Piracy Not To Blame In Decline of Moviegoers

lucyfersam writes "In a somewhat surprisingly earnest assessment, the NYTimes has an article about the massive decline in movie-going that does not once try to blame piracy and file-sharing programs. It sounds like studios are beginning to understand that they have only themselves to blame." From the article: "Multiples theories for the decline abound: a failure of studio marketing, the rising price of gas, the lure of alternate entertainment, even the prevalence of commercials and pesky cellphones inside once-sacrosanct theaters. But many movie executives and industry experts are beginning to conclude that something more fundamental is at work: too many Hollywood movies these days, they say, just are not good enough."

Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[A Boy and His Blob]

Let me see, which would I rather do: spend $30+ on a movie ticket, popcorn, and a drink just so I can watch the latest subpar selection of movies at a time set by the theater and have popcorn thrown at me by 13 year old cell phone wielding children, OR pick up whatever movie from the redbox [redbox.com] for $0.99 (or DVD rentals through the mail) and a drink and popcorn from the local store all for less than $5 and watch it on my widescreen in the comfort of my own home. Tough call.

I can tell you what's wrong for nothing!

[garcia]

In a somewhat surprisingly earnest assessment, the NYTimes has an article about the massive decline in movie-going that does not once try to blame piracy and file-sharing programs. It sounds like studios are beginning to understand that they have only themselves to blame.

But many movie executives and industry experts are beginning to conclude that something more fundamental is at work: Too many Hollywood movies these days, they say, just are not good enough.

Obviously this article was conceived, written, and posted by a BitTorrent using hacker who wants to see the continued demise of Hollywood be blamed on the wrong parties. There is no way that Hollywood is putting out bad movies. Look at how much they cost to produce, direct, edit, and market!

Even Robert Shaye, the studio leader behind "The Wedding Crashers," one of the summer's runaway hits, shares the worry about the industry's ability to connect with audiences. "I believe it's a cumulative thing, a seismic evolution of people's habits," said Mr. Shaye, chairman of New Line Cinema.

Yeah, people are annoyed with the fact that they have to pay $9.00+ to see something that cost 100+ million to make and it fucking blows. "Wait for DVD" is an all to common quote, especially with the MPAA pushing them out to the stores as fast as they can in order to attempt to curb piracy in the theatre.

It's really funny that they quoted Shaye. His movie, one of the few that did anything this summer (I haven't seen it yet), was done on a 40 million dollar budget and grossed nearly all of that back in its first weekend alone...

In previous years, he said, "you could still count on enough people to come whether you failed at entertaining them or not, out of habit, or boredom, or a desire to get out of the house. You had a little bit of backstop."

Yup, and honestly, it really seemed that it was more worth your while to spend quite a few dollars less, find a more enjoyable movie, and be able to relax for two hours. I can do that at home just as effectively for MUCH LESS money if I only wait for two months ($3.00 opposed to $18.50) and watch the DVD.

The box office numbers have led to intense, broad-ranging conversations across Hollywood about the implications. Many studios have commissioned market research to investigate the causes of moviegoing behavior - or the lack thereof.

Pay me, I guarantee you'll find out more and it will cost you less. I'll start you off here: pay the actors less money - they aren't worth 20+ million a movie. Don't use so many pointless special effects - they aren't working in most instances. Charge less for the movie so my ticket prices aren't $9+ -- you'll be able to better compete with DVD and people will be more likely to go to see the show. Ban cell phones, talking, and make adult only showings - it'll make adults more likely to see a movie w/o having to listen to a bunch of underaged kids, take calls, have their ringtones going, and spend the entire movie talking instead of watching the movie and/or making out. Finally, ask people what they think about it instead of whoever you have been paying to figure it out for you. In the article, Michael Lynton said:

Audiences have gotten smart to the marketing, and they can smell the good ones from the bad ones at a distance.

If we can why can't you? Seems like an open and shut case to me.

It's about time

[TurdTapper]

Now, I think that some of those theories are completely valid. Commercials in the theaters absolutely piss me off. If I'm going to spend 9 bucks to watch a movie, they better not force me to watch commercials before it. Next thing they'll do is start commercial breaks in the middle of the movies. The cell phones are annoying and I like doing other things more than I like watching movies, but in the end, it comes down to what they are finally realizing. The movies suck. If there weren't any cell phones or commercials and I didn't have anything to do, I still wouldn't go.

FTA: In previous years, he said, "you could still count on enough people to come whether you failed at entertaining them or not, out of habit, or boredom, or a desire to get out of the house. You had a little bit of backstop."

That's amazing, because that's what I always figured they were thinking. And that's the attitude that keeps me away.

Now, I love good special effects as much as the next geek, but, call me old fashioned here, I actually like my movies to have this thing called a plot.

I used to say that I'd just wait for it to come out on video but I won't even waste my time with that anymore. Inevitably, I find myself at the end saying, "Well, there's two hours of my life I'll never get back."

I'll actually deal with the commercials and other annoyances if it means that I can be completely entertained.

The evil commercials

[Zaphod-AVA]

Remember when we used to hate all the damn previews? Now we look forward to them, thankful the commercials are over!

I'd pay extra for reserved seating in a theatre with class and no commercials and previews.

-Z

Previews are getting too long

[sriehl]

I have noticed with the theaters in my area, that the previews are getting close to 30 min. long. With previews that long, I don't bother to show up to the theater till the time posted the movie should start. It is getting ridiculous.

No Fucking Duh

[nuintari]

1. Most movies suck ass, and even morons won't pay to see them.

2. All movies cost too much to see, even matinees at most theaters are costly these days.

Drop your quality and raise your prices, then blame someone else when your profits slip, god bless America.

The Cost

[Anonymous Coward]

I know most of the yuppies here will say they don't go because they don't release anything worth seeing anymore. Yeah, whatever. I know I personally don't go much anymore because of the cost (and I'm not talking about gasoline). It's $7/person to get into the theater, and putting aside the guilt trip to buy concessions, I want to have a soda when I'm watching the movie. I have a soda drinking problem, and going the whole movie without a major drink sucks. I do not, however, wish to buy a large soda for $4-$5 (depending on the theater). But I usually do anyway, which contributes to the high cost.

Movie distributors need to charge less, theaters need to lower the price of their concessions, and the industry needs to introduce variable-priced tickets depending on the production costs and perceived popularity of the movie. I'm not willing to pay the same price to see "Bewitched" that I am willing to pay to see Star Wars Ep III. I might be willing to see the earlier if it were a few bucks cheaper just for something to do. But that still leaves the problem with the price of a damn soda.

Whine all you want about recouping costs, but that doesn't change the fact that I choose not to go. Too expensive.

Chaplin and Kurosawa

[milimetric]

On one hand, I agree that a whole lot of movies today are horrible. On the other hand, people today know nothing of movies or what a good movie is. Take for instance Charlie Chaplin. The man was a romantic genius, pouring his emotions on the screen with "Modern Times" and "Limelight" and tens of other wonderful productions. He wrote, directed, acted in, and even composed the music for most of his work. But people today don't get him at all, and they don't even rent copies of Modern Times at Blockbusters any more.

Or Kurosawa. Seven Samurai is a brilliant film and yet most people can't sit through it. Or Jean Luc Goddard, there's not one movie of his at Blockbuster's. So why make good movies? So that the experts can say they're good? Movies are out to make money and the bigger problem at hand is, how do you make people go to a movie, not how do you make a good movie. I think there is no way, theatres are doomed. People will more and more sit on their lazy asses and pay the 3.99 on demand price whenever the movie is available. So what? Museums used to be hopping places too and now they're just tourist attractions.

Call me crazy....

[CFTM]

But I think there might be hope for capitalism in the US afterall! Hollywood is old school and very traditional; they like things done how they've always been done and in the past have been completely unwilling to acknowledge the need for change. Luckily, the dollar is a very powerful persuader. That being said, I still really enjoy the move going experience but let's save it for movies that are actually entertaining. Let them keep making the crap but send most of it straight to DVD. Might piss the theatre chains off but business is a changing.

stop blaming it on gas or cell phones

[tont0r]

i went from watching atleast a movie a week to about 1 every month or so. its just that movies suck. i got tired of wasting my money on something that they just dumped all their money into special effects and forgot about scripts. im hoping that soon the 'eye candy' era will fade out and will go back to just writing good movies instead of relying on good effects. movies like Stealth and what not are definitely not relying on a good script. its scary because at some point, someone said 'HOLY SHIT! I GOT A GREAT IDEA! A PLANE... THAT THINKS ON ITS OWN AND BLOWS THINGS UP! and its fighting only a funny/witty black man, some duffus white guy and a hot chick'

Commercials and Price

[geoffrobinson]

1) Ticket prices have become ridiculous. I like going to the theater in general, but the prices are only warranted on very rare occasions that a film deserves to be seen on the big screen. There was a good discussion in the Tipping Point (I think) about how ticket pricing doesn't reflect supply and demand. The same price for Spider-Man and XXX: State of the Union? A lower price for films not that much in demand would increase the amount of overall tickets sold in gross revenue.

2) Two Towers had about 45 minutes worth of commercials that preceded it. By the time they were over and the film started, I wanted Frodo to get captured and tortured by some orcs.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[topical_surfactant]

I don't know about you pal, but I'd take a hot date to my home theater over a public cinema any day.

My reason for going less

[gorbachev]

A lot of the movie theatres are just in a disgusting state. They're just not appealing environments for me.

You go there and half the ticket booths are not staffed and the automated ticket machines are all malfunctioning, so you can't pick up tickets bought in advance without having to wait in line.

You get inside the theatre and half the concession stands are unstaffed.

The ones that are staffed have lines longer than the bathrooms, have sticky goo all over the counter and are staffed by people who have no concept of customer service whatsoever.

Once you get your $3 coke, that costs $1 outside the theatre, and start walking to take a seat, you have to struggle to not get your feet stuck to whatever sticky shit is covering the floor.

Whenever you arrive at your seat, you're hoping that you don't sit down on one of the many seats that have been broken for more than 2 months. Once you're reasonably happy with the seat, that still creaks and is uncomfortable, you have to clear your immediate surroundings from droppings left by people attending the previous screening. Anything from gum on the seats and/or armrests, empty soda cups in the cupholders, nachos boxes with old, smelly cheese under the seat, etc.

Then when the movie starts, it actually doesn't start until 20 minutes of commercials.

Why would I go enjoy all that voluntarily?

