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Chrono Ressurrection Forced to Cease & Desist 99

Posted by timothy
from the shame dept.
Kethinov writes "The Chrono Ressurrection Project (previously mentioned on /. here), an attempted 3d remake of the popular 2d game Chrono Trigger, has been shut down by Squenix in the form of a cease and desist letter. Quoth their website, "it is with our deepest regrets in that we have to announce the closure of the Chrono Resurrection project. Square Enix Co., Ltd recently issued a Cease and Desist letter which will mean the project is closed indefinitely." The site retains two trailers and a number of screenshots."
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Chrono Ressurrection Forced to Cease & Desist

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  • by tod_miller (792541) on Wednesday September 08, 2004 @10:20AM (#10188626) Journal
    Remove all trademarks, and you are golden. Perhaps do a rockstar, and rename all the car names in a quirky way.

    The screenshots look awesome, keep the engine and just remove trademarks.

    beautiful screenshot [opcoder.com]

    Good luck to 'em
    • yes, if the game was worth playing just because of the names it wasn't worth squat in the first place.

    • But doesn't the story come from the original game? I don't think you can keep the story while changing the names etc.
    • by bear pimp (695195) on Wednesday September 08, 2004 @11:04AM (#10189153)
      OR: come up with your own story and characters, THEN you are truly golden.

      So much effort went into this, but why didn't he just come up with his own ideas instead of ripping off other people's? He would not have problems if he had his own story, characters and world and only used Chrono Trigger as the inspiration for the gameplay mechanic. Then we would have even more respect for what he was trying to achieve.
      • by 88NoSoup4U88 (721233) on Wednesday September 08, 2004 @11:29AM (#10189497)
        Mwoah ; i don't agree on those points ;

        This was a Fan project ; they loved the game, think it would even rock more in 3D : And went along and (almost) did it.

        Maybe this project has shown them that they -do- have the capabilities to create alot of assets, and they might want to go on ; in the direction you say.

        Respect, on my side, is not lost ; Just because they used a world/story/game , and ported it to their vision :
        In that mindset ; -every- sequel of -every- game, would not get as much respect as the 'first' ; and that is not the case (taking Super Mario Bros. as an example)

        • There's a critical difference; it's perfectly legal for Nintendo or a third-party who has obtained permission from Nintendo to make a sequel or other game using the Mario Bros. and the attendant characters and other properties associated with it. And, even then, it would, unless they'd been specifically remaking one of the earlier games, be a new game.

          Speaking for myself, while I'm impressed with the technical work done, and with their dedication to the massive job involved, their choice to work over a pre
      • by Anonymous Coward
        He would not have problems if he had his own story, characters and world and only used Chrono Trigger as the inspiration for the gameplay mechanic.

        True.

        Then we would have even more respect for what he was trying to achieve.

        False.

        If there hadn't been the Chrono Trigger connection, who would have cared? It'd just have been Yet Another Unfinished Game Concept; a handful of people would have glanced at it and said "oh, nice lighting", the rest of the world would have ignored it, and they'd have given up
      • For the record, I'm all in favor of this. Of course it's harder to create your own work than to update something else, as you'll have a large amount of story writing to do, new assets to create, a game system to invent, etc., but if they've got this level of engine done already, and have people capable of creating these kinds of character models, then they've already got a good first step.
    • I agree, just change the characters and story and that should be okay. Granted, this is a lot of work, but to have come so far, they've probably learned enough that building something truly original should be within reach. Indeed, now they can just let their imaginations run wild!
    • Yea, I am sure that the developers could easily do their own thing with this now using their own story/characters... but, I think the point of the whole project was that they really loved the Chrono Trigger game/world/characters/story and wanted to work with that material. The video really shows how awesome this project could be if it were to ever be completed. This looks MUCH more appealing to me than anything Square has come up with since FFX and it actually looks better than FFX as well. It seems to d
      • that they really loved the Chrono Trigger game/world/characters/story and wanted to work with that material.,

        I saw that - which is why I suggested the renaming trick to avoid copyright, keep the ethos, but not the trademarks.

