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Education News Science Technology

Student Killed Driving Solar Car 847

Lev13than writes "Tragedy struck the University of Toronto's Blue Sky Solar Racing Team on Thursday when 21-year old student Andrew Frow was killed in a car accident. It appears that Frow lost control of the low-riding experimental car and was struck by a minivan head-on. The team was driving from Stratford to Waterloo (about an hour west of Toronto) as part of a tour of universities in Ontario and Quebec to mark the one-year anniversary of the 2003 Blackout. This is a big setback for solar power advocates, especially as the blackout anniversary will pass with remedial legislation stranded in Congress. More information on the accident is available here." The vehicle's design is not really street-safe - this will be a problem as more efficient, lighter cars share the road with Hummers.
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Student Killed Driving Solar Car

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  • Sad, sad day. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Tr0mBoNe- ( 708581 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @01:24PM (#9960491) Homepage Journal
    I am good friends with some of the designers of that car. Hell... I even helped carry the solar panels into the conference building in Scarbrough in January where I met them. It is truly tragic, and my heart goes out to them. That is the problem with this kind of tragedy... this car was designed for racing and not highway travel competing for road space with Cadillacs.

    Rest in peace Andrew, and keep them strong Raja.
  • Re:Hummers (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Nos. ( 179609 ) <andrew@th[ ]rrs.ca ['eke' in gap]> on Friday August 13, 2004 @01:24PM (#9960498) Homepage
    I remember hearing or seeing something about moving the bumpers on SUVs and trucks lower so that if the impact with a regular car, the bumper will impact where the structure of the car was built to take an impact. I think a lot of the problems arise when the SUV is impacting where the car was not designed to withstand an impact, like above the door frame. Of course this probably wouldn't have made a difference in this case, but something that should be considered regardless.
  • NHTSA (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Iberian ( 533067 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @01:24PM (#9960503)
    The problem has nothing to do with the power source, but all to do with the structural design developed to increase vehicle range. If solar vehicles cannot be made to pass the same crash tests as all other vehicles then perhaps we can convert the carpool lanes into solar lanes. Obviously this will have to wait until oil hits 100 a barrel and people start buying solar powered cars.
  • by Vaginal Discharge ( 706367 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @01:28PM (#9960562)

    In the pursuit of science, many men and women have given their lives. His death may yet save hundreds more. We should not let this setback restrain us from the further development of science and technology.

    Early cars (in the 1920's and 1930's) were very dangerous indeed. Many people died before car companies finally decided to add safty equipment (like brakes). We have indeed come a long ways from that time. Eventually solar powered cars will be just as safe, if not safer than current vehicles.

  • by tatonca ( 305375 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @01:32PM (#9960604) Journal
    "... Frankly that car was not street legal, it shouldn't have been allowed on the highway ..."

    Except by not allowing them on the highway you remove the possibility of long distance endurance type competition. These races are important because they present challenges you won't necessarily have on a closed course - like construction, road conditions, inclement weather, and oncoming traffic...
  • Re:WTF?!? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by QuantumRiff ( 120817 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @01:50PM (#9960855)
    But of course, if you have glaucoma, a Stroke, resperatory problems, and are a 5'1" old lady that can't see over the dash, you can leagaly drive a RV the same size as a semi, without all those inspections and special licensing and training. And a semi is articulated (axis point in the middle) so it can turn easier than an RV. I always feel safe around truck drivers. Its the old folks driving the Huge RV's that scare the Shit out of me!!
  • Re:It's sad (Score:2, Interesting)

    by tomee ( 792877 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @01:59PM (#9960968)
    While I agree with you, a viable alternative to oil may save lives. A lot of lives. Then again that is a future that is hard to predict.
  • by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:02PM (#9961011) Homepage Journal

    There are two issues in any impact, vehicular or not: The total impulse and the time over which it is applied. Decrease the first, or increase the second, and the maximum force applied at any given time is decreased. This is why crumple zones are a good thing (tm).

