LokiTorrent vs. MPAA 909
ravenspear writes "It seems that the attack on torrent sites is continuing strong. This time Lokitorrent is being sued by the MPAA. Unlike Suprnova and most of the previous sites however, they aren't planning to just roll over and die. It will no doubt be a dificult fight, but they plan to stay up for the time being. Also, they are asking for donations to cover their legal expenses. So far they have raised $8,755 out of a needed $30,000. "
Update (Score:5, Informative)
Also, they posted an image of the of the complaint they were served with here [img68.exs.cx].
Paypal address... (Score:5, Informative)
Just FYI, their paypal address appears to be support@lokitorrent.com. If you're going to post a story about a site taking donations to fight a lawsuit, at least include a way to donate AFTER you Slashdot their site to hell and back.
Re:So.... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Question to people who donate (Score:3, Informative)
Re:hosting links isn't illegal (Score:2, Informative)
It isn't. That's why Google has been forced to takedown various links due to letters they've received from Kazaa and the Church of Scientology. If they receive a letter stating that they are linking to copyright material, they are required by law (the DMCA evidentially) to take it down.
It Seems They've Already Caved To MS (Score:5, Informative)
Any and all Microsoft software and XBOX games are "banned" from the site. Check their upload page.
http://www.lokitorrent.com/torrents-upload.php [lokitorrent.com]
Re:So.... (Score:5, Informative)
My opinion (Score:3, Informative)
I think bittorrent(as well as other P2P) has the power to subvert the coporate hold on media and provide an avenue for indie media to get thier art out in the public space. But its been given a bad name when its used in copyright infringment.
Im not exactly a fan of the MPAA or DMCA but I dont think copyright infringment is the way to change the landscape of art. It sends the wrong message.
[plug]
You can help give bittorrent a better name by clicking the link in my sig.
[/plug]
Re:So.... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:hosting links isn't illegal (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Update (Score:2, Informative)
2600.com & DeCSS (Score:5, Informative)
They lost the case.
Re:So.... (Score:3, Informative)
"Distributing copyrighted materials without a license is not a criminal offense. It is a violation of a civil right that gives rise to a civil cause of action."
It carries both civil and criminal penalties. Here's where one can learn about criminal copyright infringement [copyright.gov].
"And, as others have pointed out, these sites are not distributing copyrighted content, but links to information detailing ways to obtain copyrighted content, subtle difference, but nothing worse than what Grokster is doing and that has already been ruled not to be contributory infringement."
The thing about the law is that those subtle differences can make all the difference. "A is kind of like B, so if A is legal/illegal, so must B" should not be assumed to be true. Torrents are derived from the works in question; they contain hashes of the file and other data. They're more than just an HTML link.
Either way, a quick look at their torrent page [lokitorrent.com] makes it pretty darn obvious they know what they're doing. Compare their operation to one of the dozens of legitimate sites like legaltorrents.com [legaltorrents.com].
Re:lokitorrent is still illegal (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.crblaw.com/GetFAQAnswer.asp?id=49 [crblaw.com] has a blurb about it.
http://www.chillingeffects.org/piracy/faq.cgi#QID
Re:So.... (Score:1, Informative)
I believe one of the largest legal trackers is bt.etree.org. A wonderful way to get great, live, legal lossless music for free.
(I use legal tracker in a loose sense.)
Re:What's next? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:So.... (Score:5, Informative)
Torrents are not "derivative works" under the definition of copyright because they are not "works." Works include:
17 U.S.C. 102(a).A Cliff's Note is a derivative work. A card in a library's card catalog telling how many pages are in a book, etc. is not a derivative work. A torrent file is much more like a library card than a Cliff's Note. As for criminal copyright violation, that requires willful violation which can be very difficult to prove, especially when the violation may occur before the site owner knows that they may be facilitating a violation.
Very specific... (Score:4, Informative)
Read the C&D letter. They are VERY SPECIFIC as to what their gripe is
Tom
Re:lokitorrent is still illegal (Score:3, Informative)
No, not at all.
Google is registered with the Copyright Office as a service provider and generally qualifies for the protection offered by 17 USC 512.
Lokitorrent is not registered, and anyway probably isn't eligible anyway.
The law is that you are liable for copyright infringement if:
1) You directly infringe on a copyright by, e.g. reproducing it or distributing it.
2) Someone else directly infringes on a copyright, and you materially contribute to that infringement, while knowing of the infringement.
