The Chumbawamba Factor 239
putko writes "Chris Dahlen has written about BigChampagne, a company that looks at peer-to-peer downloading to provide marketing data to record companies. By analyzing what folks are downloading, when and where, BigChampagne can tell the record companies what people like, what other records they like and other information critical to deciding how to allocate marketing dollars. As mentioned in the article, record companies started using this information (secretly) even as they were trying to stop filesharing via the courts."
Legal Action (Score:3, Insightful)
Textbook example (Score:3, Insightful)
That explains so much (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmmmmm...
Charts (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Charts (Score:5, Insightful)
Let us weep together for youth.
Let me just say that... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll also say, why in the hell is the music business so fired up to make nothing but hit records instead of providing people with access to music with artistic integrity? Yeah, they should make money, there's no doubt about that. They are, after all a businesses and they exist to make money. But, don't they also exist to give artists a voice? Whatever happened to that part of the equation? When did they discard the idea that popular music can also be truly artistic expressions of a musician's mind, body and soul? I don't even have a problem with there being people who make million dollar incomes when they do nothing more than pencil pushing in the whole cycle of musicial distribution. But, the musicians who actually create the stuff should be making at least as much as they do because without the artist, the business is nothing.
Re:Textbook example (Score:4, Insightful)
Market Data (Score:2, Insightful)
On top of tracking who swaps what from what location, BigChampagne also searches the libraries of everyone who's online.
So it looks like whether you're paying for it or getting it for free somebody is using this data for their profit. This is why I don't, for example, use those supermarket discount cards. The data they collect from me is more valuable to them then the money I save.Stop profiting or stop lobbying (Score:3, Insightful)
The fact that they can profit from p2p while hassle their customers, to me, seems to be a perversion of the law and shouldn't be allowed.
Re:Eat Your Cake (Score:1, Insightful)
And why would this have any effect on what a judge would say? Judges apply law, they don't review businesses' profit margins and force companies to shift legal strategies to maximize their profits. What planet are you from?
Don't forget the recent past.... (Score:1, Insightful)
I have educated my children specifically *against* that behaviour and hold up the RIAA and "artists" as example of a bad deal, done in poor faith (the chumbawumba factor) And that they should keep their money for more tangible rewards.
Re:Let me just say that... (Score:3, Insightful)
wrong correlation (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Let me just say that... In response... (Score:5, Insightful)
You happen to have answerd part of your own question. They are, after all a businesses and they exist to make money.
Regarding artist integrity. When was the last time you heard an artist really singing about artistic impression and look at the lyrics of any popular song and hear or feel any of that? The new hip-hop artist of the day for example. All they sing/rap about is how many Hoes they can or have slept with and how much money or "bling" they have. Most of the music out there is about the same things. Why? Because that's the kind of music people are interested in.
musicians who actually create the stuff should be making at least as much as they do because without the artist, the business is nothing.Have you seen how many of the artists out there write their own songs? Not too many. Artists are the expendable part of the business. You've got song writters and producers that are doing all the behind the scenes work. The artist themselves are just the pretty face that has to go on tour and loose their "private life" to people like the you and me that want to know everything about them. I'd like you to find a songwritter (mostly nameless and faceless to the general public) who has done songs with popular artists that donesn't have any money. If Brittney Spears decided never to return to music, they'd just find another pretty face to sing all the same songs.
Ahh, my rant is now over. That's my 2 cents for what it's worth.
Re:Have their cake and eat it too! (Score:4, Insightful)
Believe it or not, we do know what that particular cliche means; the long-winded explanation using some TV program wasn't necessary. In fact, that particular proverb was recorded in 1546 by John Heywood.
You can tell that our culture is dying because historical phrases that everybody used to know are now seen as original and brilliant bits of television writing. Sigh.
Re:Eat Your Cake (Score:5, Insightful)
Because they are gaining stats in something that's not acceptable in the United States? Would a judge not side with the police getting stats on drug users to see where they congregate and what kinds of drugs they prefer?
It's the same thing to them.
To us, yes, it's shady and yet another reason you shouldn't support them or the music they promote.
P2P as an immoral behaviour that corrupts society, because the fruit from the tree has poisoned their self-professed purity.
They can claim whatever the fuck they want to claim as long as no one stops them. Unfortuantely no one will stop them because they have started to win the publics' (and the courts') opinion that this is "wrong".
Sad but true. Listen to free music by bands that don't need the RIAA.
