Will New Apps Keep TiVo Afloat? 240
Dave Zatz writes "Tivo, struggling to keep customers and inch towards profitability as execs step down,
has continued to shift focus from pure PVR functionality towards digital convergence. Tivo's recently
released Home Media Engine SDK extends Tivo's capabilities as developers churn early Java apps out, including
the eBay-developed BuyItNow
and the independent Airport Express
AirTunes remote control. The recently released Tivo
To Go allows PC users to transfer shows to their computers for viewing, editing,
and burning shows. Mac users aren't entirely forgotten - a hidden feature in the
OSX Tivo Desktop 1.9 provides AAC
music playback through the television."
Tivo2Go is slow on all fronts... (Score:4, Insightful)
I finally got my Tivo2Go system upgrade about two weeks ago (it took quite a while to come down to my unit) and I tried it out. I was absolutely dumbfounded at how slow the video file transferred over.
I intended on copying over the entire Tivo contents and then coverting them w/Dr. Divx (quite the task on my slower 2x400 Celeron machine) and then watching them on my Archos. Well, when I saw how slow the damn thing copied in the first place I figured why not just keep using the "Save to VCR" function as I have been doing?
What I would like to see is a "Save to VCR" function that will let me queue up multiple shows and save them all in one shot rather than one at a time. I could set the Archos up and let it record for a couple hours over night. Wake up and be done.
Tivo2Go sounded wonderful until I realized it was in a format that was worthless to go straight to a portable media device, it was slow as hell to bring over from the unit, and then it was slow as hell to convert with Dr. Divx.
Blah. Just do as I asked and change the "Save to VCR" function for me
Too Late (Score:2, Insightful)
One thing is nice to see (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not one who watches much TV, therefor a Tivo was never big on my shopping list, but I have to say its refreshing to see a company try to improve their product rather than sue the compition.
Heres to you Tivo, and best of luck.
No, it won't help (Score:5, Insightful)
What else is there to do on this thing that developers are really going to tap into to get my mom, dad, sister and in-laws to buy a TiVo?
I've said this before, but I am dead serious: they need more porn. It's always driven technology and made money. The cable companies are cashing in. The hotel chains are cashing in. The industry is cashing in. Now, that won't mak my family buy it, per se, but people WILL buy it if they see more hooters and camel toe.
This move for a "developers kit" it desperate becaue they can't think of anything else. They need a CEO like Jobs, because a visionary who can execute is the only way this company will be saved.
I'd say, apps are TiVo's major (only?) hope (Score:5, Insightful)
Fortunately, they are based on a decent OS and, by opening the platform up to the developers, can appeal directly to users.
It will take a long while for cable-companies to offer anything comparable on their proprietary boxes.
Not if users don't have control, no. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Tivo To Go brings more harm? (Score:4, Insightful)
They can still place them there.
When I watch TV, I mute ads, or flip around. This does not stop the ad company from placing the ad. After all, they are not paying ME to see it, they are paying the TV show for placing it. The cost is the same whether I watch it or not.
Heck, I routinely tape (VHS) shows so I can fast-foreward through ads. Or when two shows are on in the same time slot. As far as I am concerned, there IS NO prime time. I tape when it is aired, and watch when I want to, not when some over-paid executive decides I should.
This is known as enpowernment.
All the **AA's hate this of course.....
Bad choice of words? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not sure Digital Convergence [digitalconvergence.com] is the model Tivo should follow. Although I suppose it'll be alright, eventually, now that their primary product [digitalconvergence.com] has entered the realm of open-source tinkering [lib.la.us].
Oh, you mean the failure to capitalize Digital Convergence wasn't an editorial accident? Oops.
Re:No, it won't help -- Apple Should Buy TiVo! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No, it won't help (Score:3, Insightful)
They were.
That was a good thing until everyone else got onto the bandwagon. Now TiVo's just one of many PVRs you can get.
In particular, loosing the cable network deal was a killer. Comcast keeps offering to basically give their boxes away and they come with PVRs now.
The difference here is that Comcast can afford to lose the PVR game. They need the boxes distributed anyway for cable (I know, not required, but for digital it is). Tivo, on the other hand, is trying to go the opposite way - comcast had boxes on hand, said "Hey, let's add PVR to them. I mean, they're out there anyway." Tivo doesn't have the advantage of having an established offering - they come to the table with only PVR functionality, and a box you don't have to have. Now they're adding apps. That's good. But it's a life support measuer only. How long until Comcast/DTV comes up with sandboxed apps? They'll do the smart thing - let TiVo tread the waters, make the mistakes, and learn from it, but unless TiVo has something unique to offer, it's a loosing battle.
Re:No, it won't help (Score:2, Insightful)
Yet your signature is: Great Porn DVDs [excaliburfilms.com]
You seem to have some sort of abnormal love for porn on your TV. I have no problems w/porn and have a sizeable collection myself but I certainly don't think that Tivo could cash in on the industry...