3) Someone else directly infringes on a copyright, and you have the right and ability to control their infringement, and you directly benefit from the infringement.
Lokitorrent is probably a contributory infringer -- providing links to torrents, tracking, etc. contributes to the direct infringements of the users, and they probably know that infringement is going on.
If they can remove their links et al, and derive some benefit that is sufficiently tracable to them (e.g. using them to get more traffic than they otherwise would, then selling ad space) then they're probably a vicarious infringer too.
The aforementioned 512 provides a great defense to this, but there are requirements for eligibility for most of it. There are affirmative steps needed to get it, and you can't be as contemptuous of the law as most of the people in the scene seem to be either, frankly.
As it stands now, if the Lokitorrent folks are in US jurisdiction, they're quite screwed. They have no real defense. What they need the $30 grand for, I can't imagine.
Re:$9940 (Score:2, Informative)
Re:other torrents down (Score:1, Informative)
http://www.torrentreactor.to
Go get em MPAA, sick em, go boy go. Woof woof!
Re:Question to people who donate (Score:3, Informative)
Since Paypal is the company that charged your card, Paypal would be the company that would be the subject of the chargeback. I agree that Paypal is a shady organization, but I wouldn't call them a non-existant entity.
Did you forget the Clear Channel problem? (Score:2, Informative)
You know, there's the thing called "radio". It's how you get to listen to songs for free.
Commercial FM radio is thoroughly owned by Clear Channel Communications and the other major broadcasters, and getting a song added to Clear Channel playlists is cost prohibitive for independent artists and smaller labels. Therefore, all one hears on commercial radio is ads for major label records and ads for other products.
Oh, there's this new-fangled thing called "internet radio" too. It's free too!
No it isn't; you have to lose your allowance to get your parents to upgrade from dial-up to broadband, and you have to be sitting at a computer to listen, as mobile wireless Internet access is still cost prohibitive.
New Image Link (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Huh? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What do you mean, "next"? (Score:3, Informative)
Absolutely not. At least not yet.
The DMCA is bad, but it isn't quite that bad.
What is restricted is any exchange of information relating to circumvention of copy prevention mechanisms -- like CSS or macrovision. Simply talking about how to "circumvent copyrights" aka make copies, is not restricted.
Update #2 - Up to $11,520 now (Score:4, Informative)
Re:holy crap (Score:1, Informative)
Re:So.... (Score:3, Informative)
-
However, while the RIAA went after the entire P2P network, despite the legal uses that is could, and to some extent was being put to, the MPAA is just going after copyright infringers. So far at least.
Too late, the way Bittorrent works the actual files are not hosted on the trackers, the tracker contains only info on peers who are participating in the torrent and a hash of the file/file segments so users can verify parts downloaded. If the MPAA wanted to go after the actual infringers, they would be suing the people on the torrent, not the trackers, or the sites that are basically torrent trackers (like Suprnova was, it didn't run any tracker, just linked to the torrent files on whatever tracker they were on).I think the problem here is not everyone understands fully how Bittorrent works, or they'd be just as pissed as they were about suits against Napster, Kazaa, Grokster, etc. since they trackers are similar to those. The tracker only provides info to find the copyrighted matierial, it does not reside on the server.
It's interesting to note that Lokitorrents keeps a blacklist and rejected torrents (and banned users uploading them) for items on it. They had a policy of adding anything to the blacklist if asked to by the rights holders, most of the stuff on it was from Microsoft since they actually bothered to ask. The MPAA didn't, they just sued instead. Not everyday you can say something is more evil than Microsoft. :)
Re:$30K? (Score:3, Informative)
Update #3 - Up to $13955 (Score:3, Informative)
First there was the... (Score:2, Informative)
I can Buy a DAT recorder to copy music --> taxes are included on tapes to compensate the music industry
I can buy a CD-recorder, DVD recorder to copy anything --> taxes are included on CD's to compensate the music industry
I can get an ADSL connection to the internet, buy a harddrive etc. to copy music and the rest. Now please tell me WHY all of a sudden this is a problem???
FACT:
- downloading music has increased in 2004
- CD and DVD sales have increased in 2004
Conclusions:
dowloading music has no negative effect on sales of CD and DVD, maby even increases it.
Prices are Too high: i.e. a regular audio CD in the Netherlands is 23-25 euro. That is about the price of the cheapest adsl connection....you do the math
It is a losing battle if record companies keeps the prices up.
I am off to allofmp3, latersss
Re:Mod THIS Parent Down (Score:3, Informative)