Re:In Other News...

[Spodlink05]

It's the same problem the record industry have. One particular film/song is successful so they just clone it and flog the same formula to death because they have no imagination whatsoever.

Hollywooods' latest non-idea seems to be re-making 70s TV series and films...badly.

Playing it safe and complete lack of imagination are killing these industries. And to add to it over-pricing and blaming your own customers for having the good taste not to watch/listen to the guff your producing is hardly going to help.

Couple more

[acherrington]

Do not forget about the rising price of movie prices themselves. Look for yourself at how much prices have gone up here [natoonline.org]. I can tell you inflation was not that high.

Look at other emerging markets. Tivo: It used to be that you would go and watch a movie when there was nothing on television. Now you can watch the shows you want to see on TV (and there are a lot more channels to choose from), when you have time. Going to the movie theater is now far more inconvenient than it used to be.

Another emerging market: Video games... With a limited amount of entertainment, dollars available and those funds are currently shrinking... Something had to give way to pay for the emerging video game market. Simplest answer: Movies are no longer having their competitive edge that they once did.

Re:I can tell you what's wrong for nothing!

[Harbinjer]

What if all the studios agreed to a salary cap for stars? No one makes more than $5 million and set a maximum percentage too.

What will change is people needing to have better scipts to attract stars instead of higher paychecks.

Some sports leagues have done this, why not hollywood. It would make it less about the money and more about good films and not just brainless summer flicks.

On the other hand, with salary caps, either the director or producer makes more money, or the studio does. So it would be more profitable for them, but would that do anything to improve quality of films, or would we just get more bad movies?

It isn't just movies

[geophile]

In just about any creative enterprise, there is tension between the creators, who are often motivated by love of what they do; and the bean-counters whose only goal is to cut cost. The bean-counters have been winning. They've squeezed so much life out of their products for short-term gain that they've ignored the long term consequences, which we are now experiencing, at least in the USA:

- Crappy movies nobody wants to see, (hello Hollywood)

- Crappy music noboby wants to buy, (hello top 40)

- Crappy cars nobody wants to drive, (hello GM)

- Crappy software that is barely tolerated, (hello Microsoft)

There are people who will pay time and money for quality, but it isn't clear they can support businesses large enough to displace the mediocre behemoths.

Re:Target market?

[gowen]

Not really : Many of the worst blockbuster films of the last year ("Stealth", "The Island", "Fantastic Four" and IMHO "Revenge Of The Sith") are clearly marketed at boys of various ages.

But they're bad films: badly written, badly plotted and largely badly acted. Sure, they're nice to look at, but they're stultifyingly dull. The problem isn't the "13 year old girl" market, it's the fact that most of Hollywood has almost no desire to make films that appeal to adults, and even less of an idea how to make them.

Wedding Crashers may not have been clever, but at least it treated us like adults -- not necessarily the most sophisticated adults -- and aimed its jokes appropriately. It was also one of the summers few hits.

The cost of making the films killing the industry.

[Bahumat]

No, not the price of labor, although the payscale for some high talent actors is amazing. But let's face it; most of those actors aren't just selling their talent, they're selling their name and history of past successes in roles.

But here's an ugly truth: The next time you go to a movie theatre to see the next big summer blockbuster sci-fi blam-kapow film, you'll probably pay, say, $10.00 for the film ticket.

It costs the theatre $14.00 for the rights to show you that movie, per person. So right off the bat, they've lost $4.00. Hence the insane prices at the concession: They *have* to make that money back at the concession, or else they have to raise the ticket prices by %40 or so.

The cost for special effects and high budgets is passed on in this way. The rights for a theatre to screen a movie made on a budget of 20 million dollars is much cheaper. The rights for a theatre to screen a movie that cost 200 million dollars is much more expensive.

Theatres frequently lose money per ticket sold, on the more expensive films.

Just like Rock and Roll: it's gone repertory.

[Anonymous Coward]

People used to go see new opera. They didn't redo old operas.

Same with "classical" music: they didn't go to hear old songs performed, they went for new songs.

Same thing happened with Rock and Roll. People used to go the hear new songs, now they go to hear old songs. Same thing with ballet and jazz.

(Yes, yes, I know ... there are new ballets and new rock music and new jazz ... but it's all derivative. There's not a whole lot new coming out.)

So. The same thing has happened with movies. Hollywood just keeps remaking old movies; there is very little new stuff.

TVs got big enough and DVDs got good enough that there's not that great an incentive to go to a movie theatre and pay 10 bucks for a ticket. You can rent a movie for $2.99.

Soooo close, but no cigar.

[Rahga]

"Too many Hollywood movies these days, they say, just are not good enough."

They got really close here, but the honest truth is that many people who would have gone to movies simply aren't quite as bored as they once were. While not all information is free, the internet makes it much easier to access information and people... There's plenty of people learning, socializing, or just getting a load of visual kicks off the net that movies just can't compete with.

To be quite honest, why _should_ people have cared about Cotton coming to Harlem in the first place, what the Matrix is, or if the funky looking chick from that unfunny Bill Murray movie can escape an island? Arguably, they didn't. Most people just want to avoid boredom or spend time with their mates without actually having to converse. There will always be a market for movies, but probably not quite as big a share of the market ever again.

That, and the modern theater experience sucks. $3.50 for popcorn is a huge markup, 10 minutes of previews is about 10 minutes too many.

10 dollars just for the ticket. Ridiculous.

[dividedsky319]

Is it really that tough to figure out why they aren't making as much? It's too expensive!

They have to realize, it's not like everyone can afford 20 bucks just for admission for a couple to go to the movies. Add food and a drink onto that, and you're talking about at least a 30 dollar night.

Instead of raising the price, why not try lowering the price a few bucks? I'm sure the difference in price would be offset by the amount of people going back to theaters.

I DO like going to the theater to see a movie. It gets me out of the house, and it makes me feel like I'm doing something as opposed to sitting around watching tv. But it's not possible to spend 20 bucks every weekend just for 2 hours of entertainment. A few months down the line and that 20 bucks could BUY me the movie on DVD.

The theatres really do need to enforce decorum

[ShatteredDream]

Whispering every so often is one thing, but my girlfriend and I have had some bad experiences with going out to see a movie. We had a couple sit down next to us and the woman was some frumpy, dumpy middle age woman and she kept glaring at my girlfriend (who was just resting her head on my shoulder) and even coughed up and sprayed a bunch of spit on my girlfriend's leg. Then there are the cell phones, the kids that aren't forced to sit down and watch the movie or leave and things like that.

We really need the theatres to say to people, "look if it's an emergency, take the call, but otherwise if you take the call we'll throw you out." I leave my cell phone off anyway. The real problem is that so many Americans are just selfish bastards and don't bother to think about others. They don't care about others' rights because it's all about them, them and only them.

My cinema assessment

[Motor]

I like going to the cinema. I'm predisposed to enjoy a night out watching a film and going for a drink afterwards and discussing it. However, even I'm sick of it these days.

Why?

1. Too expensive.

2. Cinemas are run by idiots. I regularly have to get up and complain to get the picture shown correctly (and on one occasion, with sound).

3. Idiots who eat/talk or generally make nuisances of themselves, and the cinema staff do nothing.

4. Formulaic drivel. The large Hollywood studios have driven out of mainstream cinemas anything remotely interesting in favour of their relentlessly formulaic shite. Well, ok, not entirely, but unless you have a big studio behind it, it just doesn't ger exposure.

5. Adverts/patronising lies/lectures about copyright instead of starting the film. I don't mind trailers (in fact, I quite enjoy a good "coming soon" section)... but I'm sick of being patronised and treated like a mark rather than a paying customer.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[chowells]

32" LCDs and 46" Plasmas (and larger) are not uncommon in homes now. Considering you would sit considerably closer to one of these than the large projection screen there is quite a chance that the cinema screen will appear smaller.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, $30 for a single ticket, drink, and popcorn is a bit much. However, at $9 for an evening ticket, plus drinks and popcorn for TWO people (my wife and I), plus babysitting for my kids, an evening at the cinema will set me back $50 or more. Alternatively, I can pay $20 per month for one of several unlimited DVD rental plans, save the babysitting fees, and not have to feel guilty about wasting money on a stinker of a film. Just send it back to FlixBuster or whomever and get another.

I like the movie theater experience, but the cost is now an issue, especially when that $50 buys a tank of gas or two.

Differing opinion

[dada21]

I disagree with most of the FP lot.

Most movie theaters are located in very high rent areas. Of course tickets will also be pricy. I don't think there's a quality drop, it seems pretty status quo.

I truly believe that our beloved Internet is to blame. You're seeing the same death knell in brick and mortar retail, restaurants, and even car buying. In a capitalist view, time preference is making new markets. The idea behind time preference is that markets flow towards the faster and cheaper sources. Price is rarely the reason.

Car dealers are selling cars at cost -- with no change in the market slow down. Cars are bought with future earnings often (financing). A lot of people fear their future earnings. Movie theaters prosper when people have money and time right now. Job security has declined, debt has gone way up, savings are nil.

My retail stores are down 50% since 2004. I have less cash to pay my employees. They have less cash to go to the movies. The movie theater employees have less cash to buy my goods, so they buy online -- money that is 'outsourced' to another state, unlikely to return to my local economy. Rinse, repeat.

Our dollar loses more value every day as the Fed inflates our currency. That is a fact. My local economy suffers, and in my experience the money that is made online by big warehouses tends to end up in Mexico and Asia. Not enough is recycled back to theaters, car dealers and local retailers.

Eventually time preference always wins. As our standard
  of living declines, the standard of living in Mexico and Asia increases. The Internet is allowing the free market to balance itself out. Wage
  internationally want to equalize no matter what government or big business wants to do. Its the law of a supply/demand reality.

Who here went to movies & restaurants often in the 90s? How many new cars at 8% interest did you buy then? How many new cars at 0% and employee price will you buy this decade? How much has your debt gone up in that time?

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[op00to]

Where do you live? Do you have a girlfriend/wife?

To go to the movies in the NYC metro area:

at LEAST $9.50 for the tickets -- that's $19 so far, just to get in the door. A drink can run up to $4, so we're at $27. Popcorn for two can run up to $4 again, putting us over $30, and that's for HUMAN sizes. I suppose in Podunk, things may be a little cheaper. Also, outside of NYC, most of the big, nice theaters are out on the highways, so you'll have to figure in gas too!

$30+ is not worth it, especially when morons are allowed to make noise during the movie.

