ATI TV Wonder USB 2.0 Reviewed 193
An anonymous reader writes "ViperLair reviews the ATI TV Wonder USB 2.0, a sort of low-rent option for those you want to add a TV tuner or video-in to their machines, but would prefer an outboard piece of equipment instead of cracking open their case and dropping in a daughter board."
The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:5, Informative)
Sometimes portability isn't such a good thing.
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:5, Insightful)
prefer an outboard piece of equipment instead of cracking open their case and dropping in a daughter board.
Ok, exactly _how_ hard is it to open your case. Compared to all the trouble involved in getting new devices to work, setup programs etc. A really bad argument. I guess there might be a percentage or two of the population that cannot, and have noone to help them "cracking open their case...", but are those people likely to buy a TV-tuner anyway ? I have a BT878, just as the parent, and it works great.
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:5, Insightful)
So for them external tv is nice of course.
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:2)
But sure, there are probably a couple of people who'd like to watch tv on their laptops, point taken.
Notebook users (Score:2)
Thank you, ATI - I think I'll be getting one of these babies before too long.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:2)
I think you missed the "AND" in my statement. AND means that you have two statemens, and that that both should be fulfilled. In my case, I said that i think there are few people who cannot do this, and have noone around doing it for them (friend, gf/bf, parent, child, neighbour etc).
Sure there are people going to "CompUSA" and pays for it, but i'd say they are around a percent or two of all total PC owners. Dont you ?
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:2)
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:2)
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:2)
Note that I have just recently bought an internal card, and wish I hadn't for the following reasons:
- the coax cable connector does not fit really well in the slots for the PCI cards.
- with my (Hauppauge WinTV) card came an
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:2)
If you buy it there, you don't have to pay them anything to install it - they will do so for free.
I can't find anything on the website that specifically outlines the free installation guidelines, but trust me, they will install most stuff purchased there for no charge in store. I know because I work there.
Yes.. i know.. shut up, it pays the bills.
Nope just laziness (Score:2)
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:5, Informative)
Of course being a Linux user, my primary concern is driver support. On that front, the Hauppauge wins easily. The driver is part of the standard Linux kernel, and capture support is fantastic. In order to watch TV on the All In Wonder I have to compile my X server with Gatos [sf.net] which takes about 3 hours to do, and there is sometimes quite a bit of lag between a XFree/Xorg release, and support from Gatos. I've never been able to capture video with it, but I'm not really interested in doing that, so I'll blame myself for that. Others seem to be doing it just fine. There is some pretty exciting talk about merging Gatos into Xorg on the mailing list, and I'm hoping all goes well with that effort.
I'll admit to not having read TFA, but I searched it for Linux, and didn't find it mentioned. Anyone have one of these things, and is it useable?
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:5, Informative)
After being a MythTV user for a year or so, I'm amazed this type of thing isn't pretty much ubiquitous among Linux geeks such as muchself.
Product confusion with Hauppauge (Score:2)
A problem with Hauppauge is product confusion. The model number PVR-250 is just a trick number. The real number is 975 or some 3-digit number beginning with 9, and the PVR-250 [hauppauge.com] datasheet doesn't say anything about the real number. A 975 PVR-250 costs maybe $70, and a 980 PVR-250 costs perhaps $120, and there are other numbers, too, apparently.
One of the nastiest aspects of working in technical fields is bored marketing people who don't want to learn about their own products, and don't want to burden thei
Re:Product confusion with Hauppauge (Score:2)
THere's the PVR250 retail, that comes with a remote and shiny box and is around 120 beans. It also has 1/8" stereo jacks for audio input.
The PVR250 MCE has RCA input jacks for audio and no remote since it's presumed that it'll be used in a MCE "class" machine with a separate remote. There are OEM and "retail" flavors.
There's also the blackbird/rosyln oem on
In general, people are not happy w video recording (Score:2)
I've heard this about Hauppauge products a lot: People say they are oversold by the company.