        Of course, they should make entirely new material, and use thier nice engine and skills to make it a great collaborative RPG which they sell for 15 EUR or 25 EUR for a MMORPG version with 6 months of server thrown in.

        Never played a square game, except 42.1 seconds of FF7.
  • by Dark Lord Seth (584963) on Wednesday September 08, 2004 @10:23AM (#10188645) Journal

    Constantly rehashing Squaresoft titles into new titles with only minor and insignificant changes is the only way Square-Enix makes games nowadays.

    Can't have your biggest fans steal your business model, hmm?

    • This raises an interesting point. This has been around for a while now, as well as a simmilar project (see below), and only now gotten smacked. Makes me wonder if they might be planning a re-remake of Chrono Trigger on the GBA or other platform(s), which a lot of fans have been pining for (Personally, I'd rather have a new Chrono game, or better yet, a new original game, than a third or fourth iteration to a game I pretty much mastered in middle school).

      As I said above, there was another simmilar project c
  • These folks shouldn't have caved in so quickly.
  • this is rubbish.. stupid squaresoft... This was looking really really good.

    One can only hope they carry on in secret, and it gets leaked.. or like someone suggested change the names a little.

    So does this mean square are thinking of making a 3d version..... I very much doubt it.. damn party poopers....

    • If anything, they're thinking of a GBA port, which is begged for by fanboys to the extent that one guy on GameFAQs claimed to have offered to personally service every member of the comittee that gave the green light to such a port. A PS2 port is meaningless, since there's a PS1 port. I'm almost willing to bet there will be a PSP port at some point. A GameCube port isn't out of the question, since Square and Nintendo are friends again, but even that will likely be no different than the PSX port. A Wonderswan
      • From what I recall, Microsoft had handed Square a really big check for an exclusive XBox RPG...

        ..wait for it, here's the funny part...

        ...Microsoft then cancelled it.

        I think it was a MMORPG, even. True Fantasy, I think it was called. Research time!

  • Why can a C&D letter make one give up of a project in wich probably he has spent so much time? I would call my lawyer first, and to be honest I would call him BEFORE starting the friggin project. If we start to obey to those nasty letters, in no time almost all free/open software will vanish.
    • People like them respond without any back action to C&D because they respect and admire the company that made the game they are basing their remake of the 10 best scenes off from.

      With this and Chrono Trigger being, well as it seems, the best RPG of all time(pun intended) then why would you want to piss off SquareEnix for doing a project devoted to the game you and so many love? You wouldn't. You'd just hope they shut you down because they saw the crowd forming and think they might put their expert han
  • by dtfinch (661405) *
    And I just bought one of their games. Now my stomach is starting to turn.
  • by tod_miller (792541) on Wednesday September 08, 2004 @10:33AM (#10188755) Journal
    Awesome * pi ^ tan(90)

    Great work on this, I think it was a closed source endeavour?

    The engine is his XUEngine, with the following tools.

    - XuStudio (World Editor, Character Editor, Particle Editor, Cinema Editor)
    - XuExporter
    - XuViewer
    - XuConverter

    I'd love to have a go with these tools, the work is good quality.

    *cough*open source*cough* think about dual licensing, open source GPL and a commercial license.

    I am not sure how those work in though, IANAL.
    • *cough*open source*cough* think about dual licensing, open source GPL and a commercial license.

      Hell, here's an idea! Let's made a game called Jedi Knight. It will be an FPS shooter. Our main characters will be "Kyle Katar" and "Luke Skywalker!" The story will revolve around... hell, let's just copy the story and levels from this game over here! And, because it's open source, nobody will be able to stop us!

      Please.

      Making it open source wouldn't make it legal. Lawsuits would still happen, and even S

      • Heres an idea (Score:3, Informative)

        by tod_miller (792541)
        Read my post. I said open source the engine. I said remove copyrights/trademarks.

        Except for the first line (my beautiful words) the rest was pretty redundant.

        And, because it's open source, nobody will be able to stop us!

        Hey you can't spell Open Source with out SCO dontchaknow.
        • Yep, you're right.