Overpriced food

[Hoi Polloi]

I don't know why people feel the need to eat during movies anyway. I think they do it mainly out of tradition.

I avoid having drinks because the last thing I want is to have to run to the bathroom in the middle of the movie. I hate having to do the old "Is this scene going to be important to the plot?" check before I can run off.

There is no decline!

[EdwinBoyd]

Last year's number are an abberration, mainly due to one film. The Passion of the Christ brought in people that typically do not go into movie theatres, it also brought in more repeat sales as some people felt compelled to watch it over and over again. This same phenomenon happened with the movie Titanic, with many people boasting they had seen it 5 times or more. If sales stay constant until years end the film industry is looking at one of it's highest grossing years of all time. The dirty little secret is that all those terrible movies we complain about (Stealth, Duece Bigalow) will make a substantial profit. Yes it is lower than last year but in the movie industry all it takes is one monster hit to change that. Not making that grand slam every year does not make it an decline.

What I'd like to see them do...

[n0rr1s]

1. Stop releasing sequels.
2. Stop remaking classics.
3. Stop turning books/comics into films.
4. Stop relying on special effects.
5. Write a good story, dammit.

This is what happens when you sit and wait.

[tcc]

If copying movies over the net was technically impossible, movie piracy wouldn't be as bad as today. But it is. On the other hand, they offer NO alternative (aside from suing) to the people who are willing to download movies instead of going to an overcrowded theatre where popcorn price are insane, babies are crying and teens are making more noise than the THX sound system.

It's been what... about over 5 years now that most people can get fast net connection. How come there's only a handfull of online video "renting" services? This is because some dinosaurs didn't want to change, they even had the chance to see their audio cousins getting smacked by piracy and had YEARS to prepare to counterattack by offering a better experience. They didn't. Today, they are way behind.

One of the reasons I went from going every week to the theatre, down to about 3 times a year (aside from the obvious "i'm not going to pay 20$ to see this much crap" is also that the overall experience seems to get worse or I am getting older :), just 10 years ago, i'd never seen that many people getting up and going to get a refill or taking a leak during a movie. This is really disturbing when you are trying to concentrate, and if I go to a theatre, last thing I am looking for is the "living room" feel where everyone talks or comments while the tv is on.

This brings me to the living room feel. Actually I think more and more people like having projection screens or large displays, it's more affordable than it used to, and best of all, movies are out to DVD just a few months after showing in theatre, cheaper, so you can basically have almost the same experience, "free" popcorn, talk without disturbing, or watch without being disturbed, and best of all, you can rewatch or rewind if you missed something, at your convinience, and when you feel like it. You don'e need to drive to a specific time, you don't need to wonder if it's going to be filled at a premiere before you show up, etc..

I own a projector and sound system, and I must admit that it's not a THX experience, but it sure as he** better than the last 5 times I went to a theatre.

Of course, if there would be more SWIII or shrecks being put to the screen, I wouldn't want to wait and they would probably get me back in the theatres :) but if there would be a download service that would cost me 10$ a movie, I'd pay it, I'd split it with people watching me, and we'd have a superb experience, they'd get new money from people that wouldn't have gone to the theatres in the first place, but I admit; I don't know how this could affect their current audience. Still, there's a HUGE market for internet downloads, and iTunes didn't make artists go starving.

People are willing to pay overquota bandwidth, or HS internet ONLY for that purpose, I don't think the argument that they get it for free thus they wouldn't pay holds for everyone. If you get them on a faster pipe at let's say 5$ (or less) a download, at a high quality, many would pay.... I would.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[trevordactyl]

In my opinion, receding into your house because you dislike the way people behave is not the way to go. If someone throws popcorn at you, tell them to stop or report them. If someone kicks your seat, let them know so they'll stop. If you don't want to spend so much on popcorn, don't buy any! Can you really not sit through a two-hour movie without eating?
If you just run away from everything you don't feel comfortable with, the problem isn't ever going to go away.
Part of being a person in society is dealing with other people in society. If you're not comfortable in dealing with other people, the movie theaters aren't the ones at fault.

Re:Chaplin and Kurosawa

[gowen]

So why make good movies?

Because you have to.

Godard didn't care how much money his films made, or even how well received they were (except directly as it affected his chances of financing his next). Everything was completely secondary to his artistic vision.

Similarly with Chaplin; even though he was the biggest star in the world, he made only the films he wanted to make. Everyone in the studio system warned him away from making "The Great Dictator."

The reason that Hollywood sucks, is that their films are greenlighted by accountants, based on projected receipts.

The movie prices aren't so bad

[Stone316]

Its the damn food prices! That are absolutely insane! I remember when they first put in fast food chains at the local movie theatre... I was looking at the Burger King menu and thought, jeez, these prices are almost the same as their regular chain stores... After I bought it, I asked where my drink was, he said it wasn't included and it woulds cost me another 4 bucks!!! I don't mind paying 9$ for a ticket but another 10 bucks for a softdrink and popcorn is insane. Personally, I bought a widescreen TV and it costs me 50$ a month. Thats less than 2 theatre movies for me and my wife.

Re:The evil commercials

[Radres]

As we celebrate mediocrity

All the boys upstairs want to see
How much you'll pay for
What you used to get for free

- Tom Petty
The Last DJ

Defend Your Claim - "Movie Theaters are Obsolete"

[ackthpt]

Movie Theaters are Obsolete

Let me see, which would I rather do: spend $30+ on a movie ticket, popcorn, and a drink just so I can watch the latest subpar selection of movies at a time set by the theater and have popcorn thrown at me by 13 year old cell phone wielding children, OR pick up whatever movie from the redbox for $0.99 (or DVD rentals through the mail) and a drink and popcorn from the local store all for less than $5 and watch it on my widescreen in the comfort of my own home. Tough call.

You haven't explained why movie theaters are obsolete. All you have done is vent a bunch of issues you have with them. For me, the price of $30 for an evening out to see a film is a steal compared to the price of a widescreen TV and decent home entertainment system, particularly if I only see 10 movies a year. (Actually I catch the matinees and pay much less than $30, but that only further underscores the economic lopsidedness of the argument)

What you reall want is to see a film WORTHY of watching in such an environment, whether on your deluxe Home Entertainment Center or the local Bijou -- That's what's really at issue this year, a bunch of duds. Probably one of the most popular films, not necessarily in cattle herding terms, but enjoyment, is March of the Penguins. That speaks volumes. You also expect the theater management to do something to block cell phones. Have to asked to see the manager and complained, or do you just grumble a lot then make postings on /. and hope the theater managers of the world happen by it and repent?

Digital theaters are on the way and the bar for getting a "film" on the local screen will be less an issue, except where those are in collusion with Hollywood and MPAA to keep the bar up there against independent film.

Theaters offer an environment I could only manage if I won the lottery, which I've so far failed to do. So for my $ it's still a good deal, as long as there is something WORTHY of my time and money. Hollywood is part of your problem, not just the tired remakes, but the fact you have very little variation in performers. We've gotten away from ugly, but talented people who made the great movies of the golden age, to a bunch of look alikes who don't vary from one film to the next, Tom Cruise as an example. Hollywood likes "safe bets" and has therefore cut out a lot of the real character that made films so interesting in the past, because the found the public was just fine with vanilla. Problem is, too much vanilla acting has made it all dull.

Support independent cinema. Most of the best films I've seen in the past 5 years were at the Nickelodeon or Del Mar [thenick.com] theaters in my city. Find and give your custom to those where you live.

Prices

[Weasel5053]

The reason for decline in theater attendance is that it is just too damn expensive. I have a family of 6. The cost for us to go to the theater is about $70 even at matinee pricing. That's about $35 for admission and another $35 for popcorn and drinks. It's just too much money for 90 minutes of entertainment. It's really the snack prices that put me over the edge. $35 for popcorn and soda is absurd. We *like* going to movies but at these prices I choose to invest in my own home theater and wait a few months for the DVD release.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Otter]

I think that what you're saying, plus the obvious superiority of movie screens over televisions, is what the movie industry has been coasting on for decades. The problem is, the "going to the cinema" experience took a huge hit when television came out, another when the sexual revolution made it less necessary to find a place to kiss, was rehabilitated by Spielberg and Lucas, and has been getting hammered ever since by VCRs, cable, the Internet, Netflix and home theaters.

I don't think there will be a next generation willing to pay a premium for the cinema experience.

Re:I can tell you what's wrong for nothing!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, Slashdot, where somebody who has never worked in an industry thinks that all its problems are simple.

Stars: Like it or not, stars can sell a movie. "War of the Worlds" probably sold a lot more tickets with Tom Cruise in in that it would have without him. Theoretically, the people who become stars do so because of some sort of acting talent as well, so the money you pay for a star buys you lot of publicity, some "fan" ticket sales, and a more solid movie due to good acting. (Note the "theoretically" word. I am not actually claiming that certain stars can act.) If the studios didn't think they were getting their money's worth, they wouldn't pay it. Pure capitalism.

Anything artistic is a big risk. Everyone interprets art differently, so something that works really well for some people will totally flop with others. Worse, it is very hard to tell how something is going to turn out before you begin, especially if you are being adventurous. The way to make a great movie is to aim for the fringes, where it is novel and different, but doesn't alienate the mainstream. If you go a little too far, your audience drops off fast. You can stay mainstream and not risk that, but then you have a hard time attracting interest in the first place (so you add more effects, more violence, and more sex). If you follow what worked before then you risk getting panned as derivative, but if you don't then you're shooting in the dark and not learning from experience. Some things seem pretty obvious, especially after watching a bad movie, but it's rarely as easy as "do this" or "don't do that".

So, I don't think their problems are quite as simple as you make them out to be. Personally, I like going to movies in the theater, mostly because I already spend too much time in my living room (that's where the computer is). I go to early shows, so I rarely have issues with the audience.

hype burnout

[serano]

Another factor might be this: Over the last 5 years or so, Hollywood's marketing machine has become increasingly effective at hyping every single movie, making the opening of a movie seem like an event you have to participate in or be forever mitigated to a lowly social rung. This has made movie openings much larger than they were 10 years ago, even for utterly crappy movies. It might take them a while, but eventually people become numb to the hype and these new marketing techniques, and movie attendance drops accordingly.

Re:Chaplin and Kurosawa

[bjk002]

This is partly to blame on the industry itslef. They have spent several generations now "teaching" (marketing) the new crop of the movie-going public what they should "think" is a good movie, to the detriment of themselves.

