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Television Media

TiVo vs Microsoft vs HDTV Cable 293

Posted by CmdrTaco from the introducing-the-challangers dept.
Thomas Hawk writes "Technology writer Ed Bott is out today with a great comparison piece where he compares the various feature sets of his TiVo, his Microsoft Media Center PC and his current HDTV cable DVR. It seems like all three have various nice features but all three also have negatives that you have to suffer through. A great read and strong comparison piece for anyone interested in DVR technology. Would love to see Ed or someone else expand on this piece and incorporate the current HDTV DirecTV TiVo, Comcast's Foundation box being rolled out in a pilot program in Washington State and MythTV."
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TiVo vs Microsoft vs HDTV Cable More

TiVo vs Microsoft vs HDTV Cable

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  • I still prefer to pay TiVo. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Thursday March 03, 2005 @02:37PM (#11836284)
    Smart offers. If you bail out of watching a recorded show within a few minutes of the end, TiVo asks if you want to delete the recording to free up hard drive space. That's smart; it's assuming that since you're near the end, you've probably watched all you intend to watch. (If you cancel playback in the middle or beginning, though, TiVo doesn't bother you with that offer; it assumes you're not finished with the show yet.)

    I don't know if they were talking negatively about the lack of an option to delete if you bail out in the middle of playback or not but, honestly, it's not difficult to delete any recording from the main menu... For most of the shows I watch I have them setup to delete when space is needed. The shows that I absolutely MUST watch get watched or marked later with "do not delete until I say".

    I would actually find it relatively annoying if I jumped out of playback in the middle of a show and it asked if I wanted to delete. That's an unnecessary step that I'd have to take.

    That's my opinion though, YMMV, perhaps a more detailed configuration of these settings would help TiVo? "Do you want to be prompted to delete if aborting playback before the end?" (something less wordy but you get the idea).

    Bottom line? Feature for feature, Windows XP Media Center Edition matches TiVo and even exceeds it in some measures.

    Bottom line? You need to have a dedicated machine for the MCE and a TV in/out card plus you need something that's half-decent in speed. TiVo just works and it was cheap (for me). You also need to support Microsoft and personally, as much as I am not terribly happy w/TiVo's recent decisions, I'd prefer to pay them than MSFT.

    • Re:I still prefer to pay TiVo. (Score:4, Informative)

      by _Sharp'r_ ( 649297 ) <sharper@@@booksunderreview...com> on Thursday March 03, 2005 @02:45PM (#11836367) Homepage Journal
      I'm surprised that with a pretty significant market share, the reviewer didn't bother to mention the offerings from DishNetwork.

      Generally, the main differences between the Dishnetwork 921/942 HD DVRs and the HD Tivo models is that the Tivo has better auto-recording features for picking stuff you want to set a timer for, while the Dish DVRs are much, much faster to use in terms of the program guide, etc...

      What it really comes down to for most people is the exact HD content they can get from cable/Direc/Dish, etc... All the features in the world are useless without something to watch in HD.

      I'm to the point where I rarely even look at non-HD channels in the channel guide, let alone want to watch them. On a 100" screen, it's just too painful to watch SD most of the time.
      • "Generally, the main differences between the Dishnetwork 921/942 HD DVRs and the HD Tivo models is that the Tivo has better auto-recording features for picking stuff you want to set a timer for, while the Dish DVRs are much, much faster to use in terms of the program guide, etc..."

        Actually the difference is that Dish Network is a content provider and TiVo isn't. Content providers offer DVRs primarily to have control over your recordings. TiVo would love to allow you to record pay-per-view events and wat

      • Re:I still prefer to pay TiVo. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Gondola ( 189182 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @03:02PM (#11836565)
        "I'm to the point where I rarely even look at non-HD channels in the channel guide, let alone want to watch them. On a 100" screen, it's just too painful to watch SD most of the time."

        I can sympathize heartily with this sentiment. I have a 65" HDTV and SD format is just "tolerable", especially with the horrible quality of some of the SD shows on TWC cable. (Sci Fi channel is ugly, and the new Battlestar Galactica is the only show I record in SD.)

        I loved my TiVo, but it doesn't do HDTV. Hello, Scientific Atlanta 8000HD (Time Warner cable). It's a poor alternative to the TiVo interface, but it does HD. It's worth suffering through the poor interface for that, and it does HD recordings very well usually. I've already had to replace it once because of a failed hard drive (free, same-day replacement via TWC buttcrack thanks to someone else's cancellation). Plus it has two tuners, which has come in handy at times.

        If an HD TiVo (standalone, not satellite) came out (yes I'm aware there was a demo unit, but no official announcement), I would look at it very hard before buying, however. The cost would be high for those 1st gen boxes.
      • If you are going to complain about lack of options, then there's also the hacked X-Box option and the Mac mini option.

        Personally, I briefly considered going with a hacked X-Box Media Center, and settled on the mini, which (for me) has huge advantages over both Tivo and the MPC.

