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Television Media United States Your Rights Online

EFF: 48 Hours to Stop the Broadcast Flag 702

The Importance of writes "Think the Broadcast Flag is dead? EFF is warning that Hollywood is trying to sneak the broadcast flag into law as an amendment to a massive appropriations bill. 'If what we hear is true, the provision will be introduced before a subcommittee tomorrow and before the full appropriations committee on Thursday. That gives us 48 hours to stop it.' Action Alert here. List of Senator's phone numbers here."
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EFF: 48 Hours to Stop the Broadcast Flag

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  • BroadCast Flag (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Canadian_Daemon ( 642176 ) on Monday June 20, 2005 @09:15PM (#12868438)
    With the new CRIA law in Canada, and now the broadcast flag in America, it looks like the recording industry 'winning'. It's looks pretty bad for those fighting for digital rights.
  • by PipianJ ( 574459 ) on Monday June 20, 2005 @09:18PM (#12868465)
    As soon as it's a rider on an appropriations bill like this, the broadcast flag is a foregone conclusion. The committee probably won't even know what they're doing.

    The broadcast flag is here to stay, regardless of the EFF's "48 hours" claim.
  • by electrosoccertux ( 874415 ) on Monday June 20, 2005 @09:24PM (#12868500)
    So I'm not worried about it. I don't have any plans to get a Tivo so it doesn't really bother me. Besides, I think you can get around these by making your own Tivo. Maybe we could route just the video signal from the Tivo/device over to out TV capture card? I'd like to say "the people" will stand up for their rights when they want to, but "the people" are just too plain stupid. Kinda like the proles, they could get it done if they'd all rise up together, but they're all lazy, stupid, and shallow.
  • Re:Met a Bill I Like (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Monday June 20, 2005 @09:46PM (#12868631) Homepage Journal
    A popular demand from Republicans (when they had the White House, and a Democratic Congress) was a "line-item veto" power for the President. That's an end-run around not only these contrived, sneaky bundles, but also around the kind of Congressional compromises that are the only legislative tradition we've got. Instead, we need Congress to be accountable for all of these laws they pass. At the very least, as insane as it sounds, we need a mechanism to ensure that they even read the entire bill that they vote for, supposedly representing the millions of people in their state.

    Perhaps a good mechanism would be to require each bill to specify which paragraphs must be passed, itemized or by fraction, in order for the bill to pass. Then require each paragraph to be voted independently, then compared to the requirement, and enacted or discarded.

    That mechanism might lead to really long paragraphs, with bundled specifications too difficult to manage in legal disputes. We might be forcing the Judicial Branch to throw out these "gumbo laws" as unintelligible. But we've got to somehow force the issue. Congressmembers and lawyers have made a hash of our laws, and our indigestion is going to be forced out somehow. Better on them than on us.
  • by SeventyBang ( 858415 ) on Monday June 20, 2005 @09:53PM (#12868671)
    ...on one topic: permitting piggy-backing legislation on unrelated legislation. There were Congress Critters who actually added material to 9/11 bills because they knew it would be passed. If contenders for their offices don't point this stuff out, they deserve to lose and take a job working on a honey wagon: fringe benefit - all you can eat.

    The fact the Broadcast Flag has been inserted to another bill is an example of where someone needs to make a phone call to Guido and have him wait on a door step, ring the doorbell, and kneecap someone.

    Some are more adept at doing it than others. One good example is a former KKK member. That should provide enough information to forego the necessity of naming them. Some of the network reporters are good at presenting some of the larger garbage ammendments but they never say who actually added the material to the bill.
  • by ajs ( 35943 ) <{ajs} {at} {ajs.com}> on Monday June 20, 2005 @09:57PM (#12868692) Homepage Journal
    "For the record, the US is NOT a democracy."

    Hi, welcome to the 20th century... well, you're a bit late, but that's OK.

    Here in 20th-land we call any form of government where the people elect leaders, and where any citizen (with minimal restrictions, usually based on age, nation of origin, etc.) can campaign for those offices, a "democracy".

    Yes, this does NOT fit the classical definition, but since no one has founded a democracy in a VERY long time (arguably never), it's not going to be very confusing as we continue to use the new definition.