Chaplin is a genius, and was thought of as such, years ago. Years ago people enjoyed that work. BUT NOW...

Re:Chaplin and Kurosawa

[robertjw]

When's the last time you saw a $40M marketing blitz on a "good movie"?

By most movie snob's definition it wouldn't be a "good movie" if they spen $40M marketing it.

Re:DVDs should be released immediately

[iainl]

I'd suggest a different solution: Make Films Not Suck.

The reason why you'll probably not want to see "40 Year Old Virgin" in 4 months time (and dear God is that a short wait compared to back when films actually made money) is because it's mindless average twaddle.

If it actually _isn't_ twaddle (I wouldn't know; it holds no appeal) then the positive buzz from the cinema release might mean you do want to see it when you can.

Lots of reasons.

[FullCircle]

Starting with the one I haven't seen posted yet...

Action movies today are too fast for 24fps film. With all the fast motion and cuts, it becomes a blur. Those few extra fps on DVD with a clear TV completely blow away a projector. It is a whole different movie at home.

TV's got bigger while movie screens got smaller.

Home audio is better and you have a freaking volume control.

People get imposed upon while the MPAA looks for cameras.

The quality of movies has declined. What happened to many great movies per year? As it is, even Stealth will win awards this year just because it was released.

If you muct run commercials, run them BEFORE the movie is scheduled to start, while people are comming in. We paid for a MOVIE, not a commercial.

People are RUDE in theaters. STFU! Theaters should enforce this and remove people who ruin it for others instead of looking for cameras.

The pricing for food and drinks is crazy. It is a long time well known joke.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[JesseL]

Just how little control do you think parents should have over their children? If you can't get the kids to go to bed and stay there while you watch a movie, you have bigger problems.

My Random Theory

[Epistax]

Movies are a prime example of my theory.
How much money is spent on advertising a movie? What percentage is that of the total cost? How much do the theatres themselves advertise? How much of that is the total cost? In short, how much money is used (I'd love to say wasted) telling me to go see a movie that I already know that I want to see because of the natural free advertising that takes place every day? (Look up movie listings through the movie theatre's website, see articles on CNN / imdb, hear from friends, hear countless plugs on TV [not ads]). All of those communications costs the film crew zero dollars. Those affect me. Then you buy an ad on TV or in a magazine. Trust me, I'll almost never see it. Even if I did, why would I go to a movie that I didn't learn about from a more trusted and objective source? Why would I even by aware of your commercial?

That's just movies. It gets far, far worse than that. Company A buys products from Company B which buys from Company C which buys from Company A. 'A' gets investor pressure (or anything, really) and starts a marketing campaign to get more customers, thus increasing the price to 'B'. Now 'B' needs to market and/or raise prices to break even with the change, costing more to 'C', and now 'C' must do the same, causing 'A' to choke. These 3 companies are now in a little inflation loop which will hurt not only these companies, but every other customer to 'A' 'B' and 'C'. My little theory says that our complete and stupid over-exposure to advertising is now responsible for a significant portion of the change in cost of every product, thus wages, thus inflation. Now of course currently oil is slated to bring the price of every product up by a decent amount too, but I mean aside from that.

In short, not only do I find advertising annoying and insulting, I find it threatening.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Sheriff of Rockridge]

If you eat before you see the movie, and just smuggle in a bad of skittles, you just saved yourself $18. The food has always been outrageous. Luckily, you aren't forced to buy it. It's the ticket prices that are getting ridiculous. It's $10.25 i believe to see a movie at a good stadium seating theater in my city.

What makes a movie good

[killmenow]

call me old fashioned here, I actually like my movies to have this thing called a plot.

All good movies must have at least two of the following:

1. An interesting plot...simple enough, one would think. "Rob Schnieder goes to Amsterdam and poses as a gigolo to foil a murder mystery" doesn't count.
2. Dialog that sounds more like it was written by Quintin Tarantino than George Lucas.
3. Character development. This does not include a guy who thinks fat chicks are worthless until Tony Robbins hypnotizes him and when it wears off he finally realizes he's in love with one and it's what's on the inside that really matters.
4. Quality acting, as opposed to anything ever done by Keanu Reeves.
5. Jennifer Connelly

Actually, that last one is enough on its own.

Re:In Other News...

[stienman]

Oh, come on.

If you strip away enough you can get to the fact that every movie has one of two plots:

Introduce hero, Kill hero (or hero's dreams)
or
Introduce hero, hero succeeds.

It's a matter of how deep you want to go. Every movie made now can certianly be compared to a movie made in the 70s. Or 60s. Or 80s. Etc.

Complete lack of imagination? Describe an artist, writer, composer, or book that would not only fullfill all your criteria for imaginative (ie, completely new idea, concept, etc) AND would have enough mainstream appeal to pay for its own production and distribution.

All the interesting stories are exactly the same as the old interesting stories. People's basic needs haven't changed (food, security, love, recognition, etc [tutor2u.net]), and therefore the basic movie fair isn't (arguably can't) going to change.

The reason the movie industry is declining is not so much due to the fact that there really are no new stories. It's due to the fact that there are so many other equivilant forms of entertainment available, and many are cheaper and more convenient.

-Adam

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Penguin Programmer]

You must live in a retirement community in Florida or something.

If I want to see a movie rated less than R these days, I have to go late at night so there won't be annoying little kids there. They don't just scream or talk, they walk around in the aisles, go to the washroom frequently and are generally disruptive. The junior-high aged kids (12-15) are the worst, especially big groups of girls. They come and sit at the back and talk amongst themselves and on their cellphones and constantly text message the whole time. If you turn around and give them a dirty look now and then sometimes the smart one in the group will tell the rest to shut up, but that's if you're lucky. And you can't even get away from that age group by going late at night. Sometimes they even show up in R-rated films.

Honestly, it'd be nicer if all movies were rated NC-17 and only showed at midnight. I still go to movies now and then, but only if I have cheap passes or if I can get in on staff-only early showings. It's just not worth $26 for two of us to see a movie.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[jim_v2000]

Maybe if theaters didn't charge so much people would go more. (Actually, you can leave the maybe part off) There's a theater in my town that shows older films (ones that have already been in the box office for month or two) for $1.50, and they seem to do a lot of business. I've been able to see pretty much every good/mediocre movie that's come out in the past few years on the big screen for about the same price as renting a DVD (unless you go with more than 2 people).

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[rootofevil]

sometimes you see a comment that deserves more than +5, funny.

this is one of those.

good show.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[EvilSS]

Those refills are not free. At those prices, you would have to drink about 20 gallons before you broke even! $4 for hot water! They should patent that one!

Good products

[nuggz]

I wouldn't say the products aren't good, just not good enough.
I'll pay $5 + 2 hours of my time to watch a not great movie, I'm just not willing to put up with $40+ the rappy theater environment to watch it.

Music CD's aren't worth $20, so I don't buy them. I'll just turn on the radio. Sometimes I'll see a decent CD on clearance for $5, I might grab it.

Re:It's about time

[electroniceric]

It's definitely about time. The key thing the movies need to change is stop coasting on the same old movie as its own reason to come to the theater, because it ain't anymore, and especially not for $10 a head. People (including myself) gladly pay $30 and upwards to see a good play. Why? Basically because the experience is memorable, elegant (speaks well of you on a date), and thought-provoking. Even if the movies were only $5 now, I wouldn't really go more - who wants to hustle out there, get in line, and deal with finding a seat, just to sit in the dark essentially by yourself.

Movie theaters needs to shoot for something distinct and memorable, because the lower end of the market: low-key evening in, casual, don't want to think about it is completely sewed up at home, and would continue to be, even if the price of a movie rental doubled. Theater movies need to try things like an intermission, a lounge, a forum to meet other moviegoers, plus of course, movies that you can actually get into and enjoy, anything to get you re-connected to the movies as a social event.

Re:Chaplin and Kurosawa

[Penguin Programmer]

So just because we don't all enjoy what people enjoyed in the 1930's, there's something wrong with us? Movies have evolved and viewers have evolved with them.

Now, I'm not saying that this summer's movies were good - most of them looked terrible (I say looked because the only ones I actually saw were Star Wars, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and 40-year-old Virgin, which were all decent). However, I consider a good modern film like American Beauty just as "genius" and a hell of a lot more entertaining and interesting than Chaplin. I'm sure 70 years down the road people will look at the modern movies we consider genius today and think that they're boring or whatever too.

Not much better

[Sycraft-fu]

I live in Tucson, we aren't podunk rural, but sure as hell not NY, call it maybe a million people including surrounding areas. Housing is very cheap, wages tend to be on the low side. Ticket price? $8.50.

Screw that. I'd rather spend the money on making my home theatre better. These days, it's quite accessable. You can get a good sound system for like $1000-$1500, and a widescreen HDTV for $1000-$2000. Ya, buys a lot of nights at the movies, but there's something to be said for watching in your own living room. You watch them on your own schedule, you can pause and go to the bathroom, you can have a beer, there are no screaming kids, etc.

Basically the only thing theatres really have going for them is timeleness of release, you get to see it there first. Other than that, I'd much rather just have some friends over to my place, or go over to theirs, and watch movies on a good home theatre.

Re:My reason for going less

[dmccarty]

Theaters share some of the blame, but not all of it. Whose fault is it that the floor is sticky, there is gum on the seats, and trash all over the place?

Yours.

Not you specifically, of course, but people around you that behave like animals. People spill their soda and popcorn and don't bother to pick it up or use a napkin to wipe it up. People leave their trash in their seats, ignoring the trash cans that are usually inside or immediately outside the room. Where is the average person's manners these days? Where is the common courtesy of not acting like a lazy slob and not leaving your garbage where you sat?!

The main reason I go to the movies less isn't the quality of the movies, but the quality of the moviegoers. I'm sure the theaters could do a better job of cleaning up, but so could everyone else.

Re:I can tell you what's wrong for nothing!

[DavidTC]

No. Just, no.

Vibrate is not what you set cell phones to in the theater, unless you're willing to just walk out when it goes off.

I've seen too many people who think setting it vibrate means you're allowed to answer it in the theater. You are not. Just turn the damn thing off unless you're a doctor or your mother is on her deathbed. If a call isn't important enough that it makes you leave the theater, you shouldn't have answered it in the first place.

Honestly, people, we used to do without cell phones. You'd go hours without being reachable. If it's one of those few hours a week you need to be reachable, don't go and see a damn movie in the first place.