        Equipment:
        Mac mini 1.42 w/802.11g and Bluetooth
        1GB after-market RAM
        EyeTV 500
        Apple Wireless Keyboard
        Kensington Wireless Mouse
        Keyspan IR Remote
        DVI cable
        M-Audio USB-TOSLINK digital sound pass-through

        Total cost: about $1500

        Results: DV
        • Ah, yes, I note the Keyspan IR Remote. The problem with this solution is that it sometimes misses a channel change. That is, it thinks it has changed the channel but it hasn't. The DVR has no way to know this has happened, so the wrong show gets recorded. Right? This is the main reason I go with an integrated solution. IN my case, I love TiVo's features, so the DirectTivo units are perfect. They never miss a show, and they are good enough in the UI to where I only curse at it once or twice per day.

    • Two years ago I wrote a review [davehitt.com] comparing my Tivo to the Time Warner's Scientific Atlanta DVR. After three weeks I told TW to remove it immediately. I was amazed that anyone could fit that much suck into such a small box.

      Looks like things haven't changed much since then.

      • Looks like things haven't changed much since then.

        I didn't RTFA, but I can say that if you're talking about the Explorer, I believe, 8100 boxes, they have changed. There's been quite a few firmware updates in recent years that have really made them better. Don't get me wrong, if I hadn't been on a free 4 month beta, I would have gotten rid of mine within the first day or two.

        Pretty much most, if not all of the problems with scheduling and stability have gone away. Actually, stability hasn't been an

  • An idea... (Score:5, Informative)

    by NEOtaku17 ( 679902 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @02:38PM (#11836298) Homepage

    Myth TV [mythtv.org] anyone?

    • I use the Knoppix MythTV distro [mysettopbox.tv].
      • This is great. Except there is no recommendation for what graphics card to use in conjunction with your TV tuner.

        WHAT PC graphics nowadays doesn't overheat in a tight beige box if left on 24x7?

        • Re:I use KnoppMyth (Score:2, Informative)

          by cesman ( 74566 )
          Well if you search the forum, you'll see that I recommend an nvidia geforce 440 or above. I've used one in each of my boxens without issue for well over a year.

          Regards,

          cesman
    • Slightly OT, but that 0.17 release is really chapping my ass. I've had the backend crash repeatedly over the past several days; a few hours of live TV and it just quits. Ditto with FF/rewind in recording playback - it skips like a motherfucker and then freezes waiting for the file stream to catch up (and usually gives up after five seconds or so).
      • I'm experiencing quite the opposite, although I think IVTV are the ones to pat on the back. Since my last update/dist-upgrade which brough new versions of Myth and IVTV I've been solid as a rock. Previous versions didn't play well with the fairly new tuner on my PVR-250.
      • If you're using a software tuner consider getting a WinTV 250. My Mythtv install never ran well before getting one, and now it's solid as a rock.
        • Nah, it's a PVR 250, and 0.16 ran like a champ. Dunno if it's an IVTV problem (I'm on the latest stable now) or a Myth problem, but I'm gradually concluding the latter.
    • If I can't record HD broadcasts with it, then it's worthless IMO. Unfortunately there is no card that will allow me to record HD signals from a cable or satellite box. This means, I have to get the HD DVR box that my cable company provides.

      • Re:An idea... (Score:3, Informative)

        by wizbit ( 122290 )
        Not necessarily. Myth 0.17 allows the firewire-enabled cable boxes with HD channels to be controlled from the PC (so it can change the channel when you do a channel-up/channel-down or start recording). The video can theoretically go both ways over that firewire connection too, but the way I understand it you'd use an S-Video or composite-out cable to your PVR (and back to the TV) to see the on-screen display on your TV and just use the FW link to change channels automatically.

        Now they could still encrypt t

        • Re:An idea... (Score:3, Informative)

          by wizbit ( 122290 )
          I'm sorry, apparently I'm on crack today. You don't capture via S-video/Composite because the signal's HD, so that's no help. Video will definitely come down the FW pipe, though; that may be how the devs are doing it. Fun for another day, I suppose...
      • Unfortunately there is no card that will allow me to record HD signals from a cable or satellite box.

        You mean the pcHDTV [pchdtv.com] card doesn't exist? Or do you mean that since they only offer full Linux support (Xine and all Linux drivers are included; they also provide unsupported Windows drivers; but they offer no Mac drivers as of right now) that it's still worthless to you?

        By the way, this card (that doesn't exist) does NOT support the Broadcast Flag saying "you can't record this."

        Disclaimer: I do not ev

    • It looks like a piece of software. Hardly comparable to a proper piece of hardware. First of all you'd need a TV card, and as it's a Linux program, your choice of TV cards is seriously slashed. You have to be very careful. Most Linux-compatible cards don't even say whether they work with Linux or not. Then you have to hope you've got a decent one that isn't choppy. Then you need a dedicated computer to run it, and to find a way to hook it up to the TV unless your household like to crowd around the computer

  • How Tivo can win... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by radiumhahn ( 631215 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @02:40PM (#11836312)
    I honestly believe that if Tivo wants to win they should allow shell access to the box and release development APIs so people can write their own Tivo applications. This will allow third party companies to create and support Tivo solutions and would bring popularity back to the device. If you hack a cable box you get a visit from the FBI. Microsoft will never be open. This is where Tivo can win. Hopefully they wake up and sieze the opportunity.

