TiVo vs. Windows Media Center Edition

The Importance of writes "Two reviewers make head-to-head comparisons of TiVo and Windows Media Center Edition (here and here). TiVo still comes out ahead, but MCE is improving. Of course, some tout the flexibility of PC-based DVRs, while others question what this flexibility means when you have things like the broadcast flag and the INDUCE Act."

Personally

[clester]

Not to troll in any way, but personally, I will always support Tivo in the Tivo vs. MCE case for the soul reason of giving M$ my business... Just my .02

Sorry

[Anonymous Coward]

But anyone who picks a PC based solution is someone with too much time on their hands, and needs to examine their lifestyle, perhaps.

Computers are a hobby of mine, and *I* don't have the time or patience to set something like this up. $149 for a Tivo gave me dual tuners, snappy interface and recording of the original DirecTV data stream (no quality loss). $6 a month? If $6 a month is even an issue to you, again, take a magnifying lens to your life. Something isn't working correctly.

TiVo vs. MythTV

[gmplague]

I want to see a comparison of TiVo vs. MythTV vs. Freevo vs. Media Center. From my experience, MythTV should definitely come up on top. I've got a box running MythTV that acts as my tivo, fileserver, network audio device, and game console. Can tivo do all that?

OT? - letter to Direct TV

[teamhasnoi]

Here's a copy of my letter to Direct TV in regards to the Home Media Option

Subject: Home Media Option

Details: Where is it? This is something I would PAY for. You don't
even have a mention of it on your website, or an option for a DVR in
your 'Topics' above . At least you could be forthcoming about the
reasons you don't offer this service.

I have been a customer of yours for several years (I'm not putting my
customer number in on purpose) and have had DirectTV Tivo for a little
over 4 months.

I purchased this 'service' under the impression that I would be able to
network it, burn my shows to DVD, and stream shows to my PCs and Macs.

DirectTV has disappointed.

Your customer service is great, and I have very few service complaints,
but your refusal to work with your customers on this issue has me
investigating Dish Network and Replay TV and cable offerings in my area
- soon my DSL provider will be providing video on demand.

It is obvious to me that if DirectTV continues treating its customers
unfairly, the customers are going to leave for a provider that
understands fair use.

Thanks for your time.

(Reply follows)
Dear Customer,

Thank you for writing. As you know, the TiVo stand alone may offer the
Home Media Option, but DIRECTV DVR with TiVo does not. However, DIRECTV
DVR with TiVo may focus more on other features, such as video-based
services like Starz on Demand. For information about TiVo stand alone
units and service, please visit the website at: www.tivo.com or you can
call 877-FOR-TIVO, that's 877-367-8486. Available 11AM-11PM ET daily.

Please know that we are always looking for ways to enhance our services.
Your suggestions are valuable and we use them to judge interest in
various programming sources. In fact, we have made changes as a result
of viewer feedback.

We have forwarded your comments to our programming department. Please
continue to visit our web site at DIRECTV.com for the latest news and
information about our services.

Additionally, as you know, DIRECTV makes changes and additions to our
programming line-up from time to time. However, it is a DIRECTV policy
not to discuss upcoming announcements until their official release date,
and at this time we have no official announcement beyond what we have
already communicated to the public. We invite you to visit the News
Releases section of our web site at
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/aboutus/Headline s.js p for the latest
announcements

We hope that this information is helpful. Thanks again for writing.

Sincerely,

Ganesh
DIRECTV Customer Service

'scuse my ignorance but...

[fiannaFailMan]

Is VHS gonna stick around for another while? I know it can be a nightmare to program those things and stuff, but it strikes me as an underrated bit of technology. Are there issues with recording cable? I seem to remember my landlord in England recording digital TV content onto an ancient, top-loading VCR. Sure there are a lot of things that a TiVo can do that a VCR can't, but you pay a high price for this. A bit like an autogyro being a lot cheaper but slightly more limted than a helicopter.

Re:Personally

[bje2]

that's exactly what i was thinking...don't let your anti-MS stance blind you to what they're doing...what if MS stumbles upon a cure for cancer...you just gonna ignore it, because MS discovered it???

forget MCE

[BitchAss]

It's been covered a million times here, but MythTV does more than MCE or Tivo.

One day I gave MCE a try and found it to be a dreadfull experience. Sure, some of the widgets and transitions were nice - and the remote was pretty sexy (anyone wanna help me write a driver for Linux?), but it just left me wanting more.