And, BTW, this include text messages. You're not allowed send text messages during movies. It seems like, logically, this would be okay, but almost all text messaging is accompanied with flashes of light, giggling, and whispering and showing your phone to your friends.

So, basically, do not turn the phone on vibrate. It seems like it would be fine, but it's too open to abuse. Don't mess with your damn cell phone at all. Turn it off, or on silent so it records missed calls, and forget about it.

If you want to do stuff while you're watching movies, watch them at a home. When you watch a movie, the only think you should be reacting to is the movie, or your friends reactions to the movie. I'm willing to put up with whispered 'Is that the guy that was in The X-Files?', but not 'Oh, Frank just broke up with Jessica' because you just got some damn text message.

Re:Target market?

[It doesn't come easy]

But they're bad films: badly written, badly plotted and largely badly acted.

Exactly. Anyone want to guess how long it took to work out the plot for Stealth? I'll bet that it was less than a day myself.

I think I could make a generalization that would go far in predicting a good movie in advance: If the movie is based on the work of a highly regarded author, then it has a good change of being worth the money. Why? Because you don't usually become a highly regarded author with out having some talent for telling a story. And if the screenwriters don't botch the plot and stay reasonably true to the storyline, you might end up with a good movie.

All of these movies that Hollywood keeps throwing together based on some off-the-wall catch phrase or popular buzz word start off with a serious disadvantage. One of the key characteristics that seem to appear in those quick-fix movies are ultra extremes. You know, where jokes aren't just meant to be funny, they has to be of such an extreme nature that they top the last three remakes that featured the same jokes (as an example, the jokes in Deuce Bigalow: European Gigolo [sonypictures.com] come to mind -- Please note: This does not imply that Deuce Bigalow: Male Gigolo was a good movie).

Another Hollywood characteristic of the typical bad movie -- remakes remakes remakes. The percentage of original ideas coming out of Hollywood these days is pretty low. One reason for this (IMHO) is the perpetual extension of copyright. No need to come up with an original idea if you can simply regurgitate that same old movie modernized with new special effects.

OK, 'nough of my ranting...I now return you to the show currently in progress...

Re:My reason for going less

[jfisherwa]

Fuck that. If the theater is going to charge as much as my maid service, that's how they will be treated.

You don't walk into a restaurant, sit down at a dirty table and think "My God, the previous people to eat here were complete slobs!"

I would be more inclined to not leave my $10 popcorn + Coke "VALUE COMBO" under my seat if there hadn't been trash there to begin with.

Re:after all these years,

[ed__]

No, after extended periods of cranio-anal impaction, feelings of loneliness, apathy, and generalized anxiety can accompany eventual, successful cranial ejection.

Other symptoms often reported are light sensitivity, hyperacusis, olfactory hallucinations, feelings of 'emptiness' or loss, and hypersensitivity to the opinions of others.

For some patients, a brace is indicated in order to prevent re-occurrance. Rarely, in extereme cases, spinal fixation is required, most commonly achieved through the use of spinal rod-plate and transpedicular screw.

There's nothing wrong with books/comics to film

[WidescreenFreak]

While I completely agree with points 1, 2, 4, and 5, I disagree completely with #3.

The primary concern is not if a book or comic is transferred to a theatrical release but rather whether or not it's done well and faithfully based on the original material.

I am thrilled that Peter Jackson did Lord of the Rings. Even with all of the (often unnecessary) literary licenses that he took in The Two Towers, the trilogy as a whole was very, very well done and did not rely on special effects but instead focused on the characters. I would have done certain scenes differently (like eliminating the warg rider attack, which never occurred in the books), but his movies were IMO the best adaptation of the books that Hollywood has made.

I've heard that Sin City is exceptionally close to the comics. It's a bit too violent for me, so I doubt that I'll see it, but everyone that I've spoken to who is a fan of the comics says that it was very well made.

The Spider-Man movies were also very well done.

Sadly, for every good adaptation of a book there are a number of bad adaptations of that book or others, such as The Hulk. We just have to pan those as the badly done movies that they are, but no more or less than any other movie.

I agree that there is a point of saturation. If too many movies of a certain type come out in a short span, movie-goers are going to be turned off, just like when a song gets far too much radio air play, but the saturation is more often because what's gettng repeated either sucks or just isn't good for multiple viewings/hearings.

If a book adaptation can be written well, presented well, and yet remain faithful to the original matieral, then there is no reason why it should not be made just because another book adaptation was recently released.

The really funny thing is

[Sycraft-fu]

They defend themselves buy saying theyare just giving the consumer what they want, yet it's clear consumers like new stuff. Look at Sin City. Hollywood hated that movie because it broke all kinds of rules, some offical, some just defacto.

Like the DGA says you can't have more than one director. A director can have ADs, but only one director. Rodriguez quit the DGA over that so he and Frank Miller could co direct. Studios say you can't do black and white films, barring something epic like Schindler's List. Also, you can't cast big name-good guy actors in bad guy roles, espically non-sepaking roles, because they claim the actors won't take it. Elija Wood said it was a blast playing Kevin in the movie. And so on.

Well, for all that, the movie was a massive success, and made Rodriguez a shitload of money. Audiences clearly responsed, even though it wasn't done "correctly" according to Hollywood knowledge.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[moviepig.com]

Let me see, ... would I rather...spend $30+ on a movie ticket, popcorn, and a drink just so I can watch the latest subpar...movies...?

There was a time when studios aimed to create exciting movies. (More than one time, actually. Choose your era.) But, for a while now, the focus has been on creating exciting events, i.e., movies that can be marketed as exciting and of don't-be-left-out caliber. It's both a cause and effect of the 5,000-screen opening weekend... which makes advertising cheaper, but also makes those initial droves of excited, uninformed viewers all the more important...

...except now many viewers are becoming informed. (Evolution. Who'da thunk it?) They're learning, for example, that a movie that opens with less-than-blockbuster fanfare, but that steadily gains public acceptance (such as, most recently, WEDDING CRASHERS and MARCH OF THE PENGUINS) just might kick the crap, enjoyment-wise, out of GORE-LUST III (rated PG-13). And these viewers won't speed to the multiplex for less.

Re:Differing opinion

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. It's all too obvious that the Hollywood movie mills are churning out a lot of crap these days - tinseltown seems to be chock full of mediocre script writers and "over-marketed" actors. Even worse is having to watch commercials for colas and automobiles in a theatre. Thanks, but I'll save my $10+ to see the (increasingly rare) movie that actually has a story -otherwise I'm content to wait for the DVD rental or satellite broadcast.

So kids, let's review the steps to see a movie:

pick the least crappy movie you can find (good luck):
+ drive to theatre in a cheap big-box suburb
+ park in undersized parking spot
+ walk to building entrance (possibly in rain or snow)
+ wait in ticket line
+ pay $10 (or more) per ticket
+ wait in concession stand line
+ pay $5 (or more) for popcorn & drink
enter theatre:
+ wait - on-screen trivia
+ wait - on-screen commercials
+ wait - on-screen previews
watch the movie: with possible distractions
+ slowly exit theatre with hordes of people
+ locate your car in parking lot (possibly brush off the snow)
+slowly exit parking lot with hordes of people

Yup, just another crappy movie that isn't worth the hassle!

Your kung-fu is obsolete

[Ferromancer]

BWAHAHAHA! You actually PAY for the watered-down soda and stale popcorn? Sheesh, my girlfriend and I usually hit the local grocer/wallmart/meijer, put some bin candy in a bag, buy water/soda, and sneak it into the theater. Get a lot more for your money that way. Once we even snuck in some McDonalds and a full bag of our own popcorn.

We also use our old student ID's go get a student discount. When you include food, that comes out for a cheap $15 date!

Oh, and we go to the theaters late at night at around 11, avoid the insipid movies if we can, and often go on the weekdays. Makes it a whole lot better that way.

Have to tried going to an art theater? They're usually closer downtown than megaplexes, have cheaper tickets, better food, much better movies, and nicer audiences.

Re:What I'd like to see them do...

[Curby23]

>1. Stop releasing sequels.

Toy Story 2
Terminator 2
Aliens
Spiderman 2
X-2

>2. Stop remaking classics.

Ocean's 11

>3. Stop turning books/comics into films.

Lord of the Rings
Fight Club
Spiderman
X-Men
Batman Begins

>4. Stop relying on special effects.

Matrix
Kill Bill
The Abyss

>5. Write a good story, dammit.

Agreed. Actually, I think this is the real problem - all my examples had good scripts.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[hobbesx]

an actual theater screen which is however many feet tall and wide

I realize that my situation is a bit unusual, but with an InFocus X1 projector and a decent surround sound system, I end up with a screen that is about twelve feet wide and close enough in experience to a 'real' theater. (It's in my basement, where we can control the ambient light). There is only two reasons we ever go to see a movie in the theater:
1) We're going with a really large group of friends, and everyone lives far enough away from each other that it's more polite to meet at a theater that's closer for the group. (Some live in the city and don't have cars...)
2) It's a movie that we really don't want to wait to arrive on video.

The first couple months that we waited for the release of movies on DVD was disappointing, but once you get 'behind' there's a steady flow of movies coming out on DVD to buy. Now, for half (or even a third) of the cost of a trip to the theater (excluding the purchase of the equipment of course) we get to keep the movie and watch it whenever we like and still see it on a big screen. No driving (especially with Amazon or Netflix), more comfortable seats, better and cheaper food, and parties naturally gravitate to our house.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Ced_Ex]

As good a vigilante you are by doing that, I always have a voice in the back of my head nagging me about the legal aspects of doing that.

If this hell spawn had any wits about her, she could have laid assault charges on you. Which would sort of suck since she deserved it.

That is probably the main reason why I personally don't want to go to theatres now, especially during the opening weeks. I just don't want to have to put myself in a situation where I find myself laying the boots to someone rather than watching the movie all because this person pushed me over the edge.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[SA3Steve]

For me, it breaks down like this:

5% ruined by other people
25% good movie experience
70% ruined by a bad/ridiculous movie

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Total_Wimp]

...and there's still a pretty huge difference between seeing a movie on a widescreen TV vs. an actual theater screen which is however many feet tall and wide.

I bought some mid-high end Klipsh speakers and a mid-range Pioneer surround sound receiver. It's not even dialed in properly because I accidently reset the reciever to factory defaults and haven't had a chance to dial it in again.

