FedEx Cracks Down on Box Furniture, Citing DMCA 778
nospmiS remoH writes "Wired is running an article about a guy with no money making furniture out of FedEx boxes. If that weren't strange enough, FedEx is going after him, legally citing the DMCA. Yes, the DMCA. Apparently they are not upset about the furniture itself but rather this site that he put up with pictures of his creations (pretty good work really). My favorite quote from the article, '...Avila clearly intended to operate a business from his website because he used the .com domain suffix, the "commercial level domain," rather than .net.' You just can't make this stuff up."
Free Boxes (Score:5, Informative)
Free Boxes from UPS & FedEx (Score:4, Informative)
UPS, especicially. You can get huge "25KG" boxes intended for international shipping. I have UPS drop these on my doorstep every time I move, all for free.
Re:Trademark yes, copyright no (Score:5, Informative)
He is doing neither, so FedEX really is just strongarming this guy because he dared to abuse their free boxes.
Re:Free Boxes (Score:5, Informative)
http://shop.usps.com/cgi-bin/vsbv/postal_store_no
Full mirror here (Score:5, Informative)
Mirror [networkmirror.com].
I bet wired.com can handle the traffic (Score:2, Informative)
http://wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,68492,00.htm
Re:It does sound silly, but... (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, so they don't like it... they probably don't like other people using competitors like UPS or Purolator, but that's part of doing business... and it's no grounds for legal action at all.
Re:Free Boxes from UPS & FedEx (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Even better! (Score:5, Informative)
Seriously, UPS has the worst track record in package handling. One time I was looking for a job during college.. I went to UPS and they took us on a tour of their package handling facilities. You will never want to be a customer of UPS after you tour their facilities. They don't care about your package. The people who work there have to work their "packages per hour" number.. if they get too low, they get fired, so quality/careful handling doesn't simply exist at UPS.
Re:Free Boxes (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Even better! (Score:5, Informative)
And at 9.50/hour in 95 degree heat inside the warehouse, the condition of your package is the least of my concerns.
For those considering a career at UPS: please first consider dealing smack or pimping out underaged runaways. It's a good deal more fulfilling.
Re:It's all about shutting down the site. (Score:4, Informative)
It's called a SLAPP lawsuit. A Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation.
Basically, using the courts to shut people up, intimidate them or harass them, without needing to win, or suing somebody for revenge after they divulged something you didn't want divulged, is a SLAPP.
There are penalties for SLAPP lawsuits.
This is almost certainly one. What they would be suing for if they were serious, is the use of the URL and trade name for FEDEXFURNITURE dot com.
Especially since the guy colored FedEx the red and blue colors like the FedEx logo.
Basically he could have said Shipping Container furniture all he wanted, but by naming his site fedexfurniture.com he is using their name.
However, if FedEx hasn't trademarked that name for use in the furniture industry, I'd say they're SOL.
Well, except that he is stealing his materials from their company.
Re:This is why FedEx filed the lawsuit (Score:5, Informative)
So, what legal leg does FedEx hope to stand on? They offered to send these boxes to people for free. Yes, they were intended for shipping, but there was no agreement made that says "You must ship with us with these supplies." End result? FedEx is going to lose this one. They offered free supplies, and someone took'm.
Re:Free Boxes from UPS & FedEx (Score:3, Informative)
That being said, there are numerous free sources of boxes. Just ask any local retail shop what they do with their shipment boxes. At my old store we got several boxes each week which were recycled, unless I took them.
Re:Even better! (Score:3, Informative)
Something like this eh ?
http://www.spikedhumor.com/Article.aspx?id=767 [spikedhumor.com]
Your thinking is wrong (Score:2, Informative)
I saw this quite a while ago on treehugger.com check out http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/06/fedex_furn iture.php [treehugger.com]
This guy did not "take new" fedex boxes from fedex. He used previously discarded boxes. On other-words ultra-minimal impact on the environment.