    If you're going to stamp your feet and hold your breath over it, you're really going to be unhappy, since most of the world started using the new definition [answers.com] (also, check out Wikipedia's excellent article on the topic of the modern usage of the word "democracy" [wikipedia.org]) at some point last century.
  • Why bother anymore? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Adult film producer ( 866485 ) <van@i2pmail.org> on Monday June 20, 2005 @09:58PM (#12868704)
    This not meant to be a flamebait but really, why not just let them have their way? Don't complain, just sit back and watch this circus sideshow.. one way or another they will win, even if it means bribing (Thats what it is, even though the media won't call it that) your elected politicians 15 times over. Bush wants to invade another country, spend another $800 billion, let him.. They want a few more religious whack jobs on the supreme court.. go ahead. Don't complain when politicians lie and it results in thousands of good men and women dying, just let it go by. Make note of it, thats all. Let these people run the country right into the ground.

    I for one hope they do. We need another revolution and complaining about tiny infractions like this story is just prolonging the inevitable.
  • by NShade ( 61868 ) on Monday June 20, 2005 @10:02PM (#12868726) Homepage
    I'll just turn the damn thing off. 64 channels of pure bullshit, the movies suck. Even the cooking shows are turning stupid.

    Indeed. I've been thinking of canceling my cable TV service (although not my cable modem, Broadband is Life ;) and this just pushes me closer to doing so.

    I have no interest in downloading or sharing TV shows, so if they are going to try and treat me like a criminal, I see no reason to watch their crap.
  • Re:Met a Bill I Like (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Monday June 20, 2005 @10:06PM (#12868748) Homepage Journal
    Which they currently do in secret, with side-deals and horsetrading they never have to justify to their constituency, let alone the public. So I specify how to enforce the scope. In another post in this thread, I suggest that Congress vote on each paragraph of a bill individually, with one mandatory paragraph specifying which paragraphs must pass for the bill to pass. Just because lawyers have made a mess of the system doesn't mean engineers can't patch it, including patching DoS holes in the lawmaking system itself. There's no end to the cat/mouse game, but the system is supposed to be an ongoing format for continual updating itself.
  • Re:heh (Score:3, Interesting)

    by AvitarX ( 172628 ) <me&brandywinehundred,org> on Monday June 20, 2005 @10:51PM (#12869008) Journal
    Wouldn't it be really great if compromises reached by representitives of different people could be undermined by the president. I was always hoping that the checks and balances could be removed from our system.

    As much as they are abused there is a reason many things can be put in a bill. It is so a consecion can be made to the other side and things can keep moving along.
  • Re:heh (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Nasarius ( 593729 ) on Monday June 20, 2005 @10:57PM (#12869045)
    Instead of a petition, what we really need is the ability to give the Presidential Office back line-item veto power. With that power, the President could happily strike out stupid attachments like these without being accused of holding back "important legislation".

    The line-item veto gives the President an insane amount of power that he, as chief executive, has no right to. Anyway, do you really think George Bush or Bill Clinton gives a crap about the broadcast flag? Hardly.

    A more realistic (and Constitutional!) solution could be reached if the House and/or Senate would amend their rules to disallow unrelated riders.

  • by johansalk ( 818687 ) on Monday June 20, 2005 @11:13PM (#12869126)
    And don't forget the "revolving door" process where a politician does a stint on the board of a corporation, get loaded with share options, go back to government and in government remains loyal to his massive share options. Cheney and Halliburton are such examples, and most of the Bush administration. There's yet another reason why those who often end up in Government are multi-millionaires despite being fuckalls in actual business and actual governments.
  • Let it pass (Score:2, Interesting)

    by oncebitten ( 893231 ) on Monday June 20, 2005 @11:21PM (#12869167)
    There's a reason Tivo's and VCRs are so popular. It's to time shift. People have other things to do with their lives than sit around and watch TV. The networks are just shooting themselves in the foot. Network evening news broadcasts are getting creamed because of cable news (which is essentially timeshifted news). The same will occur to their precious copyrighted content. Less people will watch, and advertising revnues/rates will go down.
  • by fermion ( 181285 ) on Monday June 20, 2005 @11:23PM (#12869183) Homepage Journal
    Why is this so important. I mean the TV people have been digging themselves into a hole for many years. At this point broadcast TV survives on low quality and cheap reality shows, and cable providers depend on the demagogues that demand Fox news. The number of people who actually watch TV, other than sports, who are increasingly eating up more of the remaining profits.

