Militants Planned Attack On Indian Software Firms 599
Alien54 writes "Militants killed in an encounter in New Delhi on Saturday night planned to attack leading software companies in Bangalore in addition to the Indian Military Academy in Dehra Dun, Delhi police said on Sunday Indian police claim the men were members of Lashkar-e-Toiba - a Wahabi militant group fighting for an independent Kashmir. Apart from maps of call centers police also recovered 100 kilos of dynamite, 10.5 kilos of RDX explosive, 450 detonators, three AK-56 rifles and a satellite phone."
What is the world coming to? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:What is the world coming to? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What is the world coming to? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What is the world coming to? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:What is the world coming to? (Score:2, Redundant)
How is this different to current tech support?
and this changes phone support HOW? (Score:3, Informative)
I don't think most Americans would notice the difference, other than hold times and chants.
Re:What is the world coming to? (Score:2, Funny)
They had the satellite phone to make sure they didn't mess the tech support calls, silly.
Re:What is the world coming to? (Score:5, Interesting)
In my previous job, I had someone pretend to be calling from the hospital with news that the manager's wife was dying in hospital in a bizarre attempt to speak to them. Note sure what they expected.
Manager: Hi, my wife, how is she?
Caller: Oh, I was just joking about that so I could speak to you. Now, here are some problems I'd like fixed. Hello?.... Hello?
Re:Dear GOD (Score:3, Insightful)
Last time I made an anti-American comment someone told me "You are, quite simply, not welcome here then" and I got modded Redundant. I guess most people don't see it once it goes below 0 so getting to -5 is hard.
I can tell you're not American simply because you can spell centre
Re:Dear GOD (Score:2)
Re:Dear GOD (Score:3, Insightful)
Self-centred and ignorant because it takes something very serious in India/Pakistan and turns it into a joke about call centres (which seems to be the farthest most comments get here on any story about India). It's not
Isn't that a little extreme? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Isn't that a little extreme? (Score:2)
I know, it's horribly wrong to make a joke about this kind of situation. But I thought the rule was Quark is fodder for anything.
Re:Isn't that a little extreme? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Isn't that a little extreme? (Score:4, Funny)
--
**Life is too short to be serious** "
Now THAT's irony...
How they got caught (Score:4, Funny)
but.. (Score:4, Informative)
Attacking a major software company! Great! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Attacking a major software company! Great! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Attacking a major software company! Great! (Score:5, Insightful)
The idea is to weaken the entire country and hurt/scare the general population who will eventually give in. I say eventually because terrorists are usually thinking in timespans that take generations.
Whether it works or not is debatable. Terrorism was a key component of the establishment of Israel as a state. It also worked in Afghanistan against russia. In other places the record is spotty at best.
i guess this just shows... (Score:2, Funny)
many a time i wanted to throttle the fool on the other end of the phone in bangalore...
Re:i guess this just shows... (Score:5, Funny)
I guess you are not a member of open source community. In our community it is always the user who is the fool!
... I disagree with the tactics used here but ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Just do it. It's got to be cheaper than the fisticuffs.
Another brilliant post by Truth Quark! 60 years of conflict suddenly resolved! ...
Now, about Palestine
Re:... I disagree with the tactics used here but . (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:... I disagree with the tactics used here but . (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:... I disagree with the tactics used here but . (Score:2)
It's not that easy I'm afraid... (Score:4, Insightful)
When India was struggling to achieve independence, it became clear that the religious unrest would likely drive the country apart. The solution to this was partition, which divided India into two countries, India and Pakistan (literally "land of the pure"). Kashmir, which was then a kingdom, decided that it didn't like either choice, and its ruler declared Kashmiri independence for itself.
Everyone accepted Kashmir's position but shortly after independence and partition took place, Pakistan unilaterally invaded Kashmir claiming it for itself. Kashmir, with no hope of surviving by itself, and with no other help coming from elsewhere, asked India for assistance. This call for help put India in a bind, because it didn't want to provoke Pakistan unnecessarily (partition itself had been a bloody affair) and so it presented Kashmir with the only viable option: become part of the sovereign state of India.
Kashmir chose India over Pakistan, and officially became part of India. Hence, legally at least, Kashmir is Indian territory. However, Pakistan didnt (and still doesnt) accept this, and refused to withdraw its claim on the region.