I have most of my media living on a different machine - MCE had a hard time dealing with that. I had to import my mp3s (not oggs - god forbid) into Media Player before MCE would recognize them.

Large movies were a pain too - MCE wanted a nice screen shot of each movie - so a directory with 10-15 divxs was painful to browse.

I have MythTV set up with a PVR-250 and it's the best thing ever. Automatic commercial flagging? check Windows? Not even. So much better.

Re:TiVo vs. MythTV

[kannibal_klown]

Throw "SnapStream" into there as well.

While not free, it's pretty cheap ($30 USD).

My main PC doubles as a DVR when I'm not using it. It's a breeze to setup (as simple as you could possibly get, actually), looks wonderful, and functions very well.

Granted, it requires some flavor of Windows (that can run .Net libraries), but it's still great. And they set it up that if the company ever goes under, you can point Snapstream to the same kind of data that Myth uses.

It's really a must-see-to-believe thing. I thought it was going to be some cheezy software, but it is really well put together.

However, I think a "Tivo" is a better solution. You don't have to sit there and configure stuff, update stuff, bla bla bla. It's relatively cheap (even with the lifetime subsription it's not that bad), and does everything you need (with the exception of burning the vids onto CD's or DVD's).

Re:Personally

[darth_MALL]

"Even if eventually MCE became the better product? (god of technology forbid)"
Wouldn't it be a good thing to see MS bring out a product worth supporting? It's an awful lot of energy wasted trying to dislike something. Maybe they could earn the #1 spot for a change.

What about the A/V Vendors?

[grunt107]

A few years back the major a/v mfgs (like Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer) were supposedly agreeing on a common interface to their components, which could also be controlled by outside (read: PC) components. Has any of this gone forward? I would prefer the sonic advantage of standalone components, but would love to have server access (and use a live web connect as another "component"). Then MythTV (or TiVo) could be just another component enhanced by the home theatre system.

Re:Sorry

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe that is someones hobby.

maybe you should take a magnifying lens to your life, and stop being critical of what others CHOOSE to do.

basically, go buy a tivo, but sit quiet when someone else actively chooses a different approach.

Canada as safe haven

[antarctican]

See, if I had the time and money I'd setup a company here in Canada where we don't have these insane laws limited consumer rights. Yes, it's getting worse up here, but for now I see this as the near-by safe haven for developing PVR type products safe from being sued.

Yes, importing could be restricted, but it's not stopping us from sending you guys cheaper drugs to get around that piece of insanity by your government - catering to all of big business' demands....

So look north, let us develop your PVRs, it'll be good for us, you'll have more freedom, and I can only hope we're sane enough to never let our government pass such outrageous laws.... Move MythTV's code base off-shore or north.... such a great solution. :)

PC will be the clear winner...

[MaestroSartori]

...for those of us in the UK, at least as long as there continues to be no new Tivo kit worth buying. There are some decent PVRs apparently, but I'm told they all fall short on various aspects...

Re:Sorry

[dumpsterKEEPER]

I think you're overlooking differing points of view with these statements. First of all, computers are not a "hobby" of mine. I have always looked at them as being different than model railroading and stamp collecting because of the great rewards provided by being proficient at them. I work with computers for a living, and enjoy continuing to use them in my personal life as well.

One of my future goals is to set up a PC based solution for basic idea mentioned in this article. When I do, will use a PC based solution for several reasons. First, I consider it to be more flexible than the current mainstream offerings (although I'm always willing to keep my eye on them). Secondly, I thoroughly enjoy the process of setting up and configuring the system. Finally, when I complete the project, I will enjoy using it far more because it is something that I created myself and tuned to my exact specifications.

If computers really are just a hobby to you, then no, $6 a month is nothing at all. For me it would have nothing to do with the monthly cost but the satisfaction of creation. Yes, it also takes more time, but I'm sure you also choose to make time for things that you enjoy doing. Just because I select a route that involves more work but provides me with a great deal of personal enjoyment out of creating and using hardly means that "something isn't working correctly" with my life.

Re:Sorry

[SilentChris]

"If $6 a month is even an issue to you, again, take a magnifying lens to your life. Something isn't working correctly."

Maybe to you, but *understanding* it is worth far more than $6 a month to some people.

Re:forget MCE

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's been covered a million times here, but MythTV does more than MCE or Tivo."

Ah...its the my penis is bigger syndrome yet again.

You fuckers got left behind by the jocks that had more adequate physiology and now make up for it with gadgets.

