Real Pays For Legal MP3 Playback On Linux 618
kforeman (aka Kevin Foreman, GM of Helix RealNetworks, Inc.) writes "As part of the free RealPlayer 10 for Linux, Real has paid Thomson for a legal MP3 playback license and then includes it at no cost as part of the newly released RealPlayer 10. As I speak to people, many are under the false impression that MP3 playback patent and royalty rights are free, since there are open source implementations of MP3 playback available. Not true. Nonetheless, we are glad to do our part of making the Linux desktop a first class citizen by legally providing MP3 playback to users via our new RealPlayer."
Re:huh? (Score:3, Informative)
No, mp3 has always been patent encumbered.
Don't need a license for personal use anyway (Score:5, Informative)
Also, does anyone know were the patent on decoding is so we can check whether it is valid (in the USA--it is obviously invalid in the free (i.e.: non-US) world)?
And, if you don't want to be sued, use a free and better lossy format (e.g.: Ogg Vorbis for music or Ogg Speex for speech).
Re:buffered stuff.. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:How many times do I have to license it? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Distributions? (Score:2, Informative)
Helix DNA Technology Binary Research Use License
REDISTRIBUTION NOT PERMITTED
Rad Complete license [helixcommunity.org].
Depends on where you are from (Score:4, Informative)
Yours sincerely,
shurdeek
Re:Distributions? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:buffered stuff.. (Score:5, Informative)
Only if you are in the USA and are encoding/decoding MP3s for certain commercial purposes (as Thomson explicitly let you do it for personal use) does this patent apply to you.
Even then, you are highly unlikely to be sued by Thomson and can claim ignorance of their stupid (and possibly invalid) patent claims.
Re:no surprise (Score:4, Informative)
That's not specific to mp3 at all, that's more like a patent on constant bit rate encoding (if you use an entropic encoder inside the loop). The mp3 patent holders initially couldn't even believe themselves [com.com] that ogg did not infringe on any of their (broad) patents.
Re:on Linux? (Score:3, Informative)
In many years of exposure to Real Player under Linux, I've never seen a single ad from it. Apparently, it's been a problem on Windows, but it never has been under Linux. Indeed, Real Player 10 seems to be quite a reasonable product on Linux. No more proprietary GUI, it now just looks like any other application, it loads quickly, and runs well. Looks like the Helix community stuff might actually be paying dividends. Now if only they'd open up the Real codecs...
That said, nothing has really changed. There is still no legal way for distributions to include open source MP3 playback. It's not a major issue for me, since all of my music is in Ogg Vorbis and/or FLAC format, but it's annoying when I want to download a sampler from a band's website and have to go and grab a separate player before I can hear it.
Re:no surprise (Score:3, Informative)
Someone could invent this from their armchair and it is just a mathematical formula.
You do not patent a physical item, you patent the devices for creating the physical item. Do you think you ship a new washing machine down to the patent office to patent it? No, you submit the technical drawings and a description of the processes used to create the machine, and how the machine operates. Hence processes are what patents are all about. You don't ever have to even create the physical item to patent it, just have the idea. Your arguments on patent law are about as valid as a blind person's critique of a painting.
http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/mp3-licensing-faq.html (Score:5, Informative)
II.a) Software DECODERS
*****
Q. I wish to distribute a FREE MPEG Layer-3 software decoder on my WEB-site. Do I have to pay royalties?
A. For the FREE distribution of decoders we do not charge a royalty. At the Fraunhofer IIS and OPTICOM web-sites you can find the players we have developed and which may be downloaded for FREE also. Fraunhofer IIS and OPTICOM do not give any technical support for the free players. Emails complaining about bugs in free software will not be answered!
More in general, as long as desktop software decoders are distributed free-of-charge for personal use, no license fee is expected. However, in all cases we expect that MPEG Layer-3 products reference the licensors, like "MPEG Layer-3 audio compression technology licensed by Fraunhofer IIS and THOMSON multimedia".
*****
Q. And what if I sell the software decoder?
A. In this case, the royalty per decoder is US $ 1,00. We just remark that we have not asserted our patents against decoders of which less than 10 000 units have been sold.
