TiVo to Sell Your Fast-Forward Button 777
Thomas Hawk writes "PVRblog is reporting today that TiVo will begin to place banner advertisements on your screen when you are fast forwarding. As one of the whole points for people getting a TiVo is to remove obtrusive advertising, it seems like a really bad move to force advertising on people at the exact moment that they are using your technology to avoid advertising. This act points to the desperation of TiVo and their management team and although it might help them in the short run it will most certainly backfire in the long run." This is ironic for a company whose slogan used to be "TV Your Way," but not surprising, since its CEO says he wants to move to a largely advertiser-supported revenue stream. I've bought three TiVos in the past four years, but my next PVR will run MythTV -- unless HR2391 passes and makes me a criminal for skipping commercials.
I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Get people hooked... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Now if they wanted to provide a "free" version of the TIVO subscription that was advertiser supported, then I could see this working.
Best way to avoid commercials (Score:2, Insightful)
Make sure you don't cause a backlash (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't really want to see Tivo go down the tubes but I can imagine that the development community would pick up the charred remnants and actually produce a better product.
Avoid ads or save time? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd think as long as the banners don't make the ffwd through commercial slower (by assuring they're on the screen for some specific time) people won't mind.
Better for the marketing folks to pay tivos electric bills then us.
Finally, something the UK will be glad not to get (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Tivo - why did you bother? (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know why anyone bothered with Tivo in the first place - the promise was of "TV Your Way", but TV my way has always been best served by Bit Torrent. It's quasi-legal to be sure, but I can get a 400 meg HDTV broadcast of one of the very few shows I do watch over TV, the commercials are nicely stripped (so I don't even have to fast forward them) and the service is fast and reliable, especially on third generation high-speed internet technology.
If you're getting a TIVO, I'm assuming the moral issue of skipping the stations precious advertisements don't matter to you that much anyway, right?
Re:Questions (Score:5, Insightful)
In an age when we have so many thousands (millions?) of lawyers in the nation, I do not think you can separate intent or purpose from what is written and how it is interpreted. We can't afford to be writing laws that are vague, and we have the resources to ensure it does not happen, should we choose to use them.
"Sure, your cable/satellite bill can, but only to a point. There are billions of dollars that come from advertising. Is there not that side to this story as well?"
I'd pay more per channel for cable if it had no advertising, no problem. Note I say per channel -- as in a la carte. Since I watch 2 or 3 channels via my TiVo I would probably end up paying less overall, but the channels whose services I use would be getting more.
"How and when is it acceptable for products to be advertised?"
It's acceptable exactly up to the point that the consumers allow it to be. If the consumers revolt, spend extra money on a product and service that allows them to skip them, it's no longer acceptable to them.
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Actually, I think this is an EXCELLENT idea. (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody's asking to get anything for free. TiVo already charges for the unit and you have to pay a monthly charge to just use the damn thing. If they want to add banner ads and give me the service free, that's great, but it's not what they're doing.
Skip it all (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Questions (Score:5, Insightful)
Boy, you must really hate Firefox's Adblock and Flashblock features.
As much as I'd like to preserve the old business model of being forced to look at ads for minutes at a time, it's time to rethink this strategy now that we have 21st century technology... simply giving them billions of dollars in revenue because the're accustomed to getting billions of dollars of revenue doesn't cut it anymore.
Re:Questions (Score:5, Insightful)
The point is that if I want to attach a device to my television that translates every third word into Algonquin once the signal comes into my device it's none of their business. If I write a module for MythTV that allows me to change all the commercials in my LiveTV programming into mpegs of dancing midgets throwing pickles at a naked woman it's none of their business.
Their revenue stream and rights to artistic integrity end when they reach the consumer. At that point it's my signal in my device and as long as I don't rebroadcast it they need to leave me the hell alone.
Press Release! (Score:2, Insightful)
-phixxr
Re:Questions (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Questions (Score:5, Insightful)
The difference is that tv, especially broadcast television, is a much more limited resource than a newspaper. Anyone can start up a newspaper and start distributing it, it is not regulated in the least. Which is a very good thing, but also appropriate for the medium which allows for naturally unlimited competition. If you don't like the content or presentation of one newspaper, another could take its place without much trouble.