When will you learn, its not that one can do more -- its how how well it does the little things -- you know the most important items. I don't fucking care how well it will play some random fucking obscure format that no one but guy with blueballs living in their parents basements will play. I want it to play MP3s and WAVs and AAC (even if its just the unprotected kind). I need it to play DVDs and maybe VCDs...I don't give a fuck about DIVX. Flac??? Do I look like a fucking smelly hippy that wants to play the dead and phish in lossless encoding? No -- If I cared that much, I'd have burned them to CD and played them as full audio.

You fuckwads want everything and don't give a damn about ease of use. I'm sick of hearing how the fucking iRiver is better than my iPod because it can WiFi porn from your bluetooth camera (yeah, I hears they got a majik converter that can do that) and holodisplay it at 30 ft by 25.

WHO THE FUCK CARES!!!

I'm sure MCE is even nicer than fucking Myth. I hate Microsoft, but they don't make shit as bad as geeks left to their own devices do. Hey!!! If we put pretty pictures here and make it skinable, it will be more user friendly. This is the exact attitude why its NOT userfriendly.

I'd take MCE over Myth any day...but I'd take Tivo over that because it doesn one fucking thing and it does it well.

Fuckwads -- yes this is flamebait. And its true. Its also Insiteful. So fucking just mod this Inciteful.

How many fucking idiots won't even get that. Morons.

Re:hackable tivos would be even more flexable.

[nchip]

Even if you don't want to hack them yourself, buying hackable hardware means you can probably install easily hacks done by others, which increases the value of the hardware a lot.

That's why I payed a little bit more on my phone (to get a symbian based one which allows you to install your own software instead of just java midlets), and a linksys Access Point.

Most people do not yet realize that the lifetime of hackable hardware is a lot longer than locked hardware.

This is all fine and good to compare, but...

[Not_Wiggins]

With the push to move towards digital-only signaling, the PC is going to get squeezed out.

I'm all for PC-based PVRs, but I have digital cable. The thought of re-encoding an MPEG2 stream that has already been encoded and decoded once really blows (especially when the compression they've used is so freakin' high to start).

At least with TiVo, one can record the original stream un-decoded. Even then, this isn't an option for me as I don't have satellite (it is supposed to be coming "soon" for digital cable boxes).

And I can't imagine that with the security wrapped into those digital receivers any of those companies are going to be hot to support a PC-based digital decoder card.

Hate to say it, but when it comes to quality, I think the "receiver with integrated pvr functionality" is going to win out. 8/

TiVo is a Linux based PC.

[foooo]

TiVo is a Linux based PC. It is hackable enough to do a *lot* of interesting things that you can't on a normal TiVo.

The reason why TiVo corporation doesn't support this "hacking" actively is that they need to be legally insulated from lawsuits.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/

~foooo

Re:Component interoperability?

[Leadmagnet]

I wasn't just for home theater control but "Whole House Automation" e.i. media, security, lighting, and HVAC.

Re:Sorry

[spronk]

My wife is the one who requested the removal of our Tivo after using our HTPC. Our boxes don't crash, they only get rebooted to update the kernel now and then but otherwise they're running 24/7 recording shows and what not.

Tivo windows update

[Anonymous Coward]

"I dont have to worry about my tivo getting hacked because I did visit windows update on a regular basis."

Thank goodness Windows update supports TIVO.

Seriously, if your TIVO were on the Internet, it could be rooted. MS has to figure out how to keep Windows XP from being a security nightmare before it allows the Media Center Edition to be an internet appliance.

Re:forget MCE

[BitchAss]

I agree - Myth was very difficult to setup. Now that I've done it a few times, I could set it up in a couple of hours (including OS install). It's definitly not meant for the average user to setup, but I don't see why a Tivo like device couldn't be setup around it.

I did download a copy of MCE to try it out. A friend of mine works in a distributer that builds MCE units and I was pretty impressed. I think as long as you use it in the certain way that MS intends, then great (well - except for the stability problems) - but as soon as you want it to do more, then you're outta luck - plus - comparing it side by side with Myth just made MCE look sick.

Re:Sorry

[Steve525]

Yes, but you obviously have DirecTV. If you don't have DirecTV, and have no interest in DirecTV, then your comparison isn't valid. You'll loose the ability to directly record a stream, you'll become limited to one tuner, and the cost goes up to (I think) $13 a month. So, yes, for those who have DirecTV, or are interested in DirectTV, it's a no-brainer. For others, Tivo, is a less attractive (although still a very good) option.

