Trouble for Tivo and NetFlix Partnership? 217
lucabrasi999 writes "Well, things may not not be as good for the potential joining up of Netflix and Tivo as once thought. Herb Greenberg, of CBS Marketwatch has a commentary which hints that this deal may not be as great as it once appeared. Why? In short, distribution rights. It appears that Netflix may not legally distribute all of the movies in it's library via Tivo. As a side note, Netflix may also be feeling some economic pressure. It now forces all cancellations occur by phone, making it more difficult to cancel because of a long hold time."
Cancelation times (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Cancelation times (Score:4, Informative)
Netflix may also be feeling some economic pressure.
Just an FYI.
Re:Cancelation times (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Cancelation times (Score:5, Informative)
NetFlix doesn't require you to phone in cancellations. I cancelled my membership yesterday with just a few clicks. I've never been a member of another subscription service (especially one with a free trial) that made it this easy.
You don't even have to have all of your movies in befor you cancel. Just return within 7 days. I highly recommend NetFlix to anyone willing to pay $23 per month for movies.
from the article's author (Score:3, Informative)
Good catch. They changed it back since last week. Too bad the company won't
take my calls! Wonder why they changed it back! Tell me that. Herb
Re:Cancelation times (Score:2, Funny)
Games'n'Flix for example is a mess. My girlfriend and I setup an account and after atleast a month didn't even recieve so much as an email. And then found we coudn't log back in. We email there support multiple times asking for help and didn't get any response. She then decided, to send standard email threatening to cancel the account, something to the effect of I haven't
Uniform Consumer Code (Score:5, Informative)
Could some inspiring Business Major retort the Uniform Consumer Rights for us? Off the top of my head, which will not be a good verbatim translation, it states that:
A cancellation of an order must be accepted as in the method original ordered in or in a manner that is faster in speed. Meaning that if signed up electronically than they have to accept an electronic cancellation or any means that would be faster. Like if I signed up via mail than if they have a means of electronic cancellation than they have to accept that too all the while accepting the mail as a cancellation method.
Re:Uniform Consumer Code (Score:4, Informative)
AOL is the same way (Score:5, Funny)
Really, why?
Don't want it.
But have you seen our super new optimized enhanced keyword system?
Yes, don't like it.
What didn't you like?
I just want to cancel.
We're just trying to determine why you were unsatisfied
Perhaps it's things like this that make me unsatisfied.
What exactly do you not like about the cancellation process?
JUST CANCEL ME!!!!!
Re:AOL is the same way (Score:5, Funny)
Incidentally, the most fun cancellation experience I've ever had was when I tried to cancel my Discover card. The guy made me an offer which was, honestly, very good, and I would have gone with it had I not already consolidated all my debt onto a different card. I told him I wasn't interested. He asks "Why aren't you interested in getting a better deal?" I said, "Look, I agree with you that it's a better deal. But now you're trying to sell me on it, and in the process you're making me feel stupid. I'd rather not do business with a company that tries to make me feel stupid, I'm just an asshole like that." I was cancelled and off the phone in fifteen seconds.
Nowadays, you just gotta be rude, man. It saves you a lot of hassle. Being polite to phone folks is playing right into their hands. Fuck it, you'll never see or hear this guy again, insult him and his entire worldview if it gets him off your phone a little quicker. The sanity you save might be your own.
Discover is the worst! (Score:2)
Then, 2 years later, they sent me a new card, saying my old one expired. They never canceled it at all. Then when I called to cancel it again, they went through the same routine. I started yelling obscenely at the poor guy and finally he canceled my credit card.
Re:AOL is the same way (Score:5, Funny)
I would then say, "Do you like cheerios", hitting his sternum with my knuckle on each syllable.
"NO" he might yell
"Why Do You Not Like Cheer-E-Oos"?
and so on, until I got bored with it. I had no idea I could apply this working for AOL!
Re:AOL is the same way (Score:2)
Re:AOL is the same way (Score:2, Informative)
Thank god, I'm not there for very long...
