Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Books Data Storage Media Music

National Library Service Plans Next-Gen Audiobooks 110

Posted by timothy from the good-sound-sounds-good dept.
The New York Times (as carried here by CNET, registration-free) is reporting on what seems like an overdue update planned by the adminstrators of the National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, which -- thanks to a copyright exemption -- can provide audiobooks without paying royalties. The Library Service will switch from 4-track tape players to audio devices based on flash memory. The article does not mention what sort of codec might be chosen, but does mention a couple of reasons (fragility, and diffculty for use by the blind) to not simply use CDs bearing some compressed audio format. The amount of listenable audio that can be squeezed into readily available pocket-sized storage these days is incredible, at least if you consider listenable things like the 32kbps recordings of old radio shows that the Sherlock Holmes Society of London makes available. (I wonder why small hard drives weren't chosen, though; they seem to bear up pretty well.)
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

National Library Service Plans Next-Gen Audiobooks More

National Library Service Plans Next-Gen Audiobooks

Comments Filter:
  • I'm not too sure that it would that much easier for the blind to have to use these small flash cards. It's probably little bit easier for them to locate and handle a CD than a tiny card.
    • Its harder to scratch and get fingerprints that could adversely affect the playback on a flash card then it is a CD.
      • Yes but it is cheaper to replace a 700Mb CD than a 756MB flashcard.

        I convert all my audio books to MP3-CDs so that I can listen to them on long trips with out changing CDs all the time. I have found that at 96kbs you can get about 20Hrs on one $0.25 CD-r. Its also good for mowing the 4 acres of yard I have.

    • Re:Small Isn't Necesarrily Better (Score:5, Informative)

      by kfg ( 145172 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @08:28PM (#11063247)
      Dealing well with blindness requires a certain amount of discipline (I'm not blind, but I have done volunteer reading (finding engineers/scientists who can read engineering/science texts to blind engineers/scientists seems to be a particular problem) and other services for them).

      You can just toss a CD on a table or something and find it. A blind person may not be able to do so, so the blind have places for things, and actually put those things in those places so as to always know where to look for them. Otherwise anything simply put down may be effectively "lost."

      A flash card in it's place is no harder to find and handle than a CD.

      The problem is the handling, not because of the size, but because of the way blind people have to use their fingers as their eyes, to do things like get the CD into the slot/tray, which can (and does) easily result in scratched CDs.

      You can fumble around for the flash slot a bit without worrying about losing your data.

      KFG
      • The most obvious problem I can foresee with blind people using a CD is knowing which side the label is on.

        Try it yourself, close your eyes and try to work out which side is which.

        With a plugin device, you know its right without looking (Plug a mouse into the back of a computer box without being able to see the port for a good example).
        • It is actually quite easy considering the silk screen used to print those material - the touch of plastic and the printed words are very different, and those visually handicapped has their touch skill trained really well. I've just tried to ask my friend next door if he can, and he definitely can tell me which side of it was printed.
      • ok.. blast from the past for a minute.. what about the OLD Caddy Systems (remember this? [retrotechnology.com]) Macs used to have where the CD is in a plasic case and the whole unit is put into the reader... I don't know much about these or if the idea could be re-created better. Bit I like the idea of having a standard media (CD for example) however with soemthing like a special case.
    • I don't know if this would be a problem for the blind, but I think they might have ifficulty putting th cd in right-side-up

      • I don't know if this would be a problem for the blind, but I think they might have ifficulty putting th cd in right-side-up

        So they'll have a friend copy it to a usb flash card keychain. Completely legal to copy under their exemption.

        Also, it will be much easier to make multiple copies that way than it would to burn multiple CDs.

        And a LOT easier on the environment. The flash card can be rewritten, and people can even customize their list of works on the card. Don't like something, you only delete the pa

        • So they'll have a friend copy it to a usb flash card keychain.

          Not everyone has a friend, espeically when you also have a disability.