          And by doing so, you'll only feed the rhetorical flames that Open Source gaming is only concerned with ripping off commercial companies because they're too cheap to buy the real thing.

          It doesn't matter how much time you actually spent writing the new version of the game, or the dollar value of that time, if calculable. All that matters, in the end, is how the commercial company sells the idea that you're ripping them off to whomever will listen.

          Much better idea to open-source the core c
          • Uhhh, I don't recall seeing anything in his comment indicating opensourcing their new version of the game itself.... I read and reread his comment and as far as I can tell he was expressing admiration for and referring specifically to the game engine and tools - completely separate from the resurrection content....
  • I tried this from a pic on his site, and it was googles birthday!

    http://www.opcoder.com/images/funny/frenchmilgoo gl e.jpg

    well, it didn't work for me.

    Happy birthday anyway google (note link is on that dudes site, so kinda on topic)
  • by xDCDx (635101) on Wednesday September 08, 2004 @10:46AM (#10188930)
    I am a bit skeptic about this kind of fan games (although Maniac Mansion Deluxe was really impressive), but when I saw the trailer I was really stunned. Give it a try!

    It is a shame Square (and all big corporations really) is so annoying with a non comercial project that would even give a boost to Chrono series popularity and pave the way for a third official game in the series.

    I am all for closing people profiting from other's trademarks, but when hardcore fans do a game/hack/mod/expansion just for the pleasure of doing it without gaining a penny... I don't understand why companys force them to cancel these projetcs.
    • I am a bit skeptic about this kind of fan games (although Maniac Mansion Deluxe was really impressive), but when I saw the trailer I was really stunned. Give it a try!

      It is a shame Square (and all big corporations really) is so annoying with a non comercial project that would even give a boost to Chrono series popularity and pave the way for a third official game in the series.

      I am all for closing people profiting from other's trademarks, but when hardcore fans do a game/hack/mod/expansion just for the pl
  • by Canthros (5769) on Wednesday September 08, 2004 @10:46AM (#10188937)
    Disclaimer: IANAL, but...

    Look, Square is required to defend, vigorously, its trademarks and copyrights. If they don't, they lose them, and that could cut into their profits significantly. Furthermore, this crosses way beyond any legitimate extrapolation of fair use. Just as translating a book into another language or re-scoring a song for another set of instruments requires the permission of the original copyright-holder, re-implementing a game down to the plot, character designs, and underlying system of mechanics is stepping past the boundaries of fair use. There is no way they could legally have distributed or published this project with Squeenix's permission.

    It looks like the folks involved have talent and skill, maybe they should be working on making their own game, instead of copying somebody else's? They'd have to start from scratch in many areas, but the screenshots certainly look like they have a suitable graphics engine, and seems like a demonstration of general know-how in the area. Why shouldn't they leverage what they've learned to create a new, different game which isn't someone else's idea warmed over and regurgitated?
    • They could have distributed and published this if Squeenix had given them permission (say with a license agreement to Squeenix covering reproductions). Game companies, among other media companies, have given things away for free to the community. It's not like Valve gave up it's rights to their 3D modeler program (Milkshape or something like that) by giving it away for free. It honestly would be no different from Nintendo having Rare make a game for them back in the day.
      • by Blakey Rat (99501) on Wednesday September 08, 2004 @11:12AM (#10189232)
        Yeah, but did they even ask?

        Here's two scenarios:

        1) You have a few buddies and you want to make a rename of Chrono Trigger for PC. You send a politely-worded request to the legal department at Square-Enix asking about the legal status of the game and for permission to re-use some of its assets in a way that is harmless to future Square-Enix games. The lawyer at the company reads this politely-worded email.

        2) You have a few buddies and you go ahead and start making a clone of Chrono Trigger without asking permission from anyone. You steal all the art, music, and sound effects assets. You create trailers for your clone and promote it all over the Internet. The lawyer at the company, tipped off by someone, sees this all happening.

        Which situation do you think would make Square-Enix happier? If these guys didn't ask permission, then it's GOOD they were shut down because they're idiots anyway. On the other hand, if they did ask permission, were granted it, and now Square-Enix is pulling a 180, then the company certainly has its head way up its ass.