    I understand that for many the only hope of having a naked person in your bedroom, or any person outside of your immediate family, is the television, but that is no reason to waste time on this issue. It will not go away, and you will continue to loop the latest teen idol as they take off their clothes.

    What we are seeing here is a result of televisions main purpose, to deliver viewers to advertisers. With the VCR, and Tivo, and the net, fewer people are watching the ads. This makes TV increasingly irrelevant. To make matters worse, the increase image quality really has nothing to do with bringing viewers to the advertisers, yet cost money. Furthermore, as advertising wanes, DVD sales are becoming more important. The increased picture quality might reduce DVD sales.

    But given the general illiteracy and obesity of the American public, there is no better way to reach viewers than TV. Even the net requires to much interaction, and broadcast over the net is not yet practical. So TV cannot go away. So what we are going to see is what we are seeing now. People actively not buying the more expensive sets. People not buying the conversion unit because the useless extra hardware makes it too expensive. And ultimately no conversion happening because there are not enough eyeballs to make it worthwhile.

    In the end, the free market may very well save us. In this case the consumer has the ultimate power because without the consumer, the advertisers have no reason to pay for the TV. And how few viewers are going to be worthwhile.

    Or we could just chuck the whole TV thing and go read a book, or, if we want to watch sports, go to the local college.

  • by oncebitten ( 893231 ) on Monday June 20, 2005 @11:33PM (#12869227)
    Or better yet, buy 1 share of stock in the company that's doing something you feel is bad, attend the shareholder's meeting, and during the shareholder Q&A with the CEO, ask why your company (you are an owner as a shareholder) is pressuring this bad legislation.

    CEO's hate answering questions like that, especially with Wall Street listening. It might get something done, it might not, but you might find other shareholders (possibly with bigger clout) who share you view, and *are* in a position to do something.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 20, 2005 @11:40PM (#12869265)
    > Because in the mean time I have to foot the fucking $800b of my tax dollars to pay for the war.

    Dude, get over it. You're gonna foot the bill either way. Buy some shares in defence contractors (I made a 50% ROI in 2003) and get your tax dollars back.

    Tip for 2006: Companies that make surveillance equipment.

    I've been ten times happier since I got rid of my illusions. That bullshit about freedom? Democracy? Just like the antics of Paris Hilton, it's just prolefeed. Scrap it, get with your leaders' programme, and profit!

    Will it work long-term? If you're asking that, you're asking the wrong question. It doesn't matter. Your leaders will find a way out for themselves. They'll have to telegraph their moves well in advance. Follow.

    The proles? Let the fucking proles (whether they're of the Paris Hilton, Noam Chompsky, or the Rush Limbaugh variety) burn!

  • Re:I looked it up... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by QuantumG ( 50515 ) <qg@biodome.org> on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @12:49AM (#12869594) Homepage Journal
    Uhhh, there's these people called accountants who do these things called audits that ensure that donations and such are not in fact bribes. Whereas in the US campaign contributions often go straight into the pocket of the representative. Lemme give you some information that just might make your head spin. In Australia, you might give money to a political party to help them lobby so people vote for them and they might decide that there is no good way for them to spend that money to win the election. In that situation it is common for them to give the money back. Now tell me, does this ever happen in the US?
  • Re:The Final Nail (Score:2, Interesting)

    by fishbowl ( 7759 ) on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @01:06AM (#12869661)
    >The final nail in the coffin.

    Let it die. It might lead to people creating their own entertainment media. Which, of course, turns the equation on its head, as individuals who are content creators acquire whatever magic rights the entertainment industry chiefs presume are their exclusive domain.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @01:16AM (#12869702)
    This is one of the most insightful posts I have seen yet in this discussion. Yes! We should boycott companies that trample on our freedoms to "fair use" of their products.

