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Spider-Man 3 Villains: Sandman & Venom 412

Posted by CmdrTaco
from the wondered-how-long-it-would-take-to-haul-out-venom dept.
datemenatalie writes "As posted on ComingSoon.net, "Kirsten Dunst confirmed rumors to Zap2it that Thomas Haden Church will play Sandman and Topher Grace is Venom in director Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 3." As written, ""We have really great people though as the villains in this film, Thomas Haden Church and Topher Grace -- Venom and Sandman," said Dunst, who plays Mary Jane Watson in the Spidey films. "Maybe I wasn't supposed to say that," she added before reversing her claim. "It's the other way around. You're right," she conceded to a journalist." Spider-Man 3 is set for release on May 4, 2007."
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Spider-Man 3 Villains: Sandman & Venom

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  • Venom (Score:5, Funny)

    by kevin_conaway (585204) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:04AM (#13658378) Homepage
    How can we have a villain who looks like he just hit puberty?

    "I'd take over the city right now...but I have to stop at CVS for Clearasil first"
  • Bad news (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bman08 (239376) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:04AM (#13658381)
    It's when they start putting multiple big names in villain roles that these superhero franchises usually start to go straight to hell. Everybody wants screen time even at the expense of comprehensible storyline. Case in point, Batman and Robin, the worst movie ever made.
    • Re:Bad news (Score:3, Funny)

      by jhutch2000 (801707)
      Batman and Robin was bad, true...

      But nothing compares to the sheer mind-boggling awfulness that was Showgirls.

      A movie so bad that naked boobs couldn't even save it!
      • Re:Bad news (Score:3, Funny)

        by slaker (53818)
        How can Showgirls be bad? No movie with that many boobies and thong-clad women in it can truly be bad!

        Hating Showgirls is like hating electricity or modern sanitation!
      • Re:Bad news (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Coryoth (254751)
        Look, there are bad films, and then there are Bad Films. As crap as Showgirls may be it has features like semi-professional camera work, audible dialog, a plot that is not only coherent, but can actually be discerned just from watching the film, and a complete lack of 5 minute long nausea inducing strobe light scenes. Until you have seen the true horror of something like The Roller Blade Seven [imdb.com] you don't really know bad films. Try reading some of the user reviews to get some idea - but be aware, until you've
    • Re:Bad news (Score:3, Informative)

      by roman_mir (125474)
      No, The Avengers [imdb.com] is the worst movie ever made. (but your point is still valid.)

    • Re:Bad news (Score:5, Insightful)

      by WormholeFiend (674934) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:23AM (#13658526)
      I guess the X-men movies are the exception?
      • No, they sucked ass as well.
      • X-Men is a team of superheroes, you need a team of supervillians for them to fight.
        • That's why X-men works.. they are a team and they generally work AS a team, as do the villians.

          In conventional superhero films with multiple villians, the villians are usually seperate subplots, and the hero's just have sidekicks who get a subplot in their relation to the hero.
      • Re:Bad news (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Daniel_Staal (609844) <DStaal@usa.net> on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:42AM (#13658701)
        A supervillian can have superpowered henchmen. Henchmen are unlimited. (Provided they are used as background characters.)

        Actually, I think the orgnial point is a specific case of a general rule: A movie can have no more than two-three main characters, before it starts to suck. This is in essence based on the fact that it takes some screen time to devlop a character, and there is only so much time in a movie. So, any time you have more than two or three main characters you end up underdeveloping one or all of them. If you underdevelop one, they are no longer a main character. If you underdevelop all, your movie just became trash.
        • ". . . there is only so much time in a movie."

          Yes, but you can always do like they just did in Battlestar Galaga (sic) and throw up a "to be continued."

          Actually, they sort of did that in Matrix. Never mind.
          • They didn't just throw up a "to be continued" in BSG (Galactica, btw) [and "sic" is only used when you are directly quoting another source and are absolving yourself of a grammatical error that they made]. This mid-season finale has been planned for months and well publicized to fans of the show.