        So, in summary, I need more information to judge for sure. I'd wager these guys never asked permission in the first place.
        • That sounds good in theory, but things don't really work that way, especially in America.

          In America a company or individual is required to defend their copyrights or they risk losing their rights to them.

          This means that in America if you write to a company or author asking to use their work they're almost guaranteed to say no. Even if they don't actually mind, since you've brought it to their attention in a legal sense they're usually afraid of the legal complications and just say no by default. I imagi

          • In America a company or individual is required to defend their copyrights or they risk losing their rights to them.

            Nope, trademarks need to be defended by the holder or risk dilution. Copyrights don't need to be defended.

            However if you just quietly work on the project, don't publicize it very much, and don't attempt to make money off it, some authors/companies are willing to look the other way since they have plausible deniablity about its existance.

            There is nothing stopping them from continuing to w

        • I am a close friend to some of the artists in the project. Here are some facts : 1) None of the original assets were used. Its all Fan-Art. 2) Square was contacted to ask permission to do this. 3) Square never answered that letter. 4) Square was contacted again asking about the first letter. 5) Square never answered that letter either.
      • My apologies. That would be a typo that crept past my proof-reading. The last sentence to the second paragraph of my previous comment should have read:
        There is no way they could legally have distributed or published this project with
        out Squeenix's permission.
        To my knowledge, you are correct; explicitly giving permission for a property to be used by a third party without recompense does not, legally, invalidate one's rights to that property in the future.
      • Square Enix does not want the game to be released due to the fact that it would be in direct competition with their own titles. I'm sure the last thing any company wants is someone creating a product from the company's own material and then give it away free. Each person playing the free version is a gamer who isn't buying a square enix game to play. You really couldn't have expected the company to do otherwise.
    • I wholeheartedly agree. I think the game looks great, though I was skeptical before I saw the screen shots. These guys have talent and drive, they should try to make their own game.

      Likely, though, these are talented artists and craftsmen... but not game-makers and storytellers. If they were the latter, it seems they would settle for nothing else than their own world and game.

      Square Enix has a right (and a duty to fans of their work) to defend not only their copyright, but their standards of quality.

    • Chrono isn't a trademark. A trademark is just what the name implies, a mark for your trade. The word 'squaresoft' is a trademark. It identifies the game publisher called squaresoft. Trademarks, like businesses, can exist pretty much forever. This is reasonable since you're likely to pass your business on to your kids and you don't want another business pretending to be them. But we still need some way to expire trademarks, and that's why they have to be defended.

      Copyright doesn't have to be defended. You
      • Chrono isn't a trademark. A trademark is just what the name implies, a mark for your trade. The word 'squaresoft' is a trademark. It identifies the game publisher called squaresoft. Trademarks, like businesses, can exist pretty much forever. This is reasonable since you're likely to pass your business on to your kids and you don't want another business pretending to be them. But we still need some way to expire trademarks, and that's why they have to be defended.

        Copyright doesn't have to be defended. You c
    • Square could defend it's trademarks by licensing them.

      They don't need to defend their copyrights.

      Really, check the law.
    • Actually, there is one way.

      SquareEnix could have offered to distribute it as a PC update of ChronoTrigger. They're releasing PC versions of Final Fantasy. Buy the project off of them and distribute it for-profit. It's a bit unorthodox maybe, but I think most fans would buy it. Square gets a low-cost, high-quality port of one of its most popular games, made by people who obviously love the franchise, and gets to sell it as a budget title ala Serious Sam, thew developers get paid for their work and get t
  • by Anonymous Coward
    I don't really get why this is such a big deal. Square have every right to send out a C&D letter in this case; they own the rights to the original game. Whatever you think of the law in this case, there's no denying that Square are perfectly within it. Maybe they're planning to re-release or remake the game themselves (see the previous re-releases of the old Final Fantasy games).

    To be honest, the real question here is why anybody would be so dumb as to sink so much time and effort into a project like t
    • They already re-released Chrono Trigger for PSX, just like they did with the FF games (http://www.icybrian.com/games/chronotrigger/remak e.php). The game was identical except for animated cutscenes and enhanced music.
    • There's plenty of reasons why people would like to re-use characters.