Re:Uniform Consumer Code (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Uniform Consumer Code (Score:2)
(Yes, I'm sure I wasn't the only one to come up with that idea.)
Re:Uniform Consumer Code (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Uniform Consumer Code (Score:2)
Re:Uniform Consumer Code (Score:3, Informative)
The UCC is the baseline or "gap filler" for commercial contracts. It is what you get if you don't specify anything else. So, you can opt-out of the UCC's provisions anytime you want.
I'd assume the Netflix contract opts you out of whatever part of the UCC they don't like. I also assume Netflix sets the contract in the jurisdiction it likes the most.
All Your Base Are Occur By Phone (Score:5, Funny)
Wish someone would force all submissions occur after proofreading...
Hmm. (Score:2, Insightful)
Or iTunes.
You all talk a good game about how much you hate the MPAA and RIAA, but when it comes right down to it, you're the ones lining up around the block for "innovative" new ways to give them some more money, aren't you?
How much money have you given Apple and the RIAA for songs you already bought on CD, tape or LP?
Suckas. Over the air radio and TV is still freeee as in look at all the money I didn't spend today.
Re:Hmm. (Score:2)
Let's see.... Um, about $5.00 US, for the five songs I liked from a tape I bought twelve years ago that got eaten by my tape player. Still feeling all smug and self-righteuos?
Why would I be buying songs from iTMS when I can ripp them to MP3 on my computer?
And yes, broradcast radio and TV are "free" for the consumer to listen to, only they are not. They are paid for by advertising dollars. And those ads ar
Re:Hmm. (Score:3, Insightful)
Your 5 bucks will pay for what, about enough envelopes, letters, and stamps to send out about 10 more extortion threats?
And they can keep their advertising revenue stream, I wont begrudge them that. They may have my eyes and ears, but they don't have my dollars. They don't have my attention, either.
Radio isn't as bad as you think. There are still long commercial free blocks of music. Music is just background noise to me anyways, all the copyright tantrums and handwringi
Re:Hmm. (Score:2)
HBO is commercial free.
Re:Hmm. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hmm. (Score:4, Insightful)
You are watching ads like a motherfucker. I consider that a shackle myself. You are also watching 8 channels (that's as many as I could get w/the fucking rabbit ears I had for a year and a half before I went w/DirecTV) of snow/infomercials. Hell, two of the eight stations were shopping channels and one was a relgious network. Mmmm, five channels of snow.
Fox and UPN were the only two channels to really come in. They are worth it for ME as I like the shows they carry.
Tivo makes TV really fucking enjoyable. I'm up to 15 seaons passes. I don't even think about watching Live TV anymore unless my Tivo'd shit is all my fiance's stuff and then I am more likely to surf the net or do something outside.
I won't even get into OTA Radio and what you put up w/RIAA bullshit there.
Other Services (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Other Services (Score:5, Informative)
With being gone for a while and a two week BB test period, I figured I can't lose. Also, I like the idea of two in-store coupons/month from BB. (It was always the selection that kept me with Netflix, not the pain of a local store.)
Re:Other Services (Score:2)
As a side note, I've been on a bit of a tear again BB. In the last few months, they raised the price of videogame rentals from $4 to $6.50 (more than a 50% hike), added new releases for video games (so now some rentals are only 2 or 3 days instead of the
Re:Other Services (Score:2)
After that I went to netflix and I've seen a few hundred new movies with them and have more than 200 more in my queue.
BB is ultra mainstream so don't look for anything indy or foregin. Also, the whole BB versi
Re:Other Services (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, Greencine already allows users to download movies to their computers. They certainly don't have the rights to most of their movies - mostly to certain indie and porn films. Considering how studios dragged their feet with licensing movies to DVD, I can't believe they'd be willing to license out a new medium to a single company
Re:Other Services (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Netflix vs Blockbuster (Score:2)
Bummer for Netflix... (Score:5, Insightful)
I had Netflix for a few months earlier this year, I loved the service, and when I decided to cancel for financial reasons, it was very easy. I just hopped online, and clicked a link. Then they told me I had 7 days to return my three movies, and we were done.