            While we don't get new episodes until January, I'm glad they the cast and crew got the break they deserved (they are back at work now filming the next episodes).
    • Re:Bad news (Score:2, Insightful)

      by hahiss (696716)
      Please, you guys aren't even trying hard! Have you only seen movies from the last 10 years?

      Try ``Manos" or ``Daddy-O" or ``Beyond the Valley of the Dolls" or ``Assault of the Killer Bimbos" or the sequels to ``Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" or ``Reefer Madness" (which is boring as all get out) or hell, even Star Wars, Episode I. . . .

      The usual candidate auteur of Cinema Meirde is Ed Wood, but I think his films have an incompetent genius to them. (Few agree, though.) You might try ``Plan 9 From Outer Spac
      • Re:Bad news (Score:2, Interesting)

        by mshaslam (688800)
        For a truly obscure and a truly mind numbingly bad movie try The Irish Gringo [imdb.com]. It redefines the genre of bad movies. Until you have seen this movie, you really have no idea how awful movies can be. I'm not kidding. This one makes The Avengers look like The Godfather II.
      • I have to admit "Manos: The Hands of Fate" is almost unwatchable even when watching it through MST3K...even though that remains my favorite MST3K of all time.
      • Or my favorite, Pinata: Survival Island [imdb.com] (aka demon island) about a bunch of college kids on an underwear scavenger hunt on an island where they awaken a posessed PINATA (the worst CG pinata you'll ever see at that) who runs around the island killing people like he's f'ing rambo.

        I've never seen anything worse.. Saw it at a screening in OC, then found the DVD in the $5 bin at WalMart so I -had- to get it and put my friends through it too. A movie so bad Jamie Pressley couldn't save it.
    • It's when they start putting multiple big names in villain roles that these superhero franchises usually start to go straight to hell.

      The "multiple big names" in question consist of a guy who's probably still best known from a T.V. show in the early nineties and some other guy from a TV show. They've both turned in great performances in other roles, but they're hardly "big names."

      Batman and Robin had Uma Thurman and Arnold Schwartzeneggar. I really don't think Sam Raimi's going down that path at all.

    • When did Thomas Haden Church become a big name?
    • The second Batman movie -- Batman Returns -- had Danny De Vito as Penguin and Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman, and it wasn't too bad, in my opinion. (Even if you didn't like it, you'll have to admit it was much, much better than Batman and Robin.)
    • Re:Bad news (Score:4, Interesting)

      by moviepig.com (745183) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:39AM (#13658666) Homepage
      ...We have really great people though...

      Moreover, even a Spidey-flick optimist has be curious about what Dunst meant by "though"...

    • Re:Bad news (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ReverendLoki (663861) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:55AM (#13658817)
      It's when they start putting multiple big names in villain roles that these superhero franchises usually start to go straight to hell.

      I like to think that's why they cast the likes of Thomas Hayden Church and Topher Grace in these roles. Though both are well-recognized, neither really has the amount of star power where they could do any real damage. I mean, have you seen the typse of roles Thomas Hayden Church has taken lately? George of the Jungle 2? Rolling Kansas? And Topher Grace is still most recognized as the guy from That 70's Show.

      Not that I fully agree with the casting, but I do think they are pulling from the right echelon of actors - underappreciated veterans for whom a role like this can be a huge step for. I certainly wouldn't cast anyone along the likes of Schwarzeneger (too lazy to look up the spelling) or Jim Carey or Tommy Lee Jones.

  • by TripMaster Monkey (862126) * on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:05AM (#13658385)

    Old news...Digg [digg.com]reported this two and a half weeks ago [digg.com]. Also, in addition to Venom and Sandman, the Hobgoblin will be played by James Franco (see Freeze Dried Movies [freezedriedmovies.com] for the scoop).

    James Franco as Hobgoblin looks to be a good call, and Thomas Hayden Church is a lock for Sandman, but Topher Grace as Venom??? Seriously...I think Grace is a decent enough actor, but can he pull off Eddie Brock? Personally, I think he would have been better cast as Cletus Kasady (aka Carnage [alaph.com]).
    • "but Topher Grace as Venom?"