I've had lots of problems with ATI, but those were about PCI video adapter display drivers, not major performance issues.
After reading this and other Slashdot articles on the subject, I get the impression that, in general, people are not happy with video recording products.
--
Bush's education improvements were fraud [cbsnews.com]
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:2, Informative)
Word just came in on the Gatos mailing list that Vladimir has been given CVS write access to Xorg! This should mean that some day soon, we should see TV tuner and capture support for ATI All In Wonder cards being part of the standard Xorg distribution. Congratulations to everyone working on the project.
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:5, Insightful)
The one machine household is becoming a rarity these days.
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:5, Insightful)
A set of jump leads for a car.
Nothing special there you might think, but these were jump leads from cig lighter to cig lighter.
The claimed benefits included not having to get under the hood, and not getting dirty.
Thinking outside the box is not always a bad idea, I can think of many many people who wouldn't know what the battery in their car even looked like. Sure this isn't for everyone, and purists would shudder at the thought, but its a product that has a market.
With usb2, and firewire as standards for moving video data around, why should we worry about having to risk damaging the computer by opening it up?
One other aspect to it, how can I crack open my computer and put in a tv card if I bought a tiny silent desktop, or a laptop computer that has no room for expansion?
Using usb/firewire is much more expansive and practical than your closed view.
I'm pleased your internal card works and your happy with it, but just because your happy/comfortable/able to install the card internally doesn't mean everyone else is.
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:3, Insightful)
Battery -> Starter motor & solenoid -> everything else.
The cigarette lighters take very, very little current in comparison (you can power one from your PC's power pack! [frozencpu.com] ) and the circuitry leading to them is normally only of the guage required.
It is therefore very easy to burn out a
They are not for jump-starting. (Score:2)
You'll probably find that the fag lighter socket is disconnected, along with all the other accessories, when you turn the ignition key.
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:2)
How much current do you think the croc clips on your standard jump leads are capable of? Certainly not the 300A or so that the starter motor needs.
I'd guess that there's not much difference in the current capacity of the croc clips as compared to the cig lighter.
It gets better. (Score:2)
Internal Cards, Lousy Drivers, & BSODs (Score:2)
Ok, exactly _how_ hard is it to open your case.
Okay, exactly how hard is it to write a stable driver for an internal PCI card -vs- how hard is it to write a stable driver for an external USB device?
Or: How many times have you gotten a BSOD from an internal PCI card -vs- how many times have you gotten a BSOD from an external USB device?
And if you don't get BSODs because you use Linux, then: How easy is it to port a driver for an internal PCI card -vs- how easy is it to port a driver for an external US
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:2)
What if you're trying to add the functionality to a laptop, or more usefully, an iMac [apple.com]?
Those nifty new widescreen iMacs don't come with video tuners, nor can you install a card in them, from what I can tell.
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:2)
Re:The problem with external TV tuners... (Score:2)
So hard... (Score:1, Troll)
I've been doing that sort of stuff since I was 9 or 10... It's really not terribly difficult, especially if it gives you simple directions (and all the needed screws - I hate it when I run out of screws).
The only reason I see for USB TV tuners is for laptops or other machines without the ability to add something internally.
Re:So hard... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:So hard... (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:So hard...[OT] (Score:2)
Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Re:So hard... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:So hard... (Score:2, Funny)
You can join me under this rock over here. Yeah, I'm under here for my post being modded down to hell when it wasn't really all that Trollish (and it certainly wasn't Redundant (as was originally modded), being the second or third (maybe fourth) post -- none of the before ones had any relation to mine).
Re:So hard... (Score:1)
Re:So hard... (Score:2)
Re:So hard... (Score:2)
And this was different from how many other posts on
Your post, BTW, is set at 0.
Anybody who wants to see useful posts should set their filter to +3.
I don't, 'cause I don't care.
