (#9460984) Homepage
    Absolutely. And this is something that will never cease to amaze me; Why do so many people seemingly blindly accept the sellers arbitrary decision ?

    Just because a sellers claims you can't return opened merchandise, doesn't mean it's true.

    You bougth something, expecting it to be a standard CD. (reasonable, given that the copy-protection is typically poorly marked, and the CDs stacked up on racks intermixed with the non-CDs) That is, you gave away money, reasonably expecting to get a CD for it that would play in any machine capable of playing CDs.

    When the piece of plastic you got infact is not a CD, and infact is seriously inferior to a CD, by not playing in your computer, not playing in many car-stereos, not playing in your playstation, not playing in your DVD-player, not being rippable so that you can listen to it on your mp3-player and so on (all of which would work fine with a CD), then there's very little doubt that the merchandise you bougth is defective, and you have the rigth to return it.

  • by NigelJohnstone ( 242811 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @05:14AM (#9461126)
    "But more than just copy-protection: as The-Bus (138060) demonstrates by copying the entire CD EULA, BMG will also slip in DRM keys "personalized" .... "

    Surely, the whole claim behind these EULAs is that you can change the terms AFTER the sale, if the contract gives you the option of returning the product for a full refund.
    The refund is suposed to make it comparable to a sale.

    This BMG contract says "if you don't agree, don't play it" not "if you don't agree return it for a full refund".
    So they're not even putting a pretence of making this legal.

  • Sheeple (Score:2, Insightful)

    by msobkow ( 48369 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @06:30AM (#9461369) Homepage Journal

    No, the sheeple will contentedly line up to have their pockets raped, provided they can instantly have the latest 30 seconds of digital clipping noise and shiny video. If they had spines, the RIAA wouldn't have succeeded with screwing everyone to the tune of $10-12 profit (or more) on every CD they paid a whopping $1.25 to manufacture and package.

    If getting ripped off for an 80% profit margin wasn't enough to wake the sheeple up, why would you think they'll raise a stink about DRM?

    Most of them are even uneducated enough to think it's a problem with their "old" CD player, and will spend even more money fixing a "problem" that never was.

  • by Tim Browse ( 9263 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @07:27AM (#9461510)

    Pedantry alert:

    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

    Actually, that one is from Wendell Phillips [wisdomquotes.com], although according to that link, it's a common mistake to attribute it to Jefferson.

    "The tree of liberty must from time to time be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots."

    And it's refreshed, not watered, I believe. It sounds better, too, Sounded good when Ed Harris said it, anyway ;-)

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 18, 2004 @07:39AM (#9461552)
    not to meantion [sic] the tobacco

    Get over it. I am 36 years old and I have always been told that smoking would kill me.

    As far as I am concerned, no matter when you started, you have known for over a third of a century that cigarette smoking will kill you. If you kept at it during that time, you deserve a long drawn-out, painful sickness and death.

    The whole "tobacco companies are evil" and "The Truth" campaigns are just representative of the shitty state of America today; the "it's not my fault - I am not responsible for my own actions" attitude that plagues our country.
  • Re:Sheeple (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Microlith ( 54737 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @07:43AM (#9461568)
    the RIAA wouldn't have succeeded with screwing everyone to the tune of $10-12 profit (or more) on every CD they paid a whopping $1.25 to manufacture and package.

    Because as every slashbot knows, there's no more cost to the production of any given music cd than the cost to press it.
  • And what about those of us who don't want the undesirable degradation in quality from going digital -> analog -> digital?

    1. mp3 is a lossy format there would be no noticable loss encoding it for a portable mp3 player, and playing it back on headphones.

    2. IANAL, but copyright law has always allowed one copy for backup purposes.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 18, 2004 @08:10AM (#9461659)
    I always have to laugh when I hear people say this. Betcha you couldn't tell the difference if no one told you. Truth is in our society, you're lucky to survive your childhood with your hearing intact above 15KHz, and it only gets worse with age.
  • by technothrasher ( 689062 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @08:32AM (#9461760)
    Yes, but a copy-protected cd is not a piece of shit. If it is labeled as copy protected you can't just turn around and return it for being copy protected.

    Yeah, it's a messy situation there. I think there's an argument that it fails "fitness of purpose" if it doesn't play in a bunch of standard players. But there's also an argument that there's a responsibility of the consumer to fully inspect the merchandise. The best legal thing (ob. IANAL) for the consumer to do is simply ask the merchant "Will this work in all my standard CD players?". If the merchant says yes, you now have grounds to return it when it doesn't.

