One Step Away from Changing Daylight Savings Time 898
An anonymous reader writes "Congressional leaders from both parties have signed off on a proposal that will change daylight savings time in the United States as early as this year. All that is left is a signoff by President Bush. If the proposed solution becomes law, DST will be extended two months, from March to November. With many IT applications relying on accurate time information and many having automatic adjustments for DST, how will the IT world handle this change? And with the proposal reportedly taking effect this year, is there enough time to implement change?"
Daylight Saving Time is a Joke... literally (Score:5, Informative)
However, an Englishman named William Willett (how can you take someone with that name seriously? Come on!) was apparently too dense to realize that Franklin was joking. Therefore, he thought it would be a novel idea to set clocks back for 20 minutes on each Sunday in April, and then turn them back on the Sundays in September. Eventually, daylight-saving time came to be as we now know it."
Taken from here [grinnell.edu]
Re:Why the IAFC is against the change (Score:3, Informative)
This recommendation should be changed to "Buy a new smoke detector that has long battery life; your old one may not even work properly anymore either. Then change the battery once a year."
-Z
Re:Rollback this. (Score:3, Informative)
Thing is, I think the point of this bill is to conserve energy dude...
Re:Billing rates are going up!!!! (Score:3, Informative)
Proper OSes run with the hardware clock set to UTC and
Zoneinfo (Score:2, Informative)
I believe libc/zoneinfo for Linux systems would be able to handle this well enough as there are provisions for changing dst settings without affecting time in the past. pwt (pacific war time) during WWII is a good example of this and zoneinfo handles it correctly.
Re:Linux will be updated faster. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Why the IAFC is against the change (Score:2, Informative)
Email: ac@slashdot.org
Pass: password
Re:Why the IAFC is against the change (Score:5, Informative)
Nonsense [standardtime.com]. Farmers are against daylight saving time because they do everything by the sun. They start when the sun rises, and stop when it goes down, regardless of what time it is. A clock that jumps back and forth twice a year is an unnecessary complication that forces them to juggle their schedule when delivering crops to clock-bound businesses. Daylight saving time was instituted regionally in WWI and then made national in WW2 as an energy saving scheme.
Re:This could be a Hallmark event (Score:3, Informative)
This was tried before! (Score:2, Informative)
Sweden did this a few years ago (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft changed it through some Windows patch, and *nix people tend to fix things themself
Farm based economy here we come! (Score:2, Informative)
That link needs registration-here's the story text (Score:1, Informative)
U.S. puts Canada in time crunch
American move will extend daylight time
Businesses fear being out of sync will cause chaos
TONY WONG AND SUSAN DELACOURT
STAFF REPORTERS
Canadian business leaders fear major economic disruption if this country does not get in step with an American move to extend daylight saving time.
Yesterday, the U.S. Congress quietly adopted a provision to extend daylight hours by two months after proponents argued the scheme would help curb energy use by cutting back on the need for artificial light in the evening. Under the legislation, part of a sweeping energy package, daylight saving time across most of the United States will now start on the first weekend in March and run through the last weekend in November. Daylight time now runs from April through October in Canada and the U.S.
"There is potential for huge confusion here, and we need to be vigilant, to look at the range of implications," said Len Crispino, president and CEO of the Ontario Chamber of Commerce.
The change, expected to take effect this fall, would mean clocks in Canada and the United States would be out of sync in March and November, causing scheduling headaches for travellers and TV viewers.
And should Canada decide to follow the American lead, farmers and rural schoolchildren, who already get up in the dark, would face even gloomier mornings.
But as things now stand, the implications for business are serious because the economies of the two countries are so integrated, said Crispino.
Businesses such as airlines, transportation and even Ontario's auto sector could be affected, since many automotive manufacturers use "just in time" delivery systems to get car parts to plants, Crispino said. And the Toronto Stock Exchange, for instance, would open and close one hour after New York's markets.
While business is waking up to the risk, the issue seems to have sneaked under the political radar in Canada. "This has not been an issue that Canadians have debated at any length," Prime Minister Paul Martin's spokesperson Scott Reid said yesterday.
"We'll monitor how the issue unfolds in the Congress with an eye to implications for Canadians and our industry. While most people -- excepting vampires -- favour more daylight there are serious issues of concern to the aviation and other industries."
(The Canadian Press reported this afternoon that Premier Dalton McGuinty says the province doesn't want difficulties with its main trading partner, but there are business, environment and social issues to consider before the province follows suit.
( "What are the environmental ups and downs of this? What are the business pros and cons? And then what about life for families? Does it make it more or less difficult?" McGuinty said.
( "We're going to have to take a look at it obviously. We're not anxious to have a disconnect between us and our chief trading partner.")
The Prime Minister's Office was still trying to figure out yesterday which department or minister would be most concerned about the time discrepancy.
In fact, though many Canadians may think we're overgoverned, the potentially significant matter of who goes along with daylight time -- moving the clock ahead an hour in the spring and back an hour in the fall -- is largely left up to individual provinces, even to local municipalities, mostly on a voluntary basis. Saskatchewan, for instance, has always been a daylight time holdout, as have several communities in British Columbia and northern Quebec.