    • Re:How Tivo can win... (Score:5, Informative)

      by joecm ( 16636 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @02:46PM (#11836391) Homepage
      They are opening up the API to developers:

      http://www.tivo.com/4.3.hme.asp [tivo.com]

      • No they are not.

        HME applications run on home PCís or remote servers hosted by TiVo. At this time, HME applications cannot control any of the TiVo DVRís scheduling, recording, or video playback capabilities.

    • The average (99%) of users have no reason to need that. It is just icing on the cake for dorks who want to play with it. Granted it may be fun to do, but realistically, it can't be a big selling point.

      • That's spelled "geeks" (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @02:55PM (#11836480) Homepage Journal
        The 1% of us who are geeks, who create an app against the TiVo API, then share those apps with the other 99%. That's how software is developed, used, and makes platforms popular. Programming isn't for everyone, but programs are.
        • i didn't say it wouldn't be cool to have, it just wouldn't be a big marketing tool. yeah i'd prob play around with it if i did have a tivo and the ability to do so.
          • The API isn't the marketing tool. The apps 3rd parties develop with the API are the marketing tool. Which is why the open API is part of their marketing. Coolness of the API is the "metamarketing": marketing to geeks, whose apps market TiVo to the masses. Just like the PS2 polygon engine is metamarketing: players don't care, they care about the spiffy games, produced by programmers who care about the polygon engine.
    • I honestly believe that if Tivo wants to win they should allow shell access to the box and release development APIs so people can write their own Tivo applications

      HME Development Challenge [tivo.com]

      I'm not sure about shell access, I know it was relatively easy on the series 1 Tivos but I'm not sure about the series 2 models...

      ~jeff

    • Re:How Tivo can win... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by riptide_dot ( 759229 ) * on Thursday March 03, 2005 @02:59PM (#11836530)
      I honestly believe that if Tivo wants to win they should allow shell access to the box and release development APIs so people can write their own Tivo applications.

      I couldn't agree more. To add to that idea, one of the main reasons that I "hacked" my DirecTivo was because I needed to implement features in it that weren't at all available in the OOTB unit (specifically the network interface and a webserver).

      Here's a pretty specific example of why it was good for me to be able to modify this device: I have an entertainment center with doors on it that are completely opaque (meaning that if the doors are closed I can't get IR to the components behind them). So, instead of modifying the layout of my media center, I wrote a script that will allow me to change the channel on the Tivo (and actually do just about everything the remote can do) using a web interface on my computer (which has its IR receiver extended into the outside of the entertainment center). The computer's remote and accompanying software can then translate its commands into web scripts that are then in turn fed directly to my hacked Tivo via its webserver. There is no way I could have done any of this on an OOTB unit.

      I suppose I could have done this with a third-party IR repeater, but this was more fun, and more importantly, FREE.

      I suggest that Tivo, MS, and other DVR manufacturers could still market their "closed" versions for the masses of people who are willing to sacrifice feature sets for simplicity, but they should also offer more powerful units to those that want to purchase them, maybe provided that the "power" units have less of a support expectation...
    • I hook my iBook to the TV, then put on VLC. I then play a 700mb mp4 usually in DivX codec of the movie I want. Small enough to fit on a CD (as a avi), works well in terms of viewing. and, for a lot less then my iBook cost, a mini can do the same. Ad a Airport Extreme card and I could now streme the movie from the main machine in the study....All with more ease then the PC equivelant could ever achieve. Oh, and the sound feeds right into the home theater system. There is of course always the option of
    • The VAST majority of the public will never write their own Tivo application. I think it's safe to bet that most would never even download other applications. Tivo is going to die because cable companies and even DirecTv is building PVRs into their set-top box. Doesn't matter is Tivo is "better" if Comcast includes a PVR in their set top box.

  • "introducing-the-challangers dept."? (Score:5, Funny)

    by josh2112 ( 856384 ) <josh2112 AT gmail DOT com> on Thursday March 03, 2005 @02:44PM (#11836361)
    From the somabody-neads-to-chack-thair-spalling dept.

  • I prefer my ReplayTV to my old Media Center PCs (Score:5, Insightful)

    by iibbmm ( 723967 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @02:44PM (#11836364)
    I have owned two Media Center PCs, and currently use two 5504 ReplayTV's as my main PVR units.

    The Media Center PCs were of course the most powerfull units, but they had problems. It was a real pain to get everything working with my Toshiba HD set, as it was finicky about resolutions, and getting everything stable was a pain. I ended up selling both of my attempts at Media Pcs, and got a replay tv.

    The replay is PERFECT. Everyone in the house can use it without issue, and everything is fluid. There is no need to spend hour after hour customizing and tweaking software to get everything work with something else, no crashes, nothing out of the ordinary.

    The key components I miss from the HTPCs are the music playback, web browsing, and gaming on the big screen. However, I have a wireless media streamer that I use for music, and I prefer to play games in my office anyway, so the loss of functionality is minimal. I didn't use my HTPC to play pirated films, as I can't stand the look of divx/xvid at 57".
    • I have owned two Media Center PCs, and currently use two 5504 ReplayTV's as my main PVR units.