      Seriously, that's as lame as having a goofy nerd like Toby McGuire as Spider-... er, damn.
      • "but Topher Grace as Venom?"

        Seriously, that's as lame as having a goofy nerd like Toby McGuire as Spider-... er, damn.


        Spider-Man was a goofy nerd from the very start. Have you been paying attention?
    • That last link was great. Carnages weighs in at 190 pounds

      Venom [alaph.com] Is supposed to weigh 260 pounds there's no way in hell Topher can fit that role.

      A Picture of Venom [alaph.com] compared to a Picture of Topher [imdb.com]

      • Re:Pic Comparison (Score:4, Interesting)

        by milkman_matt (593465) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @01:09PM (#13659523)
        Granted while I couldn't agree more that there's no way Topher could possibly match the physique of Venom, I think they were trying to match him with Eddie Brock [fortunecity.com] more than Venom.. They seem to go for a more character based story in these films than a "Throw these guys in costumes and have 'em brawl" approach. And I can see Topher looking like Eddie, but he seriously needs to pack on a few lbs before he's a bad mofo like Venom. That was Venom's appeal, just a big massive badass. Then again, they could always throw someone else in the Venom suit.. I'm on your side on this one, I think he's way too small for the role, but Raimi seems to know what he's doing, Green Goblin, Doc Oc, Hobgoblin, Spidey, all very well cast, even when you initially thought "what the ...!?"
    • Seriously...I think Grace is a decent enough actor, but can he pull off Eddie Brock?

      I had the same initial reaction but remember, there are two Eddie Brocks. There's weightlifter psycho Brock (Amazing Spiderman) and there's childhood friend Brock (Ultimate Spiderman).

      As much as I love the former, the Ultimate Spiderman series has proved that good, careful storytelling can really elevate the comic book medium above it's peers. The Ultimate Venom storyline seems to me to a lot more fertile ground from whi

      • It would also tie in nicely given that one of the Ultimate Spiderman storylines had Sam Raimi using footage of Spiderman while filming his movie which used Toby MaGuire and Kirtsen Dunst. Obviously, Raimi is just lifting the storylines from real-life events. They're not movies; they're documentaries!
    • by Anonymous Coward
      The story line for venom/carnage in the Ultimate Spiderman comic is far easier an explanation that doesn't require any space travel. In that version the costume was an experiment in heliopathic technology that wraps the body in a special fluid that then diagnoses the disease and cures it. Spiderman was curious about the experiment after talking to Eddy Brock whos father was best freinds with Peters father, who was head of the project. He went to the lab that was once his fathers and pokes around. He find
  • Geez.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JoeLinux (20366) <joelinux@gm a i l . c om> on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:05AM (#13658386) Homepage
    Topher Grace as Venom? He's so small/weak. The only thing that would be worse is if they cast his clone Tobey Mcquire as Spiderma....oh....wait.

    Seriously, I can see Topher being absolutely evil in the role of Venom, with just enough humor to be scary.

    I never understood what Sandman's story was...anyone care to enlighten me?
      • Major WTF for me.

        I thought they meant Neil Gaiman's Sandman.

        This Sandman looks stupid.
      • Thanks for the info - for some reason I when reading the article I couldn't get an image of the DC Sandman out of my head. No, not the Neil Gaiman creation, the other one, with the sand gun thing.
    • Re:Geez.... (Score:5, Funny)

      by wheany (460585) <wheany+sd@iki.fi> on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:09AM (#13658421) Homepage Journal
      He was bitten by radioactive sand. Although since genetic engineering is the current boogeyman in Spiderman, I suspect in the movie he will be bitten by genetically engineered sand.
    • Re:Geez.... (Score:3, Informative)

      by slaker (53818)
      Sandman - the regular one - got his powers due by being irradiated while he was resting on a beach, giving him the power to turn his body into sand. He's basically a standard Spiderman thug/villian, other than that. He has tried to go straight in the past.

