Best Buy Says Customers Not Always Right 1754
linuxwrangler writes "Best Buy is one of the retailers that has now decided that the customer is not always right. Best Buy consultant Larry Selden has identified "demon customers" like those who file for a rebate then return the item. OK, I get that one (hey Best Buy: dump those customer-despised rebates and you won't have that problem...). Other categories like customers who only buy during sales are more interesting. Best Buy declined comment on how they are dealing with those customers. Some stores have actually "fired" customers. Welcome to the end result of all that customer information data mining."
no they didn't (Score:5, Informative)
Some other guy from another retailer with a mere 21 stores in the same market is talking about 'firing customers'. The guy from best buy went out of his way to say that they won't give up on 'problem' customers.
C'mon people, follow the narrative.
Re:Speaking of scams ... (Score:2, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Contemptible Customers (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/stories/200
Beware ignorance.
Re:Contemptible Customers (Score:2, Informative)
Comments like what? In the article Best Buy look to me like an organisation who has hired a consultant to look at ways to improve profitability. That will be good for their shareholders and also their customers. No where in the linked article does it say that Best Buy is going to dump customers.
To me the article is an advertorial promoting the services of the consultant.
Re:Contemptible Customers (Score:2, Informative)
Best Buy executive vice president Philip Schoonover said the idea of "firing" some customers is one place where Best Buy disagrees with Selden. The company will try to find ways to make money-losing customers profitable, he said.
It was some other shmuck that was talking about "Firing a customer".
Re:I hate canned interviews that make no sense (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I hate canned interviews that make no sense (Score:5, Informative)
They're also done as a limiting mechanism for loss-leader items. If they want to reduce the price of an item to less than cost, they most likely want to make sure you can only claim that deal once... and that's where a rebate with "limit 1 per household" kicks in. Sure, some people might use two mailing addresses to get it twice, but nobody's going to be able to grab 20 of the item and get the post-rebate price.
Re:Be smart about bad customers. (Score:5, Informative)
you offer unlimited, and they us eit, they are not leeching, they are using what they paid for, the ISP is the one who screwed up. Don't give me expected usage, or worse, avaerage use as an excuse. The ISP said, here take all you want, so they did.
No different then going to an allyou can eat buffet, and then eating all you can eat.
Re:Always right....? (Score:4, Informative)
The problem is a broken return policy.
HEck.. the problem is a return policy at all!
A business is under no obligation legally to take back a returned item once sold, as long as it is not defective and was not sold under false pretenses. Businesses like BestBuy take returns in the first place as a courtesy to customers, because it's something people expect from large stores.
Re:Always right....? (Score:3, Informative)
In the defense of best buy employees, it's caused by a corporate structure that demands it as well as a large part of employees salaries being based on commission.
It's not a matter of better employee training, it's a matter of redefining the entire corporate philosophy. That's not going to happen
Best Buy is NOT firing customers (Score:4, Informative)
Best Buy executive vice president Philip Schoonover said the idea of "firing" some customers is one place where Best Buy disagrees with Selden. The company will try to find ways to make money-losing customers profitable, he said.
How is it Possible? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Rent-and-return hurts other consumers, too (Score:2, Informative)
OTOH, I will admit to often passing over an open package, for a "fresh" one.
Re:Always right....? (Score:5, Informative)
"Best Buy executive vice president Philip Schoonover said the idea of "firing" some customers is one place where Best Buy disagrees with Selden. The company will try to find ways to make money-losing customers profitable, he said."
In other words, the article summary (as so many
-Trillian
Re:Not allowed to only buy on sale??? (Score:5, Informative)
When I go to Best Buy, I just ask for 10% off, tell them I saw it in a competitors advert. If they need help w/ the register transaction, I tell them "to hit F6". If I'm feeling frisky, I'll ask for 20 or 25, then play down to the 10 that I wanted. I've done this at least a dozen times at Best Buy, and it's worked each one.