For this exact reason, I planned on signing up again in the near future. But if they are going down the road of AOL, where you can only cancel by phone, after long waits and pushy sales reps, I may just go try Blockbuster Online instead, and see how it fares.
Re:Bummer for Netflix... (Score:2)
But wait! There IS an easier way! Go into your account, set some bogus financial information, and just wait. When your account requires a payment to stay active they will stop sending you movies if you send them back, and they don't even ask for yo
Re:Bummer for Netflix... (Score:2, Informative)
Distribution Rights? (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh wait...
Nevermind
Re:Distribution Rights? (Score:2)
I'm not sure I'd elevate Netflix to the level of "science" but try thinking this through a little further.
The product that Netflix distributes exists because of copyright laws. If they were forced to make their money by renting whatever crap people would make for free (or create under the terms of whatever nerdly wheel reinvention you propose), what kind of financial shape would they be in?
Cancellation (Score:5, Informative)
As a Netflix subscriber, I have a "Cancel Your Membership" button on my account page...
-Chris
Re:Cancellation (Score:4, Interesting)
As a netflix subscriber who can no longer afford the $23/mo for the service I have just cancelled my netflix account successfully in the My Account page.
That said, it did offer a $3/mo discount on the next 6 months if I chose not to cancel instead. Might be worth it for people who can afford netflix.
Re:Cancellation (Score:2)
Makes sense.
Re:Cancellation (Score:2)
Mod parent +1 RTFNetflixpage (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Mod parent +1 RTFNetflixpage (Score:2)
As the person that submitted the article, note that it is Hank Greenberg from CBS Marketwatch that made the claim. I was just reiterating something that Mr. Greenberg claimed. I haven't subscribed to Netflix in over a year.
Re:Mod parent +1 RTFNetflixpage (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Mod parent +1 RTFNetflixpage (Score:2)
Actually, no. The main point of the article was that Tivo and Netflix isn't as great a combination as was originally thought. I just added Mr. Greenberg's comments as a side note on his opinion on Netflix in general. It is all of /. that focused on the phone call issue, when they ignored the main point of the article.
I apologize for actually summarizing the article for the people that chose not to read it.
The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:3, Interesting)
1) Blockbuster is in the market. Same 3 movies at a time, same postage paid, ~$3 less a month plus coupons for two free movie rentals a month. BB has a larger library plus their instore stock.
2) WalMart has also gotten into the game. Also cheaper than Netflix, I expect them to be the 'low cost' option by cutting their prices below BlockBusters.
3) Netflix recently changed their price (increased it) while making postage free. The result is the join-and-forget customers who are a the best type of customer for them will now be prompted to cancel, leaving them with the habitual heavy renters who make the free postage an expensive decision.
4) The clock is ticking against their entire business model as digital media delivery speeds accelerate.
A positive sign is that they recognize #4 and were making an attempt to bridge the gap with Tivo. Unfortunately, it can probably be done better by TW and other cable providers.
Still, I wish them the best of luck.
Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:5, Informative)
1. Netflix is actually a few bucks cheaper than Blockbuster and Blockbuster certainly doesn't have the same inventory.
2. WalMart won't have the same selection either.
3. Hasn't postage always been free?
4. This is true.
Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:3, Informative)
How's that? Netflix for the 3/month plan is $23, BB is $20. For my previous plan (5/mo.), NF was $35, I think, BB would be $30. But, with the 2 coupons/month at the local store, I'm actually shifting from Netflix's 5/mo. plan to the BB 3/mo. plan.
Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:2)
Its also worth noting to those of us who havent been into a blockbuster recently that there instore selection sucks. bad. Plus they are still prone to the "all out" problem because there stock levels are screwed (500 copies of pirates of the carribean and only 4 of LOEG !!) and so on and so forth. I have
Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:2)
There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread with some people talking about Blockbuster's unlimited in-store plan and some of us talking about their (new) by-mail plan.