      The Ultimate Universe version has a less silly origin as a failed attempt at making a super soldier by OsCorp. That version seems more dangerous as well.
    • Re:Geez.... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by GodHead (101109) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:14AM (#13658454) Homepage
      Spiderman = Peter Parker = timid geeky nerd-type.

      Venom = Eddie Brock = Psycho ex journalist, built like a linebacker, competition-level power-lifter.

      Venom wasn't just some evil version of spiderman, he was better than spiderman - stronger, faster, able to beat his spidey-sense.

      Worst. Casting. Ever.
      • i agree
      • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:26AM (#13658554)
        Venom was the creation of the costume/alien that Spider-Man picked up during the Secret Wars which, likely, never happens in Raimi's Spider-Man universe. So keeping faithful to the origin in casting is useless when the origin is going to be altered.
      • Venom = Eddie Brock = Psycho ex journalist, built like a linebacker, competition-level power-lifter.

        Venom wasn't just some evil version of spiderman, he was better than spiderman - stronger, faster, able to beat his spidey-sense.
        That's only if you're talking about the classic character. In the Ultimate series, Eddie was about Peter's age, son of a colleague of Peter's father. And really, I think that's going to be closer to how we're going to get this because we don't really have enough time to explain "

      • Hell, not only that, but in the first movie, there was an actor already cast as Eddie Brock, he was seen momentarily in the Daily Bugle's newsroom...
    • Topher Grace as Venom? He's so small/weak. The only thing that would be worse is if they cast his clone Tobey Mcquire as Spiderma....oh....wait.

      Seriously, I can see Topher being absolutely evil in the role of Venom, with just enough humor to be scary.

      WTF????! OK, I was excited to hear about Thomas Hayden Church... he's a dead ringer for Eddy Brock. I think they must have it mixed up. Of course, since the Venom character was a combination of Brock and an alien 'suit' that wants to kill Spidey for rejectin

  • by wo1verin3 (473094) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:05AM (#13658388) Homepage
    Sony pictures has hired a band of rogue ninjas to kill Kirsten Dunst.
  • by Ikn (712788)
    Or maybe, she -was-supposed to say it. Hey, free publicity!
  • by wheany (460585) <wheany+sd@iki.fi> on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:06AM (#13658395) Homepage Journal
    Set renderfarm to kill.
  • Why not Venom and Carnage? At least they kinda go together.
  • Both villans are great, but I don't see how they're going to cram them both into the same movie. They're not exactly compatable. Plus they're both great villians (better than the comic book Doc. Oct at least), and I have no doubt either one could carry a movie alone.
  • Red (Score:5, Funny)

    by cool_number_9 (825274) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:09AM (#13658412)
    With Topher Grace as Venom, I'd expect Kurtwood Smith to show up and tell Venom to behave or he'll be wearing Red's foot up his ass.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:09AM (#13658424)
    Thomas Haden Church and Topher Grace -- Venom and Sandman," said Dunst, who plays Mary Jane Watson in the Spidey films. "Maybe I wasn't supposed to say that," she added before reversing her claim.

    If you read carefully, you will realize that what she really means is that she will be playing Sandman, Thomas Haden will be playing Venom, and Topher will be playing Mary Jane. I might just pay for this one as they will finally have a sexy Mary Jane. Dunst just never did it for me.
  • Mary Jane Watson (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:11AM (#13658436)
    Dunst, who plays Mary Jane Watson in the Spidey films

    It should say: Dunst who plays Kirsten Dunst in every film that she has ever done.

    She's perky but that's not acting.

  • And with that... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:15AM (#13658472)
    ....they kill the entire franchise.

    Stuffing 2 or 3 villians in with no time to develop the characters, especially the Venom character is the dumbest idea ever. Didn't they watch the Batman movies after the first one?
    • Stuffing 2 or 3 villians in with no time to develop the characters, especially the Venom character is the dumbest idea ever. Didn't they watch the Batman movies after the first one?

