Top Advisory Panel Warns Erosion of U.S. Science 954
fbg111 writes "From the NYT: A panel of experts convened by the National Academies, the nation's leading science advisory group, called yesterday for an urgent and wide-ranging effort to strengthen scientific competitiveness. The 20-member panel, reporting at the request of a bipartisan group in Congress, said that without such an effort the United States 'could soon lose its privileged position.' It cited many examples of emerging scientific and industrial power abroad and listed 20 steps the United States should take to maintain its global lead."
Yeah, right (Score:3, Informative)
> more rigorously prove
One cannot "prove" in science. One can only disprove a falsifiable hypothesis.
> they probably never would have even bothered to address irreducible complexity issues
Biology has and continues to progress quite well without religious fundamentalists trying to legislate their way into the classrooms.
> creationists hadn't mainstreamed discussion of evolution
Yes, and I imagine what the world would be like if the members of the Flat Earth society weren't constantly screaming at Rand McNally. Participating in legitimate scientific discussion is good. Cluttering the public with rhetorical tricks is a waste of everyone's time.
> cartel of biologists would be analyzing the issue
Besides the loaded language (and misuse) of "cartel," this is ridiculous. There is an amazing amount of dissent in good scientific discussion. But, you are correct; no competent scientist is considering the impact of fairies, trolls, or biblical floods on their experiments.
> Imagine if the Bible said something about quantum physics (yeah, yeah, I know you can
> claim it does, but bear with me here). Wouldn't that speed up the demise of bad theories in
> that field?
I'd rather imagine how much more good science could be done if religious fundamentalists weren't wasting everyone's time trying to legislate their nonsense.
If you didn't intend to troll, learn about science and the scientific method! You will be enlightened and possibly intrigued about how the process works.
Re:Who cares (Score:3, Informative)
Other countries can compete for now on the basis of lower labor costs, and lower cost of environmental and other compliance. You can afford alot of waste and mismanagement in that stage, but when you're industrialized and you have an OSHA, and an EPA, and your labor unions are knocking at the door, suddenly you can't throw out a day's worth of bad production because that amounts to your profit. Other countries have gone from economic powerhouses that were going to own the US, to total stagnation in the span of months.
I'm not advocating anyone becoming a specialist in the science of business as an answer to this... the true answer is that your profession has to be competitive. And being a Scientist in the US is not competitive.
Re:I am surprised (Score:3, Informative)
You have completely misunderstood the term 'Origin of Species'. No one is suggesting that evolution explains the origin of Life! After you have life (through divine creation or big fat spark hitting primordial soup), then evolution kicks-in. Evolution explains how the world's different species evolved from early life.
Re:I really don't think thats it (Score:2, Informative)
This is really not true.. the rest... well, whatever, but this is just patently false. As a matter of fact, Intelligent Design is an excellent attempt to reconcile a christian belief in creationism *with* the scientific evidence for evolution. The problem with ID stems from the fact that it's being taught as science, which it is not.
Re:I am surprised (Score:2, Informative)
Evolution has nothing to do with the origins of life. That's the theory of abiogenesis.
Surprising you've never heard of "Texas" (Score:3, Informative)
Sorry, but you're both wrong and naive here. There are quite a few Wingnut-Americans on local and state school boards, and school boards have a strong influence on schools. The state of Texas has done a lot to water down science and health education by refusing to buy 'unacceptable' textbooks [nsta.org], and Texas is such a large market that most publishers don't bother making a second edition that leaves the science in. It's not just religion, business [columbiamissourian.com] is also getting into the act [tlpj.org].
Definitely agree that many parents are falling down in their responsibility to prepare their kids for schools and to raise their kids in an environment that values education.
(I boggle at the other post who feels that "teacher's unions" are interchangable with "parents".)
Law of Supply and Demand at work (Score:3, Informative)
This is being driven by labor costs. Technical workers in China and India work for a fraction of the pay of US technical workers. So the work is done there. Less manufacturing work and engineering work in the US means fewer technical workers are needed in the US.
During the recession of the early 90s, US companies laid off employees by the thousands ever other week. During the past 5 years, US companies having been laying of employees by the tens of thousands. This means there are lots of unemployed and underemployed technical people. Prospective students see this and reconsider their field of study. Technical curricula are hard and required lots of work. The reward for obtaining an engineering degree has been dramatically reduced.
Anything done to artificially stimulate the graduation rates of engineers will only add to the numbers of unemployed and underemployed engineers. Just because you graduate more engineers does not mean companies will spring up to employ them.
Re:not true in other countries (Score:3, Informative)
Re:literal imterpretation of the Bible (Score:3, Informative)
Gen 5:5 (NASB) (using earlier, pre-KJV, documents)
God called the light day, and the darkness He called night And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
Gen 5:5 (KJV) (translated from newer documents)
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Hard to understand, eh? Is an evening an eon to? How about morning?
are they really left? (Score:3, Informative)
The left has prevented any nuclear plants from being built in over 20 years. The left has prevented any oil refineries in 30 years. The left has prevented any new highway construction in California of 30 years. Sounds like some sort of power, though I suppose you could argue it's not political.
Is this because they, the people opposing these, are leftists or because they are concerned about the environment? And as far as nuclear power plants, if you get rid of all government subsidies and laws protecting them then nuclear power plants wouldn't be built or wouldn't run, ie if the free market were used nuclear power wouldn't be around. All the laws and subsidies are socialistic.
FalconRe:I really don't think thats it (Score:2, Informative)
What? Guess two of the freeways I will drive home today don't exist. 105 Freeway (completed in 1998) and 210 extension (completed in 2002). Both of those were built within the last 10 years.
Didn't you say something about falsifying data?
Legal outsourcing -- especially to India (Score:3, Informative)
A pharmacist in India could fill your prescription in Poughkippsie. A layer of telecom for reading the prescription, and running the machine that picks the pills off the shelf and bottles and labels them before dropping them into the delivery slot.
Most health plan authorization decisions are being made now by some low-paid worker with some English language competence, with a rulebook and no medical training, just comparing the diagnosis number on the examination report with the health plan's list of lowest-cost average-person treatments.
I know a doctor who, working in an emergency room, gets chewed out all the time by the ER staffing company manager (there are only a few, it's all outsourced) -- because he insists on seeing that the lab or X-ray reports he ordered come back and are properly interpreted before he sends people home.
His manager looks better with a much faster turnaround time and more bodies moved through. And if the treatment was wrong, maybe they'll come back, and that's a whole 'nother round of billings.
See:
American Academy of Emergency Medicine
http://www.aaem.org/
The Rape of Emergency Medicine. PDF, online and Palm (PDB) versions.
The outsourced ER management company routinely does triage on the people in the ER waiting room -- according to how many pricey examinations their plan will pay for -- and sees them first. While on the other end of the phone line is that health plan worker trying to approve the fewest tests. It's a race to maximize mediocrity.
Re:Ending tenure to help science? You are an idiot (Score:2, Informative)