      Looks as though you've not personally owned a TiVo box, but have you used one on a semi-regular basis (friend or relative's house)? I'm trying to decide between a TiVo and a ReplayTV. The prices are essentially the same at this point and people who have owned either one always tell me the other guy sucks, but inveriably have never used it. Kind of like the Mac and Windows battle (:

      So how about it? Have you use
    • I currently run MCE2005. I run both a Hauppauge PVR 500 (dual-tuner) that captures non-pay cable, and an ATI (pre-broadcast-flag) HD Wonder connected to an antenna on the roof. Although it reaches the speed limit on my drive, I can capture a 1080i or 720p HD broadcast and two "best" resolution analog-cable shows at the same time.

      I have no trouble outputting from MCE2005 at 720x480 to my tube TV for DVDs and cable, and likewise the 720p and 1080i recordings look nice scaled down as well.

      I *also* have no
    • Hell yes, I love my ReplayTV. I have played with a Tivo, and I ended up buying a ReplayTV. The ReplayTV is not as flexible as the Tivo, but it is much easier to use. Plus, it seems all the addon software is easier to use to. I currently offload some content automatically every night to my desktop computer, sort through it on the desktop, and then view any content from any computer or ReplayTV in my house. All this with no hacking or tweaking at all, just installing one program on the computers. The picture
  • I know technically I could use MythTV and hack away but I got better things to do.
    What do you suggests?

  • Tivo vs comcast (Score:5, Informative)

    by FerretFrottage ( 714136 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @02:48PM (#11836403)
    I have a standalone tivo with tivo2go software and it is pretty neat. I really like the tivo interface, season passes....all works well. As I moved and dropped directv, I added comcast cable since they are also my ISP. I got a promotion for htdv and their new Motorola 6412 DVR. That box does record HD and supports dual recording via single coax cable connection. But the user interface and other tivo like features are not near as nice, plus the box seems to freeze up every so often (even when not recording). The thing that makes me appreciate my tivo is that I haven't seen tivo prevent me from recording or fast forwarding through a show. There are reports [pvrblog.com] that comcast is doing just that, although I have not experienced it for myself.
    • I suspect those reports are inaccurate. I've watched both shows in question, both time delayed and had no problems fast forwarding in them.

      I suspect someone ran into one of the "UI-freezing" issues, and it coincidentally happened during a commercial and they got whipped up about it. There are definitely times the UI becomes unresponsive, and obviously you're more likely to notice it when its a commercial than during the five minutes you're just watching the TV.

      The freezing problem is annoying, if you want

  • Motorola 6xxx HDDVR is best (Score:5, Informative)

    by hackstraw ( 262471 ) * on Thursday March 03, 2005 @02:49PM (#11836411)

    I've got one of these, and it does everything that the article mentions lacking in the products he used. I'm not sure if it goes weeks into the future with the guide, I've never tried. Oh, one thing it does not have is 30sec skip, but it has 3 or 4 levels of fast forward, and it accounts for human reaction time when hitting play. I always get exactly to the end of a commercial break, sometimes I get the last 5 or 10 secs of the commercial.

    It has all of the Season Pass features of a Tivo, and all in all its a great device, plus its HD. Oh, it also has two tuners so I can watch and record a show at the same time. The equivalent media PC would cost much more than I pay for this device, and not be as good. A Tivo is close, but no HD. I was pleasantly surprised with this device.
  • A great read and strong comparison piece for anyone interested in DVR technology. Would love to see Ed or someone else expand on this piece and incorporate the current HDTV DirecTV TiVo, Comcast's Foundation box being rolled out in a pilot program in Washington State and MythTV.

    I think "DVR Technology" is overrated...atleast to anyone who has a TV Tuner Card in the PC and a decent set of drivers and TV Tuner software (Hauppauge's WinTV for xawtv/bttv for Linux). I got a basic one for $20.00 and it does th

    • Amen.

      My old tower is now my media center. I bought an external TV tuner that connects via firewire and has it's own remote control. The UI is not quite as nice as a TiVo, but it has a great many more features. There is no monthly fee, I can archive to DVD or VCD and shows or movies I wish to keep, it has a completely configurable set of controls including skipping ahead and back, adding more space is as easy as sticking another hard drive on it, it can do double duty by acting as my DVD player, mp3 playe

    • I have 180Gb of diskspace at my disposal, the ability to skip, timeshift, record, picture-in-picture, channel scan etc that most TiVo users gloat about, with the performance being limited only by my CPU/Graphics/RAM, all of which I'd rather update than buy a new TiVo/DVR device.