Television, especially broadcast television is considered a public resource. So, we as individuals have every right to demand that the use of the airwaves meets our best interests and not solely those of the licensees. We can argue about the rightness of that approach, but until broadcasters stop using public airwaves and the public rights of way (cable) then I demand that I be able to view the content anyway I damn well choose.
Improve your viewing pleasure too (Score:3, Insightful)
Being able to skip the commercials is to me about not having my viewing pleasure interrupted by commercials for products I'm not going to buy. I don't need advertising to make an informed choice about buying a product.
Re:Avoid ads or save time? (Score:4, Insightful)
The submitter's hysterical comments show an obvious distaste for this decision by TiVo, but his statement, "although it might help them in the short run it will most certainly backfire in the long run," displays a profound sense of arrogance; he knew about this for about 10 minutes before drawing a conclusion based on nothing more than gut, while TiVo Inc., has clearly thought about these issues and decided they were a net benenfit. I would like to know how the submitter became so "certain."
This has nothing to do with your rights or online, or Your Rights Online, it's a business decision no worse than Apple papering NYC with iPod ads. Get over yourself.
[good thing I have karma to burn]
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
You people need to get a life. The Networks generate their revenue off of sponsorship (read: commercials). Commercials are how the networks pay for all these shows you're watching! What don't you understand?
You pay your cable bill to cover the delievery of those channels. Yes, some of the cable networks (ESPN, for one) charge cable companies to carry them. But that's a supply and demand issue. People want ESPN. They are willing to pay for it. How many cable companies have to pay for Food Network, or Spike TV? Not many, I'd say. If those channels weren't available, most people wouldn't have a problem with it.
So, until you're ready to pony up the dough and pay for every channel like you pay for HBO, Showtime, and Pay-per-view, quit your bitching, and watch some freakin commercials.
People don't make TV shows (for the most part) out of the goodness of their heart. They do it for profit.
Good for TiVo. (Score:5, Insightful)
Ideally (this is how I think it should work, I don't know exactly how it works...):
Think of how many commercials are on the air. If advertisers are concerned about commercial skipping, they pay TiVo for the software needed to encode a billboard into their ad, similar to the "press thumbs up to record" or "press thumbs up for more info" that you see often on NBC.
When TiVo is fast forwarding through the ad and sees the bill board encoded in the video stream, it displays the bill board.
So:
- TV stations are happy because advertisers want to buy longer ad slots in order to increase the time their bill board is on the screen during a TiVo fast forward.
- Advertisers are happy because they have a captive audience for their ads. (you actually have to attentively watch the screen or you'll fast forward into your show)
- TiVo is happy because they have another revenue source.
- TiVo owners are still happy because they are still getting through commercials at the same rate as they did before TiVo added this feature.
Who exactly is loosing?
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Questions (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, economist Joseph Schumpeter [econlib.org] came up with the theory of "creative destruction". In short, every now and then, a new innovation destroys the old economic model (think TiVo or, in the retail field, think Wal-Mart). The capitalist society comes up with a new way to respond to that innovation. In the case of TiVo, it appears that they will now have pop-up ads. In the case of Wal-Mart, you now see Sears and KMart merging. However, TiVo started the revolution, and now they are trying to take a step backwards. Unfortunately for them, there is a good chance the revolution is about to pass TiVo right by.
What does that do for the Advertisers? Well, they better figure something out, otherwise, their economic model completely falls apart. In a capitalist society (which the US claims to be), it is up to the advertisers to figure their way out of this mess. If the advertisers don't figure it out, you'll see less money flowing to the TV networks and, a potential reduction in TV show budgets. Now, wouldn't THAT be a disaster! Those overpaid actors and network executives would start losing money. Oh well. If Hollywood isn't providing me with dumb entertainment, my entertainment dollar will go elsewhere.
Creative Destruction. It's time that advertisers re-read their college economics textbooks. In short, I don't care about the advertisers, nor do I care about how the networks make money. In our economy, their problems are not my problems.
Tuner card, cable without cable box (Score:3, Insightful)
www.mythtv.org is slashdotted, if that's what it does.
Cheese and Crackers!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
It is also an article showing that TiVo can provide advertisements that have better response rates than interstitial advertising provides.