  • by proj_2501 ( 78149 ) <mkb@ele.uri.edu> on Friday June 18, 2004 @08:34AM (#9461772) Journal
    "Young 20-somethings care about copy protection. Geriatrics care about free money and health care. Which group votes in a larger block? Which group receives attention?"

    What does that mean?

    GET

    OFF

    YOUR ASS

    and VOTE
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 18, 2004 @08:44AM (#9461844)
    And what about those of us who don't want the undesirable degradation in quality from going digital -> analog -> digital?

    So you are listening to symphonies? Classical music CDs are probablably not protected.

    Most of the copy protected shiat is teen pop, so sound quality doesn't matter much. Even the original master tapes sound like crap. I wouldn't worry much about signal degradation.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 18, 2004 @10:01AM (#9462481)
    and what really SHITS me is the fact that you said you'd only take a return if the customer was nice. I really hope you don't mean to say your store intentionally screws over a customer just because you don't like them.
  • by Paulrothrock ( 685079 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @10:02AM (#9462495) Homepage Journal
    So should we vote for the guy who voted for the DMCA, or the guy who enforces the DMCA?
  • Re:A lot less (Score:3, Insightful)

    by geoffspear ( 692508 ) * on Friday June 18, 2004 @10:24AM (#9462702) Homepage
    Actually, no, they were not "CONVICTED", and putting it in all caps won't make it true. No one has ever been convicted of anything in a civil suit. And they settled the suit; there was never a judgement against them.

    You might as well claim that RIAA CONVICTED a bunch of kids of STEALING MUSIC, when in fact they settled copyright infringment suits.

  • by kilfarsnar ( 561956 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @10:44AM (#9462929)
    That is a simple answer. Like most simple answers, it is insufficient. Having bought the CD, I am allowed, under fair use, to copy it. So, your answer, while simple, is incorrect.
  • by uqbar ( 102695 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @10:49AM (#9462970)
    Funny thing these copy protected CD's - they don't play on my DJ setup. Which means that I can't play them, despite the fact that the clubs I spin in all pay their ASCAP and BMI fees to allow me to do so. Usually these are mainstream records that I'd want to play because the crowd likes them (my own tastes are indie label and rarely DRM protected).

    But the real loser, as usual, is the artist - their music isn't being played in the club so no public performance royalty, and their CD is returned so no points or mechanicals. (If you buy lots of records, stores are fairly cool about believing you when you need to make a return.) So the artist makess no money and loses out on a promotional opportunity to boot (i.e. "Hey DJ, what was that song you just played...?")

  • by Eric Damron ( 553630 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @11:17AM (#9463229)
    "The SunnComm and BMG execs quoted in the article say that they're pleased with the apparent consumer acceptance of the anti-piracy technology, but they have been hearing questions about how people can get the copy-blocked songs from the CD onto an iPod."

    This should tell them that the people buying the CDs probably don't realize what it is that they are buying and are going to be pissed when they find out.

  • by geminidomino ( 614729 ) * on Friday June 18, 2004 @11:20AM (#9463249) Journal
    What a bizarre country! Are you seriously saying they *have* to let you cancel the sales contract unilaterally for no reason other than that you want to?

    If they sold you defective product, yes. This is /., users here know to look for the CD Logo. Out in the meatspace, where people are stupid enough to beleive Britany Spears has talent, people don't know that sort of thing. They see a little round plastic disc in a small square plastic box, on the shelves with all of the other CDs, and they assume they will work.

    You assume a whole lot of honesty on the part of big companies (in this case, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc..) where the truth is that they WANT people to think these DRM-laden peices of drek are real CDs. Even if 50% of the people who buy them want to return them cause they don't work, maybe 10% (a VERY generous estimate) will make sufficient stink about it to get past the Customer Service smurf-droid and get it back. On the other hand, if they stocked them seperately and labeled them as "Digitally protected Music" (or somesuch), with a little explaination of what that means, they might have 1% of the sales the otherwise would have. They're just playing the law of averages.
  • by fingusernames ( 695699 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @11:41AM (#9463462) Homepage
    The most important thing to remember about the *average* consumer and their computer is that when something doesn't work, when something crashes, when they get a blue screen, they don't blame Bill Gates or the RIAA or whoever sold them the crap. They wonder "what did I do wrong?" It is one of the greatest brain-washings of all time.