      While I agree that having the powerful computer do the DVR functions allows for more flexibility when it comes to upgrades, I also have a computer with tuner cards and all of the related software to do exactly what you're doing (ti
      • The inability to decode DirecTV on a PC is the big killer for me as well. DirecTivos record the compressed signal from the satellite directly and then decode it when you watch it. Any standalone solution would have to decode the satellite signal via the satellite receiver box then reencode it for storage. You either have to reencode at a reasonable bitrate and deal with more artifacts from transcoding or encode at a really high bitrate to preserve as much of the (already lossily encoded) signal as possib
    • the performance being limited only by my CPU/Graphics/RAM, all of which I'd rather update than buy a new TiVo/DVR device

      Yes....much better to buy/build a $800 computer than buy a $99 TiVo.
    • I recently picked up the ATI HDTV Wonder and so far, it's pretty good at recording programs, but the user interface on the included software (downloading the latest from ATI) is horrible. What I'm wondering is if anyone out there has found a better interface for it. Otherwise, I love that digital picture.

  • Microsoft vs Tivo (Score:5, Informative)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @02:51PM (#11836437) Homepage Journal
    Microsoft owns a big chunk of Comcast [microsoft.com].

  • ReplayTV (Score:3, Insightful)

    by omahajim ( 723760 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @02:59PM (#11836527)
    Does no one like ReplayTV anymore? I see only one other mention of Replay in the currently posted comments. My old Panasonic HS2000 (many many years old) is still going strong on ReplayTV.

    I like MyReplayTV on the web, and I like the skip forward button.

    Is Replay the Beta to Tivo's VHS? (figuratively speaking - where the alleged better technology doesn't always win). I admit that I've never owned a Tivo, but in the few times I did side-by-side them, I greatly preferred the Replay.

    --
    /. foreclosed on my sig.

    • Does no one like ReplayTV anymore?

      No, they just went out of business. Makes it so you can't buy 'new' units so reviews like TFA don't bother with them.
      • They're not dead yet? Didn't D&M buy them and agree to simply remove the program-sharing function? Sure looks like I can buy new units at my local CompUSA or through www.replaytv.com [replaytv.com].

        I'm not trying to be a (overused phrase here) "fanboy", just trying to check your argument.

        • It's more psychological than reality. Since the company ReplayTV failed, it's usually assumed by reviewers that anyone else will also fail with the same box.

          That's why products bought from failed companies are usually renamed, so that they don't have the stigma of their previous owners.
        • They haven't had a new manufacturing run of the boxes in a long time and don't plan to, but it will take a while to sell through all the remaining units. After that time, D&M wants to use the technology in their other products or license it to third parties.

          ReplayTV did this once before, at the end of 2000, but they did an about face and went on to produce the 4000 and 5000 series, but this time it looks like they're serious.

          Source: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050228/cgm065_1.html
      • ummmmm... they didn't go out of business, they were bought out. And you can still buy "new" units. Or by "new" did you mean updated in the last year? You can go to their webpage and buy a new unit. They just haven't put out a new model in some time. I just gave my 4504 to my dad (since I am now using DirecTivo) and hate every minute of TV without auto-commercial skip. If I ever go back to cable, I'll probably take the replaytv back from him. That is, of course, assuming I don't go HD.

  • comcast hd-dvr not as bad as expected (Score:3, Interesting)

    by adpowers ( 153922 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @03:01PM (#11836559)
    My mom surprised me one day saying she ordered the HD DVR from Comcast (which runs Microsoft software). It is like $5/month or something like that, and there was no up front purchase. I was horrified, someone between those two companies could be nothing less than spawn of the devil. Well, as usual, the installation experience was bad (I've never had a good install from Comcast), because their software servers were having problems and it took a few hours to download the software. After that, however, I was amazed at how much better it was than I expected. The interface is nothing to call home about, but at least it loads and moves pretty fast. The thing that impressed me the most was the HDTV recording ability. You are able to record two HD streams and watch another at the same time! I tried scrubbing through some HD shows we recorded and it was smooth at any speed I tried, it fast forwarded better than any digital content I have seen and even VHS tapes... and this was high definition content.

    Another that I appreciate is that it doesn't put ads on screen when you pause video, you can see exactly what you want to. It also doesn't assume what you are interested in and try recording shows it thinks you would like. Probably my biggest gripe is that it doesn't know what channels you don't get (which is probably Comcast's fault). It'll dispaly a bunch of channels while browsing the channels, but we don't get half of them. Not only does it take more time to scroll, but I have also tried recording shows that are on a channel we don't get. Since it doesn't know better, it silently tries to record it, yet nothing shows up. It would be nice if it could give us a warning. I have yet to see a show we weren't able to record (although, if it starts happening when the broadcast flag comes out, I'll have my parents return it).

    Last Sunday I set it to record the Oscars, and then I fast forwarded through at super speed and just watched the good parts. That was very handy.

    It also has firewire output, but I have yet to try transferring the shows to my PowerBook (using a utility that saves HD streams from firewire). I'd really like to do this so I can save all the IMAX movies on the INHD channels for a long period of time.

    Andrew

    • Re:comcast hd-dvr not as bad as expected (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Probably my biggest gripe is that it doesn't know what channels you don't get (which is probably Comcast's fault). It'll dispaly a bunch of channels while browsing the channels, but we don't get half of them.

      I'm sure it would be simple to filter those channels from the list, but my guess is that they leave them there by design. They want you to see what you're not getting in hopes that you'll sign up for a more expensive package.

    • fugetaboutit.... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Ryan C. ( 159039 )
      You won't be able to transfer those shows.

