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Randall Davis: IBM Has No SCO Code 405

Mick Ohrberg writes "As reported by Groklaw, Randall Davis, renowned professor of Computer Science at MIT has after an extensive search found no evidence of SCO's claims that IBM has incorporated parts of the Unix System V code. Davis says "Accordingly, the IBM Code cannot be said, in my opinion, to be a modification or a derivative work based on the Unix System V Code." Surprised, anyone?"
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Randall Davis: IBM Has No SCO Code

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  • by Godeke ( 32895 ) * on Friday September 17, 2004 @03:31PM (#10279516)
    One thing was pointed out on Groklaw that I think was relevant. Although I think SCO has no case, I'm sure they will jump on the fact that the expert didn't provide an example of a true derivative work run through the same procedure.

    It surely wouldn't have been hard to take some, say, early and "in the clear" code that has been reused and modified over time to show both that it can be identified and to show how code that has evolved can still leave the fingerprint of the original code. Without that counter example the failure to find matches would seem underwhelming. (The closest the testimony came to this was showing a positive result that was generated and showing how it was a commonly repeated pattern in all software written in C, not something specific to these two programs).

    Perhaps elsewhere in IBMs testimony there was reference to this same procedure being successfully?
  • question (Score:5, Interesting)

    by cyfer2000 ( 548592 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @03:33PM (#10279545) Journal
    After that, who will have the copyright of Unix? Open Group? or IBM? or Novel?
  • Scope (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 17, 2004 @03:38PM (#10279601)
    Only the code SCO CURRENTLY says is infringing was tested. According to the document on Groklaw, this was not a line by line comparison.. so if SCO sneaks new code into discovery at some later point, this'll have to be done all over again.

    Why? 6 million lines of code compared against 6 million (or more) will take a exponentially more time than 27000 vs 6 million.

  • Re:Finally... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by y2imm ( 700704 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @03:40PM (#10279630)
    They're not quite dead yet. But keep a good thought!

    The courts have their thorough processes to run through. SCO will get umpteen chances to submit memorandums, emergency memorandums, memorandums in opposition to motions, memorandums in support of motions, motions to support memorandums in support of motions for summary judgement, no wait, theres more...

    It's making me ill to watch how easily the process is to abuse. But thank God, unless a MS steps in and ponies up the cash, it will eventually be over.
  • Re:Finally... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dasmegabyte ( 267018 ) <das@OHNOWHATSTHISdasmegabyte.org> on Friday September 17, 2004 @03:43PM (#10279658) Homepage Journal
    Wow. That was a quick read, and you know what? Assuming that this guy's completely on the level (and considering his pro-IP stance, I'm willing to do that), SCO really has fuck-all. Up until now, I was ready to give them a chance, mostly due to their sabre rattling about protecting the little guy from the cloning behavior inherent in OSS. But Davis' observations, if substantiated, prove exactly what the OSS community was talking about: the code similarities are largely trivial, and SCO's "code theft" claims are bunkum.

    Whether they still have any patents or copyrights on the functionality of UNIX remains to be seen, and such a case wouldn't necessarily NEED code theft to go forward. Any idiot can see that Linux is a UNIX clone -- the question at that point would be the legality of the cloning process and the layers of licensing that surround it.
  • Re:Finally... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Southpaw018 ( 793465 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @03:58PM (#10279803) Journal
    Exactly. This is some of the most convincing anti-SCO evidence I've seen. This man has been an expert witness in court in the past and is indisputably an expert in this kind of analysis. Look at the (badly scanned...bleh!) table in the pdf. Line after line after line of code identified by SCO as being stolen, and Davis found absolutely nothing.

    That's a final word as far as I'm concerned, and I'd venture so far as to say if IBM wants to make it so it's the final word as far as the law is concerned.
  • His resume! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by chill ( 34294 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @04:06PM (#10279898) Journal
    I love this part:

    "I have also been retained by the Department of Justice in its investigation of the INSLAW matter. In 1992 (and later in 1995) my task in that engagement was to investigate alleged copyright theft and subsequent cover-up by the Federal Bureau of Investigations, the National Security Agency, the Drug Enforcement Agency, the United States Customs Service, and the Defense Intelligence Agency."