For more info: http://freegan.info/ [freegan.info]
Two Weeks ago? (Score:2, Informative)
"Over two weeks ago, FedEx improperly used the DMCA notice and take-down provisions to get the website at www.fedexfurniture.com taken offline. The company claimed trademark infringement and conversion, neither of which allow it to take advantage of the powerful remedy provided under the DMCA."... http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/ [stanford.edu]
Re:This is why FedEx filed the lawsuit (Score:3, Informative)
Here's the thing. You're wrong. circumvention of copyprotection devices is but one section of the DMCA. There are others. Try reading it sometime. You might be surprised at how little you learn from
Re:Free Boxes (Score:5, Informative)
In 1976 the Postal Service filed its first annual comprehensive statement to comply with an amendment to the 1970 Postal Reorganization Act. The amendment, now codified as Title 39, United States Code (USC), Section 2401 (e), required that a comprehensive statement accompany the annual Postal Service budget submission to Congress. The amendment further required the Postal Service to explain and address 1) the plans, policies, and procedures designed to comply with the statutory mission of the Postal Service; 2) general postal operations, including data on service standards, mail volume, productivity, trends in postal operations, and analyses of the impact of internal and external factors upon the Postal Service; 3) financial information relating to expenditures and obligations incurred; and 4) other matters necessary to ensure that Congress is "fully and currently consulted and informed on postal operations."
From Wikipedia:
"The United States Postal Service (USPS) is the United States government-owned corporation...".
So maybe they are technically no longer a branch of the govt, but they certainly are wholly owned by it, which sounds to me like they are still run by the government. You'll also remember that the USPS can't raise postal rates without congressional approval either.
And from a Priority Mail box I have:
"This packaging is the property of the U.S. Postal Service and is provided solely for use in sending Priority Mail. Misuse may be a violation of Federal law."
Betcha won't find that on a private corporation's packages...
Re:The catch? Those aren't your USPS boxes! (Score:3, Informative)
-Jason
Re:Free Boxes (Score:5, Informative)
US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8:
Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
Yup, it's in there.
Grow up (Score:1, Informative)
I'm not even going to bother with the fact that the USPS has been spun off and independent for years, but lets go right to the federal offense part. I'm not quite sure what you think you mean by "offense", but if you mean federal crime, that is dead wrong. Congress passes the laws that spell out federal crimes, some low level clerk writing stuff on boxes does not define laws. Maybe there is such an insane law, but without actual reference to it I'll assume there is not and live without fear of discarding a USPS shipping envelope unused.
Re:Oooh, they wrote a *Letter*? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Free Boxes (Score:4, Informative)
So I go online on usps.com and order 40 of the boxes I thought I needed. Except, of course, I am an idiot, so I ended up ordering 40 box of 10, thus 400 boxes. I felt like an ass, not so much because of the free boxes (I have actually used well over half of them so far for mailing) but because I my postman is a cool guy and the thought of him with 40 boxes of boxes....
A good reason to have anything bought on Ebay etc shipped by USPS- if it turns out to be counterfit, call the US Postal Inspection Service. They don't take kindly to misuse of the mail. UPS and FedEx don't have sworn federal agents with guns to investigate fake products sent theough their delivery channels....
Re:Trademark yes, copyright no (Score:3, Informative)
I should copyright a sentence fragment on my site, and then sue everybody who says it for illegally redistributing my original work.
Well, you could, if you could show that that sentence was sufficiently original and creative, but it ain't easy. For example IIRC, story titles are seldom held to be copyrightable. I could write a short story called, "The Geek", and if you later wrote a different story with the same title, I wouldn't necessarily be able to prove you copied me. However, in rare instances you can; IIRC Harlan Ellison successfully sued over the title to his story "I Have No Mouth But I Must Scream." So, maybe I'd better call that story "On Improving the Reproductive Prospects of a Socially Inept Geek".
Art, of course, is copyrightable. Package designs are an interesting case, because they include both elements of art and trade mark. Yet , copyright is a strange concept to be using here. I guess they're saying by taking photos of the their boxes, this guy is illegally copying, as if he went to a museum and took a picture of an Ansel Adams photo and started selling it. But if there's any justice at all, somebody will take this case pro bono out of sheer cussedness and get this argument thrashed and jeered out of court as it roundly deserves to be. People don't buy Fed Ex boses for the wonderful art. The art has no value to them, but it has great value to Fed Ex -- as a trade mark. That's after all what they're upset about (stupidly if you ask me -- I'd be sending this guy free boxes!)
Copyright is exactly that: the right to copy. It in general does not give an author power over how somebody else uses his work, unless he is able to sell it as part of a license deal. And that's harder than it looks. I've actually seen late 19th century books with licenses printed inside the front covers that forbade reselling or lending. These licenses were deservedly ignored, and ultimately proved legally useless.