      Yeah, you mean like Batman Begins? The most recent one? The one that not only chronicled Batman's origin, but also included villains Ra's Al Ghul, Scarecrow, and, to a lesser extent, mob boss Carmine Falcone, and ended up being the best Batman movie yet?

      More villains does not mean worse movie. Sloppy/cheesy Burton and espec

    • by Valiss (463641) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:59AM (#13658842) Homepage
      Didn't they watch the Batman movies after the first one?


      Did anyone?
  • In the comics, Venom is composed of an alien symbiotic suit and the person, Eddie Brock. The Venom persona does look very muscular, but I think the alien symbiote would have a great part in giving Venom his menacing form.

    My theory is that in the movie, Topher Grace will get "beefed-up" by the alien symbiotic suit.

    • Brock was already beefy, but I'm sure they'll take artistic license in the movie. I'm curious how they get the alien symbiote in there in the first place. I seriously doubt they're sending spidey into space, giving him the suit, giving him time to become aware that it's alive, get rid of it, and it finding Brock and trying to kill Spidey.

      I bet it's another Oscorp 'innovation'.
  • by Errandboy of Doom (917941) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:18AM (#13658493) Homepage
    And it's official: Bruce Campbell is playing Spiderman [themovieblog.com].
    • Seriously though, I love seeing how Bruce Campbell gets put into the movies. I nearly died when I saw the first movie. I think it is great not only because I like some of the stuff Campbell has done, but also that Raimi still manages to get him into his movies.
      • I think it is great not only because I like some of the stuff Campbell has done, but also that Raimi still manages to get him into his movies.

        I like the fact that you say that as though it's really really hard. "Raimi still manages to get [Campbell] into his movies." Now, do you think it would be hard because Campbell is so busy that he would normally refuse a part in a huge blockbuster?

        Or do you mean to imply that it'd be hard to slip him past the security guards who've been ordered to keep him off th

    • in spidey 2, campbell said he would be the one to defeat spidey, and in a way he did. So one would expect there to be a little bit of truth to his claim now that he will be Spider-man. Maybe posing as a fake spidey for a bugle hackjob or something.
  • by otis wildflower (4889) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:30AM (#13658584) Homepage
    Does anyone remember the Spiderman vs. Seabiscuit fiasco?

    Topher Grace was (strongly rumored) to replace Tobey Maguire for Spiderman 2, due to injuries Maguire suffered during the shooting of Seabiscuit.

    There were a few refs to it on That '70s Show as well.

    (hey, I don't do unemployment that well :p)
  • Now that my symbiate knows the cast, he'll definitely make me go see it!
  • Kirsten Dunst (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Conspiracy_Of_Doves (236787) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:31AM (#13658597)
    Anyone ever get the feeling that Kirsten doesn't really "get" Spider Man or comic books in general?

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php?date=2004-07- 16 [penny-arcade.com]
  • Kirsten Dunst confirmed rumors to Zap2it that Thomas Haden Church will play Sandman and Topher Grace is Venom

    That should read, "Kirsten Dunst was told by the movie's publicity firm to accidentally confirm..."

    Folks- the only thing actors do independently is get arrested for DUI or drug posession. Everything else, they're told to do by their publicist or the publicist for the movie/studio.

  • by Sandman1971 (516283) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:49AM (#13658761) Homepage Journal
    In Ultimate Spiderman, Venom was a symbiote suit built by Peter Parker and Eddie Brock's fathers as a cancer fighting suit (no I'm not making this up). Both Peter and Eddie are smart in this universe. Unlike the traditional Marvel universe where Brock was a beefed up photographer. Sounds like they might be using the origin from Ultimate Spiderman instead. In this one, Brock is just as small as Parker (but doesn't dress as a science nerd, but as a grunge rocker). That would sorta fit in casting Topher Grace for the role.
  • by wickedj (652189) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @11:59AM (#13658843) Homepage
    If we look at Spidey 2, we saw hints at the new Goblin and Lizard Man but they didn't have big roles in the movie. Most of the conflict came from Doc Oc. Perhaps in 3, Sandman will be the big opponent while Venom might show up as an introductory role. Venom is a hugely popular villain/hero in the Marvel universe with a complete and interesting back story. It would be nigh impossible to have both villains in the movie without subtracting from the plot/quality. If I were Raimi, I would set it up that Spidey uses the symbiote against Sandman, realizes the suit is bad, gets rid of it (with or without F4's help) and we end with Eddie Brock finding it, setting up the next film (and a possible spinoff).