    Holy rat shit Batman!

  • by ESR ( 3702 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @04:09PM (#10279922) Homepage
    Yes, as a matter of fact, it *did* feel good to
    see my work used in this comparison. Extremely good.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @04:10PM (#10279929)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Re:question (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AvitarX ( 172628 ) <me@brandywinehund r e d .org> on Friday September 17, 2004 @04:12PM (#10279946) Journal
    That is why the GPL is called Viral.

    If Novell did that they would be violating the GPL and infringing on the copyrighted work of Open Sorce programmers.

    SCO tried almost the exact same thing (They distribute Linux source (including "stolen" code) under the GPL and then insist that it is illegel to distribute under the GPL and that the GPL is invalid and maybe even un American.
  • by Dark Coder ( 66759 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @04:14PM (#10279966)
    Thank you... After being batted down by clueless moderators...I'm with Hope.

    I'm more interested in the Abstraction and Comparision aspect. Forget the Filtration aspect as they seem only to pertain to non-Copyright (mostly patentable objects).

    Now, for Comparision... What are the wiggle room concepts introduced? I know of the most commonly used one such as "Upper-lowercase, multiple whitespaces"

    And for the Abstraction, ones I know of are: inverse logic (a gt b) vs. (b lt a) and inverted or flipped loops.

    I know in for Abstraction, one can evade the copyright in this manner. But for Comparision....?

  • by Anita Coney ( 648748 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @04:19PM (#10280005) Homepage
    Way back in April McBride admitted there were no "line-by-line, exact copies" of code taken from Unix and placed in Linux. He stated that it was a merely a "nonliteral" copy.

    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1561611,00. as p

  • by imp ( 7585 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @04:20PM (#10280014) Homepage

    One would hope, as a matter of fact, the SCOexpert would be required to show where he found matches.

    As a matter of fact SCO did show the evidence. This was enumerated in Sandeep Gupta's deposition. The pointed to pdf file has a table of all the files aledged to be copied from Unix sources, and this deposition specifically states he looked at those also (since his automatic detection program failed to find it) and the evidence of copying failed to apply the normal legal standards (also outlined in the deposition). This is very interesting reading indeed.
  • Re:question (Score:3, Interesting)

    by imp ( 7585 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @04:30PM (#10280088) Homepage

    the Unix copyrights were never actually transfered from Novell to SCO.

    It looks like they weren't transferred. It is an open question if Novell would be required to make such a transfer (although most people think it unlikely).


    I wonder if they've thought about integrating their Unix copyrights into their Linux distribution.


    Novell could do that. They own they copyright. However, they would have to release the code under the GPL or whatever license is compatible with the GPL and on the files they release. This is fundamentally different than what SCO is doing. Novell would effectively be a first party inserting code into linux, so it is above board.

    What SCO is alledging is that their code was taken, without their permission, by IBM (and others) and inserted into Linux. Their claims are about aledged theft of their property since they weren't the ones doing the insertion (they claim, others dispute this, but let's assumet they are right for the sake of argument). That's what makes it fundamentlaly different than Novell doing something: SCO is aldeging it was harmed by third parties doing something bad. If Novell inserted code, as suggested, as suggested, it would be in a much more difficult position given the license that they'd be required to submit it under for inclusion in the kernel (check #1) as well as being in the untenable position of saying "Yes, we gave it away, but others have no rights to use it." Sure, SCO is in that position too (due to their distribution of Linux), and you see how much that's helped them.
  • What did Didio see? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 17, 2004 @04:33PM (#10280127)
    If Davis sees no common code, then what did Laura Didio see?

    http://www.groklaw.net/quotes/showperson.phtml?pid =9 [groklaw.net]

    "My impression is that [SCO's claim] is credible," says Laura DiDio, a Yankee Group analyst who was shown the evidence by SCO Group earlier this week. "It appears to be the same" code.-- Laura DiDio, 2003-06-05
  • by eckman ( 55874 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @06:27PM (#10280976)

    At $550 per hour, I would've used something like a 386 processor with 8MB of RAM.

    There's a reason some people get paid that much; some people know how to do their jobs well and efficiently.

    Why pay someone for 100 hours at $55/hour and wait 3 weeks when you can pay this guy $550/hour and have your results the next day?