Re:Tivo To Go brings more harm? (Score:5, Insightful)
That may be true, but the bottom line is that companies pay TV networks to advertise there because you and millions of people like you watch the shows, and will therefore watch the advertisements. If everyone is skipping over the ads, then companies are not getting the visibility they were going for when they bought that ad, and continuing to buy ads in television media is no longer worthwhile.
As more and more people skip over ads, demand for ad space will go down, price will follow, and so will the total revenue of these networks, which operate almost entirely from revenue generated by advertisements. This is why DVR technology sucks so bad for television stations. Widespread use of DVR technology could potentially cut off their primary source of revenue, and unless people are willing to pay far more for television than they do already, TV stations are at a loss as to how to replace that revenue.
That being said, I watch shows exclusively from my DVR now. Even if I'm sitting there with nothing to do while the show is on, I'll record it and watch some other pre-recorded show, then watch the first show later, when I can skip over the ads, so I guess I'm part of the problem.
Re:Tivo To Go brings more harm? (Score:5, Insightful)
And even before TTG was released, people figured out ways to hack the TiVo and download the video. So now you have the feature available to 100% of users, and maybe 1% will abuse it. Before, the feature was available to 0% of users, and STILL 1% abused it. Which scenario is better for TiVo?
digital convergence? (Score:1, Insightful)
geez, I doubt the Cue Cat is going to inch them towards profitability.
Re:Tivo To Go brings more harm? (Score:2, Insightful)
IPTV (Score:3, Insightful)
Now it's probably too late for this. All the notable players are beginning to lock themselves into platforms for IPTV, and they're all choosing Microsoft's product. Yeah. Good luck getting THAT to integrate with a Tivo once it gets up and running.
Re:To Save TiVo (Score:2, Insightful)
You haven't use a Tivo have you? While the UI is wonderfully simple and easy to understand for just about anyone, I really don't find it "snappy" or responsive by any stretch of the imagination (nevermind since their most recent update for Tivo2Go).
I certainly wouldn't want to be using X on a machine w/such speed limitations. Welcome to 1992?
Re:ugh, Common sense (Score:1, Insightful)
Then they couldn't charge $50 for single season DVDs. [amazon.com]
And this is why this will never happen.
I just want to record shows. I don't want ads! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Tivo2Go is slow on all fronts... (Score:2, Insightful)
Not only that, but most Tivo hard drives are 40 gig or 80 gigs. What in the world made you think you could transfer (nearly) the entire contents of that hard drive over a network fast?
Apple Shouldn't Buy TiVo! (Score:5, Insightful)
Name recognition? If anything, Apple's is even better.
Profits? TiVo is losing money.
User interface? Apple doesn't really need TiVo's help in user interface design, and the once-innovative TiVo interface is starting to seem a bit clunky next to things like iTunes. Apple would be better advised to come up with their own from scratch.
Re:No, it won't help (Score:3, Insightful)
I think going with the cable companies would have been slow strangulation for TiVo. The cable companies are interested in low-end commodity DVRs; reportedly, the "deal" Comcast offered TiVo was less than a buck per month per DVR.
TiVo's best shot is the CableCard 2.0 standard due next year. This will let TiVo offer a DVR that will replace the cable box altogether, saving customers rental fees (which will make TiVo's fees more palatable). Let the CableCard supply the low-end boxes for the customers who just want to pause live TV and the like. TiVo should go after the high end of the market.
All TiVo really needs to do is hold on until the CableCard standard is final. Fortunately, the company isn't really hurting for money, and these initiatives and the new TiVo equipped DVD recorders should help.
Re:ugh, Common sense (Score:3, Insightful)
Two people have ever asked me to give them a copy of a show that I had recorded on TiVo. In both cases, they missed the show for some reason. I'm not set up to copy the shows off, so they were both out of luck.
Another friend set my TiVo to record their shows for them, in case they missed it at home. They can just come over at their leasure, and watch it here.
Piracy? Not really, everything's been on broadcast TV. I'm not removing the commercials, and really it makes for one extra viewer of those commercials.
If I could send the shows over to them easier, then that would still increase the viewer base of both the show and commercials.
Any argument against TiVo is the same crap that went on with the invention of the VCR. Oohh ya, that was the end of technology, wasn't it?
I don't watch the commercials on my TiVo. Fast forward, skip, or more commonly ignore them. Advertisments are a nice time to go get a drink, or something. Of course, I do find that it's interesting that I watch 1 hour shows in just about 30 minutes from most stations. It's almost to the point of having a little bit of television mixed in with all the advertisments.
Re:Tivo To Go brings more harm? (Score:5, Insightful)
As more and more people skip over ads, demand for ad space will go down, price will follow, and so will the total revenue of these networks, which operate almost entirely from revenue generated by advertisements. This is why DVR technology sucks so bad for television stations. Widespread use of DVR technology could potentially cut off their primary source of revenue, and unless people are willing to pay far more for television than they do already, TV stations are at a loss as to how to replace that revenue.