Trademark on the other hand, is in some ways much more powerful. The rights you have over your trademark include precluding uses that harm the trademark's value. That's exactly what the concern is here, and they should come out and say it and use the right law. Its a terrible disservice to societ to use laws creatively this way.
This is yet another example of how the DMCA is a terrible
TLD misuse (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Free Boxes (Score:3, Informative)
I Call Shenanigans. (Score:1, Informative)
The only catch is that the boxes have Priority Mail designs on their exterior. This means that, if you ship those boxes via the Postal Service, you have to pay the Priority Mail rate -- as opposed to cheaper rates like First Class (depending on weight) or Media Mail. However, you can easily evade this design with a few moments' patience and some duct tape: Simply tape up the box so that no design is visible.
Having said all that, I have ordered these boxes specifically to pack items when moving out of an apartment. There isn't any agreement or contract such as the parent describes.
Re:I Call Shenanigans. (Score:3, Informative)
Or if you get the ones that you have to fold/assemble yourself, just make them inside-out, giving you a nice plain brown or white box.
Re:while tenuous (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Even better! (Score:2, Informative)
Whoever modded this up needs should have their points taken away.
I have mod points but instead of modding you down I'd rather say this:
I worked at UPS while going to collage and all I can say is that it was the best part-time job I ever had. I worked there for over 4 years and was making $12.50 an hour by the time I left.
In addition to having a great pay, I also received full-time benefits! Plus if I wanted to continue my job at UPS there was the option to become a driver. Yes, it's hard manual labor but pay is great.
I worked in the Henrietta, NY warehouse where the summers are 95% humidity, 90 degrees and the winters get to 0 degrees.
So suck it up! It's manual labor! If you're too much of a wuss to handle hard labor then stay with a desk job.
BTW, I left UPS to start a career in IT in the Bay Area and that's where I am today.
Thank you UPS for giving my the cash to move out here!
Re:This is why FedEx filed the lawsuit (Score:4, Informative)
Anticircumvention is only a part of the DMCA. [wikipedia.org] FedEx tried to invoke 'notice and takedown' (see title II in the linked article).
Re:It's all about shutting down the site. (Score:3, Informative)
However, instead of UPS, which charges and arm and a leg to ship, try using DHL (Formerly known as Airborne Express) - they are usually at least a day or two faster than UPS and 1/3 to 1/2 the cost.
Plus they are a cool yellow and red, not poop brown.
Re: Commercial = .net (Score:2, Informative)
According to RFC 920 -- Domain Requirements (1984):
"The initial top level domain names are:
COM = Commercial, any commercial related domains meeting the second level requirements..."
According to RFC1591 -- Domain Name System Structure and Delegation (1994) :
"COM - This domain is intended for commercial entities, that is companies..."
Also, regarding
"NET - This domain is intended to hold only the computers of network providers..."
Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)
Why "intellectual property" conflates. (Score:3, Informative)
From the article:
A good time to remind us of why RMS insists on having different opinions about the public policy questions raised by disparate laws (including trademark, copyright, and patent law) with different histories and purposes; the alternative he rejects is lumping these laws together into "intellectual property [gnu.org]".
What a great response by Granick! (Score:3, Informative)
I will briefly paraphrase for those too lazy to read this themselves..
Grannick's response is:
1) There isn't a chance in hell someone would confuse the fedexfurniture site for a multinational shipping organization
2) Some guy sold artistic expression of Barbie doing naughty things once
2a) not only did a court find this OK but the company (Mattel) that tried to sue him ended up paying for all his attorneys fees (HINT: Fedex will pay lots of money to Avila if you pursue this)
3) The DMCA reference is Bullshit!
4) He complied with all your websites terms and conditions
5) BTW we put his website on Stanford's servers. Care to sue us both?
In just a page and a half she shredded their case and taunted them to try and sue one of the top legal institutions in the country. But it's all done so subtley.
I have a feeling a NEW terms and conditions will get posted to Fedex in the very near future. Just a gut feeling.
MOD PARENT DOWN (Score:2, Informative)
RFC 920 [ietf.org], back in 1984, says that "COM = Commercial, any commercial related domains meeting the second level requirements."
Re:TLD misuse (Score:1, Informative)
http://www.fedex.org/ [fedex.org]
Talk about the pot calling the . . .