Whether or not Kashmir should become independent is a very stickly question. Personally, I'd like to see it happen but, frankly, there's too much at stake - not least of all national pride - for either India or Pakistan to seriously consider it. So the status quo, with part of still Kashmir occupied by Pakistan, remains and probably will continue to do so for some considerable time. Certainly, until Pakistan readopts democracy, its unlikely to change.
By the way, while the India-Pakistan division was based on religion, it's a fact that India now has a bigger Muslim population than Pakistan. And, apart from a few religious zealots on either side, most Hindus and Muslims (and Christians, Buddhists, etc) manage to co-exist peacefully in India.
Brings to mind... (Score:2)
> And, apart from a few religious zealots on either side, most Hindus and Muslims (and Christians, Buddhists, etc) manage to co-exist peacefully in India.
One of the most pathetically funny things I've ever seen was a broadcast news story from a few years back, showing two rival groups of Buddhist monks fighting in the street over control of a temple. They were serious about it too; some of them were using what looked like quarterstaffs.
I'm pretty sure it was on the Pacific Rim rather than in India, t
Re:It's not that easy I'm afraid... (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Yes the raja (roughly translates to king but is more like a local lord) of kashmir wanted to maintain his monarchy (didn't want either pakistan or india as both's political systems were shaping up to be purely parliamentary, i.e. no monarchy).
2. Under the terms of partition (agreed upon by muslim and hindu political parties..
a) in states where a popular majority (muslim or hindu) exists, that decides which country that state joins (geographical limitations allowing).
b) in a state where no clear majority exists, the ruler of the state will decide.
3. In the case of Kashmir..
a) there was and still is a muslim majority.
b) when the political reality of keeping kashmir as an independent monarchy wasn't possible, the raja choose india (against partition rules).
That is one of the major seeds of discontent that has lead to two wars between the two countries. All this is history.
For the last 20 years, in an attempt to stamp out terrorism as an excuse, the indian army has been targeting any muslims who raise a political voice; arrest, torture without plausible cause (sometimes leading to dead). It has only created a new generation of terrorists (freedom fighters) and only leads to lend weight to the calls for seperation from india.
I can only dig up one reference right now:
http://www.amnesty.org/results/is/eng?query
Re:It's not that easy I'm afraid... (Score:5, Interesting)
The region now known as in Indian subcontinent had been fragmented into small kingdoms (much like US districts ofcourse)... ruled by small kings (same status as say mayors ? )... now every now and then there would arise some particular king that would conquer the entire sub-continent over his reign i.e. Chandragupta Maurya ... or King Bharat and s on... but after their death the smaller kingdoms would break away again. So it went on till the muslim invaders came in and conquered literally all of India, forcing all the smaller kings to pay taxes to them and recognize them as the true ruler.
It was during the period of Emperor Aurangjeb that the British came in and asked permission to set up a trading outpost, from which they went on to capture small kingdoms one by on through their policy of "divide and rule". As such India and Pakistan were actually one country ruled by the Mughal emperors and were a unified nation long before the British. Glad to clear up that piece of propaganda. Feel free to check up on Mughal Emperors and how much of India they governed, on googol or someplace.
As for democratically elected leaders... India and Pakistan actually were all small kingdoms DESPITE the british rule e.g. Hyderabad, Junagarh, Kashmir and so on. They were made to choose to join one or the other country and yes the choices hold even 60 years later as such. Else the alternative is that none of the choices hold and I think neither India nor Pakistan would wish to accept that alternative. i.e. a full redrawing of map
AS for India's being secular ... isn't USA supposed to be the same ? Heck it is supposed to treat blacks and whites equally. India to its credit has had a muslim president and a female prime minister. When was the last time US could boast of either or those or a black heading the country ? And despite the declarations of equality and black and whites peacefully coexisting, there have been riots between these two factions often enough.
Heck in the light of current events I would go as far as to say, USA is ruled by a fundamentalst Christian Government. Care to dispute that ? who cares ? Given the choice Kashmir would leave India *and* Pakistan... and next morning have the Chinese walking in just like Tibbet, costing India a major militarily strategic region, and gaining the Kashmiris nothing as Chinese would be happy to wipe out the local muslim populace to make room for their own.