But this slashdot posting is editorializing from beginning to end. I can understand that *you* don't wnat to see any advertising ever... Good for you. (but look at the banners at the top and right of the the slashdot page you nit.) But you know nothing about why I or many people have TiVo! And for the most part all this editorializing is WRONG. The interstital is being replaced by the more attractive click-ins. The ads are better produced, more entertaining, more informative. And they are not being replaced by more intrusive advertising. It is being replaced by *less* intrusive and more interactive advertising. And you can still opt out of the data collection! Get a friggin grip.
anyone reminded of...? (Score:3, Insightful)
tivo can do this right by offering service credit to those willing to watch the ads while fast-forwarding. if they really mean "tv your way" then that's the right way. (the wrong way, like the caller-id crap, is to charge the customers to not watch ads during fast-forward.) if you respect the customers, tivo, then give them the choice.
Re:Questions (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I just paid for my latest new type magazine (Score:3, Insightful)
I know I'd be hopping mad.
Re:Questions (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a problem with it anyway. It's a law that says I can do a thing but I cannot have a machine that does that thing for me. WTF? It's as though they passed a law that says you cannot use an electric can opener because forcing people to open cans manually will keep the market for food contained in glass bottles competitive with cans.
And make no mistake, the intent is to keep people watching commercials, whatever the mechanics of the process. If the law as written doesn't have that end result, it will be reinterpreted or a new law will be written to further restrict our options.
How and when is it acceptable for products to be advertised?
How about letting the market decide that? If the payback from advertising drops to the point where it can no longer support creation and delivery of programming, what then? Will the demand for programming go away? I sincerely doubt it. Other revenue models will emerge, including direct payment (subscription and pay-per-view). What's wrong with that?
Re:Questions (Score:3, Insightful)
With the rise of SSRIs, people won't get enough. They'll just go on with life and 'not worry' about their rights being taken away.
These are scary times.
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
The purpose of television shows... (Score:2, Insightful)
The advent of TiVo undermined this quite a bit, of course, which is why there's a bit of backlash now. Again, I think more people are in it to save time (although there is that "skip annoying commercials" aspect to it...), but circumventing advertisements that pay for the shows you enjoy is a bit of a grey area.
Also interesting is that TFA doesn't make it clear whether the banner ads will be equivalent to the commercial being skipped over, which would raise some issues if advertisers making payments to TiVo overruled those who had paid for a certain time slot. Even if the ads=the commercials, there is some question of who will end up profiting from the exposure-Should Tivo share its money with NBC because one of its banner ads was triggered by a commercial broadcast during one of NBC's programs?
Thank Christ I'm not in advertising!
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:2, Insightful)
Sure, fine -- except I bought a "lifetime" subscription.
I started out paying month to month, but once I realized what a major convenience TiVo was (letting me save time by skipping commercials and making it easier for me to record and watch what I wanted in the little time I do have), I paid out a lifetime subscription.
Now, I don't think I'll have a problem with banners poping up as I forward through commercials (or 30-sec skip?) as long as it doesn't interfere with what I'm trying to watch. I don't mind the spots that it downloads now (I either ignore them or, like the Corvette & GMC ads, watch them).
If it does interfere, I don't really have any recourse. I've bought (and modded) the machine and pre-paid for the service. I've invested and taken the risk that TiVo service is going to be around. If they go under, well that's part of the risk I took. If they change their service where it becomes irritating to have to see popup ads, I guess that's also part of the risk. If it becomes unusable because of intrusive ads*, that's something I never anticipated.
*I don't think it will:
I sure hope that's the case.
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. Somebody needs to whack these morons with a cluestick. If I've gone to the trouble to avoid watching advertisments, you ramming them down my throat anyway is going to endear me to your company and make me want to buy your products...how exactly? Personally I will actually go out of my way to avoid purchasing stuff because the advertisments have pissed me off.
Why don't you (Score:1, Insightful)
Do you really think advertising will go away? (Score:3, Insightful)
Advertising is here for good. It's a mainstay of our entire socio-economic model.
Of course, as television changes, so will the way advertising works.