          I've only known two blind people in my life, and both of them seemed pretty focused on the concept of self-sufficency, rather than asking friends to do piddly tasks for them all the time. They want to live like anyone else does, and (aside from my mom asking me to wire the house for cable TV) that generally means doing thing on their own.
    • I think it would be quite easy. It's probably easier to have audio books on one small flash player, at low bit rates, than to have it scattered over 20 scratched CDs, or 15 mangled, twisted cassettes. The only thing that might be a problem here is the media player itself. Will it be able to fast forward, support 24 or 32kbps mono, or be easy to use?
      • "I found the tapes frustrating at times," Terri Uttermohlen said. "The sound quality isn't consistent. And I also found myself getting all excited at the end of

  • Test of time (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bigberk ( 547360 ) <bigberk@users.pc9.org> on Saturday December 11, 2004 @08:16PM (#11063184)
    Whatever format is chosen, it had better withstand the test of time. I'm sure solid state storage or something else suitable can make the data survive for a long time, but will the secret to decoding the data be buried along with the company that championed it? Seems to me that there would be a major advantage to sticking to pure PCM WAV or AU, maybe Ogg Vorbis / FLAC... the point being, there's no way the data should be put into RealAudio format or something proprietary like that.

    • Re:Test of time (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 11, 2004 @08:55PM (#11063351)
      Blind users liked good old audio tape, actually. The reason? Insert tape. Play for a bit. Stop. Eject. Reinsert next day - and lo! it carries on from where you left off listening. CDs, for example, reset to track one. Thus they didn't consider books-on-CD (as apposed to audio cassettes) to be 'progress'. Can't think why.

      • Re:Test of time (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Mod Parent up.

        Audio tapes are cheap, relatively easy to mass produce, and big enough to label with enough braille so that you can work out what that tape in the pile of 20 on your desk is. A typical book will easily take a dozen tapes, so finding tape 7 of 18 of your book is useful. The more sophisticated players can also bookmark tapes by recording low-frequency tones on the tapes that are audible when the tape is fast-forwarded or rewound, but not audible when the tape is played at 'normal' speeds (whi
    • that should exactly be the way to do stuff. the algorithm for de-coding should be universal, so that it works for all kinds of hardware and softwares...

  • CELP==Joy (Score:4, Interesting)

    by claudius0425 ( 679268 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @08:19PM (#11063200)
    the storage requirements are even smaller than you estimate: consider that these would be pure speech files, so a CELP-derived codec would be appropriate.
    remember, Speex is intelligable at 6kbps, decent at 8kbps, and functionally excellent at 11 kbps.
    • GSM is 8kbps. Very good for speech. You can fit 4h speech into 28M. This is about 100 hours per CD or equivelent storage.

      • There are several codecs in the GSM system; the most widely implemented one outside of cellphones is the 13 kbps GSM 06.10 codec, which has the advantage that it doesn't crap out on music.

    • Actually, no. 8kbps is marginal. I used to d/l a lot of stuff from AudiobooksForFree [audiobooksforfree.com]. I think about a year ago, they changed their 'inserted ad' model, to one of vastly reduced bitrate for the free audiobooks. The free ones are mp3's at 8kbps, and are on the edge of unusable. It may be the way they are encoded

      I may break down and buy their DVD offerings, with many, many audiobooks for ~$100. They do have a large and eclectic collection.

  • > I wonder why small hard drives weren't chosen, > though; they seem to bear up pretty well. Drop a hard drive (even in a good case) and it's often not too well afterwards. This has been a problem for me - so is likely to be a problem for the blind or partially signed, as I know from my late grandfather. Basically, removable media needs to be as robust as possible especially for use in a public service.

  • Just got to thinking and searching.... (Score:3, Informative)

    by GillBates0 ( 664202 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @08:26PM (#11063233) Homepage Journal
    and discovered, there's something called BLINUX [leb.net](Linux for blind users) (quotes in italics):

    Blind + Linux = BLINUX
    "The purpose of BLINUX project is to improve usability of the LINUX operating system for the user who is blind"

    It also turns out that the Command Line Interface is better for blind users than a GUI: [eklhad.net]

    Unfortunately, almost all modern applications present information in a two-dimensional format, and most employ graphical icons that have no meaning for the blind. Since it is impractical to rewrite all these applications, the blind community has been forced to perform a rather awkward retrofit, using various adapters. We should recognize that this is not the ideal solution. Pasting a screen reader on top of Netscape makes it accessible, but the result is hardly efficient. Over the past decade a small minority of blind users have discovered Linux, a free, text-based operating system for the home computer. Linux applications rarely employ graphics, and most of them are already linear, just like the mode (speech or braille) that is our Karma. All other things being equal, Linux is the best operating system for a blind user.

    Interesting to say the least...and Open Source makes it possible for (non profit) institutions closely acquainted with working with disabled people to adapt the software as necessary.....rather than relying on the perception and motivations of a (profit minded) corporation(s).