Re:So hard... (Score:2)
That's
USB 2 can give good video (Score:5, Insightful)
- it uses the PC sound card for the audio
meaning more cables, a little clipping as
my laptop only has a mic level input and less
than perfect sync. All that USB2 bandwidth and
they dont use it for the audio???
- All the PVR software I've tried (apart than
the buggy software that comes with it) is unable
to control the tuner, though if the card is
alredy set to a channel it feeds the other PVRs
OK.
I wanted to setup a TV server for a short while. I ended up connecting the AverMedia to a VCR to guarantee the channel would not lost when the PC rebooted (VERY likely with Windows Media Encoder
Re:USB 2 can give good video (Score:2, Informative)
Re:USB 2 can give good video (Score:2)
Re:USB 2 can give good video (Score:2)
Mac/Linux? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Mac/Linux? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Mac/Linux? (Score:2)
In short, it's as annoying of a solution for us
Re:Mac/Linux? (Score:2)
You are absolutely correct. Go to the head of the class and keep your clue for yourself.
Not that it applys to the subject at hand, but since
Re:Mac/Linux? (Score:2)
Drivers (Score:5, Insightful)
"This device DOES/DOES NOT have drivers for Linux available/in the package/on the website".
That way - we dont have to hunt it down, and we know right away which companies to support.
closed captioning support (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:closed captioning support (Score:3, Informative)
The Hauppauge PVR-250 and PVR-350 cards can do this, at least under Windows. It requires a few registry changes and recent versions of the drivers and WinTV2000. For details, see here [cask-of-amontillado.com].
Re:closed captioning support (Score:2)
I'm quite happy with my VSTREAM "Xpert" DVD Maker USB 2.0 [dealsonic.com]. It's external, small, and supports resolutions up to 720x480. Sure, there is not a "tuner" but that is what my cable box, VCR and other things are for. Simply hook up a DVD player, PS2 or anything else that has A/V cables, even S-Video.
It's allowed me to copy VCR tapes (to XviD) and play console games on my PC. Since all it does is render the pic
Re:closed captioning support (Score:2)
Also, VCRs that can decode closed captions are extremely unusual..
Re:closed captioning support (Score:2)
You can get cool stuff when you buy from crackheads. Everything is 40 bucks(... even DVD's for some reason)
Re:closed captioning support (Score:2)
Grondu is right in that the PVR-250 and PVR-350 CAN capture closed captions, however they can not be played back without processing (to turn it into a text subtitle file, or to author to a DVD) or fiddling with GraphEdit. Also, it records it in a bastard not-entirely-compliant format. It might not work on some players. So, not easily
There are more (Score:5, Informative)
Pinnacle PCTV USB2.0 [pinnaclesys.com]
and am very happy with.
Very small (pack of sgarettes)
Powered through the USB port
Comes with a remote
Sensitive antenna input
Important for the traveller it will do PAL, NTSC, SECAM.
Good software
But so far no luck on Linux...
Re:There are more (Score:2)
Re:There are more (Score:2)
Re:There are more (Score:2)
When doing a lot of I/O I do get a noticeable lag between sound and picture, stopping and restarting fixes it.
A good TV-card under Linux (Score:2)
Re:A good TV-card under Linux (Score:5, Informative)
Important question: Where do you live? Does the area have any kind of digital tv? If so, I'd go for a dvb solution - eliminates the need of encoding your recording, just gotta grab the mpeg stream and save it on the harddisk.
To see what cards are supported in general (analog and digital), a visit to Gerd Knorr's website bytesex.org might be in order...
I personally have two Hauppauge cards, one for normal analog cable and one for DVB-t. The windows drivers are a joke, but they work well in linux...
Re:A good TV-card under Linux (Score:2)
It seems the driver or application has problems with the video overlay. Since I can tune the card and receive teletext, I'm pretty sure the card is in order. The only problem is the picture quality: pitch black.