While Crispino agrees the move to extend daylight hours could lead to energy savings, his bigger concern is the additional costs for business.
Gillian Bentley, spokesperson for Calgary-based WestJet airlines, said the time change could be problematic for the carrier, especially for passengers on connecting flights, or if the airline flies into airports with night curfews.
"Obviously we would have to adjust our sch
Good Christ (Score:5, Informative)
Wow, it's pedant day on slashdot! The point, Captain Obvious, is to provide the most daylight during waking hours for the average diurnal person.
Re:Why the IAFC is against the change (Score:1, Informative)
Europe doesn't do DST the same time we do either but we seem to get by ok--of course, no-one really cares about Europe.
So while it would be somewhat confusing, it doesn't really matter. If Canadians feel it's being "rammed down their throat", you guys need to grow a pair and stand up and make sure your voice is heard on such a critical matter of pride for you guys.
Re:This could be a Hallmark event (Score:3, Informative)
Lies! here in Canada, its in September as well.
I think Canada should follow Saskatchewan's lead (Score:5, Informative)
I don't live all that far north--maybe around 300km north of the 49th parallel. Even after you set your clock ahead the sun rises before 7AM--right now it rises here before 6AM. In Saskatoon (they do not change their clocks) it'll get light at 5AM...in either case I'll still be asleep for another 30-90 minutes so I'm not going to care.
Where DST REALLY peeves me off is at bedtime. I have to rise by 7AM so I like to be in bed by 11PM...but it's DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME so its still F'in light outside! Let it get dark before 11PM please--thanks but I don't need any more day--it is long enough. A lot of people in fairly norhtern cities like Edmonton will thank you--and people in Whitehorse and Yellowknife won't even notice the difference since the sun won't set again for another few weeks anyways.
So here is what I think Canada should do: Instead of all the expense and confusion around changing DST, or the similar confusion around keeping it the way we have it when the US will be different, we should just go to standard time and STAY there at the point when the US changed their DST. Sure we will still be different from the US, but it'll be the least painful solution because:
* Even though we'll be out of sync with the US we won't have people getting confused when the US TV programmes remind people to change the clock at a different time than Canadians would have to.
* There is data suggesting that the loss of sleep on the first Sunday of April due to DST is responsible for increasing the number of injury and fatality accidents on the following Monday. Abolishing DST would eliminate that risk.
* Since there are already parts of the world that do not do DST all current electronics and computers support NOT adjusting the clocks. Changing DST would be expensive because all those systems would need to change too.
* It'll finally be dark enough to fall asleep at night in the summer!
I've always thought that DST was backwards anyways--if we moved ahead for the winter then it wouldn't be pitch black by dinner time--it would be totally dark at 7PM instead of 6. I dunno...the whole concept of DST doesn't seem worth it at all to me anyways.
Re:It's DayLIGHT savings time. (Score:3, Informative)
If by tiny you mean up to 34% [worldwatch.org]. Most figures I've heard suggest around 20% though, plus another 5% accounting for the need to run cooling systems to counteract the heat of the lighting systems. Of course, it's more significant to talk about this in quantitative rather than relative terms - so out of the 3,858 terawatt-hours consumed in 2003, that would be between 900 to 1300 terawatt-hours per year. And growing.
Personally, I think thats a rather significant figure.
Indeed, turning the lights off when you don't need them and using more efficient lighting saves a great deal of energy, particularly in commercial operations. Low surface-to-volume ratio and all. But for home use, daylight counts for a lot.
As for oil, mining operations for coal or nuclear fuel and virtually all small-scale generators run on it. The cost of oil also has an indirect effect on the cost of other fuels by making them more attractive for certain applications and allowing them to charge a steeper price.
Australia already did this... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Sweden did this a few years ago (Score:5, Informative)
Sweden is a poor choice for an example as they seem to be able to do these things better than most countries. Heck, they switched from driving on the left to driving on the right in 1967 and there were no big problems!
Woot! I'm In Arizona (Score:1, Informative)
To put things in perspective (Score:2, Informative)
Re:This is spectacular (Score:2, Informative)
The calendar actually has exactly nothing to do with when Jesus died. It's all about when he was born ("Anno Domini" means "In the year of the Lord").
Of course, things are confused a bit by the fact that the monk who figured it out in the first place got it wrong by a few years; Jesus was born somewhere between 8 BC and 4 BC rather than AD 1.
Re:Sweden did this a few years ago (Score:4, Informative)
Re:This could be a Hallmark event (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Why the IAFC is against the change (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Horrible from a Jewish perspective (Score:5, Informative)
you wrote "I consider all religions to be completely and obviously false, therefore all religions are cults."
The flaw in your reasoning is readily apparent: just because you can't or won't understand something doesn't mean that it's false.
Point two is the charismatic religious leader: while many Christian and Islamic denominations have charismatic leaders, very few Rabbis are described as charismatic. Further, Rabbi = "teacher" i.e. someone who has studied a lot about Jewish law, ritual, and philosophy. Not an intercessor before God, not someone who is especially holy, or anything of the sort.