    • Command Line Interface is better for blind users than a GUI

      Is this really surprising? I frequently have trouble finding my pointer on the screen without moving it around, and I have decent vision. In a CLI you can just type; in most cases there is no need to get feedback as to the location of the cursor.

      For the record, I prefer the CLI to a GUI for many operations and use it daily in Linux and Windows. (If I had money for a Mac, I'm pretty sure I'd use it there too.)

  • flash drives are fine (Score:4, Interesting)

    by frovingslosh ( 582462 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @08:27PM (#11063238)
    (I wonder why small hard drives weren't chosen, though; they seem to bear up pretty well.)

    It doesn't really matter if flash or hard drives are used, as once the data is in this format it will be easy to move between the technologies. I suspect flash is being used because it's much cheaper (for a device that still holds plenty of audio) and more rugged than a hard drive based unit.

    The real question is, although this material is being produced thanks to a copyright exemption for the handicapped, doesn't any citizen have a right to the information once it is produced? And why do the blind get all the good parking spaces?

    • Re:flash drives are fine (Score:4, Funny)

      by Geoffreyerffoeg ( 729040 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @09:47PM (#11063544)
      And why do the blind get all the good parking spaces?

      Can they drive, let alone park?

      Reminds me of a joke by Yakov Smirnov (inventor of In Soviet Russia): Only in America do drive-up ATMs have Braille on the numbers.
      • Braille on the numbers, even at a drive-up atm, but no actual way for a blind person to use the machine since everything else (which way up to insert the card, account balances, the actions of the four 'function' buttons) is entirely visual and inaccessable to a blind user.

        Perhaps your machines are different, but over here ATM machines are definately not accessable.

        • Where I come from, ATMs have a 3.5mm headphone jack, and the machine reads prompts through the headphone jack. Yes, I understand that this would not work for deaf-blind people, but they're offtopic in a discussion about audio books.

    • The real question is, although this material is being produced thanks to a copyright exemption for the handicapped, doesn't any citizen have a right to the information once it is produced?

      No.

      The applicable exemption is 17 USC 121.

      It permits only government agencies and nonprofit organizations with the primary mission of providing certain services to the blind to reproduce and distribute certain works if they are in specialized formats, exclusively for the use of the blind or disabled.

      It really sucks

  • Librarian Action Figure (Score:3, Funny)

    by Photar ( 5491 ) <photar AT photar DOT net> on Saturday December 11, 2004 @08:44PM (#11063307) Homepage
    Can't mention libraries with out mentioning this:
    Librarian Action Figure [mcphee.com]
  • So yes, this is an excellent idea, but now the question I have is this:

    Who will do the actual reading of all these books whose copyrights expired? And, under what terms will these reading performances be distributed?

    Even if the text they read is public domain, the rights to the performance of the reading belong to the performer, and can be bought and sold if the performer chooses. He or she can also choose to release the performances into the public domain with a copyleft license. Obviously, this is wha

    • It's not for expired copyright works, but rather they are talking about an exemption in copyrighting books that allows libraries to make audiobooks for the blind without paying royalties. The blind do get shafted in a lot of ways, but they are at least allowed to have audiobooks made from copyrighted works. I know that around here there is a group that broadcasts newspapers on radio for the blind and reads books over the radio for the blind. These services are volunteer-run, and seem popular with many el
    • Even if the text they read is public domain, the rights to the performance of the reading belong to the performer, and can be bought and sold if the performer chooses.

      No, only if the performance is itself a copyrightable work. This means it will have to satisfy the requirement of being an original work of authorship without reference to the underlying work. Very basic sound engineering and performing might not suffice. Also, even if it does, it's not a given that the copyright would vest in the performer;

  • iPods? (Score:1)

    by Photar ( 5491 )
    Why not just get them all iPods?

    • Re:iPods? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by meehawl ( 73285 )
      Why not just get them all iPods?

      Can an iPod do talking menus [rockbox.org] or run an audio feedback UI?
    • Why not just get them all iPods?

      Then they'll have to go to Duke.

      Seriously, iPods have a visual interface. Their device has to be usable with at most static Braille text.
    • Why not just get them all iPods?

      The service provides audio books and players for the blind and disabled. You might try offering your ultra cool palm sized mp3 player to someone with a neurological disease like MS and see how well they manage.

      • ... to someone with a neurological disease like MS...