I agree the selection isn't great, but I figure twice a month I can find something to rent at the store and can be spur of the moment instead of planning something. Since I have no id
Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:2)
Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:2)
Oh well, my point on #1 still stands that BB's selection is a joke compared to Netflix's
more to it than price (Score:4, Interesting)
But I have noticed netflix is starting to slowdown in response time. My turnaround time with them is generally 1-2 days - sometimes it's just a few hours (get it in the mail, rip it to my hd, stuff it back in the post office box). For a while there I could get three new movies every week quite reliably, but now they've started playing games: I'm sure the movies don't take any longer to come and go, but instead of three days each way it's becoming four and five and even six days from the time I send in my movies until I see the next "arriving soon" notices in my email. At this rate I'm going from "about 12 movies a month" for $23 to maybe 9 and possibly as few as six. Given that I mostly rent foreign and old scifi releases (the 99 cent stuff at most stores) this is not a very good deal.
I hate the long drive and the selection isn't nearly as good at the "local" (40 miles) movie gallery, but I can rent five movies there for five days for only about six bucks - and two disc sets don't count as two discs, but one rental. That's half the netflix rate just for the inconvenience of stopping off at the rental place twice a week.
I hope to see wal-mart fire up the competition soon. Competition is a good thing :)
Re:more to it than price (Score:2)
Here in So Cal, the center is in Orange County- between LA & San Diego. I always get my movies (here in SD) in one day. It would be cost prohibitive to make centers everywhere to guarantee one day delivery.
I imagine Walmart and Blockbuster will mirror the Netflix model, and use centralized processing locations. I doubt you'll see servic
Netflix systematic delays (Score:2)
There is experimental evidence that suggests Netflix progressive [dreamhost.com]
Re:more to it than price (Score:2)
Maybe your postman has figured out what's in those red envelopes, and they're taking a short detour thru your postman's DVD player?
Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:2, Informative)
As a person who has used both Netflix's and BB's unlimited rental stuff, I have to disagree with this. My local BB is pretty big, and boasts about 3,000 different titles. Whereas Netflix has something along the lines of 25,000 diff titles.. couple that with the fact that when you rent with BB, you can only use that one BB store, whereas if your current Netflix doesn't have that glamourous BOllywood flick you desire to see so much (that BB doesn't even k
Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:2)
Read the fine print (Score:3, Informative)
And as for Netflix, you can still cancel and restart your membership online.
Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:2)
Wal-Mart sells "made for Wal-Mart" versions of movies and video games that cut out the "unnecessary" sex and violence (bastards)... essentially so nothing has more than an 14+ rating.
Are the movies they have for rent the "un-cut" versions, or the Wal-Mart "santized" versions?
Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:4, Informative)
Netflix has a closer warehouse to me, and more warehouses overall - this usually resulted in my getting a new movie every 3 days vs 5 for BB and 6 for Walmart. Advantage: Netflix
When Netflix received a DVD (and sent me an email), they would send me a new one on the same day, every time. When Blockbuster and Walmart received a DVD (and sent me an email), they often would take another full day before sending out the next one. Walmart was the worse of the three. Advantege: Netflix
The Netflix website is more user friendly imho. I don't have to login everytime ("save my act info" didn't work correctly on BB or Walmart with Firebird at least). In Netflix when I renumber a couple of movies at the end of my queue to 1 and 2, they show up as 1 and 2. In BB, they would show up as 1 and 3 (because the "new" 1 displaced the "old" 1 to 2, and the new "2" was relative to the the old "2" I guess). Netflix search functions where better as well. Advantge: Netflix.
Netflix has a much broader library than either of the others. Lots of movies only found in Netflix. Advantage: Netflix
Netflix has a much deeper library than either of the others. Lots of movies on my BB and Walmart list showed up as "long wait" etc. The same movies on Netflix where "available". Advantage: Netflix.