      There's a little thing called 5C or HDCP protection that flags shows as "copy once", "copy never", or "copy always". Unless the show is "copy always", the set top box will refuse to unencrypt the show for your Mac. It will only send them to an "approved" recording device like a HD-DVR that will them store them as "copy never". Think there will ever be an "approved" recording program or card for a PC/Mac? Nope. Never.

      The only channels that are usually copy

  • Propaganda (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TexTex ( 323298 ) * on Thursday March 03, 2005 @03:05PM (#11836596)
    It seems like all three have various nice features but all three also have negatives that you have to suffer through.

    Um...from reading the article (and I'd hope our submitter did, as he's the first feedback post praising the author)...you'll see how most of it defends the MS box on a point-by-point basis of what Tivo offers.

    To me, it reads like 'We can do everything Tivo can do better...' It's a response to Pogue's praise of Tivo with praise of his own. A fair comparison, a blogger's thoughts on DVRs, and a waste of slashdot's frontpage.
    • As a demonstration of Microsoft's continuing committment to the Media Center initiative, you will now be receiving free anti-virus and anti-spyware tools with your Media Center PC.

      Microsoft Corporation. Bringing Technology to your Desktop, Laptop, and Living Room for over 20 years. Your Trusted Name in Technology.
    • I did read the article. It does highlight much of what Media Center can do but also reiterates from the New York Times article what TiVo can do and throws in the analysis on the two. If MCE can do everything that TiVo can I think it is fair and that there is nothing wrong with pointing this out. It's nice having the third comparison with the HDTV cable box and the added analysis of what the author calls the "elephants in the room," HDTV and multiple tuners. If there are features that were neglected in t
  • Reading that article, I wondered how my Time Warner issued Scientific Atlanta DVR box would rank with Tivo (which I've never used). The article says at the top, however, that he was testing a Scientific Atlanta box with SARA software, not Passport software. The difference is striking! A lot of the advantages of Tivo disappear with Passport.

    My box has the intelligent fast forward, and it amazingly gets me to the right place without going too far. Actually, that's not amazing, for I can envision exactly

    • I think the biggest problem Tivo has is that they didn't have a hardware stratedgy; it was all software. This has left them with nothing new to offer even Tivo stalwarts like me in the face of needed digital cable recording (CableCard), digital audio recording, or HD (which would be combinable with CableCard, although an SD CableCard solution wouldn't be bad, either).

  • phone line (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Dop ( 123 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @03:09PM (#11836650)
    When are they going to get past the phone line requirement for initial setup? I have the DirectTV TiVo and it works great getting channel info right off of the satallite once it's setup, but I had to bring a dish over to a friends house to use their phoneline at first.

  • My stance towards Tivo (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Isldeur ( 125133 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @03:14PM (#11836689)

    Here's my stance towards Tivo. I'd love to support that company - I like what they did originally and understand they have pressures these days so that things may be less than ideal.

    But I always knew I'd be moving towards HD, so I didn't jump the bandwagon when it first came out. Now I have two options:

    1. Buy a HD Tivo for more than $1000 and then pay a monthly fee of something like $13.00, or
    2. Get Adelphia's HD DVR for (get this) free for 5 months, then $4.95 per month.

    O.k. So Tivo might be better. But it isn't that better. And, as I never had one of the originals, (as most people ) I don't know the difference.

    Tivo, in its current form, without liscencing from Cable Companies, is dead. It's only time.
    • Buy a HD Tivo for more than $1000 and then pay a monthly fee of something like $13.00

      Yes and no. A DirecTV subscription is required for the HD TiVo and the additional DVR charge is only $5 for all the DVRs on your plan... on top of, of course, the monthly charge for DirecTV and additional $10 for their HD channels, should you choose to get them. There is no charge for TiVo beyond your DirecTV bill.

      I patiently waited for the price to drop before I picked up the HD TiVo. When it didn't, I got it anyway.
      • You spent $1000 on directivo HD? Thats $83 a month for 1 year, thats more than I pay a month for adelphia with their hd pvr and then you have to pay directv charges on top of it. You really must love tv.
  • I use Directv with the built in tivo and love it. The Tivo software integrates with the normal program guide from DirecTV, and works just like a normal tivo in every other way.

    Unfortunately it only has 35 hours of storage and last time I checked that was as big as they went (I'm not interested in putting in a larger hdd myself. I spend all day fixing/building/programming computers. When i watch TV i want a solution that just plugs in and works).

    After playing with PVR's from dishnetwork, adelphia, and comc
    • I was actually on the phone with DirecTV asking them about upgrading my Tivo today and they have an 80 hour Series 2 system. It's $99 + $14 shipping. You may also be able to find it at your local Best Buy.
  • and it better than I expected. The problems come during initial setup (as expected) as you have to figure out a sea of acronyms and discover inherent shortcomings in various products/interfaces/software. The other problem is the sometimes very specific driver versions that one has to use that aren't clearly marked as such by the manufacturer. The hauppage cards are chief among them (or were 6 months ago when I setup the beast). There is a lot of knowledge that is taken for granted by the manufacturers o

  • Bittorrent... (Score:3, Funny)

    by homer_ca ( 144738 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @03:29PM (#11836868)
    ...is my Tivo!

