HBO Attacking BitTorrent 844
DIY News writes "HBO is actively poisoning the BitTorrent downloads of the new show Rome. In addition to an older tactic of offering bogus downloads that never complete, HBO is now obstructing the downloads offered by other people. HBO runs peers that tell the tracker they have all the chunks of the show, but then send garbage data when a downloader requests a chunk. While the bogus peers can be detected, it will take much longer to download shows."
Thankfully (Score:5, Interesting)
TiVo (Score:5, Interesting)
My Infringement Notice (Score:5, Interesting)
It might be worth noting that I was using Azureus [sf.net] and running PeerGuardian [sf.net] at the time of the download.
I'm running Azureus on a different computer now.
Bittornado (Score:4, Interesting)
prefs -> check [Kick/ban clients that send you bad data]
After at least one failed hash check, the client won't eat any more poison, so to speak.
Poison IP's (Score:1, Interesting)
Yes I do have HBO legally, and I am pissed about this.
Obstructing? (Score:4, Interesting)
But here, we have HBO obstructing the downloading of their copyrighted material. HBO is obstructing copyright violation. Would you say that a lock obstructs breaking and entering? Or that self defense obstructs assault? Perhaps good server administration obstructs the stealing of private data. Of course you wouldn't say that. It sounds silly. So why is HBO obstructing downloads?
HBO's Actions (Score:3, Interesting)
heh (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:My Infringement Notice (Score:1, Interesting)
Old news for those that dare to share (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm curious as to how they can chase people for sharing a file devoid of any content or copyrighted materials like that.
Anyway, it's really not a problem for people that use blocklists [bluetack.co.uk] and blocklist managing tools such as PeerGuardian [sourceforge.net].
Now here's a note for the HBO readers. I will pay for your content. I'll buy DVD's of this series and all the other quality TV shows I can only currently acquire 'illegally'. I will also be quite happy to see a little watermark advertisement in place of corporate branding in the corner of the screen. That's some premium ad space you're wasting there - you know this quality material will spread like a virus. And on top of that it's an additional incentive to buy the non-watermarked content when you make it available. Come on, please do get with the programme. Believe it or not we actually want companies that make quality entertainment to succeed in their efforts almost as much as the company executives themselves. The old distribution model is dead. Believe it or not, and scary though it may be, this is actually good news for all of us.
Corrupted torrents? (Score:2, Interesting)
How about a new business model? I'd pay $1 per show to download a real file of the quality of the shows I've seen on the net. You know, the DivX files. Sure in their minds it's worth a $99 box set, but lets be honest... how many millions of people would plunk $1 to download error free, hassle free an episode? Maybe tolerate 2 ads before the video plays. No DRM.
It would then not be worth the trouble to even bother with torrents.
TVoverIP is coming.
They are giving away DVD's of Rome (Score:3, Interesting)
I did however watch the sixth episode "regularly" on HBO, so I guess their tactic gained them a viewer. Then I immediately downloaded that episode so I could have a complete collection. Next Sunday, I'll probably be on my couch watching the seventh episode as it airs. And then I'll download it, too.
I'm not sure what the moral of this post is. Perhaps that "pirates" and legitimate customers are more closely intertwined than the simplistic among us would like to admit.
Re:Is this is some way a bad thing? (Score:2, Interesting)
Clearly, you don't understand the problem and you don't understand the technology.
Re:TiVo (Score:5, Interesting)
Forget to catch a repeat? They push it onto the On-Demand service for subscribers who pay for said service
So after that multitude of opportunities to see a given episode of Rome, who are the majority of people attempting to download the episode? Of course, you'll have some people who forgot to set their VCRs or only have one out of the seven HBO channels available, or who's recording got cut off if they didn't pad it correctly.
But the obvious answer: The majority of downloaders will be people who want the content without paying for it. Hence, people who do not have on-demand access to the content and therefore have no fair use rights to it.
HBO and BitTorrent (Score:2, Interesting)
I use Torrents to download legal things like linux isos and video clips and copylefted music like mine.