      Humans are social animals, and they do like to repeat memes, stories, characters, and other things that they take in. Copyrights are a very artificial barrier and go against this natural tendancy.

      Personally, it took me years of cognitive dissonance to even accept that copyright exists and that it's not just a bad dream. It just feels natural to me to extend upon prior material, particularly when I feel particularly attached to it, which
    • Dojinshi and what not. They probably didn't expect a cease and desist, since Japan is traditionally pretty lax about this sort of thing. Heck, it's encouraged. I guess it's another sign of corporate America cramming our ideals down everyone's throats. Oh well, square's been becomming more and more about money making lately anyway. And yes, I know making money is important, but there are some things you just don't do to your fan base (FFX-2 anybody?).
    • They have every right to send a C&D letter any time they wish, for whatever reason, as long as doing so
      is not a criminal act. We have the right to disregard their letters and snicker up our sleeves.
      If you want to take my stuff down, you need a court-order, buddy.
  • Why is everyone hating so bad on Square/Enix?

    It is their game.

    I have an idea. I am going to redo the Star Wars trilogy but I am going to make it all in cartoon format and then release it for free to the internet and expect to not get told to stop by LucasArts. The developers knew this time would come what they were hoping on was a buyout by Square for their idea and work. What they didn't realize is that Square could churn this out faster then they could spending all of their saved money.
    • It's not so much about who owns what or what rights anyone has, it's more down to common sense. Are McDonald's going to sue me because I print my own "I love McDonald's" T-Shirts? They just might but you have to ask yourself, what would be the point? You are destroying your own customer's opinion of you.

      They meant no harm, they are actually helping to propogate your brand, their little silly project isn't going to step on the toes of your next official release but yet they want to send a cease and desis
      • Umm...this wouldn't help Squenix because instead of people going out and buying the PSX version of Chrono Trigger they would just download the FREE and 3D version. Of course lets not fail to mention again that they are legally obligated to defend their IP or lose it.
        • Well, this wasn't meant to be the full game. It was only going to be 10 scenes that the developers themselves choose. So a person going out to download those would probably be lost and wouldn't understand the game because the scenes probably jump all over the place
  • by Gangis (310282) on Wednesday September 08, 2004 @11:01AM (#10189115) Journal
    Disclaimer: IANAL!

    I've been working on an "unofficial sequel" [uct2.net] of Chrono Trigger for a number of years now, albeit slowly. We're now at the point where our development is progressing much faster than ever before. Last night when I found out about this, I started writing a letter to the EFF [eff.org] in order to consult with them regarding the legal implications of creating a not-for-profit derivation of a commercial game made a decade ago. The way I look at it, after researching a few court cases, such as the Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music [cornell.edu], which ruled that it is legal to parodize a commercial project, AS LONG AS one does not market it commerically. However, UCT2 isn't a parody in the sense that it makes fun of Chrono Trigger. It's a honest-to-goodness sequel that closes up a lot of plot holes that Chrono Trigger and the bastard sequel, Chrono Cross, created.

    I used to think that as long as I wasn't duplicating the product and wasn't marketing it at all, and making it available for free download, I would be safe from any legal issues but in light of the cease-and-desist order for CT:R, I'm starting to get nervous. I mean, I'm no match for a team of highly paid corporate lawyers.
    • God people are stupid.

      Let me ask you this: DID YOU ASK PERMISSION BEFORE YOU STARTED?

      Why are people on the internet so rude? If you took one of my programs and decided to write a 'remake' or 'sequel' of it, I would HOPE you'd at least pop me an email. It's common courtesy if nothing else.

      Plus if they DO say no, you haven't wasted those years of work for a product you can't release.
      • Did I say that I didn't ask for permission? I emailed Square a few years ago, professionally presenting my ideas and asked for one. After a week without a reply, I sent another, still no reply. Then I decided to just go ahead and go with it, since they apparently didn't care enough to defend their trademark to reply. A simple one word "no" would've been enough to stop it back then. Please, don't make assumptions.
        • Wow you send an Email to a corperation aim and it doesnt' get a timely reply?