My TV is a nice, but not exceptional. When new, it was awesome, but it pales by comparison to today's DLP HDTVs. It's a 37" standard def. Mitsubishi Megaview.

Since I've had this setup, I've had continual disappointment of the quality on most occasions that I've gone to the theater. The sound is almost never as good, and even though the screen is usually better, scratchs on the print and projection equipment being set too dim have been common occurances. I thought it was just my local theater at first, but I've gone to several others in the area and out of town. On average my sound kicks butt over the theaters and my video is only slightly worse (and on a few occasions better).

From TFA: DVD sales, while still robust, are no longer rising exponentially, and some analysts say that a poor box office performance this summer will lead to poor DVD sales this winter.

Let's see how this actually pans out. My guess is some of the poor movies aren't going to sell well on DVD either, but that if you add up DVDs sold and box office tickets sold you'll find the total industry "units sold" is still far ahead of anything the industry saw with box office + tapes in the mid nineties.

The movie theater has always been better than what most people get in their home. Still is for many people. But as Wal-Mart sells more and more boxed surround sound and starts getting HDTV off the ground, joe average is going to start liking his home better than the multiplex. I think the best way for theaters to deal with this is to:

A)STOP WHINING! Complaining that I'm not buying your product is not the best way to get me to start. Samsung never whines about me not buying their HDTVs.

B)Improve your sound. Don't just have surround sound, but get high quality speakers that capture nice low sounds while still giving a focused punch for those explosions. You're competing with people sitting in "the sweet spot" at home, many of them with good equipment.

C)Improve your print. Go digital or have equipment that won't scratch your print. You're competing with a perfect digital presention via HDTV or DVD.

D)Improve your screen. Get high quality projection screens and play your movies at the proper brightness settings. You're competing with 53" DLP

E)Improve your environment. Stadium seating, comfy chairs, raisable arm rests, wider arm rests so you don't have to share with your neibor, wider, more comfortable seats. You're competing with my couch.

If the theaters do all these things, people will still continue to view them as the superior viewing environment. If they don't, many people, like me, will find the home viewing experience wins.

TW

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Man in Spandex]

WHo says you have to buy popcorn or drinks? What a stereotype to think that going at the movies involves popcorn.

Can't you not eat for 2-3 hours?

I find it hillarious when I see the same old comments that go against theatres like "noisy kids, idiots, overpriced food".

- Noisy kids or idiots? Do something about it? There's always a few who always talk but I have gone to the movies enough to know that once I'm into the movie, unless the whole theatre is filled of idiots, it doesn't annoy to have a few idiots in the room.
- Overpriced food? Eat before or after. Of course it's pricy, they know people like you will buy the overpriced popcorn that actually costs 5 cents

What about when you slashdotters went to see the original Star Wars at the threatre. Were you against theatres at that time? So I guess at that time the theatre was filled of people who were quiet, from a rich family educated who will stfu when they are told to right? Yesyes and I live on Mars.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Brandybuck]

You might prefer it, but she won't. I don't care how much money you make on that IT job, chinese takeout and a Netflix DVD aren't going to impress her.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[diskis]

Somebody please explain to be why everybody is factoring in the cost of popcorn and drinks?
Whos idea is it that you _must_ eat popcorn when seeing a movie? Can't people keep their mouths shut for two hours?

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[drsquare]

I don't understand the complains about prices of food/drink. I think if you can't go without eating or drinking for two hours you're probably too fat to fit in a cinema anyway.

People need to stop associating eating with entertainment, they just stuff themselves all day and night, burgers at the computer, pizza in front of the TV, popcorn at the cinema, all washed down with 500-calorie fizzy drinks no doubt. No wonder everyone's fat these days. People should eat at proper mealtimes, at a dinner table. Any snacks should be small portions of fruit or something, not chocolate bars and pot noodles.

To get back on topic, the reasons I don't go to the cinema are numerous:

1. The cinema is in the middle of nowhere. I don't know what genius decided that people would rather travel miles and miles to a retail park off a motorway junction, always next to a supermarket or bowling alley, rather than just going into a town centre. Seriously, it's an excursion getting to one these days.

2. It's too expensive. Most films are rubbish, worth maybe a pound at most. You don't even know if they're crap before you've paid the money, as reviewers and critics are ALL useless.

3. Full of idiots. Mobile phones, talking, all that crap. They should be shot. And they shouldn't sell popcorn or coke, it makes everything sticky.

4. Films are crap. I don't think there's been a good film released for years. What did we get this summer? Bore of the Worlds. Standard formula: bland big-name director who's out of ideas, bland big-name photogenic 'actor' who can't act but will get the women in, screaming kid, special effects, crap script, crap ending. Spielburg should retire, where are the good directors?

The rest are generally shitty 'comedies' full of fart jokes. This year it's a film where the funniest joke (the best jokes are ALWAYS in the advert) is a man having his chest hair waxed. Excuse me if I'm not rolling in the aisles.

There might be some good films out there, but going to the cinema is too much of a hassle to make it worthwhile. I usually wait 'till they're on DVD or on TV.

Well what they need to do

[Sycraft-fu]

Is pay people a percentage of profits. So you get a saliry for your work, something that even if the film bombs you aren't out on the street, but the real money for you is in the success at the box office. Film nets huge dollars, you make huge dollars, film never makes back it's production cost, you get nothing.

Problem is, anyone who's ever worked in Hollywood before will enver accept that. Why? Because the studios are lying fuckers. They have a tricky, BS accounting setup so that none of their films ever make money on paper. Matrix? Lost money according to the studios. Interesting they thend made two more, isn't it? It is, of course, to get out of paying taxes, but also to sucker people.

Often they'll offer you net points to work on a movie, meaning percentage of net profits. Sounds like a good idea right? If you make 1% of a big movie's profits, you make a lot. Well no, you'll never get a check for anything because the studio will tell you the movie lost money.

So of course all vetrans won't accept the situation, it's cash up front, or gross points (a percentage of the gross sales) which studios won't give out usually.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[jafomatic]

Problem number one: This suggests that the aforementioned date is the first date. That was not specified in the post. This is probably an excellent "date" for a woman that's already seen you a few times.

Problem number two: You're assuming cheap chinese takeout which may or may not work. I'm thinking that the well-paying IT job affords us to take a woman out for $200 sushi, not $20 chinese. Try it and be amazed at the difference; even if you have to order something that isn't raw fish --teriyaki chicken or something-- your date will feel special if you go to a nice place.

Problem number three: A movie is not the best place for a first date. You need to interact, not stare at a screen on your first date. Dinner good, movie bad. Try dinner and a gallery opening, or some other activity during which you are able to have some kind of conversation. Try not to use the word 'boobies' during this conversation.

Disclaimer: Dropping cash in front of shallow women will usually make them like you a bit more, but it will not always make them want to fuck you. Try to be a little charming in addition to being well-paid.

Best of luck to you.

Crappy stuff nobody wants = $ $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$

[dazedNconfuzed]

All that "crappy stuff nobody wants" you list is making humongous amounts of money which comes out of an amazing number of pockets ... and the "quality" audience doesn't pay nearly as much (as in: not even close to the same order of magnitude).

Re:What I'd like to see them do...

[Kelson]

Nah, #1-4 aren't problems. You can make a good sequel or adaptation, there are occasionally good remakes, and special effects aren't a problem (unless you mean relying entirely on effects).

#5 is the real issue. They're too busy over-engineering the story to water down anything that might lose audience, insert elements that the focus group things will pick up more people in X demographic. If Gone With the Wind were remade today, they'd add car chases (with horse and buggy), there would be bedroom scenes with Scarlett and each of her husbands, Rhett would have kick-ass fight scenes, Prissy would turn out to be a girl commando in the Northern army (and fully capable of delivering a baby), and the movie would be all about how the South deserved to lose.

Re:The theatres really do need to enforce decorum

[forkazoo]

I went to one of the Serenity sneak previews, and they actually said that anybody with a cell phone that rings would be thrown out, and everybody sitting near them would be *expected* to point at them to make it easier to find them. Damn near brought a tear to my eye. I just wish they would have that sort of service in all the shows, rather than just the occasional special sneak preview.

Having a real person come in, say a few words, and maybe give away a free T shirt or something in every show would be a great way to leverage the advantage of a movie theater : being in public, rather than all alone.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[mesach]

You sir, are an ASS.

Turn OFF your cell phone, I dont care if its on vibrate, I sat next to a guy that checked his phone 6 times during the last movie I went to, it didnt ring, but his screen sure as hell was bright enough to light up the immediate area and piss off about 15 people.

If you dont answer it in the theater then why not TURN OFF YOUR GODDAMN CELL PHONE it has the same effect, it GOES TO VOICEMAIL either way.

People these days are such inconsiderate fucks. I bet you also hold up 20 people behind you in your car, while you let out 1 person from a driveway so they can go slow and hold everyone up.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you must be one of those important people I've read about... You know, the kind that think that they're so important people will put up with shit like phones in a cinema. I think the term used was asshole.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[crawling_chaos]

Unfortunately, given the state of the parenting these days, she probably went home and bawled to daddy and he bought his princess another cell phone.

Actually, I bet the theatre ended up paying for that phone, as it was cheaper than contesting a lawsuit for allowing destruction of property to occur on their premises. Both you and the brat should have been ejected and barred from the premises.

As the man said, your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose. Just because she was being rude gives you know right to commit robbery (you grabbed the phone from her hand), and destruction of her private property. Of course, I doubt that this actually happened, as any sane manager would have involved the police immediately to minimize his company's legal liability. At the very least the officer would have cited, if not arrested you.

This is pretty much the equivalent of keying a car illegally parked in the handicapped space. It feels good, but it still isn't right.

Re:Chaplin and Kurosawa

[Anonymous Coward]

You're both missing the point. The only thing that makes a movie 'good' is if it fulfills the movie-viewers wishes for the movie. It is ALWAYS subjective.

If the viewer was looking for something with deep meaning and a thought-provoking script and they get Deuce Bigelow, then no, to them the movie was not good.

If they were looking for corny humor and some no-thought-required entertainment, then it might be considered good (depends on if it matches their sense of humor).

I think MOST people could agree that a movie that they would at least consider moderately 'good' would be one with a decent not to predictable plot, some humor, some drama, and decent (ie not so bad it's distracting) acting, sound & picture.

After that, if you want 'good' films (on par with so-called 'classic' books) - look to the independents. But please don't inflict those 'good' movies on me unless they can also entertain.