        You know you've been reading /. too long when you read the above as a Microsoft slam.
  • Even though the Archos mp3 players have screens, the open-source personal jukebox software Rockbox [rockbox.org] recently implemented a Talking Menu system that can announce directories and playlists. It's useful for non-visual operation, and it proving to be a hit with blind users [rockbox.org]. Rockbox is being ported [rockbox.org] to some of the iRiver players...

    The last time I wrote about this it was marked down as Troll, probably by some iPod-happy blind-person-hating fanboi. If you're reading this then you are a grade A wanker.
  • Why are they bothering even making these people cart themselves to the library? Why not just let them download the books online? I understand this brings into question copyright problems, but seriously... what's the difference between taking home a flash key and then saving it to your desktop or just downloading it from their website? This is just an unnecessary step in the process.

    • Re:why even go to the library? (Score:4, Informative)

      by westlake ( 615356 ) on Saturday December 11, 2004 @10:17PM (#11063702)
      Why are they bothering even making these people cart themselves to the library?

      The service is a lending library that provides books and players to the blind and disabled. It works much like Netflix. But there are no rental fees or postal charges of any sort. Readers are often elderly, housebound, or in nursing homes, with multiple disabilites, no internet access, no mobility, no disposable income worth mentioning.

      • And how many times have you seen an elderly person on the internet, or on a computer for that matter? I know my grandparents don't even have a computer.. so it makes it easier for them to actually 'pick' up the audio books. And if you want to read books online you can always check out Project Gutenberg, http://www.gutenberg.org/ [gutenberg.org].
  • This is a ridiculous waste. Why don't they just use regular CDs, with regular CDDA audio, and have special CD players with Braille "displays" and big buttons? The media doesn't have to be special; all their blind/disabled audience requirements can be met with special players, which aren't that expensive. And the rest of us can share the media on existing devices. I smell corporate welfare, cloaked in sympathy for the "disabled", who will be served worse by having their own audiobook ghetto that doesn't bene

    • Re:sounds contrived (Score:3, Informative)

      by KC7GR ( 473279 )
      I'm sorry you think it is a waste. Permit me to disagree with you most strongly. I speak from the perspective of being married to a wonderful lady, who also happens to have lost most of her sight. She is considered legally blind to the point that she cannot drive, and to where she needs adaptive technology to use a computer. I am often called upon to be her eyes.

      Regular CD's may seem like a good idea at first. However, as was noted by another poster, they can only hold 80 minutes per disc, tops, and that's
      • Well, you're also a "Head Hardware Heavy", so you're also interested in seeing special new gear developed, where technique is more efficient, with better side effects on the human level. So CDs have only 80 minutes - how about 2, 3, or more CDs? Or MP3 CDs, which plenty of cheap CD players now play out of the box, and could contain practically every series of books at 16Kbps/mono on a single CD?

        If you want gear, how about adding just a controller dongle, like the inline remotes on the headphone cable that

        • So CDs have only 80 minutes - how about 2, 3, or more CDs?

          It's still apparently much harder for a person with limited or no vision to pick up a CD and put it in the player without scratching it. Caddied MP3 CDs could possibly work.

        • ...the social benefits to using existing tech for audiobooks for visually impaired people. When they can use regular CDs, they can exchange them with sighted people. That fosters socializing across the arbitrary divide of sightedness...

          Exchanging and talking about audiobooks with just anyone will give some visually impaired people a chance to star in social groups, because the imagination is where the action is, with sight merely a biotechnology to achieve it. I am mindful of the most successful "audiobook
          • You have just decided to oppose my idea, and are unable to understand my post because you're looking to find fault where none exists. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

            I'm not justifying CD audiobooks in order to make superstars of blind people - I'm just pointing out the alienating effect of making them use a separate tech than that for sighted people. As opposed to exchanging audiobooks with sighted people, without that arbitrary division. I merely remarked in response to other criticism
    • This is a ridiculous waste. Why don't they just use regular CDs, with regular CDDA audio, and have special CD players with Braille "displays" and big buttons? The media doesn't have to be special; all their blind/disabled audience requirements can be met with special players, which aren't that expensive. And the rest of us can share the media on existing devices.

      Have you ever listened to an unabridged audio book. Often times it's over 20CDs.. It's more of a waste to use CDs. At lower bit rates you can fit
      • Make them MP3 CDs, then, which can fit many books on one CD that most new, cheap CD players can play. The blind people aren't being exploited here, except as inducement for everyone to pay the designated beneficiary of the National Library Service extra bucks for an unnecessarily specialized technology.