          Duh. Happens all the time (Sadly). When it is a big issue like this you need to make more serious efforts and send written letters to multiple departments and aimed at specific individuals. Otherwise you get lost in the email filter most companies tend to have. I suspect Square-Enix gets a few hundred random emails a day, many junk from leet fans and non-fans. That's inpart while no one payed attention. Email can be used for only

          • Yeah, I suppose you're right. It was several years ago, in fact I was 16 then and didn't have much common sense. Well, it's a bit too late for that. We're going to see what happens, hopefully EFF will reply to my snailmail letter.
    • People are stupid. They get a C&D letter from some lawyer, and they cave. What a waste of protoplasm.
      Ignore them. If you get a court order, *then* you have a legal obligation to move your content offshore.
      Until then, it's play time.
  • by 88NoSoup4U88 (721233) on Wednesday September 08, 2004 @11:13AM (#10189239)
    I wonder if the team asked for permission beforehand ; Most likely not.

    Still, a shame that such a project (which seemed to be making quite some progress) gets shut down : Hell, they are not doing it for the profit ; but purely because of being a fan of the (imo fantastic) Chrono Trigger.

    On the topic of asking permission ;

    About a year ago, I have started porting a semi-2d port of a classis arcade game (Elevator Action) to the HL2 engine.
    Knowing that 'getting foxed' is something quite possible these days, I thought beforehand to ask Namco for some sort of permission ... and to this day, have not received -any- replies from Namco :

    I am not saying that Namco and their lawyers should be replying to me within a week ; but at least (after sending about 7 e-mails to different adresses) they should let me hear -something- : I almost am sure I -would- hear something (maybe within that one week timespan) if I would go along in making it, and calling it 'Elevator Action'

    For now, I am continuing on the development of it ; and am considering to just name it something completely different (no 'elevator' or 'action' in the title) : just in case ; but keeping the exact same gameplay... I might even call the dude Otto ;)

    • The parent makes a very good point.

      Yeah, corporations should defend their trademarks, but what about when you politely ask if you can do a non comercial spinoff based on their property and they think: "Bah, kids" not even telling you "Yes, go ahead" or "No, that would piss us off", only later to send you a cease and desist letter.
    • Half-Life 2D (now called Codename: Gordon) was foruntately able to get permission from Valve (and whoever) to do their little project. Hell, it's available through Steam. But that's gotta suck, man. Maybe if you wrote an actual letter to their legal department or called the legal department, you might have gotten somewhere. Then again, they might have blown you off as well.
    • Did you just send email, or did you write an actual letter?

      I'd get a lawyer to write an actual letter (on paper!) to their legal department about it and see what kind of results that gets you. Email is disposable; assuming your message wasn't blacklisted as spam, it's really really easy to hit "delete" and get rid of it for good. To get results, you need paper.
      • I have been thinking about this (no, i have not send them snail mail) : But i was , to call it the least, astonished, that nowadays, with copyright infringements beings slapped on anyone that -might- not have an original work ; emailing to several departments (from legal to customer-service/information) results in no reply at all.

        Ahwell, thanks for the advice :)

    • You should call it Escalator Violence!!! :D
    • Dude, if one weren't legally allowed to do something like this, we wouldn't HAVE a games industry....

      We certainly wouldn't have Shockwave or Flash gaming, most of which make it a point to rip off at least one pre-existing arcade, PC or Nintendo game.
  • LEAK IT! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by IshanCaspian (625325) on Wednesday September 08, 2004 @11:31AM (#10189546) Homepage
    This project is looking way too awesome to let the whole thing just roll over and die. Leak all the source code, let someone set up an anonymous CVS in Russia, and let the development continue as a kind of black market thing. I'd totally contribute code to it. Square trying to prevent us from continuing development in the most legitimate way is absolutely no excuse for not driving the whole project underground.