So much for that theory of yours ...
Re:... I disagree with the tactics used here but . (Score:4, Informative)
To be on topic, the LeT [fas.org] is mostly comprised of Pakistani extremists and is a declared terrorist outfit by the USA and one of the first Kashmiri terrorists outfits to be banned by Pakistan. To end on a positive note, read this editorial in the pakistan newspaper Dawn [dawn.com].
Re:... I disagree with the tactics used here but . (Score:4, Insightful)
With my luck, I would have to file the bug report. (Score:5, Funny)
Priority: Critical/Stopper
Re:With my luck, I would have to file the bug repo (Score:2, Funny)
Unprotected sex with a member of the opposite gender.
Here it is, with suggested solution and docs (Score:2, Interesting)
2:Remove the ability to access the data physically or remotely via destructive means. (null routing companies and countries linked to target, political manipulation, EMP, conventional explosives, N/B/C if desperate)
3:Repeat 2 periodically to insure no third party benefactors such as other countries with proper labor laws (using documented loopholes such as offshoring) are able to prop up target country.
Bug
...wow (Score:5, Insightful)
I know most of it is humour (of some sort), but don't you think this is being just a bit insensitive? Mod me down if you must, but there must be a limit to self-centredness, even for Americans.
</karma-suicide>
Re:...wow (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't call it "a bit insensitive" if some of these MBA "salary and bonus-whores" running American corporations that are doing so much offshore outsourcing had THEIR jobs outsourced too. Imagine! - an Indian or Chinese CEO of an American company that was compensated at 6 - 10% of what their American counterpart demanded, and liked it! I would find such a situation deliciously ironic instead of "a bit insensitive".
Instead, the USA actively promotes the "Peter Principle". How else to explain Carley Fiorina getting $45 Million USD in compensation after leaving HP in such a shambles? I understand that Fiorina is lined up for a sweet job in Dubya's regime (instead of a prolonged visit to Camp XRay for sabatoging a good chunk of American technological prowness).
Re:...wow (Score:3)
No, "gallows humour" refers to making jokes about your own situation. when you make "jokes" about other people being killed, it's called "being an insensitive self-centred ignorant prick".
The same thing happens every time there is some disaster not affecting Americans, eg, the bushfire in Canberra last year. Woe betide anyone who made jokes about the WTC bombing on the day it happened, but foreigners are fodder for jokes before they're cold in their graves.
Re:...wow (Score:2)
Illustrating my point. Terrorism against Americans is the worst thing in history. Against third-worlders, it's just a straight line.
Have a look at the posts her after the tsunami. Quarter of a million killed. Lots of remarks about how "they" deserved it for stealing American jobs.
Or did you miss the fact that we also mock/tease ourselves?
I didn't say you were assholes
Re:...wow (Score:3, Insightful)
I haven't seen anyone anywhere laughing about the massive loss of life from the tsunami -- but I have seen plenty of people laug
Re:...wow (Score:5, Insightful)
the title, and continue it in the comment body? (Score:5, Funny)
what if they had managed to attack.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Indian software industry is obsessed with Information security that it often does not expect an attack with a car bomb in the parking under ground. And Bangalore is a cosmopolitan city full of all kinds of people. You won't be watched by the entire crowd because you have a 3 inch beard.
Security is an illusion - but it is a precious illusion for those who keep it.
Re:what if they had managed to attack.... (Score:2)
I'm surprised it took this long. (Score:5, Insightful)
Are they trying to reproduce 1993 bomb blasts.. (Score:3, Insightful)
This one seems to be kindof similar to them, just targetting a little more high-tech organizations. These militants just cant see a country prosper and the people getting happy. If you cant do well, dont let anyone do well.
Wahabis (Score:5, Insightful)
It is a pity that words like "Militant" are used for these groups. We really need a word that summarises "Organised criminal gangs that want to steal entire countries". Of course {flamebait} this word would be useful because we could apply it to the Bush/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Rice/Blair/Berlusconi gang as well as the insurgents in Iraq, the part of the IRA that is opposed to the peace process, and the Taliban.{/flamebait} But words like "militant", "terrorist" and "insurgent" conceal rather than illuminate reality.
Re:Wahabis (Score:5, Funny)
The word is Government.