I also use it to download the occasional missed episode that I can't tivo.
how exactly does the license work for stuff you send out over the free air waves work?
"we're beaming this into outerspace, but you can't download it from the internet because we could theoretically charge you for it. We don't want to do that because we can't quite figure out a business model that involves what people want."
CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, UPN, WB, HBO, SHO: offer for download for a nominal fee, $1.50 or so, HD episodes with DD sound of your shows on your website in a reasonable format (not Real Media) with decent high quality compression, and I guarantee people will use it. I would consider downloading a complete season for $1.50 an episode.
This makes me think of my situation (Score:1, Interesting)
Here's the rub. We don't have cable. We canceled it last year because we were out of town so much and just never turned it back on.
I downloaded all of season 1 and we watched it. We just bought the Season 1 box set. We also bought the soundtrack cd. We're doing the same thing with Season 2 and waiting for the box set.
I can't justify spending 60 bucks a month on cable to watch one show that I like. I'm begging Sci-Fi Network to create a way for me to pay to download the episodes. I would even sit through the commercials if they were a part of the download. Just gotta be able to play it on Linux since that's what my media center is.
If I were a television programmer I would rail against the cable companies for all they're worth to break my channel into a ala cart package. It might create more veiwers. If I'm a cable company, it's revenue that I wouldn't be seeing anyway.
I heard about Carnivale on slashdot because Ronald Moore wrote several episodes. I downloaded the first season to see what it was all about. I loved the show (even if it was a bit slow at times). I bought the first season DVD and download season 2 episodes when I find out that HBO has cancelled the damn show!
Let me say this. I'm not going to pay for cable. It's a waste of money for 3 channels that we want (sci-fi, BBC and A&E - my wife loves Poirot).
And while I'm posting this anon, it's not worth tracking me down with lawyers. I don't have the shows I've downloaded anymore. Once we watch an episode we delete it.
Re:azereus! (Score:4, Interesting)
Revenue Models (Score:2, Interesting)
Let's do some math:
Now lets see, HBO has at least four decent series, and I'll let you do the math. I think $4/download for each hour long series they do would compensate them more than enough.
It's time media companies adapt and grow up.
- Nolan Eakins
doesnt piss me off (Score:1, Interesting)
you reallly should subscribe to HBO, its not that expensive and they have awesome programming. Entourage, movies, rome, comeback, sopranos (re-runs). HBO rocks.. i would pay for the programming any day.
sadly, the only people suffering here because of this "poisioning" is the people tha subscribe, and dont have a DVR to record what they missed. sometimes even if you buy it it justifies downloading.
Re:My Infringement Notice (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Thankfully (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Thankfully (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:TiVo (Score:2, Interesting)
You'd think it would be fair use (since it certainly doesn't deprive anyone of revenue), but remember the my.mp3.com case. my.mp3.com was sending music to people who had proved they physically had the CD. (e.g. my.mp3.com would tell the client "Insert your Master of Puppets CD and read this random sector and upload it" and if the client uploaded the correct data, then my.mp3.com would be convinced the user had that CD, so they would be willing to send Damage_Inc.mp3 to the client.)
A judge decided that what my.mp3.com was doing, was copyright infringement.
vigilante justice (Score:4, Interesting)
That's called "vigilante justice", and there are laws against it. Maybe HBO's particular denial of service attack on BitTorrent is both harmless and specific in this case, but the next attempt at vigilante justice may end up shutting down the OpenSuSE distribution as a side effect.
HBO's actions amount to computer hacking and denial of service, and they should be treated as such by the legal system. On the other hand, if HBO wishes to claim copyright infringement, they should bring legal cases; nobody other than a court of law can determine whether copyright infringement has taken place.
Re:That's Funny (Score:1, Interesting)
(May not be real gold. Actual colour will depend on variables including, but not limited to, user stylesheet and monitor calibration. Void where prohibited by law.)
In fact, I bet you even know why "whets" is the correct word, rather than "wets". It's just a pity nobody else does...
So, how about letting people pay? (Score:2, Interesting)
Well then HBO for gods sake please, pretty please, *let me pay you guys*!!