You'd be surprised at how often the posted price is up for negotiation. I guess it's that we've been trained well as consumers to not ask for a break on price.
Re:Always right....? (Score:3, Informative)
The corporate pressure I saw was primarily based around selling the extended warranties. That kind of pressure usually comes from even higher - the shareholders. Warranties have a very large profit margin.
Re:Not allowed to only buy on sale??? (Score:3, Informative)
I know that sounds like politically correct Slashthink, but it isn't true. Business is not about screwing the customer. Having worked in retail, I know that getting the customer to buy non-sale stuff is NOT the motivation for sales. Sales exist because:
1) The customers want sales. They demand sales. A significant percentage of customers will not buy from you unless the item is on sale. It's the US version of haggling.
2) Sales lure in new business. Sales are why you put ads in the paper. "This Weekend Pay Normal price!" just doesn't cut it for an ad. I have more than once heard the phrase, "I wasn't going to buy a doohickey, but I can't turn down that price."
3) Sales get rid of old inventory. Sheesh, the sales ads even tell you this straight up! "We need to sell all our 2004 Hondas to make room for the new 2005 models!" A product that isn't moving isn't paying the bills.
Hmm, well (Score:3, Informative)
Also, best buy isn't exactly cheap.
Nothing much (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Always right....? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, close. It's because of competition. If a competitor has a better return policy that's a good reason to buy from them instead. Their prices are so often the same that a different return policy could make a significant difference espeicially with higher priced items.
If they illiminated their return policy without lowering their prices their days would be numbered. In order to avoid losing business all the retailers would have to do it at the same time. Of course, some brick and mortar stores are now instituting 15% restocking fees for all non-defective returns just like many online retailers.
It's not our fault. Honestly. (Score:5, Informative)
But the thing is, it's not how you or I want your shopping experience to be, it's how the management wants your shoppping experience to be.
I didn't say hi to you within 30 seconds of your walking into my department? Bad associate!
I did say hi to you, but a manager walked by so now they insist I have to say hi to you again, even though that just makes you mad.
Done shopping? NO! How about more of the stuff you've got now, but in different colors/styles or accessories even though you told me you only came in for a pair of socks.
Now you're done shopping? Would you like to put this on our store issued credit card? Don't have one? Well what's holding you back from opening a 25% interest account? I must insist!
(Incidentally they feed us BS saying that the real reason they issue cards is because those customers who have them tend to be more loyal and spend more than on your standard everyday credit card, but if that was the case why charge so much interest?)
Now that our transaction is complete, and all you want to do is get the hell out of here, would you like to fill out a feedback card describing your shopping experience and determing my worth as a human being to my superiors?
Unless your dealing with just a complete asshole, odds are the employee is as equally annoyed as you are by pushing those nonsense extras.
Cut us some slack ehh?
Re:Always right....? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Always right....? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not allowed to only buy on sale??? (Score:3, Informative)
For instance, I spent about a month and a half during summer break working at Bed, Bath, and Beyond. Even though I was working after the store had closed helping with a renovation I still got a few days of very basic customer service training. One of the things I was instructed in was the proper form and the proper way to enter discounts into the computer. This was because I was authorized to discount any item in the store by either $5 or 10% of the purchase price, whichever was lower (I highly suspect that Best Buy and other stores may offer merely 10% discounts). This was in case the customer complained about almost anything: cheaper prices elsewhere, damaged packaging, chips or dings, even if they just start screaming and being abusive it was considered to be worth it just to calm them down and get them to buy something.
Now considering that a temporary employee is allowed to do this from day one working at the store I'm highly certain that this isn't really an isolated situation and other retail stores also give their employees this kind of price cut power. Likely they just try to keep it quiet and assume that any abuse isn't likely to be large enough to make a huge difference.