Let's return to the dictionary, shall we?
charisma 1. A rare personal quality attributed to leaders who arouse fervent popular devotion and enthusiasm.
2. Personal magnetism or charm: a television news program famed for the charisma of its anchors.
3. (Christianity). An extraordinary power, such as the ability to perform miracles, granted by the Holy Spirit.
Clearly, the word "charismatic" is not meant to apply to God.
Now, "brainwashing"... sheesh... what exactly would you consider the difference between "brainwashing" and "educating"? Whether the subject of the education is one of which you approve, I presume. Feel free to correct me if you have a more precise definition, although it sounds like you're using malapropisms merely to attempt to offend.
Please, if you're going to play the part of the angry Athiest (doesn't that get old after a while?), there are arguments against various and sundry religious beliefs which don't require torturing the English language. Feel free to try them. I'll assume you've read Russell's Why I am not a Christian? His arguments, while easily refuted, are civil and the model of appropriate use of language and rhetoric.
Otherwise it's just trolling...
I find it interesting that your signature is from PKD's Valis - are you at all familiar with his theology?
Re:Shouldn't be a big deal under *nix (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why the IAFC is against the change (Score:5, Informative)
I could not have said it better myself. I live in Wisconsin (about the size of Germany) and the changes even within the state are amazing. For example, the opening day of deer hunting season might as well be a holiday. In the North where I am attending college, everyone leaves and hunts with their friends, family, ect. I am from Southern Wisconsin where hunting is not as popular mainly due to the environment. Southern Wisconsin is farmland for the most part. Forests are few and far between.
It may sound weird but I experienced culture shock my first year at college. I came from a high school that was racially diverse, with a 30% African-American and a 15% Hispanic student body. Spanish, German, Latin, and French were offered. I took Spanish for two years. Most people didn't take a foreign language because chances are they won't live or do business in a foreign country.
When I arrived at college it was weird because the campus was 96% white. I myself come from a German background but never looked at myself as being white. The weather was also much different. In the winter, the temp. never got above 25 F. It was usually around 0. In Southern Wisconsin, winter temps. rarely went below 20 F. When it went below zero school was usually cancelled. Up North when it went below zero, put on extra clothes. The student parking lots have electrical outlets so you can plug in your engine block heater. As a Freshman I arrived in August when the weather was warm. I wondered what the hell the outlets were for. I realized what they were for when winter arrived. Before leaving for Christmas break I decided to warm up my car. It was -25 F outside. My car wouldn't turn over. I got a jump from someone and amazinly the car started, and ran for 45 seconds before the block cracked.
So what's my point. Do I have a point? As a matter of fact I do.
The United States might as well be called the United Countries. Every State has different standards, practices, cultures, ect. Within the States there are hundrends if not thousands of microcosms. It is relatively easy for one to say that European schools are better because they teach more languages at younger ages. The fact is they have to. Look at the geography. In an area roughly the size of the US English, French, Spanish, Italian, and German are spoken. A trip between France and Spain is like a trip for me between Wisconsin and Kansas. Europeans must learn multiple languages to be successful. In the US we only need to teach our children how to work long hours with no overtime. (From personal experience.) Languages other than English are not seen as important however this is starting to change in the Southern US.
Re:The major issue (Score:1, Informative)
- how a time is input;
- how a time is output; and
- how a time is stored.
Dealing with the last first, always store your times in UTC (GMT) form. That way, any comparisons with any other time do not have to consider time zones. Everything is normalised to UTC and life becomes simple.
When time is input you can either: (i) input the time in its UTC form; or (ii) input it in its local time. If the local time is ambiguious (as you cited) then the widget will normally assume the earlier time. If it is critical that there is no ambiguity then disallow local time input: force the entry of UTC time. Note however, that you're probably only going to get ambiguity for a very small percentage of data entry (between 1am and 2am in the case of Oz). Whether this is acceptable or not depends on your application (you could even trap the ambiguity and ask the user to resolve it).
When time is output it will be possible to again have ambiguity but, technically, the output is still correct. If you need to make a comparison of the time in the output then use the UTC form (as in the way the time is stored).
Re:You know your government is out of control.... (Score:2, Informative)
Not really. The location of GMT was chosen so that the meridian opposite to it would go through the least inhabited region (namely the pacific ocean). Indeed, that meridian is the so-called dateline [wikipedia.org], and you don't really want to have a situation where in one village it's Wednesday, but in the neighboring village it's still Tuesday. So you put the dateline into the middle of the ocean, and you end up with Prime Meridian [wikipedia.org] going through Britain.
Re:This could be a Hallmark event (Score:2, Informative)
As much as some folks resent unions today, they did play an integral role in the worker's rights we now enjoy, and so we made a holiday about it - sort of like MLK.
It is interesting, however, that the US moved away from May 1st, or "May day", the labor holiday in most of Europe. Many people suspect this was because of the more radical union politics associated with "May Day" i.e. riots, strikes, the IWW etc.