Venezuela Moves Further Toward Open Source 406
baquiano writes "Today the Venezuelan press reports that the government has formally issued a decree (English translation) which prioritizes the use of free/open source software over proprietary systems in government entities. This follows a year of pilot deployments in Venezuela's Info Centros (Internet public access points) and some ministries. (Past attempts, reported by Slashdot, by former Minister of Science and Technology Felipe Perez Marti to push ahead this initiative were allegedly foiled by Microsoft.) The decree calls for plans to actively deploy FOSS during a 24-month period."
Great, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't mean to be too cynical, but I'm sure even the Venezualan people would admit that they are not the foremost force in world IT. Quite right, this is a victory for Open Source, but could we save the dancing in the streets for when a slightly more major player joins our side?
This reminds me of Bush's hilarious "You forgot Poland!" in the first presidential debate.
A positive development ...? (Score:4, Insightful)
So, shall we add MS? (Score:5, Insightful)
it never ceases to amaze me... (Score:5, Insightful)
...how Microsoft can get away with determining the priorities and policies of foreign governments. How often in history does a private enterprise have this much power?
In any case, I applaud Venezuela now for actually paying attention to this kind of thing. Think about how many other issues they have to deal with, yet they still managed to account for stuff like this (cost to government for software). Look at where we are in many other countries, including the US. How many government officials here in America could you actually convince to launch a campaign promoting free software? Not many, if any.
Err! (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:it never ceases to amaze me... (Score:3, Insightful)
How often in history does a private enterprise have this much power?
All too often, especially in the United States.
Re:it never ceases to amaze me... (Score:5, Insightful)
The government has no place doing this sort of promotion. Their job is to use whatever works the best. We have enough problems with ideology in this country - no sense adding more to the fire.
-Erwos
Re:Great, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Eventually theres so many penguins, the crowd accidently pushes one happless penguin into the water.
All the penguins shutup and stare at the volunteer. If he doesn't get eaten, all the penguins start diving into the water in a continuous flow.
We need countries like Venezuala to openly use FOSS so that other countries can gather courage and join them.
I just hope that this isn't another maneuver to get better pricing.
Re:Great, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
At the beginning of the Fox Administration in Mexico, they announced a big program to bring computers to more public schools, libraries and rural areas. The chosen software? Microsoft's. This was a stabb in the back for the software industry in our country: so instead of spending millions of dollars in promoting the in-house developement of software (which would, eventually, help the growth of ALL kind of software developement, not just educational programs or GUI localizations), which would have created more jobs in that sector, the government chose to give all that cash to a foreign company. The cash for all those MS licences goes to Bill's pockets, insted of going to the Mexican software and IT engineers, enterpreaneurs, and jobs derivated from those businesses.
And no, it's not a xenophobic, anti-American thing. It's a matter of a lost chance to help the Mexican economy, in an age where it's (again.. sigh) losing its place in the global map.
It depends which Castro's Cuba (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally I suspect Chavez says most of it for effect. He obviously enjoys pissing off the Yanquis. Once upon a time, when the UK had been largely isolated from European in-fighting, the English enjoyed pissing off the Continentals by mocking their political theories and their habits. It was a way of relieving the tension of living next to powerful neighbors who might turn nasty at any moment.
Unfortunately the US has a remarkable degree of paranoia about any country that turns even mildly pink in what it sees as its own backyard. The result has been gross overreaction in places like Chile, Nicaragua, Cuba and, most ludicrously of all, Grenada. It's not surprising that the poor people of the South can easily be made to see the US as the enemy. I hope that the FOSS movement can remain sufficiently politically neutral that it is seen as favoring no particular economic model, but that it will flourish in any economy where independent thought and individual cooperation are valued. The strong German contribution to FOSS, along with the input from the former USSR/Warsaw Pact bloc, suggests that this may well happen. In the meantime, let's not confuse a noisy politician with a country.
Re:Victory? (Score:4, Insightful)
Having said that, it's not inconceivable they're trying to get bargaining power with Microsoft, but I find it more likely that they really are committed to saving money and sticking two fingers up to the US (which hates them).
Re:I dont think that Venezeula is making choices h (Score:3, Insightful)
They say the first casualty of war is the Truth. This applies when talking of software FUD wars as well as politics...
Re:A positive development ...? (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, how much do you know about Cuba? It is a country standing on its own with US's embargo continuing over years, not to mention CIA's attempts to destabilize it. Everyone thought they would collapse after the USSR, but they survive. Maybe they do something right? Their health care system, infant mortality rate and many other markers for "good life" are better than USA :-).
Re:Victory? (Score:4, Insightful)
Sorry bud, you've been listening to the CIA propaganda a little too much. Chavez defeated an incumbent in a democratically held election in a landslide victory.
It doesn't get more democratic than that. The real wannabe dictator is the President-select publicly endorsed by Dubbya who only managed to seize and hold to power for less than twenty four hours.
It might not be an economic powerhouse (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Victory? (Score:4, Insightful)
don't forget that he defeated the right wing in a failed atempt of a coup and was kept in power after winning a recall poll. he has twice the legitimacy as your warrior president, george junior.
plus, a "decree" is not just a tool for dictators. other full fledged democracies have the so called "decree". assume the word to be little more than a regulation signed by the president of a democratic nation exerting the powers granted to him/her by the constitution. nothing that a rule from congress or from the supreme court can't overturn.
Re:to play devil's advocate... (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you even know what you're talking about? The Venezuelan private television channels all participated in the Coup. Chavez's reaction wasn't ugly if you consider what they did in the first place.
Re:A positive development ...? (Score:1, Insightful)
If you bother to get off your ass and actually read up on the country and Chavez you would see everything he has enacted has done nothing but help the people of the country, and believes in democracy more then the opposition do.
