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United States Science Technology

Extra Daylight Savings May Confuse the Gadgets 933

CrimeDoggy writes "In the energy bill to be signed by the President today (August 8), changes are to be made that extend daylight savings time. The bill would start daylight time three weeks earlier and end it a week later as an energy-saving measure. Many devices such as VCRs, cell phones, and watches would still operate on the previous schedule, potentially causing problems."
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Extra Daylight Savings May Confuse the Gadgets

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  • Living in AZ (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DigiWood ( 311681 ) on Monday August 08, 2005 @02:45PM (#13271840)
    ...I don't have to bother with daylight savings. The heat sucks but hey it's a tradeoff.
  • by Peyna ( 14792 ) on Monday August 08, 2005 @02:46PM (#13271854) Homepage
    Swatch started such an initiative a couple years ago.

    Internet Time [wikipedia.org]

  • by Nos. ( 179609 ) <andrew@th[ ]rrs.ca ['eke' in gap]> on Monday August 08, 2005 @02:48PM (#13271900) Homepage
    Move somewhere that doesn't use DST. I live in Saskatchewan (Canada). The time here is GMT -06:00, all year round.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 08, 2005 @02:51PM (#13271945)
    That doesn't change a thing. Today primetime television starts at the same time everywhere, not because it's the same number on the clock but it's the same time of day. If everyone observed GMT, then primetime would start at different hours on the east coast, central and west coast. Everything would be at different times, of course. Someone in NY wouldn't know if it is ok to call someone in LA at 0:00 any more than he knows know if it's ok to call at 8pm. Around the world different things happen at the same time. You'd also still have a rather arbitrary date border where time would change by 24 hours just because you crossed an invisible line in the ocean.

    The one thing which I am strongly in favor of is to put an end to daylight savings time. That is an entirely unnecessary and provably not energy conserving complexity which sounded like a nice idea but isn't.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 08, 2005 @03:05PM (#13272117)
    [Removes tin foil hat.]

    What if the whole "this will save power" is just an excuse? Isn't 2007 when we are supposed to be switching to all digital broadcasts and isn't the broadcast flag supposed to be coming out around then (if Congress passes it since its out of the domain of the FCC now)? What is this is all a ploy to irritate people because their VCR's (which they don't use much anyway, anymore) and TV's are out of synch for a few weeks, so they have to go out and buy new equipment? I'm sure most people won't care, but this might be one little more annoyance that would push Joe Q. User to upgrade his equipment, and further lock himself into the media conglomerates will?

    [Puts on tin foil hat.]
  • by croddy ( 659025 ) on Monday August 08, 2005 @03:06PM (#13272126)
    The only way that right-hand drive makes sense is if most people are left-handed.

    I, for one, prefer to shift gears with my right hand.

  • Re:Moral travesty (Score:4, Interesting)

    by legirons ( 809082 ) on Monday August 08, 2005 @03:07PM (#13272138)
    "Daylight savings time is an idiotic solution to a non-existent problem."

    And while every other aspect of the gregorian calendar can be described in just a few lines of code, the daylight-savings time requires a 450KB database [twinsun.com] just to find out which timezone you're in, with entries like "during the second world war, London experimented with double daylight-savings time..." (admittedly most of that 450K is comments)
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 08, 2005 @03:11PM (#13272181)
    Time is clearly not meant to be decimal-based. You can of course separate a day into arbitrarily many sections and call these sections anything you like. A 1000 wobbles per day perhaps. The bigger units of time are the real problem: The year can not be described by an integer number of days. If you don't want to do away with months, these are based on the moon and the only way to have an integer number of months per year is to not have them be precisely synced to the moon phase. Then you have the problem that a reasonable good approximation of the moon phase leads to a number of days by which the number of days per year isn't divisible, so you get months with more days and months with fewer days by dithering the error over the year. It's really hopeless, in terms of numerical elegance.

    60 and 24 at least have some nice numerical properties:

    60 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15 and 30.

    24 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 6, 8 and 12.

    Try that with 100: 2, 4, 5, 10, 20, 25 and 50. Much less flexible.
  • by spun ( 1352 ) * <loverevolutionary@@@yahoo...com> on Monday August 08, 2005 @03:11PM (#13272183) Journal
    New Mexico has DST. Arizona is weird, though. The state doesn't have it, but the Navajo reservation which takes up the northeastern corner of the state does. Even more confusing, there is a Hopi reservation entirely inside the Navajo reservation that doesn't, and another tiny Navajo reservation entirely inside the Hopi reservation that does. You could very well have to change your clock seven times just travelling in a straight east-west line across the state.
  • by operagost ( 62405 ) on Monday August 08, 2005 @03:12PM (#13272194) Homepage Journal
    You must be new here!
  • Re:Why? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Aidtopia ( 667351 ) on Monday August 08, 2005 @03:16PM (#13272248) Homepage Journal
    I'm still waiting for someone to point out a really good reason why we need DST.

    There are several studies that show Daylight Saving time saves lives (pedestrians and automobile traffic), reduces violent crime, and saves electricity.

    Here's one example. [hoosierdaylight.com]
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 08, 2005 @03:29PM (#13272391)
    Zones don't make this any easier. It's just a popular myth. I am currently in the BST timezone, at what times, UTC can you call me at work? Make sure you use your clever "timezones" to get it right, because if you have to _ask_ me then you've disproved your point

    We used to have a different time in every town, because each town would set its church or town hall clock separately and people would set smaller clocks by observing the large ones. Efficient transport and telecommunications got rid of that idea, but in the process people moaned endlessly that it would upset things.