Now, the store I worked at once where you could make returns without a product or a receipt (in extreme cases, but we were told to always take returns in the case of product, but no receipt) and get your refund in cash? Heh... that one I'm keeping quiet about.
Re:Nothing much (Score:2, Informative)
Stores usually try to weasel themselfs out of this by pointing to their general terms for buying stuff there, luckily, the law also says you can't use that to remove consumer rights.
Re:The the hell is wrong with the US? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I hate canned interviews that make no sense (Score:3, Informative)
Usually, you can get this fixed by calling the right place and being insistent.
I bought something at Best Buy that had three rebates. Two said they required the original UPC, the third didn't require it. So I called the Best Buy rebate center to enquire, and they told me that one of them could, in fact, be a photocopy.
6 weeks later, I got a postcard for that one saying my rebate was invalid. I called, explained what had happened. She said "we can't take photocopies." Insistent. Never. Take. Photocopies. Never never never. Absolutely impossible. Went back and forth, asked for a supervisor, complained about false advertising, she finally said "One moment." 2 minutes later she came back and said "I guess we do take photocopies." then told me to re-submit everything, with the photocopies I had made. Fortunately, I had them.
What's odd is, they always say "photocopy all your materials for proof of what you sent in." So if I just claimed that I did so send in the original UPC, and I have the photocopies to prove it, what are they going to do?
There was another one where they sent me back a rejection, claiming that the purchase date was incorrect. Looking closely at the form, the data entry person had entered the receipt date as the purchase date (which should have been noticed since it was AFTER the postmark date they recorded, and besides how would I get the store-printed rebate form?). That one was actually handled pretty well when I called to complain, and they authorized processing without my having to send anything else in. I think that might have been Western Digital.
I also had one where I got my letter returned, with "P.O. Box closed". I sent it the day after I bought it, which was the last purchase date of the offer, and it said postmark by 1 week later. "Somehow", it took 1 week, 2 days to get there, and they had closed the box by then. Never did get that one resolved.
Doing things by e-mail is almost always impossible. I think they specially train customer-service people to not understand what you said, give you advice you already said you tried, and if you asked more than one question, to only answer the one that they can misunderstand the most. Amazon is really good at all of this, for instance. Their phone customer support used to be wonderful, then they changed and made it almost impossible to talk to them on the phone.
Re:Always right....? (Score:2, Informative)
former employee (Score:4, Informative)
For starters, the best buy in brentwood tennessee, i have known the managers there to throw customers out or not let them purchase very large items in home theater if they were not willing to get the service plan, and this was a manager. This stuff happened all the time if people refused to purchase accessories or more stuff all over the store.
Second, I started working in the computer department, wanting to kill a day and get paid for it, i sat down and read the whole computer department training manual. I found out a few weeks later that I was the only person in the history of that best buy to actually fully read one of the training manuals, most of the time they dont even read them. In the computer department i would walk by and hear some of the most outlandish claims thrown out by salesmen, and most of them confided in me that they didnt know the first thing about computers, they only knew prices, not what was best for the customer. Lastly are the service plans. Best buy used to have a policy fo judging sales people by their service plan sales but it had been cancelled a few months before i joined. I would offer the service plan to those people and items I thought it would actually be useful on, mainly emachines since if they broke they had a policy of not trying to fix it but just replacing it with whatever model was equal to the price that person purchased theirs at, a hell of a deal if your pc breaks every 6 months. I had been talked to many times for not hawking the service plans extremely hard, even if the person obviously did not want one.
One final item, which may not be unusual for a corporation of that size, but still pissed me off. One of my friends working there completely destroyed his back doing lifting for them. A few days after his accident while he was working he was fired, due to some lame excuse about paperwork which no one does. Of course the friend filed suit but was constantly followed by a private investigator to make sure he wasnt doing anything that could be used against him in court.
Anyway, thats just my 2 cents from a former employee, I still purchase things there but usually only on sales.