Re:How many times do I have to license it? (Score:3, Informative)
You haven't paid for the licence. You've paid someone else to pay for the licence on your behalf. This is an important distinction, because your vendor probably got a much better deal for mass-producing thousands of copies than you could possibly get for your single licence.
You don't pay to use the MP3 decoding, you pay to have MP3 decoding in your product. Therefore everyone who puts MP3 decoding in their product must pay.
Re:How many times do I have to license it? (Score:4, Informative)
Following the great history of GNU naming, LAME originally stood for LAME Ain't an Mp3 Encoder. LAME started life as a GPL'd patch against the dist10 ISO demonstration source, and thus was incapable of producing an mp3 stream or even being compiled by itself. But in May 2000, the last remnants of the ISO source code were replaced, and now LAME is the source code for a fully LGPL'd MP3 encoder, with speed and quality to rival all commercial competitors.
It also helps... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Real (Score:2, Informative)
Re:http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/mp3-licensing-faq.html (Score:3, Informative)
Try to find any royalty-free arrangement here:
http://www.mp3licensing.com/help/developer.html [mp3licensing.com]
I couldn't find any.
Re:MP3 Playback IS Free... (Score:3, Informative)
Thomson have licensed the MP3 codec universally to software developers providing it's not for profit. Though, strictly speaking, a patent only covers the commercial exploitability of a product or concept, so that kind gesture is a little empty.
Remember that guy who patented the "means of exercising a cat" using a laser pointer? Does that mean you can't tease a cat in your home? No. You can do that all you like. What you can't do is charge money for the service of exercising cats using laser pointers.
As an aside, the argument "people wouldn't pay for you to play with their cat" doesn't apply with MP3 players. That said, no-one in their right mind would pay for a software MP3 player...
Re:Don't need a license for personal use anyway (Score:1, Informative)
mp3's encoded with a decent encoder and done correctly sound absolutely FANTASTIC and undetectable between the origional CD at a 160kbps setting.
most mp3's out there flat out suck, the audio is not normalized, the encoder is not set up correctly but used with "default serttings" and generally not taken care of.
I have also heard 128kbps mp3's that were damn hard to tell the difference between it and the origional CD until you listened to a synched playback in headphones. sum stereo infomation from mp3 into right ear, summed stereo audio from WAV file in left ear.
and then it took most of us several times to hear the small points where there were artifacts.
mp3's not sounding good is one of those myths that audiophiles love to throw around, like the directional speaker wire, high end speaker wire sounds better, and other utter nonsense that audiophiles like to spread that those that actually understand audio, speakers and electronic engineering know better.
(Yes kids, that $0.39 a foot lamp cord will sound just as good at the $12.00 a foot audiophile nitrogen impregnated 99% pure and no oxygen audiophile wire. Just like how you can easily generate an mp3 that soulds no different from a audio CD.)
you may not have enough understanding to make an mp3 that does not have chirp,chirp swoosh.... but lots of us that actually take the time to find a decent mp3 encoder and learn to use it make them daily, and serve up lots of crow to audiophiles with them.
Re:How many times do I have to license it? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:buffered stuff.. (Score:4, Informative)
I suppose it appeals to those who cut their teeth on Winamp, and so are used to its ideosyncracies. However, some of the rest of us would like something that is less flashy and more functional.
Re:buffered stuff.. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Real (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Distributions? (Score:3, Informative)
Yes [realnetworks.com], we [realnetworks.com] are [realnetworks.com].
Rob Lanphier
Development Support Manager
RealNetworks
Re:GtkMediaPlayer widget, Helix API? (Score:2, Informative)
Documentation on using the gtk helix widget [helixcommunity.org]
Info on our awesome mp3 decoder [helixcommunity.org]
mp3 codec source (fixed and floating point) [helixcommunity.org]
For the real scoop on licensing, contact the public mailing list open-licensing@helixcommunity.org. The parent post is largely incorrect.
Re:Sign on the road (Score:2, Informative)
Re:RPM Mime type (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Don't need a license for personal use anyway (Score:1, Informative)
I love Nokia. I have no use for a separate music player device.