    Stage a hack or something, and get that code out there!
    • I might be wrong on this, but I think they were doing this using XBox/Gamecube development kits, thereby making it pretty much useless to open the source to
  • You know (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jayhawk88 (160512) <jayhawk88@gmail.com> on Wednesday September 08, 2004 @11:55AM (#10190029)
    Not trying to be an asshole here or anything, but I really have to wonder why anyone associated with this project ever thought it would end in any way other than this.

    Chrono Cross, while not a direct sequal to Trigger, is still based on the same game universe (sort of, lots of time travel and dimensional weirdness going on in both games stories), and is just now coming up on it's 5th anniversary. This isn't like someone trying revive dead franchises like Star Control or whatever. Square still owns the rights to the "Chrono Universe", and it would not be suprising in the least to see another Chrono-based game from them in the very near future.

    Added into this is that Square already has a history themselves of reviving their older Final Fantasy games with updated graphics, new CGI movies, and other stuff. In fact Chrono Trigger itself was part of the Final Fantasy Chronicles package along with Final Fantasy IV.

    In other words, there's just no way Square could allow this project to continue, seeing as how the Chrono Universe is still an active viable property. I'm sure people associated with Chrono Ressurrection were only motivated by their love for the original Chrono Trigger game, but come on: what did you expect would happen?
  • That's very dumb of Square-Enix....

    in days where they keep rehashing their own games themselves, why do this to a team that does it for free ??

    Heck ... let them finish and buy the product, and release it yourself ....

    I don't know really, but just not THAT. I mean ... every single RPGer I've met loves CT. Square outta know that, as a company, they should try to take advantage of that, now they're killing it.

    Actually ... after posting this, I'll start working on a petition and I'll post the URL after, I r
  • by devnull17 (592326) on Wednesday September 08, 2004 @12:02PM (#10190159) Homepage Journal

    You've got to wonder what these people were thinking from the get-go. Square (even pre-acquisition) has a history of, errrm, aggressive litigation. I remember that Final Fantasy Online had some fun exchanges with their lawyers a few years back.

    Not to mention the fact that they're Japanese. In addition to the Japanese corporate culture, where non-traditional ways of doing business don't make it very far, it would also be very difficult to buy up infringing assets (that are probably completely incompatible with whatever development tools they use in-house) from a few foreigners who literally don't even speak the same language as the rest of their development staff.

    The real surprise to me in all of this is that there are people talented enough to produce work of this quality (it looks excellent), and yet stupid or naive enough to think that they'd be able to distribute it legally or sell it to a major multinational corporation headquartered on the other side of the world.

    I mean, I like seeing projects like this, but it seems like a little bit of forethought would have prevented thousands of hours of wasted effort. It truly is a shame.

  • Why wouldn't Square Enix want to tap these people to develop the game for them? Didn't Valve do something similar with the team developing the Team Fortress mod for Half Life?

    It seems like this way they could still protect their IP and cash in on sales of the game. While I can't speak for every fan of the original game, I know my mouth was watering when I watched the trailer.

    --
    • Well, probably because they don't appear to be a company, just a loose coalition of individuals working really hard. It seems to me that the smart thing to do would be for the leader to establish a company, handle all the paperwork and get a tax license, and then approach Square-Enix as a business.

      I'm not sure how much licenses usually cost, but it seems to me that since they weren't expecting to make any money on it in the first place, perhaps they could work out some ridiculous deal with Squeenix to let
    • Because Square is quite capable of making their own damn games, maybe?
      • Because Square is quite capable of making their own damn games, maybe?

        Ooh, a fanboy. Sorry I offended you.
        Even so, that's a matter of opinion. And since we're speaking of opinions, if you ask me, Square Enix's recent offerings have been pure crap.

        I'm talking about this from a business perspective. A remake of a game with as large a subscribership as Chrono Trigger is sure to draw sales. And considering the fact that a good portion of the devlopment has already been done for free, Square Enix h
        • I hate Square, and RPG's in general. I just think it's really fucking stupid when something happens like this and automatically people jump in saying "Well, they should have just picked up development from the fans." No, they should not have. It is not in any way in their interest to do so. Okay, a large portion of development was done. How much? Was it more than Square, or any other company, could do in six months or so?
  • No-win situation. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by huchida (764848) on Wednesday September 08, 2004 @01:50PM (#10191863)
    There is absolutely no way that Square-Enix would let a couple of no-name dudes re-make one of their games for the hell of it. Square-Enix is a multi-million dollar entertainment corporation, not some cool guy who makes cool games. These guys knew this and did it anyway hoping to either fly under the radar or get some attention before being shut down (which they have.)