Re:screw 'em if they can't take a joke (Score:2, Informative)
Not sure if it was mentioned. (Score:1, Informative)
Perhaps if
Re:Always right....? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Always right....? (Score:5, Informative)
Having worked in the electronics industry, I know about the bathtub curve (the probability of failure plotted against time resembles a side view of a bathtub
The point is, if just about anything electronic doesn't break within the first year -- where it's covered by law -- then it'll probably last ten years or more. {Of course you have to allow for the Six B's (batteries, bulbs, brushes, belts, bearings, blades); but since these are usually designed to be field-replaceable, they fall outside the scope of any warranty.} Extended warranties are almost never worthwhile -- if you ever have to claim on it, a new appliance even better than the one you bought probably will not cost you much more than the extended warranty plan.
Re:Always right....? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Always right....? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Nothing much (Score:5, Informative)
i was pointed to the clause specifically EXCLUDING the LCD screen. I pointed out that the PSP Ibought does not have that wording and I was told "we change the terms and wording all the time, and we reserve the right to do so without notification." and had it pointed out to me...
Then all smiles, "I can get an associate to help you buy another laptop."
Re:Always right....? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Best Buy is The Demon (Score:4, Informative)
The moral of this story: Always purchase electronics with a credit card. If the merchant won't take it back and immediately exchange it for a working version of the same product (no 2 weeks waiting for repair, I'm talking about immediate exchange right there in the store), call your credit card company and dispute the charge. Works every time. The fact of the matter is that the credit laws protect you because you do not have to pay for goods or services that you never received, or were defective. The credit card company can't bill you for them and will issue a chargeback which means the merchant won't get their money either.
Also, if a merchant gets too many chargebacks in a certain period of time, the credit card company will revoke their merchant account, leaving them unable to accept credit cards period.
This is also a highly effective bargaining tool if the customer service rep is giving you a hassle about returning the item. Just tell them you will dispute the charge with your CC company if they don't accept the return right this second. They will immediately cave, because they know they don't have a chance of winning that battle.
Re:Best Buy (Score:5, Informative)
That is why it's shipped to headquarters, then gets panned out to the manufacture's depot. It's where the service tools, jigs, parts, and trained tech is for that item. So much is trade secret stuff nowdays, many items can't be repaired by the local shop.
I moved on to R&D. It pays the bills.
Re:Always right....? (Score:3, Informative)
While it's true that they don't get commission, their managers get bonuses based on service plans sold. As a result, the employees are under a lot of pressure to sell as many service plans as possible. While they may have some concern for the buyer, that's secondary and more than overshadowed by the pressure to sell sell sell. In some stores, it's so bad that employees are more than willing to lose a non-service plan sale on a big ticket item since it would bring their percentages down.
Re:Always right....? (Score:2, Informative)
14-day return/exchange policy sucks! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Always right....? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Always right....? (Score:5, Informative)
He also said that he regularly saw his boss, who DID receive commission, lie to customers and say that he didn't.
Another irritation is that even with the extended warranty, you can expect to be without your item for quite some time if it breaks. I had a camcorder which broke within 4 months of purchase. It took 6 weeks to be repaired. That was pretty annoying since we went on a family vacation during that time.
The real reason rebate items are not there... (Score:3, Informative)
In point of fact, this is usually the case on any good priced sale item. I've seen it time and time again. I worked at Best Buy back in the late 90's, and this *always* happened. The real reason is that the items simply did not arrive on the truck. They have a scheduling system whereby the items in question either arrive a week early or fail to arrive until three days after. Usually three days after the sale starts. Understand that a) the circulars are printed on a national or regional basis, not on a store basis and b) the stores get them about 1 day before the sale itself. So half the time when an item was a good sale item, we wouldn't actually have the item in stock because it hadn't shown up on the truck yet. Invaribly there would be customers complaining about "bait and switch" or other tactics being used, and the only response we could give was "What the fuck do you want us to do? The item has not shown up at the store yet. I can't sell you what we don't fuckin' have." Best I could do was offer a raincheck at that point.