Summary: I cancelled BB and WalMart and stuck with Netflix. The other two are also-rans at best.
Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:2)
This can change. It did with me.
Every once in a while I'll send all my flicks back at the exact same time. If Netflix did ship out new movies the same day they received them (rare in and of itself), they
Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:2)
Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:2)
Re:The end of Netflix is upon us (Score:2)
Hollywood Video is also getting into the market. They now have a VIP service starting at $9.99 per month for the first three months, then going up to $14.99 per month. Three (3) movies out at once, but for only five days (i.e. there are still late fees). Brand new releases don't qualify. I think movies have to be available for rental for about a month before they q
hold the profits (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:hold the profits (Score:2)
The corporation collects revenue for its products/services, then requires extra labor for its use - by the support staff, and by the consumer. When the corporation doesn't spend enough on the call center, it's keeping more profit, saving labor of its workers. The extra time spent by the consumer on hold is zero-productivity labor. Slightly more complicated than opportunity cost, b
I was kind of wondering... (Score:5, Interesting)
(Though I still think it's a cool idea and properly setup could work around those concerns...)
Legitimate p2p TV (Score:2)
Re:Legitimate p2p TV (Score:2)
Re:I was kind of wondering... (Score:3, Insightful)
"P2P" could be very lucrative for the publishing houses if they get thei
Netflix cancellations by phone (Score:5, Informative)
I'll cancel my NetFlix... (Score:5, Funny)
When they pry the remote out of my cold, dead hands.
Re:I'll cancel my NetFlix... (Score:2)
Tivo rocks. Netflix rocks. They rock because they provided a much needed service that allows people to manage their life without worrying about entertainment. Kudos to them.
NOTE: I have no problem paying for stuff, its when I get gouged and/or told how to manage/use my product that I get annoyed.
Re:I'll cancel my NetFlix... (Score:2)
Like when my son and I watch a Tivoed [tivo.com] episode of Oobi [noggin.com] or Maisy [noggin.com], or take in Finding Nemo [netflix.com] or Potty Time With Bear [netflix.com] together... or those evenings after the boy goes to bed, when my wife and I stay up and watch Surreal Life [vh1.com] and some good movies [netflix.com] ( actually, right now we're working through The Sopranos [netflix.com] ).
In all seriousness ( although, maybe sadly, we do all of the above, and my son is an expert on the Noggin [noggin.com] and Sesame Street [sesameworkshop.org] websites ), my post was
Netflix is getting slow... (Score:4, Interesting)
If you ever get an email asking how long it took for you to get a specific movie, *never* under any circumstances tell them you received it early. They will stall shipment of future movies to make sure you're not getting more than they think you should get per month. They've been getting worse and worse about this.
Re:Netflix is getting slow... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Netflix is getting slow... (Score:2)
I answered all the emails and then notified them when service was getting slow that I was going to cancel, because they were using the information I provided to screw me, from 1 movie every 3-4 days to 1 movie every week. Rather than go back to shipping movies to me the way they used to and keeping me as a customer they gave me some BS email needless to say they have lost another customer.
Re:Netflix is getting slow... (Score:4, Insightful)
<p>
I have learned this lesson the hard way when I answered couple of 'survey' emails. I thought, 'Gee they really care about when I get the movie'. When ever I said I received them on the right date, then my movies will take 1 day extra to arrive.
<p>
I waited till the next survey and answered 'came a day late'. Movies have been prompt ever since. And I never bothered with the survey again.
What is slow to you? (Score:2)
I'm assuming its because they have distribution centers strategically located and that the postal service is well aware of the mail
Hold time? (Score:4, Interesting)
If they're billing my credit card, and I want to cancel, and they make me jump through unreasonable hoops, I just won't. My credit card company will happily take my call and my instructions that any charges from Netflix are fraudulent because I have notified them in writing or using any means I choose that I am no longer a subscriber to their service. Then if Netflix wants to make a big deal about it, I'll bet they'll take the call from my credit card company.