    Or, possibly, they though they'd knock Square-Enix's socks off with their amazing rendition and either get bought out or hired. Lots of people try this kind of thing-- sending unsolicited Simpsons scripts to Fox, etc. Unfortunately it never works-- legal dept.'s never even let decision makers see home-brewed efforts for fear of a later lawsuit if they have a similar idea. If Square didn't squash this and decided to make a 3-D version of Chrono Trigger in the future (which is a possibility, didn't they update early Final Fantasies?) these guys could potentially sue if it seems that Square-Enix appropriated any of their ideas and designs. In any event if they let this get distributed it could conceivably harm potential sales of a 3-D Chrono Trigger.

    Whatever the motivation, this thing didn't have a shot and it's all their fault. It was a foolish endeavor to waste their time on. They seem talented, though, so I hope this effort at least works as a portfolio piece to get them jobs... And I'm betting it will, if they choose to follow up on it.

    • IANAL, but I don't think you're right. Even if Square-Enix makes a CT remake that looks almost identical, they could not be sued. Well, they might be able to be, but SE could counter-sue saying that the only reason they're being sued is because a group of people stole their copyright. So the original case would be dropped, and the people that were making this game would likely still be sued.

      I do think it's too bad, I was really looking forward to getting to play the CT remake.
    • These guys knew this and did it anyway hoping to either fly under the radar or get some attention before being shut down (which they have.)

      Oh, the irony. If their project were anything less than first class mega-awesome, then those trailers wouldn't have been so popular, and they would have certainly remained under that damned radar. They're victims of their own skill.
  • That was one of the best trailers that i have ever seen. Just about the best game that i have seen an individual make. I really wish that SE gave it their blessing. Or at least offered him a job. THat was some good work.
  • ...if some people are working on trying to remake ChronoTrigger, how about re-releasing the game onto a different platform. If I remember right, it was a Super NES game, and had not been ported elsewhere.
  • by Josiwe (703514)
    Look, at the moment, the only way a nostalgic fanboy can play chrono cross is to buy an old copy of the game. That money goes to squarenix. Who would buy an old snes cartridge though, if an awesome updated version was available for free?? What the group should do is send a letter to squenix saying, if we turn over all commercial rights and ownership of the game to you, and only ask for creative credit, can we keep working on this game? You can sell it for 39.99 and it will make a crapload of money, and you
    • Funny.

      I bought New copies of Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross with in the last few months. Chrono Trigger has a PSX re-release with Final Fantasy 4. Chrono Cross was greatest hits and can be bought in the same places you can get a copy of Tactics or FF7.

  • Don't tell ANYONE about your remake project until release cos the companies that own the IP are F*CKERS! Oh yeah, and remain anonymous to avoid being sued.

    (damn, I was looking forward to playing Chrono-remake. Now I'm just gonna have to boycott Square Enix *forever* cos they are a bunch of money hungry sh*ts who aren't in it for the love of games).
  • If the game is as good as the screenshots i saw, then it has legs to stand on it's own
  • I think most of you are mis-understanding what they where doing.
    The CT:R project was a project to remake the 10 best scenes from chrono trigger into a playable game. It won't have the whole game, and thats why you saw many things from different places *so far the begining and 600AD stuff, as thats what they finished.*

    For those who think it's illegal to do this *i read some craptastic posts about how this is different than translating a book or re-implimenting a game*, Yes it was technically, because it
    • Here's what I still don't get, if the game wasn't for profit, how could it possibly hurt their sales? The way I see it, what all these big companies do is look for a fan game that's getting lots of props, shut it down, steal the idea, and pass it off as their own. I think that was the whole reason behind reissuing all those NES games for the GBA.

Mirrors should reflect a little before throwing back images. -- Jean Cocteau

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