Re:Wahabis (Score:2)
"militants"? (Score:3, Insightful)
Call them what they are, terrorists. Or if "terrorists" is not acceptable, then how about "necromancers festering on people's grief and death"? That's pretty accurate.
Re:"militants"? (Score:2, Insightful)
You know, Sakharov, Ghandi, Osama bin Laden, Nelson Mandela, those types of guys.
Re:"militants"? (Score:2)
Re:"militants"? (Score:3, Insightful)
This is not to suggest that the murderers involved in this appaling act are not deserving of the highest level of scorn, but rather that the devaluation of the word terrorist makes it rather meaningles
Subject: YOUVE GOT MAIL BOMB (Score:5, Funny)
To: infidel@localhost
Reply-To: 72virgnluvr@hotmail.com
where are the well-covered NUB1LE H0USEW1VES in
my area who wanted to meet me?
i declare it a pagan and Crusader lie!!!!!!
DEATH TO HVHAKAK@18j987.bdx.com.in!!!!
This already succeeded in the US (Score:3, Funny)
I wish... (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess even an American can get sick of the typical American attitude sometimes...
Re:I wish... (Score:3, Insightful)
and really, why not? it's not like it's out of someone elses pocket if there's little laughter.
you can make a funny joke about just anything, and hell, i'd laugh at it. as long as it's a good joke.
you can make funny jokes about hitler, about winter war, about swedes, about finns about canadians, about liberalists, about capitalists, about terrorists, about tchechenyan freedom fighters and whatever.
here's one: "what's a moscow elevator? one tchechen
this was almost predicted by marcus ranum (Score:3, Interesting)
and one of them was touching this subject: http://www.ranum.com/security/homeland_security/e
Question (Score:2)
Lashkar-e-Toiba is a Pakistani terrorist group (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I bet... (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, why did the militants do this? Attacking companies that brings prosperity to the region hardly seems a way to inspire support from the locals or anybody else.
More proof that terrorism doesn't make sense.
Re:I bet... (Score:5, Insightful)
Terrorism is not about sense or economic benefits.
I'd like to thank the New Delhi police for a job excellently done.
Re:I bet... (Score:2)
If that was their objective, they sure did a lousy job:
They didn't claim or even admit responsibility. They hardly communicated anything about their wishes or intentions. If the attack had a goal, it was ridiculously vague ('to terrorize the USA into leaving the Middle East alone') and had no chance in hell of succeeding.
Especially as what little they said made clear they hate the US so much that even pulling out of the Middle East wasn't going to guarantee freedom from being bom
Re:I bet... (Score:2)
Re:I bet... (Score:5, Insightful)
That was the point. Those were Kashmere terrorists blowing up Indian call centers. Al Qaeda was not overly concerned that 911 might be harming NYC's prosperity either, on the contrary!
Re:I bet... (Score:3, Insightful)
The money generated from Bangalore tends to go to other parts of the country, as Kashmir is quite rich on its own. That is why attacking Bangalore's software companies made little difference to the terrorists.
Re:I bet... (Score:2, Informative)
BBC Profile of Lashkar-e-Toiba [bbc.co.uk].
So it is not Kashmiris attacking Indians.Believe it or not most Kashmiris are sick and tired of terrorism.They will rather get on with their life and business.Tourism which was the main source of income for kasmiris declined drastically a
Re:I bet... (Score:2)
Actually, according to the Wiki, China even occupies a large portion of Kashmir
Re:I bet... (Score:4, Informative)
Hope that clears up the confusion a little bit
- Jalil Vaidya
Re:I bet... (Score:3, Interesting)
And by Pakistan, I mean a nuclear armed country which has demonstrated its willingness to proliferate WMD technology, whose intelligence services and military are thoroughly penetrated by Islamic radicals, whose President's life is under constant threat, and whose feigned ignorance of anti-India terror cells is tant
Re:I bet... (Score:2)
Its not like it was when the revolutionary war was fought, you can line up as a civilian and fight the military anymore. So they hit the gov't where it hurts the most, in the pocket book. They lose business's and the tax money from them and their products and citizens and their tax's.
Re:I bet not (Score:2)
I doubt that the companies there have a big network of redundant call centres ready in case of terrorist attacks.