    But should we boycott all of the media? I understand how buying their products just fills up their war chest, but I think that collectively and publically targeting a selection of specific movies, TV shows, etc., would be more effective. Hopefully this would focus the attention of the media and the public (not to mention activists) on individual events, instead of a diffuse campaign against everything the media touches.
  • Re:Why.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MagicM ( 85041 ) on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @09:12AM (#12871321)
    But if they do it frequently enough, and a "big stink" is raised frequently enough, eventually the ability for anyone to do it will be revoked. Right?

    (wishful thinking...)
  • by russotto ( 537200 ) on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @09:53AM (#12871659) Journal
    The system _is_ truly stable. It has adapted to every method for changing it by making those methods ineffective. After 220+ years, it has settled down to stasis; there is no longer any usable mechanism for change for the better.

    Voting doesn't help; you're voting for one member of the existing system, or another of the same, or you're voting for someone who can't win.

    Worse, if you DO manage to vote out the incumbent, the rules of the House and Senate assure he has no real influence until he's been around for a while and therefore has fully aligned his interests with those of the system.

    Letter-writing doesn't work -- such campaigns are often ignored, and those who prefer the status quo can and do mobilize their own campaigns.

    Demonstrations don't work. If they're peaceful, they're ignored. If they're violent, the side opposing the status quo gets blamed. If they're peaceful and too big to be ignored, agents provocateur ensure they become violent, thus discrediting them.

    Civil disobedience doesn't work; the penalties are too high, and once you've been convicted of a felony you've forfeited your political viability within the system -- as well as your chances of even making a decent living. Nobody cares if you're rotting in jail for violating an unjust law; you're just a criminal.

    Even bribery (legalized or otherwise) won't work. Those supporting the status quo have more money. And the campaign finance laws are set up (not coincidentally) to help out the incumbents; those who have the most to gain by maintaining the status quo.
  • by cjmnews ( 672731 ) <cjmnews@yahoo.com> on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @10:06AM (#12871768) Homepage
    1. The broadcast flag is intended for broadcasted content, e.g.: over an antenna. So it really affects only 15% of the market.
    2. The broadcast flag will NOT stop you from recording a show. Your VCR, TIVO, PVR, etc will still work. The uproar of not being able to time shift would be too great for them to kill it. (Obviously)
    3. The broadcast flag WILL stop you from being able to publish a broadcasted show over the Internet.
    4. The TV/Movie industry has methods to stop/track recordings from cable/satellite and their Internet transmissions. In some cases they are not using them, in others they are being developed.
    5. The broadcast flag already exists in the content, the legislation is intended to force the hardware to recognize it. Manufacturers can voluntarily act on it now if they choose. But why would you add a feature (raise cost) if you don't have to. Thus the legislation is needed to get the hardware to do what the TV/Movie industry wants.

    I don't care if it is implemented or not. Yes, I time shift continuously as my kids are not allowed to watch any night time TV. No, I don't get any TV or Movie content from the Internet. If I missed the show I missed it. I'll pick it up in reruns if it is important to me, which generally it is not.

    As for commercial skipping, studies have showed that people that fast forward through commercials have the same retention rate as people that watch them all. Now is this saying that people intelligent enough to program a recording device are smarter than those that can not? I don't know. It's all open to interpretation.
  • by dick johnson ( 660154 ) on Tuesday June 21, 2005 @11:37AM (#12872595)
    Actually, real American companies shuffle their assets to offshore companies, then declare bankruptcy.

    Next they void their retiree health benefits and offload employee pensions to the government.

    High-paying jobs remaining in the reorganized company are then sent off to another country where labor costs are lower.

    Finally, they give their CEO and Chairmen multimillion dollar golden parachutes.

    The CEOs ride off into the sunset as rich as can be. The employees are then sent off to work at fast food restaurants where they can rest easy knowing that at least they can be assured that they'll have social security when they get older...

    Oh yeah. Forget that last part.

He has not acquired a fortune; the fortune has acquired him. -- Bion

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