For all of you that are 'shocked, shocked' that Tivo intends to get into the ad business, wake up and smell the coffee. Business is about money and ads are where the money lives.
Re:Questions (Score:1, Insightful)
Nice to think, but it isn't true. In fact, there are volumes of evidence that shows "people" never get immune to advertising. I know, you're smart. You make all purchasing decisions based on facts filtered through your giant brain. Marketing has no effect on you, especially when you are in one of these wonderful, ad-free countries. But advertisers spend money because it's effective. Marketing, brand management, and advertising are not voodoo.
Actually, I think this is a REALLY CRAPPY idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, I use TiVo to skip over commercials. I also use FF for shows I can watch without sound and faster than real time. Will the service know if I'm FF over a commercial or for some other purpose?
For example I can watch a 3-hour football match in about half the time. I don't need the analyst's inane chatter, and I can always go back to regular speed to catch a big play.
In addition, this 'feature' contradicts TiVo's own marketing. There's no sound while a show is in FF, but one of TiVo's tips [tivo.com] is to turn on the closed captions and read the dialogue while watching the show faster.
If the banner ad is anywhere on the screen where I can see it, then it is intrusive.
"Listen, TiVo needs to make money. They're a company selling a product. Everyone seems to forget that and whine when they don't give you everything for free. I applaud them for coming up with a way to sell ad space without interfering with normal use of the product."
That's just wrong. TiVo gives NOTHING for free. I've already paid for the hardware and paid for the service, and I didn't whine about it. This is TiVo unilaterally changing the terms of the deal after they have my money. Would you applaud nVidia if they decided to display banner ads on every computer with their graphics cards? Listen, nVidia needs to make money, right?
"What would you rather have, no fast-forward, forcing you to watch commercials, or a fast-forward with a small screen overlay that you only have to look at for as long as you are fast-forwarding?"
I'd rather have the service I paid for. But you're missing the real question, would you rather have FF with a small screen overlay, or a boat anchor that's useless if TiVo goes out of business and no other company picks up the service?
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Honestly, I'm all for it if it means they stay afloat longer.
mythTV rocks (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's put this another way... (Score:4, Insightful)
We're used to hearing about how greedy companies are. And there are plenty of them, with Microsoft being their poster-boy. But when you're a company with real competition, then you're walking a fine line between making enough income and selling at a competitive price. It's hard to balance. Apple is one of the few companies that seems to be able to charge a premium with impunity.
I'm not saying I know for SURE that TiVo is struggling financially, but given the statistics, they probably are. Making that assumption, they are faced with a choice between increasing what they charge customers or finding some OTHER way of increasing revenue. Selling banner ad space is just such an alternative.
Frankly, I suspect that most people would prefer to see an unintrusive banner appear when fast-forwarding than to have to pay a higher monthly fee.
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Where's your IANATO (I am not a TiVo owner)?
Any legal thread quickly over flows with 'IANAL', any discussion of IP brings out the folks who don't know copyright form trademark, so why should this thread be any different?
Yes, I use TiVo to skip over commercials. I also use FF for shows I can watch without sound and faster than real time. Will the service know if I'm FF over a commercial or for some other purpose?
For example I can watch a 3-hour football match in about half the time. I don't need the analyst's inane chatter, and I can always go back to regular speed to catch a big play.
In addition, this 'feature' contradicts TiVo's own marketing. There's no sound while a show is in FF, but one of TiVo's tips [tivo.com] is to turn on the closed captions and read the dialogue while watching the show faster.
How is TiVo "free tv"? TiVo gives NOTHING for free. I've already paid for the hardware and paid for the service, and I didn't whine about it. This is TiVo unilaterally changing the terms of the deal after they have my money. Would you applaud nVidia if they decided to display banner ads on every computer with their graphics cards? Listen, nVidia needs to make money, right?
Where does TiVo's consumers benefit? (Score:3, Insightful)
Granted, if TiVo needs the ad revenue to stay solvent, I guess it's necessary (the TiVo is doorstop without the service, well sorta [tivocanda.com] =))
But they might be shrinking their market to tap these new ad based revenue streams, which will make the ad placements be worth less...