Regarding companies not caring about the quality of support may be right in some cases but not all. Setting up a new call centre is not a trivial matter. Two days would be unrealistic unless you're looking at a tiny non-technical desk.
Re: Oh, please. (Score:4, Informative)
> Militants? Militant whats? Militant Communists? Militant Republicans? Militant Anti-Caste activists? Militant Hindu Nationalists? Militant Islamists? Militant Christian Doomsday Fundamentalists? Militant Hello Kitty Fans?
> Just saying 'militants' is ignorant reporting.
Perhaps it's militant dislexics who missed the word 'Wahabi' in the overview.
Re:Oh, please. (Score:2, Insightful)
> the readers like scared, reactionary six year olds.
Maybe one of these days we'll have readers with an attention span that lets them read past the first line in the article. You can't expect us to believe you're a big fan of critical thinking if you don't read as far as the second sentence: Indian police claim the men were members of Lashkar-e-Toiba - a Wahabi militant group fighting for an independent Kashmir.
I knew attention
Re:Oh, please. (Score:3, Informative)
Gee, Officer Krupke (Score:5, Insightful)
Would you prefer that we called them disaffected individuals with poor impulse control?
Here you go. (Score:3, Informative)
Here's some more background [subcontinent.com] on them. Looks like they're tied into the infamous Al-Qaida too.
Re:Oh, please. (Score:2, Troll)
Moderators.... (Score:2)
If this person can't be bothered to read the posting it can't surely be called "insightful"...
Re:Can't get my schadenfreude on. (Score:3, Insightful)
But those are the joys of capitalism and the global economy. Funny thing though, when it was blue collar jobs that were being shipped elsewhere no one really gave two hoots (when was the last time you bought clothes that were 100 percent made in the US, with US-sourced materials?), but now it'
Re:Can't get my schadenfreude on. (Score:2)
Actually, a lot of people did and do care, but being blue collar workers, the concerns usually get dismissed as the usual union troublemaking. :)
PBS' Frontline had an excellent show [pbs.org] about how bog-box discount stores, Wal-Mart in particular, are affecting the economy, by buying everythi
Re:Can't get my schadenfreude on. (Score:2)
Re:Can't get my schadenfreude on. (Score:4, Informative)
Of course there is also the fact that when the blue collar jobs went away there were newer easier jobs to take their place. What exactly is replacing the white collar jobs ?
People worry when it effects them. The presidential campaigns hardly touched this issue even though some media outlets thought it would decide the election. Why wasnt it a major issue ? Because the average american has not yet felt the heat, only the tech sector and the aformentioned blue collar sector have had to feel the full brunt of this issue. This will be a much larger issue in the next two elections as china enters the fray and management level jobs start getting shipped out.
Re:Can't get my schadenfreude on. (Score:2, Interesting)
The reason the white-collar jobs are a bigger issue is because we spent TONS of money teaching Joe and Jane Factory worke
Look comrade.... (Score:3, Insightful)
The Indians are not stealing your jobs. US people in particular, and Western people in general, are pricing themselves too high given the expensive lifestyles they lead.
Which expensive lifestyles? SUVs, overeating, rampant consumerism, irrational Imperial wars in the other side of the planet. All tha adds up until your
Re:Look comrade.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Before I respond to the meat of your comment, I just wanted to say how impressed I am with your name calling. Very high minded of you.
Now, about that ignorance of open markets: please explain the whole "made in the USA" movement? By that I mean, some country was always undercutting the price of US products and services. Either clothes, cars, whatever. And yet apparently "ignorant" people made a conscious choice to buy from within their own community to support the local economy. So since when is that so wrong? Were you whining when Japan got bit by Americans deliberately buying Fords? Do you whine each time a country slaps a tariff on an import?
Of course it's an open market. That doesn't mean we slavishly, mindlessly uproot our economy when there are perfectly reasonable, time-tested ways of responding to it.
Really? Because I just got off the phone with an Indian providing tech support for my DSL. And it didn't sound like that horse was "fucking dead" as you so crudely put it. Instead, I had to repeat myself a dozen times, even spelling out simple words letter by letter. So how about this: I'll stop beating the dead horse when these call center employees can actually be competent on the phone. Mmmkay?