    I'm actually surprised that there has been no mention of the new Goblin or Lizard Man especially after being set up by Spidey 2. In any case, just because it's said that Topher Grace is in the movie, it doesn't mean he will have a huge role (yet).
    • This is actually a really good idea. I think in one of the animated shows they just had the symbiote come back on a deep-space rocket (maybe something sent to investigate a comet or asteroid, I can't remember). Since JJJ's son is an astronaut, they could easily link in that character as well in a minor way.

      Rather than the F4 angle, they could use Doc Connor to help Spidey remove the symbiant in SM3. During that scene they could drop a hint about Connor's research on lizard regeneration, keeping the threa

  • Can you sell more Exciting Flexible Collectible Action Figures, T-shirts, Sippy-Cups, Left-handed Staplers, and Nintendo Dongles(TM) if you have more villains?

    Sure! But no one will want to see the frickin' movie. The plot will have holes. Motivations will be murky. No one will care about the characters.

    Just tell a damn good story and the money will take care of itself. Leave the over-the-top merchandizing and box office flops to Disney. They're the masters of that.

  • Sam Raimi's yellow 1973 Oldsmobile.

    For those of you who don't know, the car appears in pretty much everything Raimi does. It was in the Evil Dead movies (though a "stunt double" was used for some parts). In Spiderman 1, Peter's grandfather drove it when he dropped him off for the library / wrestling event. I haven't seen Spiderman 2, so I don't know where it appears in that.
  • by tbcpp (797625) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:28PM (#13659105)
    First of all, let me say that Spiderman has never totally followed the comics. So any diversion here is nothing new. But hey, who cares? Spiderman 1 & 2 are still my top two favorite movies. This comming from a guy who never read the comics. If they director can make it look beleiveable and have a story, it will rock. That's what the other movies had. A great storyline.

    As far as the Sandman thing goes, aleph.com says that spiderman and sandman were allies. What if they make it so that you have a Spiderman & Sandman vs. Hobgoblin & Venom?

    Another thing I always wanted to see in these movies is have a villian come out of nowhere, trash the city a bit, and then have Spiderman come in and beat the snot out of him in 5 minutes flat. And have all that as the opening of the movie. Why do the battles have to last for 10 minutes with Spiderman almost dieing each time. If he's smart at all, he should have way more experience at the whole superpower thing by now.

    Anyway, that's my two cents.
  • Are the Spiderman films the "new" Batman? Are all of the villians to be played by celebrities of the moment?

    With that said, i like Thomas Haden Church. Just dont want to see him as the sandman... cause its not going to be beleivable.

  • I was under the impression thus far that they were taking more from the Ultimate line of books for the majority of licensing/movie deals anymore then from the original 'universe'. In Ultimate, Eddie isn't a huge lumbering guy....he's smaller like Peter (not as small, but still).
  • by MrOuija_AK (918277) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:55PM (#13659366)
    For those of you that think Topher Grace is poor casting as Venom, you're right IF they use the normal Marvel Universe (Universe 616) version of Venom. However the Venom from Ultimate Spiderman would work great for Topher Grace. A childhood friend of Peter's who is going to college and continuing the research began by his and Peter's parents. The research project ends up becoming the Venom suit after interaction with Peter. This version of Venom is a college science nerd and more of an anti-Spiderman then the alien symbiote of the normal Marvel Universe. Considering Sam Raimi's voiced dislike of the Venom character I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to go with this alternate interpretation.

    I'll think this is even more likely if the Venom from the new Ultimate Spiderman game turns out to have the same Ultimate storyline.

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