Cancel by phone? (Score:2, Informative)
You are in charge of your money (Score:4, Interesting)
Tell the first person you speak to that you are cancelling your service immediately, and that you have informed your credit card company to refuse all future charges. It's up to them whether they want to update their systems with the cancellation now, or spend 3 months trying to contact you in hopes that it was some kind of mistake, while you continue to use the service.
Re:You are in charge of your money (Score:2)
Not that I would ever do such a thing
Makes me wonder if the article submiter owns blockbust or cable company stock
Where did the phone rule come from (Score:5, Insightful)
Absolutely. You can easily cancel your membership anytime, online, 24 hours a day. There are no cancellation fees. To avoid being charged after your trial, simply cancel your account before the trial ends. No clue what that guy is talking about...
Actually, we'll know they are really failing. . . (Score:4, Interesting)
. .
No, seriously.
Re:Actually, we'll know they are really failing. . (Score:2)
Problem with Tivo and Netflix (Score:5, Insightful)
2) Only stereo audio output
I rent movies because I can view them using the DVI output of my DVD player and the optical audio output to the 5.1 reciever. The Tivo is not quality audio or video capable, so I'd never use this service in the first place.
why rent when you can buy (Score:2, Informative)
Re:why rent when you can buy (Score:3, Informative)
Buy DVDFab for $40.
Get some cheap blank DVDs from Newegg, currently about 42 cents a disc.
About half of the movies can be copied without compression onto one disc. But even assuming you want all the bonus materials and use 2 discs for each movie. Your grand total comes to $1.86 per movie.
So to answer your questio
but they look crappy (Score:2)
Re:why rent when you can buy (Score:2)
Netflix novelty runs out quick (Score:3)
At first I thought great service.
But after about a couple months you realize there arent that many movies you NEED to see. And if my local video store has the latest DVD's in stock, its 10 minutes away, and only costs me $2.00 a night thats actually a better deal. So instead of spending my 21.xx a month I am back to 4.00 a month.
I suppose its good for those people that rent everything and rip and burn, similar to the people that used to tape every VHS rental they rented and never watched again as they amassed the wall of VHS tapes that no one could borrow because they were going to happen to watch the exact movie you wanted to borrow that night.
Re:Netflix novelty runs out quick (Score:3, Insightful)
Then I realized the great thing about NetFlix. TV. I am currently watching ALL of Stargate SG-1 (episode 19, on disc 5 of season 3 is playing right now, "Crystal Skull"). I've already watched ALL of Neon Genesis Evangelion, Bubblegum Crisis 2040, and various other random things. I got to see The Singing Detective (the miniseries from England
Reality check (Score:4, Informative)
2. You can still cancel online. Any suggestions that you can't are nonsense.
3. Negotiating rights will be part of any electronic distribution venture, regardless of what companies are involved. Everybody in the business knows this. Nobody would be proceeding with any ventures of this sort if they didn't have a plan for it.
4. Your answer to a delivery survey does not affect your account in any way. Others have speculated that the rate at which you turn discs around has an effect, but see #1 above. They ask about delivery time so they can figure out when and where they need to open a new shipping hub.
Re:Movielink.com (Score:3, Informative)
Re:But its movie rentals (Score:2)
Renting a copy of a movie is merely a matter of trading posession of a copy (copies are tangible objects) for a span of time. No new copies are produced.
Giving out copies over the net is a matter of reproducing the movie onto the client computer's memory, which is therefore a new copy. The later disposition of the earlier copy isn't relevant.
So rental as we know it is a matter of distribution. Rental as you propose would be a matter of not only distribution, but also of
Re:How is it different? (Score:2)
A. The large cable companies have lobbying groups and are tightly tied into the content companies. In some cases they are even the same company.
Re:Why on Tivo? (Score:2)
A better question is why someone would use the mail system when downloads are av