        BTW, I'm all for audiobooks, like all prostheses: in an age of beginning technology, barely adequate for even rudimentary tasks, we're all "disabled" in one way or another. Audiobooks for blind people benefi
        • Make them MP3 CDs, then, which can fit many books on one CD that most new, cheap CD players can play. The blind people aren't being exploited here, except as inducement for everyone to pay the designated beneficiary of the National Library Service extra bucks for an unnecessarily specialized technology.

          Tax payers are going to be saving money because it costs more to provide 20 CDs/15 90min. cassettes, and replace the defective CDs and tapes that have to be done continually due to scratches, when they coul
          • If this story were about a NLS plan to use existing Flash/MP3 players for audiobooks, which *everyone* would use, it wouldn't be a waste of money. This story is about a *new technology* to do what CDs can already do. If the audiobook is longer than an hour or two, a 16Kbps or so MP3 CD can play in practically every newer CD player. That would be a great story.
  • I dont understand why they dont let you download ebooks and cd's from some super library. They could make some program that would make sure people would "return" (delete the material) after the due date and can only be checked out by 1 person at a time. Currently you can check out a cd from a library or blockbuster and rip it and return it... if their program was encrypted well enough to block people from grabbing the media out of it, it would be even more secure than a current book/cd check out currently

  • Radio Reading Service (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I work for an open channel radio reading service for the blind and print impaired. We are limited to making four copies of a reading in order to maintain our copyright exemption.

    Most radio reading services are closed channel on a sub carrier, and the listeners have to be provided with specialized gear to pick up the signal. These radios are free, but they must be physician-authorized. Some services also stream via the internet, but the sites are password protected.

    I presume that talking libraries are limi
  • Ok, so as I understood the blurb (yeah yeah...RTFA...i know), they can ignore copyright laws on all printed books, including new releases and such and convert them to audio books. They can then release these free of charge to people who are blind?

    So wait...what exactly is the legal definition of blind here? Could I just squint really hard and pretend?

    Seriously, they should start a free online bittorrent system and let all of the blind people with an internet connection (wink wink.....oh god, that was doub

    • So wait...what exactly is the legal definition of blind here?

      Blind persons whose visual acuity, as determined by competent authority, is 20/200 or less in the better eye with correcting lenses, or whose widest diameter of visual field subtends an angular distance no greater than 20 degrees.
      That All May Read [loc.gov]

      Other physically handicapped persons are eligible as follows:

      Persons whose visual disability, with correction and regardless of optical measurement, is certified by competent authority as preventin

  • At Kendall College of Art and Design (michigan) our semester project was sponosred by the Library of Congress to design a new digital talking book for the blind. My design involved a booklike metaphor to protect components such as buttons and batteries and could also angle the speaker toward the listener. The winning design came from another school though, and was actually booklike in nature. Here is some text about the unfortunately named "dook", sorry no other links or pictures could be found. It did loo

  • P2P (Score:2)

    by randalx ( 659791 )
    Why are they even bothering with this system of sending out audio books by mail. Why not set up a private P2P network for the blind and let thme dl the books to whatever device they want to use. Wouldn't that cost less/be more efficient? For those with slow connections/no connections to the internet provide them with a subsidized computer (running linux of course) and high speed connection. They can then also use the internet for whatever other services. Doesn't this seem a bit more advanced?
  • But the technology used by the National Library Service for people like Uttermohlen has more in common with the
    era of "Starsky and Hutch" than it does with the age of downloaded digital information.
    Is this how we're classifying era's now? The author must have been born during the era of "Gilligan's Island".

  • Are the libraries transmitting works digitally between libraries?

    Are the libraries allowing themselves a certain number of copies per work to be in circulation?

    If so, are there restrictions on becoming a library?

    And how about a similar system for the non-handicapped?

  • Two minutes after seeing this story I picked up an old copy of New Scientist magazine from August 21-27 2004... on page 22 (of the US edition) there's a reference to a CD player designed specifically for the visually impaired : "Symphony Radio" from Roberts.

    I googled for the website, and found it here https://secure.virtuality.net/blindorg/catalogue.h tml [virtuality.net]

    It has an audible radio tuner, and keeps bookmarks for CDs. The downside is that it's not at all cheap by today's prices, especially for US consumers

Slashdot Top Deals

Understanding is always the understanding of a smaller problem in relation to a bigger problem. -- P.D. Ouspensky

Close