Re:Look comrade.... (Score:5, Insightful)
And who is at fault? The Indian, doing his job to the best of his (perhaps limited) ability, or the American company that hired the lowest cost call center with staff with minimal language skills?
Re:Look comrade.... (Score:2)
Which expensive lifestyles? SUVs, overeating, rampant consumerism, irrational Imperial wars in the other side of the planet. All tha adds up until your economy, or parts of it, become uncompetitive.
I'll won't comment on the Imperial wars, but as for the rest this is a "catch-22". If less things are bought there is less need for people to
Re:Look comrade.... (Score:5, Insightful)
the problem is that Americans REFUSE to pay what the product is actually worth.
Zenith and Curtis Mathis used to be the BEST televisions in america. They cost between 60 to 100% more than other brands and typically 200% more than import brands.
They both went out of business as american made televisions because Americans refused to pay for them. "Holy crap I can buy 3 sony's for the price of that curtis Mathis? gimme the Sony."
same went for other products. The last Power PC motherboard I purchased cost me $1295.00 and then I needed to buy a processor. 99% of americans will crap their pants at that and run off and buy an Asus for $125.00
my motherboard was Made in america by people that made a wage that allowed them to live and eat. not buy a group of people that were paid less for their week of pay that the janitor here get's paid in an hour.
Americans are not willing to pay $225,000.00 for their SUV, $5500.00 for their PC and $6.00 a gallon for gasoline.
Therefore to make the american consumer happy, third world countries make our products. They do not have to comply with the restrictive US pollution laws, labor laws, or other silly American laws that increase costs.
THAT is the reason. YOU your Neighbor and your family are the reason that jobs are moving overseas. Because you refuse to pay $7.25 for your american Beef Big Mac at mcdonalds, you refuse to pay for american made goods because they are significantly more expensive.
Re:Look comrade.... (Score:3, Funny)
How the hell are you determining how much these items are worth? You're just pulling numbers out of your ass.
Re:Can't get my schadenfreude on. (Score:5, Insightful)
(emphasis is mine)
What has the world come too, where we have to qualify that we don't like the idea of people dying - EVEN IF THEY ARE IN COMPETITION WITH US FOR JOBS!
I'm hardly a peace-loving, tree-huggin vegan. But this kind of stuff really makes me think that capitalism has really made a wrong turn somewhere. That and our values of course, but, I'm on slightly more shaky ground there.
Re:Can't get my schadenfreude on. (Score:2)
It was AMERICAN CEOs who chose to outsource nad are doing it more every day. The Indians simply took the work offered. To call it stealing is just stupid xenophobia. Place the blame where it belongs. If not India, it would have been some other country; Pakistan, Philippines, Russia, Poland, etc.
Re:The quantities of explosives is quite unbelieva (Score:2)
Re:WTF is an AK-56? (Score:3, Informative)
i think they mean a (Score:2)
No need to wait. (Score:2)
Re:DOH!!! (Score:2)
Imagine the better part of a companies data (backups and all) its employees and IT structure blown to smokey little bits and pieces. The term crippling blow comes to mind.
Of course I am sure they all have taken this into account, I mean it had to occur to them that there was a reason they were getting the service/labor so cheap. Or it didnt occur to them, and wont until some major US company goes kaput because of something like this, and t
Re:Control the Wahabis like we did the Stalinists (Score:5, Insightful)
Speaking on behalf of many people I'd like to say "Muh-wha???".
If overseas contractors that companies use so they don't have to pay Americans a living wage are worthy of our military support, why aren't they paying taxes for us to defend them? These terrorists get zero sympathy from me, but shouldn't we be putting our own house in order?
We just had the congress tell us that they can't raise minimum wage because it would hurt companies too much, so now you want the taxes of people working full time and living in poverty to go to the Indian government so that the jobs we lose to them will be safe? Did you forget we're already in the red paying for two wars? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?
Wahabi terrorists (Score:3, Insightful)
Fo an intro to Wahhabism that doesn't resort to conclusions like "nutballs" and "islamic nut cases", there's an article here [wikipedia.org] (probably with its own biases, but I found it more informative and it includes references.)
Re:Good old spin (Score:3, Insightful)
I think the numbers speak for them selves. 14 Saudi High jackers ; 0 Iraqi High Jackers and 0 WMD's found in Iraq.