    (not my joke. repeating another /.er's comment)

  • words, some people have heard of them (Score:3, Insightful)

    by motorsabbath ( 243336 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @03:30PM (#11836883) Homepage
    Turn off your television, read a book. TV is for schmoes. ;-)
  • I have the DishNetwork DVR 522. It is a SD box with dual tuners. This is great because I can either watch two live streams at once (on two seperate TV's or PIP on one), I can record two live streams to the Hard Drive, watch one live and record one, or I can record two and watch two previously recorded ones. The options that dual tuner DVR's bring to the table are great. Dish also just recently added their "Dish Pass" features to the 522 to offer full NBR (Name Based Recording). It is great to say "Give

  • I prefer UltimateTV (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Goldenhawk ( 242867 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @03:39PM (#11836977) Homepage
    ... over Tivo. We bought an UltimateTV reciever from Radio Shack (*gasp!*) about five years ago. Since then, my wife's mom upgraded from a basic DirecTV unit to a DirecTivo unit, and we have had plenty of time to use it, and we were so frustrated by the Tivo's limitations that we immediately went on eBay and bought a couple more used UTV units for spare parts and backup units. While not as hackable as a Tivo (you can upgrade the hard drive), the basic functionality is equal to a Tivo, the guide appears and scrolls far faster, the 30-second skip works perfectly, it's got the predictive resume everyone has been raving about in this discussion, and we actually like the fact it does NOT guess what we want to watch and fill up our hard drive unless we ask it to do so. And oh, yes, it does allow us to specify not to record duplicates, etc. One big plus - the Tivo's max fast forward speed only seems to be about 8x real time. The UTV will do 300x fast forward and rewind.

    Unfortunately, nobody sells these units new anymore; apparently Microsoft decided to put its eggs in the MCE basket instead.

    We looked at the HDTV version of the DirecTivo, and it was even worse than the basic DirecTivo.

    We won't be able to use the UTV boxen with HDTV, but then we don't watch TV so much that it really bothers us, and besides we are too far from a major market to get over-the-air HDTV anyway.

  • Tivo is dying (Score:2, Insightful)

    by FreedomPolice ( 822513 )
    DVRs are now a commodity, to profit Tivo should have kept innovating. Instead cheap cableco DVRs are eating Tivos lunch on the low end and Tivo has ceded the high end by not supporting HiDef. If Tivo wants to survive they need to:
    1. Get HiDef support NOW!
    2. Lower the cost of subscription. Many people use the internet to download show data, Tivo should pass the savings to the consumer. Current Tivo owners won't upgrade because newer Tivos aren't noticeably better than old ones, and people new to DVRs want eit

    • Re:Tivo is dying (Score:3, Informative)

      by Gruneun ( 261463 )
      Get HiDef support NOW!

      They have it. It's been available for about a year now through DirecTV and it supports OTA broadcast. They can't provide it for cable companies because TiVo would have to support their individual formats and they all want to introduce their proprietary boxes.

      Lower the cost of subscription.

      They did. Additional TiVo cost less than the original. Lifetime service is still available and pays for itself in a few years. Then, there's no monthly charge.

      Innovate dammit!

      They have

  • bottom line TCO (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dmh20002 ( 637819 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @03:45PM (#11837035)
    TFA didn't include an explicit comparison of TCO.

    cable box DVR is cheapest 5-10 a month, no up front

    tivo is cheap in the short run. $100 up front plus 12.95 a month

    MSFT media PC expensive $500+ up front. cheapest HP mcpc = $549 plus shipping, no ongoing cost for programming guide.

    Myth TV sw no cost, hw expensive up front similar $500+ for computer, no ongoing fee.

  • I also currently use an 8300HD, but I have the passport software that he mentioned, and it is definitely better than what he was reviewing. Only thing that is lacking is tivo's wishlists and 30-second skip. I never used 30-second skip much anyway. The things the HD DVR offers that my TiVo did not is complete integration with the cable service, and a tiny pricetag. I think I pay $9 a month for the PVR. With TiVo I had to buy the box, upgrade it, and then pay $13 a month to keep it updated. If it broke, it wa

    • Sadly, TiVo will not be able to compete against this much longer, they need to come up with some things the cable companies cannot match, and QUICKLY.

      It is really hard to compete against a monopoly. I mean do you really think the cable company can provide the hardware, service, support, software development, etc. for $5-$10 a month? Most likely they just roll most of their costs into everyone's cable bill (since they are a monopoly they don't have to worry about underselling the competition) and Tivo u

  • I shopped hard and then went with KISS (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rbrander ( 73222 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @03:57PM (#11837156) Homepage
    I looked at TiVO, at the Interact-TV "Telly" (see interact-tv.com), at the Lite-On DVR, and very hard at MythTV.

    And finally, I went and bought a "humble" Pioneer DVR-520, that's just a VCR except it burns DVDs and/or records to hard drive. No network access to TV schedules at all, you have to set it to record Channel X at Y o'clock on day Z.

    TiVO might have won if they would just friggin' provide TV guide service to Canada, but they won't.