Apparently it won't be cable companies clumsy DVR's, or even us diy PVR'ers [byopvr.com] (shameless plug), or dillution of "brand/identity" that kills TiVo... it will be TiVo killing TiVo with practices and commitments that aren't in their CONSUMERS best interest.
Why would someone who buys a special box and pays a monthly (or lifetime) service fee to skip commercials put up with replacement commercials during the commercial skipping process?!?! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!
Furthermore what advertiser in their right mind would want to reach people that ADD and disposition makes them actively adverse to ads? And if tivo's DVR/PVR share decreases what will those banner ads be worth to the advertisers then?
Will DirecTivo's be effected by this change? (and will this hasten DirecTV's dance away from TiVo specific DVRs?)
*Shrug*
Re:people, get a clue (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem here is that this gamble hasn't been paying off lately and the advertising industry has been looking outward for someone to blame rather than looking inward and seeing how they are a large part of the problem. Our world is so filled with advertising now that it's impossible for any one spot stick out. The result is that none of the advertising is persuasive and the industry is losing its gamble wholesale. The broadcast industry is at risk that their clients will decide that this type of advertising doesn't work.
If we are very very lucky this entire industry will collapse or explode and everyone will get up off of the couch and go running or read a book like you say.
-- Ecks
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly ... A lot of the stupidities of television can be easily be explained once you realise that the product is YOU, the viewer, and you are being sold to the advertisers, who are the real customers.
These shows that play on TV are just 'unfortunate necessities' of doing business.
Again I am reminded why I almost never watch TV and instead just play my DVDs with no commercials.
Agreed Reloaded (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Tivo's revenue stream and stock price. (Score:5, Insightful)
the last big news was that Microsoft just signed a deal with Comcast to provide DVR service, which directly competes with TIVO.
This ad-skipping commercial is good news for us shareholders. They need to prove that they have alternative revenues than just subscription.
Now to put on my consumer/techy hat. Why would anyone have a problem of seeing a banner ad rather than a blank screen when they fast forward? It's not hurting you in any way. I understand that since you pay 12.95 a month you should get it ad-free. But why not make the same request to cable television? I'm paying $33/month for cable TV, should I have the same expectation that Comedy Central is ad-free?
Re:Good Point (Score:4, Insightful)
Once you are used to watching commercial free and something happens (computer crash etc...) and you watch TV you feel assaulted after watching the commercials. I don't want to know (nor my kids to know) about the newest (fe)male enhancement drug.
I don't care about the next episode of some stupid sitcom with low ratings.
People say tv makes you dumber. I would have to say that commercials just add to that. Why waste 15 minutes watching an hour show when you can watch it later and in shorter time
The only dissadvantage to not having commercials is trying to make time for a pee break(oh I guess that is what the pause button is for)
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Rachael Ray is hot, and MXC is hilarious.
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Would it be OK if graphics card or monitor companies decided to show you non-invasive ads while you used your computer? Those companies need to make money too, right?.
Of course you assume there is such a thing as a non-invasive ad. If it's non-invasive, that means I won't see it. If I see it, then it's invasive. So how are they going to show me ads I don't see? Perhaps they'll be subliminabable.
Seen it all before.... (Score:1, Insightful)
I guess I'm simply going to watch "buffered TV" from the day before, as I simply don't want to spend 50% of my time watching commercials.
Google seem to be the only company that hasn't continuesly tightened the "commercial screw"
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
You pay for cable to get a set of channels. You can pay a premium for channels that guarantee not to interrupt the programming with commercials (e.g. HBO, Cinemax, etc.)
Similarly, people are paying a premium for TIVO services above and beyond regular TV service. One of the features they are paying for is to remove commercials from their programs. To forcefully add commercials back in is akin to HBO adding commercial breaks to their movies.
Comprenda?
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:2, Insightful)
Someone has to pay the salaries of the players that play against your beloved BoSox. Else there would be no league, no games, and no reason for BoSox to exist.
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Again, if you don't like the service, don't subscribe. The same could be said of HBO; if they decided to change the terms and add commercials, then you'd always have the option to cancel.
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Will they remove 30-second skip? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Umm... no.
Tivo doesn't make my reception any faster. That sounds very much like the Intel marketing that the Pentium 4 made the internet faster.