McDonalds

[freeweed]

You don't walk into a restaurant, sit down at a dirty table and think "My God, the previous people to eat here were complete slobs!"

No, but a lot of people sure do give me dirty looks when I don't do McDonalds employees' jobs for them. And by people I mean fellow patrons, not the employees.

It's one thing to not throw human feces around in a restaurant, but if I wanted to clean up after myself I would have eaten at home, for a lot cheaper. Unfortunately, McDonalds et al have convinced the populace that it is OUR responsibility to clean up our tables, because they have oh-so convenient garbage cans on the way out. This attitude spills over into many other venues, I find.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Anubis350]

you're quite right, but it's not true of the independant theatres, only the big corporate ones. I have 2 theatres in easy walking distance from my house (and yes, I live in the city).

In the neighborhood we have a 12 theatre UA multiplex and a 2 theatre indie duplex. The UA is as bad as you say (probably worse, it's 10.00 for a ticket, drinks are as you say about 4-5 bucks, etc, people tend o be loud and obnoxious in the theatre, and there are tons of commercials etc before the movie).

The duplex is 6.00 for students and seniors to get in, 4.00 for kids under 12, and 7.50 for everyone else, has only slightly overpriced drinks (1.75) plus brownies, coffee, tea, etc. They only show one preview before the main movie and no ads. Also the people who go there tend to be quiter and more happy to watch the movie without annoying people. The tradeoff is a slightly smaller screen, but it's very much worth it. They usually show at any given time one indie film and one mainstream film.

If you find the monster multiplexes as irritating and overpriced as I do, go find the indie theatre nearest to your house and go there (and if you live in the city there's plenty of 'em).

Better things to do?

[jone_stone]

I can't help noticing that no one has brought up the possibility that people might be finding better things to do with their time. Are we so indoctrinated as to think that people will always consume passive media? For me, in most instances, I have better things to do with my time than to sit there and absorb what Hollywood tells me. I'm not saying everyone has to be the same way, but I find it more fulfilling most of the time to work on a personal project or hang out with friends than to watch a movie or TV show. I do still watch movies sometimes, but it's an out-of-the-ordinary thing for me.

So I put forth this suggestion: perhaps people are finding better things to do with their time?

(Kind of ironic, since I'm an animator, helping provide passive media for other people to consume)

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Anonymous Coward]

You know voice mail still works while the phone is off. Dumbass.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[yanos]

One thing that bugs me with this kind of argument:

Do you really have to eat and drink while watching a movie? Is it really hard to stop eating and drinking for about 2 freaking hours?

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[JustAnotherReader]

As good a vigilante you are by doing that, I always have a voice in the back of my head nagging me about the legal aspects of doing that.

And THAT is one of the big things wrong with society today. People can be rude, obnoxious, even dangerous, but if we do something about it or react in any way WE are the ones who go to jail.

Think about that, the girl can yack on her phone and flip off anyone who complains, but if we respond to that incredible rudeness then we get in trouble. Notice how the majority of the comments here stem from "I don't go because the level of rudeness is too high for me to ignore. Because of that I can't enjoy the movie experience." That says a lot about our society.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Daytona955i]

The closest (smaller) theater near me charges $9.50 per ticket. For me and the wife to go see a movie, that's $19. Some of the larger theaters around me are around $10 or $11 for one ticket. (I guess that's what I get for living so close to NYC)

Add to that the price of popcorn and a soda and you're right around $30 for two people. (I haven't been in a while so I don't know the price of soda and popcorn)

Let's compare that to the price of buying or renting a DVD. A quick trip to Amazon shows that they have over 50 DVDs that are as low as $6.99 and 200 as low as $9.99. Ok, so for about the price of *ONE* movie ticket, I can have my choice of about 250 DVDs from amazon that I now own. Ok, so you say those are probably crap movies, you can pre order star wars episode III for $15.98, less than it would cost me and the wife to go out to see it. In fact they have a page that lists all the Summer 2005 box office hits and they are all about the same, or less, as it would be for the two of us to go see it in the theater. In fact, looking around, most of their DVDs are about the same or less to BUY the movie.

So I can spend a lot of money to go sit in an uncomfortable seat, deal with a sticky floor, those teenagers talking throughout the whole movie just so I can see it on "the big screen" or I can wait a few months for it to come out on DVD and watch it in the privacy of my own home, with as many of my friends as I want for about the same price? Oh wait, I also have the option of renting it for like $5...

I already have a decent audio setup with just as good if not better sound than the theaters (and I can sit on the subwoofer if I want), the only thing really missing is a big screen. Of course for about $1000 I can get a decent one which would pay for itself relatively quickly if you went to the theater relatively often.

Say you rented movies for $5 instead of spending about $20 for two people that would work out to about 67 movies and you've paid for it. That's not counting the gas (which we'll call a wash because you'd have to drive to the theater and drive to the movie rental place... unless you have netflix but I'm not getting into that) as well as the food. If you tend to get popcorn and soda a lot, it'll pay for itself sooner.

Plus if you have a nice enough setup, you could convince your friends to rent the movies and watch it on your system.

I think the biggest thing hurting them (besides the crappy movies they put out now) is the quicker turnaround time to rentals. It used to take a while for a movie to go from screen to VCR and a lot of people went in the theaters because otherwise it was going to be a while. Now there's very little time between theaters and DVD releases. (In fact, sometimes it's still in the 2nd or 3rd run theaters when it's released on DVD)

The only advantage of going to the theater, for me, is the big screen... For teenagers, it's still a chance to get out of the house.... Which is why there's usually a lot of them there and they can be very annoying.

Ah, whatever, I'm done ranting now.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[drakaan]

Why stop there, though?

Kids are smart...why not let them drink a beer, have sex with adults, drive cars, and get jobs at McDonald's?

Yes, a movie's purpose is to get a reaction from its audience. That doesn't mean that all movies are geared towards an audience of all ages. I like to watch Natural Born Killers every once in a while. That doesn't mean I'm going to tell my 6-year old "hey, come watch this movie with daddy!".

It's not a positive thing to expose a child *on purpose* to things that negative. Sure, I can explain to her that it's fantasy, and that it's a movie, and that Juliette Lewis didn't *really* just kill the man that was giving her oral sex, but why would I want to put either of us into a situation where I had to? I wouldn't, it's called "parenting".

Kids always try to stretch the limits of what they're allowed to see and do. Parents always try to reign the kids in and keep them from doing things that might cause them pain. It's the same today as it was in 2005 B.C.

Saying that "As long as you explain to the child the differences between real and fake, there should be no reason you will need to censor them from violence in media." is like saying "As long as you tell a child what the controls on a car do, there's no reason not to let them drive". It's overly-simplistic, and it ignores the reality that is child-rearing.

Not just movies but all media

[BluedemonX]

In the 1970s movies took risks. Girls were possessed (I mean the Exorcist, get your minds out of the gutter), taxi drivers shot pimps through the head, the Godfather made an offer you couldn't refuse.

Nowadays the best the studios can offer is either to try and show how much money they spent on computer effects, or to retread EXACTLY the same tread as before (I want a GUARANTEED hit - so do Basic Instinct, but call it something else and change up the faces and names) or to mine the culture for something that they feel will guarantee a hit (e.g. Dukes of Hazzard).

There are people out there with novel ideas and creative voices, but the theatres would rather NOT take some risks and have a mega hit and two modest flops - they want three movies that make OK money that they can try and HYPE into hits.

Same as music - "what category can we put this in?" - can we have another Kanye West please. For Christ's sake, nothing that doesn't sound like everything else we've ever done.

The first thing the studios need to do is diversify rather than amalgamate. They then need to go back to finding interesting new stories, and hiring new and inventive people to tell them. However, the chances of that happening are about the same as the chances of Rush Limbaugh admitting he's wrong.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[jjjpinkojjj]

No offense, but when the movie's over, you're still in Utah.

Re:DVDs should be released immediately

[voorko02]

I think the problem with DVD rentals is that you miss out on the experience of being able to talk to other people about the movie. People may claim that waiting for something to come out on DVD means that you'll watch more good films and avoid being swayed by marketing hype. Which it totally true, but at the same time its much tougher to talk to other people about films you watch on DVD. unless you watched the movie with them.

Maybe its just me, but I enjoy talking about a movie after I see it. However I only really want to do it for a couple days after I see the movie. If my friend comes up to me tomorrow telling me how he saw The Matrix the other day, I'd say great but I wouldn't engage in any kind of real conversation with him about the film. Not like I would have had he seen it when I did in the theaters a couple years ago.

Look I watch almost all of my movies on Netflix and they are rarely of the summer blockbuster variety, but I do miss the aspect of feeling like a part of a larger community. A recent preview for "40 year old virgin" confirms I'm not the only person who feels the same way. The crux of the ad was, see the movie or you won't know all the funny lines people are going to be quoting for the next six months. Now, I hate it when people quote films. Quoting something that is funny DOES NOT make you funny, but hell if I don't hate not catching a movie reference.

Oh and "40 Year Old Virgin" is hilarious.

/. Formula for Hollywood

[hendersj]

Hollywood's current business plan:

1. Make crap movies
2. Charge excessively high prices for tickets
3. Charge excessively high prices for concessions
4. Fail to remove customers who ruin the experience for others
5. Call your prospective patrons criminals by blaming online piracy for the decline in sales
6. ????
7. Profit?

Hollywood needs to remember one thing about customers - if you piss them off, they will stop being your customers.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Dark_Lord_Prime]

"Sure, I can explain to her that it's fantasy, and that it's a movie, and that Juliette Lewis didn't *really* just kill the man that was giving her oral sex, but why would I want to put either of us into a situation where I had to? I wouldn't, it's called "parenting"."

No, it's called, "I'd prefer not to have to deal with something that I personally find very embarrassing." :P

"As long as you tell a child what the controls on a car do, there's no reason not to let them drive". It's overly-simplistic, and it ignores the reality that is child-rearing."

It also ignores the fact that you also have to teach them -how- to use those controls, not just tell them what they do and let them have at it.

"Kids always try to stretch the limits of what they're allowed to see and do. Parents always try to reign the kids in and keep them from doing things that might cause them pain. It's the same today as it was in 2005 B.C."

The best way to ensure that they "try to stretch the limits of what they're allowed to see and do" is to hide it from them/them from it and insist that it's "bad" or "evil", thereby turning it into a mystery that they are going to be bound and determined to solve, simply because that's how human minds work.