  • by rider_prider ( 698555 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:06PM (#9961070)
    I get tired of the same single/no kids/urban dwellers attacking vehicles they can't afford or don't need. It's always fun to limit someone else's freedom. I can drive any street legal vehicle thanks. by the way, when I am taking my three boys to hockey pratices/games, or when I am driving to a worksite carrying tools/supplies,... there is no other choice than a larger vehicle, Whatever happened to tolerance and live and let live....
  • by ElMatteo ( 805288 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:10PM (#9961131)
    I've been a long time slashdot reader, but this is the first time that I've actually taken the time to create an account so that I could post something. I'm going on 3 years as the Electrical Manager for the McGill University Solar Car project. I actually met with a representative from the Toronto project not even one week ago about this tour. Our car was on the tour, but was not actually driving, because we weren't ready to go. I have to say that this post is one of the most disrespectful things I've read. Teams pour their hearts and souls into their cars. If U of T is anything like us, they spent countless hours trying to find sponors to build parts to save grams and milliwatts to give their car even the smallest edge. Do you have any concept of how expensive it is to make composite (carbon fiber monoque) cars? Our car has a value, not including the 3 years of manufacturing labor of about $750,000. These cars are designed to be as light and power-efficient as technology will allow. Our car is only strong where it needs to be, and it is *just* strong enough. Just saying that "the design was bad" really makes me mad. Do you have any idea? How could you possibly make that judgement? That comment was not insightful, it was plain ignorant.
  • by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:14PM (#9961184) Homepage
    such a thing happened here last week a Giant SUV ran a red light and was T-boned by another smaller SUV that had the right of way and was travelling at 55mph.

    the occupants of the giant SUV all died.

    Small light solar car or giant SUV... an accident at 55mph is usually pretty darn violent.
  • by goodydot ( 749400 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:15PM (#9961202) Homepage
    I know this is a little off-topic, but the poster mentions sharing the road with Hummers. I find it amazing that the impact points of cars, all the way around the vehicle, are not of standard height. What's the point of bumpers if they are going underneath the car on impact? Yes, I realize that off-road vehicles need higher clearance and need to use public roads to get offroad, but we see the results of non-standard bumper heights everyday, including here.
  • Re:WTF?!? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by clintp ( 5169 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:18PM (#9961229)
    this will be a problem as more efficient, lighter cars share the road with Hummers.
    Sure, lets blame the big, bad, SUV because your car is unsafe.
    I agree. If the weight of safety cages, etc.. make solar powered cars impractical then they're impractical. Suck it up and figure out how to drive a heavy, safe car with solar power, and don't set your sights on highway driving till ya do. Continue making toy "carts" suitable for circular tracks, and practice on rural dirt roads and dry lakebeds.

    Also, the summary writer was political trolling. There was no SUV involved, a "minivan" is hardly an SUV. And striking any lightweight, cheap car at highway speeds would have ripped through this solar "car" and likely killed the driver.

    And about the car. The specs seem to have been pulled from the site, but the Internet Wayback Machine pulled this page: http://web.archive.org/web/20040214072418/www.blue skysolar.utoronto.ca/Car_Inside.html. (I'm sure this'll get pulled as well before the legal mess ensues.)

    "Chassis: Composed of hollow aluminium tubes with sides only slightly thicker than a pop can." They're bragging about this? And running it on a highway?

    Also from the IWM:
    Blue Sky was also presented with the American Solar Challenge Safety Award for outstanding safety practices during the competition [2003 American Solar Challenge!]
    A little premature, I think.
  • by BigChigger ( 551094 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:21PM (#9961270)
    This experimental car apparently didn't meet even the most minimum saftey requirements and should not have been permitted on the public road. I seriously doubt (but have not confirmed) it had a seatbelt, airbags, bumpers or any other safety equipment designed into cars today. Its operation should only have been permitted on a track somewhere where other vehicles could have been removed. I know that there are "rallys" and contests where these cars enjoy the privileges of licensed vehicles, but this article points to the reason they should not be allowed to do so. Now the Canadian government will likely pass some idiotic law constraining the privileges of normal road users on behalf of these experimental vehicles,

    BC

    Note: I'm not against this kind of research, just keep it off the highway.
  • Re:Bikes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mateito ( 746185 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:22PM (#9961292) Homepage
    We also have 6 inch cocks.

    I know this sounds like a troll, but I have a valid point.

    People who drive large cars with the ability to control large cars usually are not the problem. The problem are people who drive large cars and lack either the ability or the personality to control such a large vehicle are the problem.

    In NSW, Australia, you can do your driving test on a 2 door 800c automatic suzuki, then go and jump behind the wheel of a hummer. Sorry, but that's just crazy. (I believe this is now under review, but its been under review for at least the last 20 years) Pilots have to retrain for each new model aircraft they manage, and similary there needs to be classes of vehicles based on transmission type, weight and size. Vans capable of carrying 10 passengers, even if not for commercial gain, should require testing. I get scared when I see a Mother with 10 kids (presumably not all her own) crawling unbelted around the car while she screams abuse at other drivers for every near-collision she's causing.