Re:A good TV-card under Linux (Score:2)
Re:A good TV-card under Linux (Score:2)
I've seen their USB1.1 box for 39 Euro at MediaMarkt in Germany and 75 on Kelkoo. But the video quality of USB1 is limited, noticeable artefacts especially in full screen mode.
Reviewer missed the point (Score:2, Insightful)
And again, he criticises the quality of using co-ax cabling to get the TV signal to the box. Does he have any better suggestions? Wireless? ESP, perhaps. I think this reviewer needs
Re:Reviewer missed the point (Score:2)
"TV on the go"? Whart sort of a hotel does not offer a TV-set?
Re:Reviewer missed the point (Score:2)
The kind my boss likes the price of.
And that's why a sensitive receiver that maybe even works with a simple piece of wire is important, it was not checked at all in this article.
Re:Reviewer missed the point (Score:2)
different cables (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:different cables (Score:3, Informative)
It's not to do with bandwidth. It's more to do with the fact that within the cable the image can bleed (it's analogue, not digital remember). S-Video removes this by giving the major elements of a formable image their own cable each. RGB is technically better by splitting the image into only the parts you can see, but the US don't have a fo
Re:different cables (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, it is difficult to tell, but if you really look closely, you'll see a difference in the quality of the pictures. A good way to find out it to open each picture ( 1 [viperlair.com], 2 [viperlair.com], 3 [viperlair.com]) in a browser-tab (not in a new window); then flip between the tabs and you'll notice the difference.
In the coax picture [viperlair.com] you'll notice the 'color bleed' and distortions: on the face (cheek, mouth) of the referee, and on his left arm (especia
Poor review. No hardware encoding is a feature? (Score:5, Interesting)
The author advises against the use of the coax input. I think it's obvious that anybody with a digital cable box or satellite recevier will be using s-video or composite inputs to this device. Those of us with analog cable or antenna (without a cable box) will use the coax input, of course.
Referring to component video as "aka RCA" is a bit confusing. Component video may use RCA plugs (I've never had a component setup; I'm just guessing), but so does composite video.
The device apparantly does not have video compression hardware onboard, and the reviewer regards this as a feature, because "most of today's PC video compression parts still need work." I, for one, would much rather have an onboard MPEG2 video encoder (an MPEG4 encoder would be even sweeter, but these don't seem to quite be commodity parts yet.) I'm not sure why the reviewer regards video encoding hardware to be sub-par, but I've had excellent results with my PVR350. Not perfect, but much better than dropping frames when my computer is too busy doing something else to service a capture interrupt (*). I was actually pretty disappointed to realize that the device's advertised "capture video in MPEG4 format" actually just meant that they would supply software for the encoding.
(* I suppose that since this is a USB device, raw video would be captured as a stream instead of via capture framebuffer interrupts, but I could still think of better things to do with my CPU cycles and USB bandwidth.)
This review of a review brought to you by: being awake at 4:30am!
Re:Poor review. No hardware encoding is a feature? (Score:2)
"With the exception of the composite connection, we'll be sticking with Monster Cable wires for testing. You pay a little more, but based on experience, we find these cables are of the best quality. Only reason we're not using Monster Cable composite cables is due to budget reasons. However, this will give us a chance to test the Theater 200's filtering."
the review itself also doesn't raise any real points about the product..., like what's the image quality compared to
Re:Poor review. No hardware encoding is a feature? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Playing games (Score:2)
These guys opinion went right in the toilet (Score:4, Informative)
They must have that psychological problem of paying more so they think it works better issue, even though independent tests show no difference.
I think I'll want to sell them the 200$ penis enlarger instead of the 15$ one...
Re:These guys opinion went right in the toilet (Score:2)
Even though I'm not an audio or videophile, the construction of Monster Cables does tend to hold up better then a 2$ cable.