HBO rules, I would gladly pay for watching The Wire, Bill Maher and Penn and teller`s bullshit...(showtime) But as it stands my European IP isn`t even good enough to get on the showtime website [sho.com]! Let alone paying for HBO. I can get the sopranos, but only two seasons late... and I haven't seen a six feet under for a couple of seasons now.
Ofcourse living Europe I can:
Now ofcourse I can get all emotional about this but there is a cool thing about using azureus. It has room for crazy plugins that do stupid useless things like displaying the flags of the countries that the client I share with come from. The thing is based on geolocation (Like I assume the showtime site is).... So it is even less scientific than a slashdot poll. The funny thing is that most of these clients apear to be from European countries, especially the ones where people tend to know a bit of english. Say Denmark, the UK, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Poland and Germany.
It makes perfect sense that HBO original series would appeal more to European audiences than American shows that lack at least two things, acting, and seven English words that Europeans still know but American apparently stopped using... wait, thats eight things, but still.
Re:That's Funny (Score:3, Interesting)
If you dont want to buy it because they wont give you a free sample, that is your choice. But that doesnt legitamize people who want to download, against the will of HBO. Their marketing descisions are not the same as your entitlment.
The GP, KFG, was not indicating that downloading was appropriate. I believe that the point was that HBO's decision was DUMB. I'll repeat it, too: HBO and all the other companies attempting to control downloads of material that can be legally recorded have the marketing knowledge of insects. They are DUMB, STUPID, MORONIC, and other all-caps words.
This doesn't mean that I think that downloading is appropriate.
Maybe you expect anyone who attacks copyright holders' choices to favor direct violation of the law. I'm not sure. On the other hand, you definitely have no clue what copyright and patent law are for. They encourage people to provide their artistic, intellectual, and technical work to the public. Ownership of such work is vested in the law of people, and is not a natural condition. Publishing companies have used these laws to profit from works created by many people, but that position is not written in stone, or even in law. It is merely an extension of the copyright laws and control of technology that have formed in the last few hundred years.
Hash collisions (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:The low bastards! (Score:3, Interesting)
They are probably thinking "Premium cable was a lot easier when all you had to worry about was Captain Midnight [signaltonoise.net]."
Re:It really is copyright infringement (Score:2, Interesting)
So if I want to watch it a few months early, surely thats not hurting anyone.
I don't, because I haven't actually heard a good review of the show yet.
Why is this not DoS? (Score:2, Interesting)
This is vigilantism. I am not even a BT user, but how is this different from a DoS attack on a web server or any other portion of machines connected? From the descriptions of the fragments, and slow downloads, it seems disruptive. No matter if you have an issue with someone's activities, a DoS attack is still not a valid way to tread.
But what do I know..
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:That's Funny (Score:3, Interesting)
Which in the agregate is a block of cheese.
That doesn't address the fact that the block of cheese is never given away for free. Your analogy still does not hold.
A clip is an ad, not a sample.
That's a funny distinction you make, since advertising's entire purpose is to whet a customer's appetite for a product or service in exactly the same manner you claim a "sample" is supposed to. You're splitting hairs because you didn't get a big enough sample. But hey, that doesn't mean you can't be accommodated. As others have mentioned, HBO has been sending out free DVDs of the entire first episode.
Now, you will argue that having a direct download is more convenient, and that may be. But the fact remains that you are confusing "getting a sample" with "taking the whole block of cheese" -- it has nothing to do with the issue at hand (i.e., HBO poisoning the BitTorrent downloads of those who try to take the whole block of cheese without paying).
The only way your analogy works is if you equate downloading the entire series via bittorrent with sampling the show before purchase. You know that's not true, and as such, your entire argument is intellectually dishonest.
HBO's method rocks (Score:1, Interesting)
DTV used to ECM people, which effected (hopefully) only those who stole programming, much cooler than their later strategy of suing everyone, inclusing people who never even owned a dish. Don't get me started on the extortion aspects of their settlement offers..
Maybe we should take HBOs sugestion while they're playing nice..