Whether this is intentionally planned or just the result of shitty planning in terms of truck arrivals, I never did find out. But it happened like clockwork, on at least one or two really good deals in every sale. Usually in the computer stuff, which is why I dealt with it so much.
Re:Always right....? (Score:3, Informative)
"Oh YES I CAN!"
"Well, not if it breaks after blah blah blah"
"well, are you saying that these cameras are pieces of crap and break a lot?"
(Silence)
"Since you're so unconfident in this cameras worksmanship, I don't think I want it anymore."
(blubbering)
I then went across the street to circuit city, and bought the same camera with no hassle.
The customer is wrong?? Please..... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Always right....? (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, but is it actually true? And if so, where did you find it out?
At any rate, I've never seen any store in the UK try to sell anything like a PS2 with a pathetic 90-day warranty; AFAIK, even without the EU, you could probably take them to court under existing UK law, on the basis that it was reasonable to expect that it would last longer than 90 days.
If they can get away with "90 days" in the US, then... no offence guys, but what a joke. No wonder you can buy $30 DVD players if they're really that bad.
Re:Always right....? (Score:2, Informative)
Dear Best Buy... (Score:4, Informative)
On the day that you stop having good sales and rebates I will no longer buy from you. I am a veteran of the dot-com boom when everyone and their mother sold things at outrageous prices and then disappeared. I was there when 800.com sold 3 DVDs for $1 with nothing else to buy and they are now gone. Egghead.com had great sales when they went online, but no longer offered competitive pricing so good riddance. Treat me and my fellow customers like crap and you won't even have a store left in your native state of Minnesota. Until then I will suck you dry since (shocking as this may be to Best Buy's management) I am not there to give them as much of my money as I can in each individual product I buy. I want the most bang for the buck.
To those that were actually physically accosted by an employee, I don't know what magic restraint you have, but I would have put that person into an armlock at that point. NOTHING gives them the right to touch you, especially when they are trying to coerce your hard earned money in that fashion.
BestBuy Sux Website (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Huh? (Score:3, Informative)
They're allowed to ask, and you're allowed to refuse. If they have reason to suspect actual shoplifting, they're within their rights to detain you and call the cops. If, however, it turns out that you didn't shoplift, they're on the hook.
Somewhere like Costco, however, where you signed a membership agreement, you ARE required to provide your receipts at the door on request; you agreed to that. At Best Buy, though, they can either charge you with shoplifting, or get the fuck out of your way.
It's the commission (Score:3, Informative)
cheers,
Kris
Re:Always right....? (Score:1, Informative)
My Best Buy hellstory (Score:2, Informative)
Dealing with Customers (Score:5, Informative)
It is true that the managers receive bonuses based on the performance of their departments but it is based by monthly performance, so if you don't want to buy a PSP and don't want to be badgered by pressured sales people, go to buy from beginning to mid month.
Also, as any customer service or sales representative will tell you, being hostile will get you nowhere. If you antagonize me or address me as if I am beneath you, you will not get any help from me. From someone else, you will get some lip back, because it is not a job people regret losing (low paying, crappy hours, dealing with customers like you).
Last but not least. PSP (at least in my store) was a good buy ON CERTAIN ITEMS. (like emachines) We had an extraordinary number of them returned due to problems and Best Buy does not deal with manufacturer warranties. The reason people tell you "You know that you can't bring it back here if it breaks" is because many idiots bring an item back without a service plan, past the return period, and demand Best Buy to repair or replace the item. It wears down everyone in the customer service and the tech department when the customer should know that they need to contact the manufacturer.
That said, I worked in a great store, while it was a great store. Rule of thumb is: Go to a newly opened Best Buy if possible, or one where there is a lot of competition. The managers there are more experienced and customer (as well as staff) oriented because they are either:
a) training new staff or,
b) trying to retain customer base.