    Then countries each had their own time standard. You'd travel due south for a few hours and find that time had changed by fiat because you'd entered a foreign country. Again people said that fixing it would cause confusion and it was a waste of time to try... but look where we are now.

    In the larger scheme of things time is not absolute and allowances must be made. But on a small piece of rock floating in space it's stupid to create multiple "zones" of time and separately maintain them. Of course most Americans are asleep when the French wake up for work, and so what? Should lazy people have a separate timezone? Should +1 offset TV channels show a clock that's an hour behind everything else? Of course not. One planet, one time.
  • by Peyna ( 14792 ) on Monday August 08, 2005 @03:54PM (#13272647) Homepage
    May I also add that extending Daylight Saving Time even farther into the fall is a bad idea(tm). I work at an elementary school. The kids tend to show up between 8:30 and 9:00 am. Understandard time in November, the sun has been up for maybe 40 minutes by the time they get here. Extending Daylight Saving Time even further means that they will be walking to school in the dark, which just seems like bad policy to me. Furthermore, I bike to work at about 7:00. I really don't like being on the road when it is very dark, which it can be at 7:00. It will be even worse with more DST.

    Here in Dayton, Ohio, we're almost as far west as you can get in EDT (not including Michigan and half Kentucky.

    The last school day that will be during DST in 2006 will be November 17th. Twilight will begin at 7:55 am, the sun will rise at 8:24 am, noon will be at 1:22 pm, and the sun will set at 5:20 pm.

    Without DST, the same day would be sun rise at 7:24 am, noon at 12:22 pm, sunset at 4:20 pm.

    When the kids go back to school on January 4th, without DST, the sun will rise at 7:58 am, noon at 12:42 pm, sunset at 5:25 pm.

    I don't see it being that much of a difference. And actually, without DST, with the sun setting at 4:20 pm, you probably have some kids going home in the dark. Especially if they're in after school activities (something which I'm sure being a fan of doing things "for the children" you will support).

    So they either go to school in the dark in the morning, or they come home in the dark at night.

  • by william_w_bush ( 817571 ) on Monday August 08, 2005 @03:55PM (#13272664)
    base 4. started using base 4 math in my head as an experiment a few years ago, so much easier, makes hex trivial. all addition has 4 possibilities, add quarter, add half, add 3/4 or shift up. the human brain is better at thinking in quarters than percents or 1/8'ths or 1/60's, whatever. seriously try it, takes like a day to figure out, and you can upconvert to hex by just grouping digits on top of each other
    ex.
                  0 3
    2f = 2 3

    just my 2c, but made math hella easier, and helps even more with higher dimensional math because you can visualize and manipulate halves and quarters much better than 2/5 and 7/10.
  • by sholden ( 12227 ) on Monday August 08, 2005 @03:56PM (#13272665) Homepage

    It can be hard to justify a the cost of a $3.00 spiral to a $0.50 incandescent bulb, though. Mine have been going strong for 2 years now, rather than replacing them every 6 months or so.


    Only another year and you'll break even...

    Ignoring the energy costs of course :)
  • by standards ( 461431 ) on Monday August 08, 2005 @04:26PM (#13272965)
    Ah! You're missing the point of this law! The point isn't saving energy. The point is increasing RETAIL SHOPPING HOURS.

    As a large retailer, we know that core shopping happens during daylight hours. As the sun sets, people start clearing out of the retail stores.

    In most parts of the country, retail stores open at a fixed time, either 9AM (or 10AM in some areas). Almost no stores open at "sunrise".

      Therefore, core shopping hours are from a 9AM until sunset. Maybe the store is open until 9 PM, but in general shopping activity slows way down at sunset. This is just a known fact in the retail industry.

    By changing the clock, sunset can happen later relative to clock time. Therefore, if we add a month of DST, we add about 30 hours of prime-time shopping to our annual retail calendar!

    To a retailer, this is huge news - this is almost like adding 3+ full shopping days to our calendar at almost zero cost.

    My management was amazingly happy by this rule change.
  • Re:Moral travesty (Score:2, Interesting)

    by wasted time ( 891410 ) on Monday August 08, 2005 @05:25PM (#13273589)
    People also are even happier and more productive with a two to four hour nap in the afternoon. Where's that legislation is what I want to know.

    Heh. My last employer offered flexible scheduling. We could work a 8-hour day anywhere between the hours of 6am and 7pm, with our supervisors prior approval. One of my coworkers decided this was a great idea and submitted a request to change his schedule to 7-7. When our boss ponted out that he was requesting a 12 workday, the guy replied with a dead serious, "yeah, I know. I plan to take a 3 hour nap after lunch everyday." Come to find out, he was also a DJ for a AM station and worked 11pm-3am several nights a week.

    I already worked a 10-11 hour day, so I should have just closed the door and napped anyway.
  • by Feanturi ( 99866 ) on Monday August 08, 2005 @08:31PM (#13274983)
    Silly mods. This shouldn't have been modded 'Funny' but 'Informative' See here:

    http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/driving%20o n%20the%20left.htm [pandora.be]

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