Nevermind that it's hypocritical to, essentially, say "Sex and cigarettes are bad. Don't do them. Now, go play while daddy smokes and watches some porn." ;)

If you put the "bad" thing up front and tell them about it, they'll see that, "Oh. What's the big deal about this?" and move on. Making it taboo only increases the attractiveness and alure of it.

And whatever happened to sophistication?

[Julian Morrison]

It's wierd how clubs never seemed to forget the "class" thing even as cinemas went completely grunge-egalitarian. Especially, they never forgot that policing the customers gets you a better kind of customer, and you can charge a premium for that. Nobody would be surprised to see a nightclub that charged big money and required formal evening dress. Your jaw would likely drop if the cinema did that - but why?

Supposedly, the primary value proposition of modern cinema above home DVD is the "atmosphere".

Surely one of these idiots must have thought, if we're selling atmosphere, better go out of our way to be sure we have some? Industrial boxy buildings and bright-casual uniforms on gum-chewing slouched staff make for a poor attempt at sophisticated glamour.

I remember when I was a kid, folks used to dress up for the cinema, and the staff used to be smart, and the theater itself was as glitzy as could be done with gilt paint, coloured foil and cheap velvet.

When did they forget?

Marriage is Obsolete

[GreenSwirl]

Who needs a 'partner'?

Women do, that's who. They are programmed to trap someone who will stay with them and help raise their kids. Men, on the other hand, are programmed to disseminate their genes in the widest possible manner. Both strategies support human survival in their own way.

But now we live longer and healthier than we were meant to. Women are bearing children, on average, much later in life. And men can keep siring into their 70's and beyond. The counteracting agendas of the genders used to balance out, but this recent development of longer lifespans results in couples whose needs diverge as they get older.

Thus, as a 41-year-old husband and father, I am currently separated and dating a much younger girl. And I'm pretty happy about that.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[hackwrench]

This goes to the one important thing I learned in High School Theater class: "Don't deny, justify."

Lessee-- what's wrong with movie theaters?...

[Kazoo the Clown]

Besides the obvious that have aready been mentioned multiple times, there is no end to the list of "what's wrong" with movie theaters...

Number one on my list, is they have not kept up with the increase in the DIVERSITY of TASTE of the viewing public. They target a couple of relatively narrow categories, those which they appear to believe cover significant market segments (and probably do, but there's a lot more of them now than there used to be), to the exclusion of all others. I look up what's playing in my neighborhood, and find at lest 150 screens to go sit in front of within a reasonable distance, but find that all 150 screens are showing the same 12 movies, virtually none of which I'm interested in seeing. So while in fact I do have 150 screens to choose from, I only have 12 movies to choose from. It wouldn't matter to me if I see "Skeleton Key" in theater A or theater B or theater C or theater D, all within close distance, if I wanted to see "Skeleton Key" at all! But they're trying to amortize their ad budgets, preferring "blockbusters" to diversity. Get a clue guys, the "blockbuster" concept is a complete anachronism in an extremely diverse marketplace. The music industry could stand to figure that out as well and get over the "good old days" of the supergroup.

Frankly, I prefer OLD movies, and actually WOULD like to see them on a big screen. There's one theater near me that will do that, a neat REALLY OLD classic theater but that has one of the worst sound systems I've ever heard-- the reverberations in the theater make the experience awful. Plus, whoever picks their selection of old movies needs their head examined-- they really suck. It needs someone who knows the old films well enough to actually seek out those known to be particularly enhanced by the large screen projection and be able to get them! Unfortunately, it's probably getting harder and harder if not impossible to get good prints of old films on demand, they have to find some restoration society or something because they aren't likely to get much help with that from the studios...

Last time I saw an ad on TV for a movie I actually wanted to see, I looked for it in my neighborhood. Come to find out it was only playing one place anywhere in a radius of about 150 miles, and that was 50 miles away-- yet they spent big bucks advertising the movie to get me there. I'm sorry, those big ad bucks weren't enough to get me to drive 50 miles to see it, despite the fact that I was willing to go somewhat out of my way for that particular movie-- they just made it TOO HARD (the movie was Howl's Moving Castle, BTW). Consequently, it's obvious that the movie index sites are only useful for people who want to go to the theater to see ANY movie, not to see a particular movie. They have to face it, there's just fewer and fewer people willing to do that. And if they can't find a way to fix it, film theaters may just go the way of the drive-ins. At least in drive-ins you had SOME privacy, and wouldn't have to listen to cell phones and the like if drive-ins still exited. The big problem with drive-ins was they couldn't keep you from bringing in your own snacks (oh, that's not a problem for ME, it's only a problem for THEM. That's customer-centric for you).

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Doctor O]

+5, Insightful? Geezus. Mods obviously don't have kids.

It depends on their age. I imagine the OT has rather young kids you can't leave unattended. Of course your teenagers can stay at home without a sitter, but my 3 and 1 year old certainly can't.

Wait a second...

[foreverdisillusioned]

So let me get this straight:

You're frustrated that DVDs come out so much later after the hype because the hype is your only reason for wanting to see the movie in the first place... and your ideal solution to this is for them to release the DVD immediately, in the middle of the "marketing fog", so that you will be compelled to go out and spend money on something that you would admitedly NOT have bought of your own free (unmarketed) will.

Wow. Just wow.

Maybe I'm alone in this, but the PRIMARY reason why buy or go to see a movie is because I think that it may be good, not because the man in the magic glowing box tells me to go watch them. The fact that you actually desire the man in the glowy box to tell you what to do because you can't do it without him is nothing short of terrifying.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[Idealius]

You say 'let' like a child is completely incapable of making a decision for themselves and will do everything 'bad' in the universe out of pure curiousity without a parent to guide them.

Let's take a second and realize that Parents are for the most part "older children" with more experience and a few variances in different chemicals running through them.

People try to generalize an open format as 'bad' for a certain age group, it makes me laugh.

There are limits, but these are decided by the parent, not by the media.

To accentuate my argument we will take a look at your horrendous examples.

"why not let them drink a beer, have sex with adults, drive cars, and get jobs at McDonald's?"

Outside of driving & consesual sex between two adults to produce a child, what, exactly is good about ANY of that?

Same with Natural Born Killers, cut it out of your movie diet it's probably not doing you any good anyway.

What's the underlying reason you can responsibly watch that movie and be entertained? Isn't it CAUSED by the experiences you have thinking of and dealing with today's harsh world of sex & violence.

Maybe you're familiar with a rape victim, or knew someone who was murdered?

Maybe you took a lot of psych classes in college and enjoy the philisophical debates of good and evil. Are the psych classes required for your child to responsibly pursue enjoying media that may provide insight into this philisophical subject?

I don't know why you like that movie, maybe you had a bad home life, and maybe there is no one reason you like it. -- All I know is obviously through your actions YOU feel justified in watching it, so why should you have to hide it from your child?

Do you regret that you have this hypothetical experiences your child lacks that allows you to responsibly watch 'nasty' movies? If so #1 wtf are you doing watching the movie, still and #2 Actually DO something productive about it (like boycotting those types of movies) instead of trying to delay the inevitable realities your child will undoubtedly be exposed to because in the end you won't have any power over their life anyway.

And that's the key, eventually they will leave and not have a parent, so it's best to keep things simple. "This is good. This is bad. This is how I treat you. Hopefully it is good and not confusing so you have the opportunity to treat your children likewise."

Think about how parenting and teaching works. Confusion doesn't help at all. You will confuse your child by not giving them a chance to understand why you like to watch "bad" movies and not share with them.

Typically the things that are considered 'bad' for people, are bad for them regardless of their ages.

And driving cars, please, they're just too small in most cases. I've seen many a child drive a vehicle just as well as the average driving population does. (Bikes, tractors, 4x4's, small cars & trucks, etc.)

One might argue that a child doesn't have the experience to responsibly drive a car even if a car physically constructed for someone of small stature was built and children could use it legally on the open road. However, if it was standard children age 12 could legally drive I believe that they would make up for the learning curve easily. Whether or not that would increase the fatality-rate (by scale) of the road is all conjecture. You could say OMG YES IT WOULD, but then I could point to the fact that a 12 year old is a faster leaner than a 16 year old.

Children are just less experienced adults, this is remedied by giving them the chance to experience. If you take enjoyment out of watching Natural Born Killers and hold a double standard to your child then you're basically telling them, "Yes, I enjoy this, but you can't because I want you to be better than me and not take enjoyment from watching Juliette Lewis kill someone after oral."

CONFUSION STIFLES LEARNING!

And to dot my 'i's and cross my 't's:

Your sex example sucks, too.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[dave1212]

no place is sacred,eh? Cray you a river?
If you need this information right away, then don't go to the theatre. Wait for your calls and crap somewhere else, where people haven't PAID to avoid this sort of thing. You know 'vibrate' makes noise too.
  Your values are screwed up, and I hope that for your own sake you take a look at them before someone straightens you out in a way you probably won't like.

Fucking children.

Re:It isn't just movies

[M0riarty]

Simple, it's just filesharing.

I'm on a cracking team, and I can tell you this much, most of what I reverse-engineer is complete junk (Norton A/V 2005, anyone?). The problem is, there is a high demand for it. The majority of the internet thinks Norton is the best a/v around, just like a large number of people think top 40 music is good.

Set me off? I'll tell you what sets me off, you go

[TiggertheMad]

If a little cell phone light sets you off, man, lay off the caffeine, eh?

BZZT. Wrong. How about you take your phone into the lobby and check it there. If the call you are waiting for is that important, you can walk 30 goddam feet into the lobby to check it. Its called common courtesy. Theaters are dark for a reason, and light can be just as distracting as noise.

Re:Movie Theaters are Obsolete

[farble1670]

Most managers take this stuff very seriously ...

you are probably right, but it's not our job to report this stuff. they should monitor their theaters. if i reach the point where i am upset enough to walk out of the theater, take 5 minutes finding the manager, and make a complaint, the evening is ruined for me. i am not a type A personality. i don't enjoy confrontation during my "recreational" activities, and i especially don't like paying for the privilige. get one of their minimum wage workers to rotate through the theaters and spend 5-10 minutes in each of them looking for problems. duh.

where i live, the average theater has people talking, an occasional cell phone ringing, people actually talking on cell phones sometimes, and if you're lucky, some group of thugs making high decibel jokes throughout the movie. i can't say i'll never go to another theater, but i haven't been for 6 months, and i have no plans or desire to do so.