Our good management went away after a while (promoted internally) and supervisors, while good sales people, moved up into management and just were not so good. After that our entire computer dept. left because we could not deal with the management.
After my stints in sales, and customer service, I was amazed at how many people can be just plain rude and hostile just because someone has to ask one question (I never repeatedly asked for PSP, but I was knowlegeable about computers and thus had a better sales record, and thus was retained as an employee)
My dream is to make a "How to be a good customer" website, describing techniques of being nice AND getting what you want from the sales person (not mutually exclusive).
Re:My Best Buy Horror Story - Still Pending.. (Score:3, Informative)
Put the shoe on the other foot here for a minute. You are a joe working for BB (which sells big money in small packages) and you've been told by management to stand at the door and ask for receipts to match up the items in the bag with what's on the paper. Then some guy walks up, you ask him for his receipt, and you say "no". You might think "hmmm, what's this guy hiding?".
Now, I don't agree with this dude walking up and trying to snatch the DVD from you, which eventually resulted in them actually charging it back to your card (totally lame...) and a battery charge, but such is the way of slippery slopes. I think by the time it got to the point when the manager came out, it was about a vendetta against you, not checking to make sure you weren't shoplifting.
But since you are in the mess, I wish you the best of luck. But in the future, try to stay inconspicuous and flash the receipt
Re:scammers (Score:2, Informative)
Especially if they "scam" by "buying stuff with their discount, then returning it at another store (without a receipt) for gift cards for the full price". You don't get an employee discount with gift cards, mainly because you can buy them with a discount. The only way they could "make" money off of that idiotic scam is by selling the cards. But why go to all that trouble when they can just buy the products for their buds and keep 50% of the difference that their discount provides.
Re:Always right....? ( Lowes story ) (Score:3, Informative)
It was going to cost $100 for the service call and $70 an hour for the technician to check it out, even if the problem was covered by the warranty. They were also informed that nobody could look at it for about 17 days. That's a long time to be without a refrigerator/freezer.
Considering the fact that the tech probably wouldn't be in a hurry, would be motivated to find issues that wouldn't be covered, and would be looking to sell them parts and labor above the minimum, the in-laws decided to just buy a new refrigerator.
But not a GE model.
This isn't new to me (Score:2, Informative)
Well, I used my machine for a long time. Of course, maybe I used it too much. It's probably a bad sign when you get out of school, and boot it up to play some MP3s on the walk home, and find out you blew all your batteries on games of Go in class.
So, eventually, I get up one morning, and try to start the machine. No go. I can't even do a hard restart on it. So, after work, my mom and I go down to Best Buy (I was a minor in '99, so it was all in her name). At first, they won't take it. No proof of purchase. So, for the next few weeks, we're comming back and forth with different forms of proofs of purchases. Eventually, we call up the Best Buy corporate office and have them fax us a copy of the recipt.
So, now we're getting somewhere, right? Now, remember, this is Winter, and I live in Minnesota. Every time I go into Best Buy, they have to put a little sticker on the PPC to make sure that I didn't steal it. Now, I walk into the store, and take the PPC out of my pockets, with my gloves still on. I hand it to the guy, and it slips from my hand and falls to the ground. When we go to the service counter to get this all wrapped up, the guy refuses to service it. He said he was us drop it, and pointed to a small plastic piece that was exposed, pointing out the obvious physical damage. Now, this was no physical damage. originally, this piece was covered by a chunk of rubber, but to affix the flip cover, you had to remove the rubber chunk, and clip it into the plastic piece. Either way, the guy won't service it.
from then on out, we've never been happy with Best Buy. In fact, the next PDA I bought was from OfficeMax, and was a Visor Edge, specifically because Visor offered a proctetion against droppage clause in their warrantee and because OfficeMax had never screwed us. To this day, OfficeMax has yet to screw us.