Granted, I don't buy the uber-expensive ones, I do buy their midline versions. The connectors just seem better to me. The cables are thicker and better shielded and the ends are hardier.
It may not matter much, but I have read a lot about 'cross talk' when you get power, video, audio, etc cables a
Why a USB/FireWire device instead of internal (Score:2)
However. It's also a Radeon "7200". I can't upgrade my video card without losing my capture card. Yeah I know, I could get an AIW. But why should I pay more to get exactly the same capture quality and ability? I think I would rather get a regular card, and an add-on capture card.
I also used to have a AIMLab's VHX98 - It was pretty good, but compression added some
Re:Why a USB/FireWire device instead of internal (Score:2)
Because some people carry a laptop when traveling???
Re:Why a USB/FireWire device instead of internal (Score:2)
But there's no "instead" for laptop users, now, is there?
Incomplete review (Score:3, Informative)
He doesn't touch upon how good it grabs crappy signal from cable TV, nor how fast the channels change. He doesn't even review the TiVO-esque function.
I think this is a 1/2 ass review that totally misses the point of having this device, which is being able to use your computer like a normal TV, which includes flipping through the channels. Just lazy!
Not USB powered? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Not USB powered? (Score:2)
I can already seeing people sitting in the train trying to focus their antenna. With an integrated digital receiver you could have something though.
Can't be any worse than the PCI one (Score:2)
I never got it to work. He has a Dell 3.06 HT, and it just wasnt happening. I tried *everything*. Format, SP2, latest drivers, latest DX9, turning off HT (suggestion from support forum), a dozen display resolution / bit depth combos, capturing to different drivers, capturing to different filesystems (NTFS, Fat32, FAT), and probably a half dozen things I don't remember.
Ever
Re:Can't be any worse than the PCI one (Score:2)
another review (Score:2)
e.
Big missing reason... (Score:2)
Or perfect for laptops. (Score:2)
no. no. no. (Score:2)
what?! only if by "now" they mean circa 1998. I have had an Aver TV genie tuner with a VGA D-sub passthrough since then, and I love it for many of the same reasons people will like the external ATI device. However, my TV Genie uses no system resources whatsoever. I never understood why these didn't catch on - I have met dozens of peopl
Re:Looks pretty good (Score:2)
Pisser, yes. But, whatever. I'll deal with the negative impacts as well as the lack of personal gratification of having the ability to tell people that they are saying the same thing as everyone else.
Re:Why the hell is it a "daughter board"? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why the hell is it a "daughter board"? (Score:2)
Re:Why the hell is it a "daughter board"? (Score:5, Funny)
That was possibly the worst thing I have ever posted.
Re:I can't help but thinking (Score:2)
Now that you mention it; I've never been in a hotel/motel room that doesn't have a TV. I think it's a sanity thing, most people feel uneasy in a room without a TV on nowadays. It's even on the list of things that the repo man isn't allowed to take here in the UK, along with fridges/freezers etc.
Would it work on a plane I wonder? You'd constantly have to retune, but it may be possible.
Re:try Formac if you have a Mac (Score:2, Informative)
OT: your sig (Score:2)
Re:OT: your sig (Score:2)
Big surprise.
Like, along with the rest of the planet.
Except the 65 million Christian Zionist fundies in the US, of course.
Re:OT: your sig (Score:2)
I would say at least 51% of this country's citizens don't approve of Shrub; I just hope the vote isn't split like it was last election (which is why I'll save my Libertarian voting for offices other than the President).
Re:OT: your sig (Score:2)
There are 46 million Catholics - not counting Mel Gibson who counts as at least 2 Catholics all on his own.
I'd say a significant percentage of that lot support Bush, but of course actual figures are wanting.
Here is one quote I found:
A June study by The Barna Group, a Christian polling organization, said 86 percen
Re:Dumb reviewer, full of errors. (Score:2)
Just to cma, I know what the author meant. Its just that someone who sa