    Larry
  • My way of protest (Score:2, Insightful)

    by aka_big_wurm ( 757512 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @11:50AM (#9463545) Homepage
    I have not purchased a CD in many years. When the RIAA can stop being greedy I will return to buying music. Why are CD's still $10+? I can go to walmart and buy a DVD for $5.50. Movies cost much more to make than a CD. Lower the price of CD's and I will come back to CD's. As for online music, those cost too much too. Why should I pay $15.00 for 15 songs, the CD costs less, and with a cd I have a hard copy. Make the per song price cheap and make good music and people will download lots of music. Why priate music if you can get it cheap? As for copy protection of the songs, it is more of a pain to paying customers than pirates. So forget the copy protection in songs.
  • by GoldMace ( 315606 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @11:52AM (#9463571)
    So, can you sue the band or the record company for attempting to install a virus on your computer? Actually, isn't that a criminal offence? Scott Weiland's used to being in jail isn't he?
  • by ZeroTrace ( 594778 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @11:56AM (#9463608)
    There are a couple problems with this if you are a *nix user... 1. You have to mount the CD first 2. The copy protection software is a Windows Executable Is it my fault if the copy protection doesn't work on my chosen platform? What if I decided to take the SPDIF output from my stereo and run it into my sound card? The bottom line is that this is an imperfect technology... Unless they want to invent a new CD format and obsolete every CD player on the planet, these copy protection schemes seem to be a lost cause.
  • by AviLazar ( 741826 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:32PM (#9463933) Journal
    People aren't all that accepting of government surveilance, copy protected CDs, DVD-CSS, etc. The biggest problem is that there aren't enough people who understand the high-tech issues, so they don't know they've gotten screwed for a while. This copy protection scheme sounds benign enough that it might slip under the radar, but I think there will be a reasonable stink about it.
    Well offcourse, listen to the way the rich execs market it. THey are saying that they want to prevent the evil criminals out there from stealing their property so they put copy protections on it. What reasonable adult is going to argue that statement? Especially someone who is not a techie (most politicians, hell most people).
    Now who is to counter it? The techies? Most of which cannot compete with multi-billion dollar industries? It is lack of knowledge, and those in power are either biased (read: paid off) or they just have been swept up by corporate BS.
    Logically you can't argue with "we are trying to prevent criminals from stealing", but they are omitting a lot of facts like "well there are people who want to back up their copies or transport them to other formats."
  • by darkfire5252 ( 760516 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @12:37PM (#9463988)
    Step 1: Bring up the subject of DRM, and suggest making it a standard way of copy protecting music. The techno-crowd gets in an uproar.

    Step 2: Let it quiet down.

    Step 3: Bring up the idea of specially made CDs, and suggest making it a standard. The techno-crowd gets pissy.

    Step 4: Let it quiet down.

    Step 5: Tag a 'hot new artist's' CD with an easily circumventable protection scheme. The techno-crowd gets slightly upset, but chuckles at the ineptitude of the massive RIAA.

    Step 6: Make it standard. The techno-crowd complains, but follows with its trend of complaining only to the techno-crowd.

    Step 7: Between driver updates, firmware updates, windows upgrades and media upgrades remove the 'easily circumventable' part. The fact that CDs have 'always had some sort of copy protection' removes ANY legal barrier the RIAA may have had. Who would oppose making the existing copy protection work better? Only the pirates, that's who.

    Step 8?

    Profit.
  • by h4rm0ny ( 722443 ) * on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:43PM (#9464798) Journal
    I'm probably missing a few more reasons here too but the point is they aren't always as obvious as we would think.

    I can think of an obvious one: Making money by selling flawed technology to CEOs who don't understand it.

    Don't assume omniscience on the part of the music industry execs. You may think they're big fish, but there are smaller and smarter fish ready to scavenge from their kills. ;)

    Somwhere, somebody has made a lot of money from selling copy protection software, whether it works or not.
  • by magellanic ( 689252 ) <owen@magellanic.co.uk> on Friday June 18, 2004 @01:56PM (#9464956)
    Even with the new CD protection, it is still trivial to copy the contents of CDs.

    One simply needs to connect the "analog" output of their CD player to a recording device (PC w/soundcard) and the protection can be circumvented.

    As long as we are allowed to hear the music, it will always be copied.

    There is no way of preventing music piracy short of bolting headphones to peoples heads!
  • by ryanwright ( 450832 ) on Friday June 18, 2004 @04:27PM (#9466705)
    If they borrow it and can't copy/ rip it, they will go out and buy it.

    No they won't. Almost everyone who is really into music these days has an MP3 player. They won't borrow it from their friend because when they ask, the friend will say, "Oh, this piece of shit? I can't rip it to my iPod."

    Unfortunately for the bastard copyright owners, that friend is also likely to continue with, "So I took it back and downloaded it instead. Here, I'll make you a copy..."

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