Tivo lets me record a number of shows when I can't watch them, so that I may watch them later. Tivo also provides a service of providing my hardware with up-to-date listings, as well as recording shows that I might like to fill up the space that I don't use.
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:2, Insightful)
Just like I dislike commercials, I also dislike your opinion of commercials. I DO NOT want to watch them, and I am willing to pay not to have to.
Just because you are accustomed to the subconscious gang-bang that is modern advertising culture, I will not condone my subjugation at the hands of your corporate masters.
Our rights are abstract and fleeting, easily stolen when we lapse in fortitude and much costlier to regain than to sustain. Your willingness to give up yours not only drags the rest of us down with you, but makes it harder for others to support you in the future.
I am not saying that Tivo is stripping our rights, I am saying that Tivo engendered a certain pioneering vision in the masses' fight that is now becoming corrupted. While this is not surpising, Tivo is corporate and is beholden to higher powers, it is another distressing example of the corporate advertising influence in society.
I think advertising is the worst and most prevalent drug in our society and that people fail to realize the impact it has on their subconscious. Mass market advertising contributes to the mental enslavement of the world to corporate society.
Re:Tivo's revenue stream and stock price. (Score:4, Insightful)
No, you don't understand. It's completely different.
If you were a new customer to cable, you would expect commercials on most channels. It would have been no surprise if you had done just a cursory amount of research on the service you were signing up for.
If you saw TiVO at a friend's house and signed up for it, you would not have the expectation of any banner ads whatsoever, no matter how much research you did on the service (rumors aside). All of the sudden, you will now be getting ads.
Bait and switch.
Skipping the commercials breaks TV revenue model (Score:2, Insightful)
Until we adopt pay-tv like Great Britain, in the American model of TV economics it's those pesky commercials that pay for the non-premium programming.
TV shows are only a by-product (Score:2, Insightful)
They are in the business of delivering consumers to advertisers.
Delivering entertainment to consumers is simply a side-effect of their reason for being in business -- it's just one means to achieve their purpose. As soon as it doesn't work, there's no reason for them to keep producing the side-effect (your shows) instead of looking for a better way to deliver your attention to advertisers.
$0.02,
ptd
Read the article please! (Score:3, Insightful)
Contrary to what the post implies, people don't buy a Tivo to "avoid advertising". They buy it so they can watch shows how & when they want, and so that they can fast-forward through advertising. You can still fast-forward through the ads, you'll just be shown a logo on the screen during the ad you're fast-forwarding through. This will likely be no more intrusive then the "Record this program" logo that shows up one ads for certain TV programs already. Not the end of the world, really.
Finally, I want to know, why is there such an overwhelming anti-Tivo sentiment on Slashdot? I understand the anti-Microsoft sentiment. But Microsoft is a company that makes frequently bad products, charges outrageous prices (that you really have no choice but to pay), offers lousy customer service, routinely violates anti-trust laws, Etc.. NONE of these really apply to Tivo. Some people object to their monthly fees, but if you don't like it you can feel free to build your MythTV box. But you'll probably end up spending considerably more in the long run, and be prepared for lot's more hassles, Oh, and your TV litings, though free, won't go as far in advance (last I checked xmltv only gave you one week of listings), and be prepared to upgrade xmltv at least every couple of months, sometimes twice a week (usually with no advance notice-- your listings just stop working).
Tivo makes a solid, VERY well designed product. They sell it cheap, but charge a reasonable monthly fee to use the service. They're even reasonably supportive of the hacking community. Yes, they hope to make a profit in the process. What's really wrong with that?
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Except I didn't have to spend $300 up front for HBO, on top of their monthly subscription. If I cancel HBO, I'm not losing anything. If I cancel the TiVo service, that $300 box just became a big paperweight.
Re:Questions (Score:2, Insightful)
While IANAL, I suspect that if you engage in activity that breaks their business model, they are well within their rights to exclude you from their business.
Movie theatres usually lose money on movie tickets and recover the money from the concession stand. Theatres can (and do) legally restrict patrons from bringing in their own food.
Some websites (slashdot?) give away the web service and make money from advertising. Some websites can (and do) legally restrict bots from their site.
The list goes on and on...
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:4, Insightful)
This was moderated insightful?