That being said, I watch shows exclusively from my DVR now. Even if I'm sitting there with nothing to do while the show is on, I'll record it and watch some other pre-recorded show, then watch the first show later, when I can skip over the ads, so I guess I'm part of the problem.
Dead on. I believe Darwin called this evolution. TV Networks are becoming obsolete and they are fighting tooth and nail to survive. If they do not find a way to make money, (i.e. outlaw PVRs, pass laws against skipping commercials, find alternate revenue stream, etc.) they will die. It is certainly a bad thing for networks, but is it a bad thing for shows or for the viewer? Right now networks are a middle man with too much control - get rid of them and both the TV producers and viewers will be happy. Sell TV directly to consumer. A few decades back HBO and the like figured out a way to bypass advertizing and networks to sell (almost) directly to consumer - you pay for the channel, they are not hurt a bit by PVRs. Now someone needs to start selling content directly to PVRs over network - bypass cable company, bypass networks, etc. Sell shows, not channels.... here I go off on a rabling rant again....been saying this for at least 5 years, since I got my first Tivo...
-Em
Cable companies WERE TiVo's intended customers! (Score:2, Insightful)
You are mistaken. There was a time when TiVo thought that cable companies were TiVo's optimal customers. Had TiVo made more deals like the DirecTV/TiVo deal, many more customers who wanted a particular cable/satellite offering but were PVR-platform-agnostic would have been introduced to TiVo.
TiVo's original marketing plan was to build something that would become the standard for set-top boxes that cable/satellite companies provide their customers.
However, early "buzz" about the very open Series 1 turned TiVo into the darling of techies and tinkerers. Only later did TiVo customers discover that the Series 1 openness was not part of the original business plan, but was merely the convergence of not-yet-mature DRM technology and very mature tinkerers.
This left TiVo with a problem. Its natural and intended market -- cable/satellite companies -- became afraid of TiVo as a device that would steal potential corporate revenues. So TiVo felt greater pressure to make cable/satellite-friendly marketing and feature decisions. Yet it could not make those decisions without destroying its "buzz" among the tech-folks who were its earliest and most vocal supporters.
In summary, TiVo is the victim of a schizophrenic and not-well-considered business plan.
Where TiVo has missed the boat is HD (Score:2, Insightful)
Example: I tell it I want anything with "Star Trek" in the subject, and I DON'T get ST episodes that I've seen 100 times, but I do get any show ABOUT Trek that airs. No Cable, Media Center, or Myth PVR can do anything like this, and this is TiVo's strength in a nutshell. Likewise, Season Passes that are smart enough to only get new episodes, or ones that it knows it hasn't gotten before.
Sadly, I agree with the posters here that TiVo is doomed. Why? Terrible (nonexistent) integration with high quality/HD signal and inputs! Sure, there's an HD DirecTiVo for $1000, but I don't use satellite, even if I was willing to spend that much. And the only connection options for the thing are Coax, composite, and S-video. I can understand no DVI, but where the hell are the component inputs?
My beloved TiVo is now the weak link in my otherwise all-digital HDTV stream. With no sign of improvement in sight.
They're doomed (Score:4, Insightful)
Not the case anymore. Now Tivo is about "compromise" and "innovation" and putting ads back into their customers shows and supporting Macrovision blocking of pay-per-view shows etc.
The thing they don't seem to grasp is that their customer base are made up of those who were not prepared to "compromise". These are people who said "No, I'm not prepared to compromise on this. I will not accept shit in my cornflakes. I don't care if there's less shit and it's harder to taste, I'm not giving you my money unless my cornflakes are shit-free"
Advice to Tivo: Stop looking at ways to "innovate" and get back to "fixing your customers problem"
Re:Tivo To Go brings more harm? (Score:2, Insightful)
It only takes one person to break the DRM, and the file will instantly become available to everone.
The P2P networks mean that the work of one person (to remove the DRM protections) can be leveraged by millions with very little incremental effort.
That is why all DRM protections are ultimately useless - as long as one person can crack it, then everyone can crack it.
Re:They're doomed (Score:3, Insightful)
What i get most from my tivo is the ability to painlessly watch whatever shows I want, whenever I want. I'd enjoy my Tivo even if there were no ffd-ing through commercials. There's no tapes, and no discs, just the menu of available shows. I think Tivo's moves to add features are excatly what the platform needs. Now that the cablecos are providing DVRs to their customers, tivo has to jump even farther out with usability and features. I think alot of people assume they have to be like MS to be successfull. I think they can be quite successfull like Apple.
The media companies are too powerful for such a small company to go against, so they need to steer clear of the legal minefield that is genuine "fair use". If they try to fight that battle they will surely be sued out of business. The point of Tivo Inc, isn't to stick it to the man, but to make a buck. Let mythtv and eff battle the media giants.
If Tivo can strike deals with "content" producers like HBO, dreamworks or pixar, they could split millions of middleman fees that would normally go to manufacturers, distributors and retailers. If they do get such a deal, I can see their revenue, and stock value skyrocket.