He won first election by the largest percentage of voters in 40 years.
On being elected he turned a portion of his presidential palace into a school for street kids. Created widespread immunization and food distribution programs for children, mostly nonexistent under previous Venezuelan presidencies.
Wealthy businesses, who had not been required to pay taxes previously, are now required to do so.
Set up referendums for changing laws for the better of his people. Set up limits on how long a president can run (by referendum). Set up a question time on national Television where anyone can ring in and hask him a question.
Won re-election by even more votes then before. Survived a military coup which was orcastrated by the Rich in the country (See the documentry "The revolution will not be televised" as well as "Llaguno Bridge. Clues of a massacre")
He also survived a recall referendum with independant bodies saying the voting was 'completly fair' (compare that to 2004 US election where the independant body said it was 'mostly fair').
Stopped another coup attempt on him in 2004.
Now compare that with the people everyone is spouting off believe in democracy. You want to see how lovely the opposition is then go do some research on the laws they enacted directly after coup (Or see The revolution will not be televised for visual testimony).
Its quite obvious that the country was being raped by the rich elite while a large amount of the population lived in poverty.
Chavez knows more about democracy and how to run one then Bush ever will. It sickens me to see people actually believe the crap about Castro they are spouting.
Re:A positive development ...? (Score:5, Insightful)
The law does not bust down hard on any dissent. Neither does it will shut down stations for content contrary to the security of the nation. What the law restricts is the broadcasts of mild language, sex or violent images from 7:00 am to 11:00 on open T.V. I don't condone this law, but it's not fair to say that it will end with dissidence in Venezuela.
There's more about the Bolivarian revolution than "being more like Cuba" and what the U.S. media tells. But when this gets the way of the interest of the wealthier american corporate interests, some nasty things happen, and depending of who owns the media, you will see only one side of the story.
Re:A positive development ...? (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's try a thought experiment. Let us say that two years ago, the Democratic party leadership, with the help of the wealthiest people in the country, and with foreign endorsement and aid from, say, FRANCE, overran the White House, held Bush prisoner, and declared the 2000 election invalid on ideological grounds. And they failed to overturn the government.
Then, later, those Democrats faked up a recall election, which failed.
HOW FAST WOULD BUSH HAVE BEEN BUSTING DOWN HARD ON ANY DAMNED BODY HE WANTED TO? How many people in Gitmo getting razors up their backsides? How many new "security" measures cracking down on the First Amendment? How many dead in the street as he sent in the freakin' Marines? If past behavior is any guide, he'd have laughed as people were mowed down in the street.
Chavez has been far, far more lenient on traitors than Bush ever, EVER would be.
Re:A positive development ...? (Score:1, Insightful)
Go right ahead, you don't even need to build a raft, unlike the millions of Cubans who would like to go the over way.
A few questions.. (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean, if what you say is true and it is the US that is the totalitarian dictatorship, shouldn't the people requesting political asylum be traveling in the other direction?
Also, why is it that the people who tell me Cuba is such an enlightened society with low infant mortality and high literacy have NEVER, EVER actually LIVED in Cuba?
This is what passes for "Insightful" on
Re:I dont think that Venezeula is making choices h (Score:5, Insightful)
I... just don't understand how the Right's brains work. You just carry your own reality around with you in a self-contained bubble? You literally do not hear anything which contradicts your version of the universe?
Re:Decrees are generally bad things (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead they shove shit down your throw with:
- Monopolies
- Laws(Decrees and Laws are really the same thing)
- Financial pressure
- Political pressure
If you actually want to put FOSS in place in most governments there almost has to be a "decree" of some kind. Otherwise an army of software salesmen from places like Microsoft are going to work over, pressure or bribe the people making the purchasing decision to buy their crap. After all civil servents aren't wasting their money they are wasting tax dollars and they could care less if they pass on the low cost option and waste money on Microsoft's software especially if they are being bribed. FOSS doesn't have the army of salesmen which are the free markets "decree" enforcers.
Assuming you are American, and live in a country that is the home of the Patriot Act, the DMCA, software patents, monopolies and cartels(Microsoft, RIAA, MPAA, etc), a government that is almost completely owned by lobbyists, corporations and special interest money, that is arresting and holding people without due process, is promoting the use of torture around the world, routinely toppling sovereign governments and replacing them with two bit dictators, you don't really have a leg to stand on to preach to the rest of the world about "democratic societies". The U.S. only vaguely knows what they are and its increasingly not what you have in the U.S.
Fact is places like China and Cuba have a lot more in common with the U.S. than they differ. The tools for controlling people are just somewhat more subtle, though they seem to be getting less subtle with each passing year under the new regime. And of course most American companies seem to be quite fond having all their work done in China by workforce under repression so increasingly if you it comes down to be "free" in America and unemployed or "repressed" in China and have a job though under generally bad conditions.
In China or Cuba they throw you in jail just for being a dissident. In America if you don't go along with the system you run a substantial risk of unemployment, homelessness, death on the streets, or being thrown in prison via things like the "War on Drugs" or by the IRS.
I point out the IRS because it abuse of tax records was a favorite tool of Nixon's to attack his political opponents and someone attempted to renable abusing tax records for political purposes in the recent intelligence reform bill. It was caught only at the very last second when someone actually speed read the bill before it was passed. Actually reading legislation before its passed is increasingly rare in the Congress which is also undemocratic. The new regime often writes it behind closed doors and then tries to rush it through before anyone can read it, let alone understand it.
Also, in case you haven't looked lately the U.S. has one of the highest per capita prison populations of any country in the world.
Re:I dont think that Venezeula is making choices h (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Great, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
I just hope that this isn't another maneuver to get better pricing.
I just hope they don't get eaten by a seal.
--
Ryan