Re:Textbook example (Score:5, Insightful)
If the RIAA was really serious about getting rid of all p2p, they wouldn't have ANY part in it. You can't fight to abolish something while getting kickbacks on it (at least not ethically, but that doesn't seem to stop too many people lately).</toungeincheeck>
How accurate is this? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Eat Your Cake (Score:4, Insightful)
The RIAA is the one selling, so I guess they're the drug dealers with the bought police in your analogy?
Re:Eat Your Cake (Score:3, Insightful)
First off, for those of you who have no idea, or only a vague memory; "Chumbawamba are a band from the UK who use their music to promote anarchist ideas."
And, for those of you who are interested in why Chumbawamba might actually be mentioned when it comes to P2P music downloading: Chumbawamba were a one hit wonder. Their one song came out, people ran out and bought the album, and then got pissed off that they spent so much money on one song they liked and a bunch of crap they didn't. When people have the choice to buy/download just the songs they like, they'll do so. They won't get 15 Chumbawamba songs if all but one of them are crap.
Re:Textbook example (Score:3, Insightful)
He's right though. p2p is an issue. But it's one that's kind of more symptomatic of a larger problem.
The other news on this same
Manufacturers aren't listening to *either* artists or listeners. Which really sucks.
what about b-sides, bootlegs, and back catalogs? (Score:4, Insightful)
If BigChampagne's is so rock-solid, why aren't the labels rushing to get b-sides, unreleased covers, bootlegs, and out-of-print back catalog material up on iTunes and other commercial services? For me, that was the greatest thing about the Napster of old...material that wasn't commercially available for one reason or another. There's a goldmine to be had on that stuff and even Steve Jobs has mentioned how much material the labels are sitting on and haven't done anything with yet complain about declining sales and blaming piracy for their woes.
Re:Eat Your Cake (Score:2, Insightful)
Your analogy is flawed.
The police and RIAA both have different profit incentives.
The RIAA is charged by record labels to not only enforce copyrights but also get info about music, as well as help distribute said music.
Police are essentially a protective force that is charted by citizens through social contract theory.
One is interested in your safety, the other your wallet.
Re:How RIAA Thinks (Score:3, Insightful)
"Can you imagine 10 people a day, 10 people a day, walkin' in, downloadin' a bar of Wesley Willis, and walkin' out? People might think it was a movement. And that's what it is, the Wesley Willis Download Anti-R-I-A-A movement, and all you have to do to join is download a few bars when it comes around agin on the P2P.
With Feelin'.
Re:I get knocked down (Score:3, Insightful)
But they'll keep trying to defend a dying distribution mechanism until they ultimately succumb because they were distributing crap.
Here's what I don't get. The overhead costs associated with net distribution are much less than CD media distribution. This is why I don't understand the pricing scheme for things like iTunes and Yahoo Music. True track cost should be ten to twenty cents, not seventy-nine cents or ninety-nine cents.
Then there is the elephant in the room. Apple crows about it's iPod but to be honest - who is going to pay thousands of dollars to fill their iPod. Nobody, that's who. Much of the music on iPods is more than likely illegaly downloaded tracks. Recent rulings would come down and say that Apple enables copyright violation. But curiously nobody touches them.
Lets not mention iTunes and the MyTunes Redux application. Nothing like snatching music while it's being streamed to you.
My point is that copyright violations have been occuring on a regular basis for the past 30 or so years. I can't count how many albums I recorded to tape when I was a kid, each time violating the sanctity of the RIAA. I'm pretty sure those of us that came in at the beginning of the digital revolution did much the same. But now the RIAA sees fit to persecute. Note the choice of the word.
Instead of cultivating a potential market that makes their lives easier, they'd prefer to litigate. It is high time to put the lawyers against the wall.
Re:Let me just say that... (Score:2, Insightful)
Centralized playlists mean there is no competition between radio stations any more. Take away even the role of the DJ as more than a programmed talking head, and there's no chance for anything else to get sent down the pipes.
Radio always was, and still is, the way most music gets sent out to most people, it's just that the landscape of radio has changed.
Re:I get knocked down (Score:3, Insightful)
Physical distribution systems offer the labels a million ways to skim off the top. I think they fear that they won't be able to bring their scams into the 21st century if they discontinue physical media.
Re:I get knocked down (Score:4, Insightful)
I didn't. I filled it up with MP3s/AACs ripped from my legally-purchased CDs, with a smattering that I've purchased from iTMS.