    The other is a physcological test. If "big car" is a compensation for "small dick". Yeah, rice rockets are a pain in the arse, but when the choice is between contending with 1 tonne of dickhead propelled missile and 4 tonnes of dickhead propelled missile, give me the mag-wheeled Mirage anyday.

    I'd also argue that people under 4'6" shouldn't be allowed to drive some of these big SUVs unless they are suitably modified. In jacking up the seat to see out the window means that they can't depress the brake in reflex time. That's just crazy. (Anybody who's driven between Turramurra and Gordon in the North of Sydney knows exactly the types I'm talking about). If little kids have to be over a height to ride a roller coster, people should have to be over a height limit to drive some vehicles. This isn't discrimination. Its public safety.

    (Note: I am pretty short myself. I can't ride any model Harley except the FatBoy because my feet aren't close enough to the ground!)

    I also agree that Hummers and their like shouldn't be allowed on certain roads. Note that some of the south-bound lanes on the Sydney Harbour Bridge aren't wide enough for the wheel-base of the Holden (Chevy) Suburban. The infrastructure of the city was never designed to cope with this sort of vehicle.

  • Re:Some observations (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MindStalker ( 22827 ) <mindstalker@[ ]il.com ['gma' in gap]> on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:27PM (#9961356) Journal
    What I don't understand is why people havn't tried attaching solar panels to the top of a hybrid and rigging the system to be more battery dependant and only use gas as generator. How feasable is this?
  • by Jeremi ( 14640 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @02:37PM (#9961476) Homepage
    Maybe the car companies should get government funding to develop more energy-concious cars?


    They did, and they didn't. Car companies are happy to take government money, but when it comes time to actually market energy-conscious cars they dig in their heels and file lawsuits until the government gives up and goes away.

  • by alizard ( 107678 ) <alizard&ecis,com> on Friday August 13, 2004 @03:33PM (#9962158) Homepage
    The vehicle's design is not really street-safe - this will be a problem as more efficient, lighter cars share the road with Hummers.

    It sucks that the kid died, but this should be a setback for solar-powered motor vehicle on highways. The safety problems are very probably unsolvable. Bicycles have been on the roads for over a century and motorcycles for almost as long. No technological solution for what happens when car meets bike that keeps the bike or the rider intact has been found. This suggests to me that there isn't one. If a road-safe solar vehicle can't be built, there is no point in pursuing this technology as more than a dangerous hobby any further.

    More to the point, this is NOT an environmental solution. Safety issues aside, every barrel of oil that is conserved by the industrialized countries will be burned by an industrializing Third World, unless carbon-neutral solutions to replace fossil fuel cheaper than the current ones can be found. Therefore, conservation-based approaches to either global warming or running out of oil are uniformly unworkable, no matter how cool the technologies are.

    We need energy replacement, not energy conservation.

    The place for solar cells is in orbital solar arrays as part of a solar power satellite [nasa.gov] network. Power availablilty 24/7/365, no concerns about weather, and no SUV will ever run into a cell array and take it offline. However, this is better adapted as a solution for central station power generation facilities.

    The solution for motor vehicle power? Switch to diesel engines and grow crude oil in energy farms. Even food-grain crop based biodiesel is comparable to price to bin Laden's Finest Middle East oil product, and algae-based biomass grown as part of sewage treatment promises to be quite a bit cheaper than growing it from fuel crops. [unh.edu]

    For more discussion of the implications of this, check my sig.

  • by 0x0d0a ( 568518 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @05:46PM (#9963553) Journal
    You've clearly missed my point. I distinguished between anonymous strangers on Slashdot and the people that knew him and his family:
    If you want grief, let it be the grief from those who can grieve, the people that knew him. Not random, anonymous strangers on Slashdot.


    If my best friend died, you can be sure that I'll be out talking to his family. On the other hand, I'm not going to go through the motions of grief on Slashdot because someone is so wrapped up in tradition that they fail to realize the purpose of that tradition, and how ridiculous it is to expect everyone on Slashdot to drop other concerns and grieve.
  • Re:It's sad (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Halfbaked Plan ( 769830 ) on Friday August 13, 2004 @10:21PM (#9965066)
    Sweeping statistical death models can be tilted whichever way you want.

    An advocate of lower Health System costs could statistically demonstrate that those 1000-1500 people killed each year would cost society much more if they lived longer lingering deaths (said people are those most vulnerable to the smog, they are the people using significantly higher than average healthcare resources).

    I'm not saying it's good that said people die, just that your statistic lets you feel good about what you advocate, and not much more than that.

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