    And all the solutions that are really a Linux or Windows PC in a smaller box had the same problem: they crash.

    Most of them not often, but even once every few weeks is way too often. If it were just me, fine, but my wife was unequivocal: we don't NEED the thing, she's just wearily learning a new remote and whole new approach to TV just to get along with me..."But if it crashes like a PC in the middle of the Gilmore Girls, it's leaving the house through a closed window that you can pay for".

    The Plain Ol' DVR is not from a computer company, but the long-experienced consumer electronics company that made the first LaserDisc machines. It just works, was working 5 minutes out of the box, and won't crash on her though it be a fairly sophisticated computer.

    And frankly, I'm kind of glad to be talked into it as well. Upstairs, I geek out to my heart's content on a Linux box. Downstairs, watching TV, I'm generally beat, have a drink or so and supper inside me, and Just Want to Watch TV. Any technicalities deeper than picking my show off the playlist are unwelcome.

    This box meets the 80/20 rule. Anything that can do "chasing playback", skip ads, avoids fussing with tapes, and can make a DVD of those few shows I want to save, meets at least 80% of what you want from the experience.

    Setting it to catch all the shows we watch regularly took me about an hour. I guess another half hour per year will be needed to stop the recordings at the end of each season and start them again, often at new times, each fall. Avoiding that half-hour per year is not worth hundreds of dollars, and it ABSOLUTELY isn't worth managing another household computer through upgrades and patches and crashes.

    • "And all the solutions that are really a Linux or Windows PC in a smaller box had the same problem: they crash."

      Could you expand on this a little more? My perception (from scanning the MythTV mailing list) was that Myth could be complex to set up, but that it was pretty stable after you were done. Maybe you just didn't have the patience to dink with it?

      More on-topic: there is a lucid comparison between Tivo and MythTV on the Myth mailing list here [gossamer-threads.com].

    • TiVO might have won if they would just friggin' provide TV guide service to Canada, but they won't.

      That's why you get a Series 1 Tivo and hack it [tivocanada.com].
    • Heh...I like the implied comment in the question: "didn't have the patience to dink with it"...as in, patience is a virtue, and lack of same is a fault.

      It's not a fault to want something to just plug in and go after you spend a lot of money on it.

      I 'dink with' a Linux box most evenings. I use MEPIS Linux, among the most plug-and-play distros ever developed. And the new version recently cost me most of a weekend with tedious, stupid stuff like not working with my new DVD writer and not being able to reco
    • Oh, yeah, forgot one point. My parts list for the proposed MythTV box ran $1500 Cdn. The DVR was $750 . Half the price for, I repeat, 80% of the functionality.

      Yes, yes, the two aren't comparable. The MythTV box would have had a top-end burner, a 200GB hard drive, the Hauppage 350 top-end video capture, and a $150 sound card that did 7.1 digital sound.

      But honestly? I wouldn't have used most of that functionality except on "Star Wars" type heavy-sound movies. And it all would have been obsolete in 3 y
  • I bought my first TiVo in 2000, when the company was only a year old. I was a charter member of the Cult of TiVo. But these days, I don't miss it.

    You will in the future when Microsoft forces you to buy a new box or else.
  • I got a good laugh out of this dose of fanboyism from his "review".

    (about TiVo)What's really cool is that, for a given channel, you can scroll both forward into the future [...] and into the past

    MCE's guide doesn't look into the past, but it works just fine when looking at the future. MCE also offers [

    unrelated features to distract from this shortcoming]

    So then his conclusion at the end:

    Bottom line? Feature for feature, Windows XP Media Center Edition matches TiVo and even exceeds it in some measures.

    Add

  • From the article:
    "Multiple tuners. Again, TiVo gives you one tuner per box, unless you're willing to pony up for the pricey DirecTiVo solution."

    My DirectTVTivo Box has 2 Tuners, paid $99 for it, for 70 hours of Programming, no extra costs at all. Just needed to run a co-axial like from the Dish.

    Moronic indeed.

  • DirecTiVo HD (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Snommis ( 861843 ) on Thursday March 03, 2005 @05:07PM (#11837979) Homepage
    I recently went HD, and bought a DirecTv TiVo HD box (HR10-250) for $1000. I had always used ReplayTV prior, but Replay has no HD box. (I even e-mailed the company to see when they will have one. They said, in essence, "no time soon".)
    Frankly, after using the ReplayTV for so long, I guess I got spoiled, because I HATE my TiVo! Extremely slow guide (actually comes up in chunks), no 30 second skip (gonna try the hack from the article tonight, though), and why can I only pause for 30 minutes? I used to pause my Replay at the beginning of a hockey game (not that I have that to worry about this year) and come back an hour later to start watching. Skip all the commercials and intermissions and still return to live with about 5 minutes left in the game. I could go on about no networking capability, ect. but you get my point.
    Overall, the Tivo feels "Fisher Price" compared to the Replay. The menus look candy coated and dumbed down for the masses, and I really miss the pause countdown timer from my Replay. I hope like hell that Marantz (I think) realizes what they bought and runs with it! I'd ditch TiVo in a second.

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