  • by killjoe ( 766577 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @06:28PM (#10280986)
    "Look, Laura DiDio is a tech analyst. She looks for trends in the market. She is neither a programmer nor a copyright expert. "

    SO why is she publishing that she was copied code? If she does not have the qualifications to make such a decision then she certainly then she certainly should not be advising investors based on such analysis.

    "Davis saw no -infringing- code. That's not the same thing as seeing no common code. Copying a ten-line function almost verbatim is likely a copyright violation. Ending up with a handful of lines that look a lot alike, by contrast, is often just an unavoidable side-effect of writing two pieces of code that do the same thing."

    It's apparent now that you did not read the deposition. Go read it. He explains exactly how he searched and what he found. He found 15 instances of "same" code. It was crap like

    #endif
    return;
    }

    He says (rightly so) that this is like reading two novels and finding that they both contain the phrase "he gave it".

    This is significant. He did not have to do any kind of "filtering" to weed out same code that does not infringe. He FOUND THAT THERE WAS NO DUPLICATION OF CODE AT ALL.
  • by jgoemat ( 565882 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @06:39PM (#10281047)
    He talks about this in his declaration [groklaw.net] under section 12, Methodology. Abstraction and Filtration are two things that would rule out code. They are meant to filter out parts of the code that are not protectable under copyright (public domain code, scenes a faire, etc.). If the comparison provided matches that were indeed similar, abstration and filtration could be used to show that although they were the same, they were not protectable. Everything must pass the comparison test though, so by doing this he was casting a wide net to find any similar code.
    24. For purposes of my review, I did not first apply the "abstraction" and filtration" analyses to the Unix System V Code. Instead, to be conservative, I assumed that all of the Unix System V code was in fact protectable (although I do not believe all of such code in fact to be protectable) and proceeded to compare all of the Unix System V Code with all of the IBM Code to see if there were any true matches of copied code in the first place. To the extent necessary, I then applied the "filtration" analysis to the reportedly matching code to determine if such code was in fact protectable.
  • Re:Justice upgrade (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @07:16PM (#10281287) Homepage Journal
    American justice was formulated by rationalists at the beginning of the Enlightenment, modeled on science (and including one of the great scientists, Ben Franklin, as a founder). Its dependence on evidence, actions and even its structure which finds defendants only "guilty" or "not guilty", but not "innocent", is an artifact of its scientific approach, which cannot prove a negative proposition, merely fail to prove a positive one. But science was young, and the culture of American lawyers was developed by people who explicitly avoided the culture of science, math and engineering. As it has diverged into mere persuasion, now wallowing in the depths of theories of "intent", it has become a joke.

    Unfortunately, all the talk of "tort reform", channeling distrust of "trial lawyers" will go in the other direction from clearly engineered justice procedures. It will unimpeachably establish corporate primacy in rights in law, severely curtail humans' rights to sue, and generate an edifice for injustice on the ruins of the old, flawed system. The barbarians are at the gate, and all that stands between them and us is an association of lawyers. We're doomed.
  • by borgheron ( 172546 ) on Friday September 17, 2004 @07:42PM (#10281475) Homepage Journal
    We see that now that you are engaged in an ass kicking contents with an entity that has 20 legs and no ass, you're loosing!

    Not to mention the fact that you have no case!! Never had one, never will have one!! Do you sleep well at night, Darl? Do your employees welcome you to the office when you show up for work? Or do they jeer at the man whose cost them any future they could ever have had in the IT industry in the hope that they might "get rich quick" by trying to bust up Linux?

    Caldera (let's call it what it is...) was one of the Linux leaders and you've turned this once Linux company into a litigation machine just like you're famous for. Well this time, the joke's on you pal. You've come up against two things you didn't count on. One, that a mega corporation like IBM might actually fight you instead of just paying you off and two, the tenacity of the Linux community and our unique ability to find the facts about a given situation. *This* is how it works here, we police each other with the very same eye we've used to scrutinize this farce of yours.

    We have come out on top, and we will always come out on top. We've stared you in your ugly face and we've not flinched.

    Screw you, Darl McBride.

    Sincerely, Gregory Casamento.

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