I've looked into building a PVR from an old computer recently. The combination of a PVR-350 (from Hauppauge) and SageTV looks pretty polished and easy to set up. (Take a look at some reviews for SageTV linked from their webpage). I'm not sure your arguement about having too much time applies anymore, but I'll let you know after I try it myself. (Setting up a MythTV or Freevo box would be cheaper, but probably more difficult).

As far as cost, it will set me back ~$300, if I use the old computer. (There are cheaper options if you have a faster computer and/or are willing to use Linux). This is less than the $150+$300 (life subscription), I would have to pay if I got a Tivo. If I had to build a computer from scratch, than that would add another $300, (although I might be able to get by with a PVR-250 and save a little money there). This is more than a Tivo, but not outrageous. The added functionality of computer and the freedom to do whatever you want with what you record may be worth it to some people.

Re:Component interoperability?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shit... Imagine that on an internet connection computer. Even worse with Microsoft software -_-;

Re:Personally

[cayenne8]

"Tivo does not let you take your shows with you on your laptop. "

Once you hack it...you can take the video off it and do as you please...

Re:TiVo vs. MythTV

[bay43270]

Where can I buy a MythTV box?

You can buy mine! It really sounded fascinating when I started. The screen shots look cool, and my series 1 tivo is getting a little old. It sounded like a good idea.

The last time I touched it, I was walking down a dependency chain trying to get my DVD playback working. Once I got to the end of the dependencies, I forgot where I started. I love computers as much as the next guy, but who wants to spend a Saturday afternoon researching the best model of IR receiver for Linux? Or why nvidia's drivers want me to recompile the kernel?

MythTv is for people who want to play in linux. period. If you want a working product, then buy a tivo. If you want to read your email, buy a laptop and put it next to your livingroom chair. That should free up your Saturday afternoon for writing some software (much more fulfilling IMHO).

Re:With DirecTV?

[TopShelf]

DirecTiVo is a fantastic product, and unfortunately, I'm suffering major withdrawal right now. We sold our house and have moved into an apartment while we built a new home, but during the interim we're hooked up to cable instead of the dish.

Between the crappy picture quality and clumsy interface of digital cable, it makes me appreciate the seamless quality of DirecTiVo all the more. I can't wait until we move into the new place in September...

XMLTV is what sucks about HTPCs

[milo28]

I used XMLTV for a year and finally gave up on it. It constantly needs to be updated to continue to pull the listings correctly. I hate having to keep up with XMLTV just so that my listings are correct. That is the why I think a BeyondTV based solution is better for an HTPC. They(I) pay for their guide data (price included with one-time software purchase) and it is more accurate and vastly more reliable than XMLTV based solutions like Myth. (might be different outside the US) Although Digiguide was pretty awesome till they pulled out of the US market.

Give me Myth when I can rely on the TV listings. Until then it's not worth much.

Re:Oddly?

[kandrewnet]

NBC starts some of their primetime shows 1 minute early now which steps all over PVR's trying to schedule shows before and after. I believe that Microsoft's implementation allows for 'soft' padding where the first early five minutes can be pre-empted by another requested show then switch on-time to the next show. I wish TiVo did this... Andrew

TiVo is more than a box and software

[gearmonger]

Unlike WMC, which *is* basically just a box and software, TiVo has a whole community and culture behind it.

As an example, "News You Can Use From TiVo" is the only company newsletter I actually read. It's funny, fun, and has some cool statistics in it once in a while.

When WMC starts developing a community, or when TiVo runs out of funding, that's when WMC will get on my radar (my guess is that it'll be the latter :-\.

My "Home Theater"

[Kjella]

is a Kiss DP-1500, playing DVD/DivX/XviD and whatever, with network, hooked up to a huge Linux media server far far away from the living room using a network cable. The one thing I can not do is record, but I've found there is very little on TV I'd like to record anyway... most shows here are ages behind the US.

Kjella

Re:Component interoperability?

[Daktaklakpak]

Just a couple of thoughts
1) what if someone hacks your house? guy comes home, kitchen appliances are going crazy, this voice comes from the speakers, "ALL YOUR HOUSE ARE BELONG TO US!", prOn on the TV, etc

2) didn't you guys see the matrix, or terminator, or any of the other movies that featured computers wresting control of the world from humankind? this is how that starts! do you WANT to give computers that much power?