Pro-level video projects cost money. You can't film everything on location. You can't get all locations for free. You have to pay actors and skilled crewmembers - after all, this is their DAY JOB. Not everyone works for free.
This will be a small and tiny niche. It will not grow - because creating media costs more than the cost of a camera and a microphone.
Re:How do you separate the two? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:2, Insightful)
As to the 'don't like it, don't subscribe', sure, that makes sense if you haven't bought a Tivo yet, but given the price for a Tivo (I paid $200 for mine), it goes a bit beyond that. In all honesty, I wouldn't have bought mine if I had known they were going to do this. It's been long enough that I can just eat the price, but if I had just bought one new, I'd be mighty pissed.
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:1, Insightful)
Uhh, that's called branding, not advertising. I don't think Tivo will just be putting up the Tivo logo, right?
Think about it for a minute - is Dell Paying themself for the placement of the Dell Logo on a Dell product?
No. They're not. Because that's branding of their own product.
But if your Dell Computer had a Coke logo on the front of it, well, that's advertising.
Get it now?
Re: Get in touch with reality please! (Score:2, Insightful)
I hate to break it to you, but some people do buy a Tivo for this express purpose. If you don't believe it, then you are out of touch.
Finally, I want to know, why is there such an overwhelming anti-Tivo sentiment on Slashdot?
Maybe it is because we bought our tivo's to avoid ads, which you don't seem to realize, and what is Tivo repeatedly trying to do? Put ads in front of us. Take away or limit features that help us to avoid ads.
Of course, being out of touch with the first point, would explain your puzzlement on the second point.
"TiVo viewers will see "billboards," or small logos, popping up over TV commercials as they fast-forward through them, offering contest entries, giveaways or links to other ads." Not quite the overwhelming barrage of advertising that some of you seem to be implying.
You may not see a problem with this, as you explained. And that is fine for you. But I don't want ads, or small logos, or offerings of contest entries, or giveaways or links to other crap crap crap. That's what I am trying to get away from.
As I said, you probably don't understand the anti-Tivo sentiment because you do not share the loathing of the ads.
This will likely be no more intrusive then the "Record this program" logo that shows up one ads for certain TV programs already. Not the end of the world, really.
Spam will likely be no more intrusive than an e-mail logo that shows up as one more subject line in your inbox. Not the end of the world, really.
(Of course, I may be making a false assumption. Maybe you think spam is not so bad?)
Tivo makes a solid, VERY well designed product. They sell it cheap, but charge a reasonable monthly fee to use the service. They're even reasonably supportive of the hacking community. Yes, they hope to make a profit in the process. What's really wrong with that?
Yes, yes, and also yes. Finally, nothing is wrong with that.
If part of their effort to make profit is to put craptacular logos and giveaways and contests in front of my face, then they are undermining the very profit they seek. Isn't it obvious that people don't want this? (Maybe not, see my first response above.)
Re:I dont think its such a bad idea (Score:2, Insightful)
while i think we all find tv commercials annoying, i would say that the primary issue is not the content, but the delay in programming. ya ya the content is offensive and degrading, but that's the price of living in a society such as ours, so get used to it. tivo is not causing any delay in programming. i'm okay with that. compare this to web page advertising. while it might add minimal time to your browsing, in general it is palpable. if you want to make a comparison to tv commercials, that would be like if the browser locked me into an advertising-only page for a fixed amount of time. i think most folks would fine that unacceptable.
when you buy tivo service, you are not paying for the right to ff through commericials. you are paying to get the program listing downloaded into your device. in fact you can certainly use your tivo without the monthly fee, you just need to program the record times and channels manually. tivo does not make money off of the device. your thinking of the manufacturers, like sony, and everyone else that produces tivo devices. tivo writes the software for the device, but it's done on a no-profit basis in order to get more tivo devices out there and therefore get more subscriptions to the listing service. tivo is not is a position to charge premiums to device manufacturers to use the tivo service.
Re:Questions (Score:3, Insightful)
Bull. Broadcasters are not charging me anything. They are *hoping* that I actually will watch the commercials, but their desire imposes no legal or moral obligation on me. Just like my credit card company hopes that I won't pay off my balance every month; I suppose I'm stealing from them when I do?